Do you guys like Ergo Proxy? Personally, I love it, and it's probably one of my favorites. Of course, it's the type of show where I understand people disliking it, but I'm still interested to hear what people think about it. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAXrRWLKzko
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
Nice blog, m99The show was OK
>>143114191
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
>>143114263
Probably the worstI mean bestpart if the show
>>143114288
Thank you nice dubs
>>143114344
You seem like a nice person.but your taste is shit
>>143114263
The sound track is so fucking comfy
>>143114191
I own this on DVD. I've only watched it through once so far. Pretty confusing to be honest. I'm willing to watch it again to understand it though. I liked it over all. Imagery in the final episode seemed somewhat heavy handed but I really didn't mind it. I thought the literalman behind the curtain momentwas pretty cool.
>>143114714
>episodes
>>143114714
>pretty confusing
4chan is an 18+ site, bud
>>143114797
I'm 21. I didn't watch it all in one sitting so it didn't really sink in well. I had it paused in the middle of episodes for days. I'm just going to have to rewatch it.
Why are people trying to shill this piece of shit lately?
Are Hollywood studios testing the waters to see if they can greenlight yet another live-action bootleg?
>>143114714
How the fuck can this show be confusing? I just can't comprehend people's stupidity. Can you really be this dumb to not understand what you're seeing in the show?
Personally I never had any problems with understanding what was going on, and yet I only watched this show once and I'm sharing OPs opinion for it being one of my personal favourites.
>>143114869
>STOP DISCUSSSING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
>>143114614
I love it too!
>>143114714
It's a rewarding watch. It might take a couple of watches for it to really sink in though. In my opinion anyway
>>143114869
No meaning to shill, I just wanted to discuss it friend. What do you think of it?
>>143114918
Hey I'm not asking them to stop, I'm asking them to explain themselves.
>>143114925
that it's a piece of shit, like many other turn-of-the-millenium "intellectual" anime.
>>143114338
not OP but I like evanescence more than I'm comfortable admitting too, and yes I also liked Ergo Proxy.
>>143114897
Yeah, I caught it pretty quick as well, but I have good friends who really didn't get it, so I can see where he's coming from. It's nice to see all the varied opinions on the show here!
>>143114963
Why you need a reason to discuss anime?
>>143114897
I'm not very experienced in the themes this show was trying to express. I just don't understand all the symbolism. I'm going to try to deconstruct it on an episode-by-episode basis some time in the future.
>>143115008
Not saying you do, just that I want to hear it.
Why are you being so defensive?
>>143114963
So this genre is really not for you then, eh? I can see that. I understand a lot of people seeing it as pretentious, because I suppose it is. But I am a sucker for the type of show that makes me think.
Ergo Proxy minus Proxy would be better
>>143115070
>Why are you being so defensive
>that it's a piece of shit, like many other turn-of-the-millenium "intellectual" anime.
>Why are people trying to shill this piece of shit lately?
>>143115053
And that is fine friend, take your time with it. Rushing something and ending up with a shallow understanding is not quite as nice as really taking it in
>>143115084
To be fair the show sometimes got its head too deep in its own ass with the philosophy and 2deep scenes
Didn't some of the themes from Eureka 7 show up in this a little? That one episode with the library of empty books practically gave me deja vu.
>>143115186
That's a very fair assessment. I personally never found that to be the case, but I have some friends who found every scene to be that type of trite Jayden Smith philosophy bullshit!
>>143115302
Yeah, I found that too! A little bit of retreading old ground I guess
>>143115186
Dai Sato sure loves is abstractness.
>>143115114
Hey come on don't act like you're being offended.
>>143115379
I think he generally has ideas that not too many directors end up tackling... unique vision for sure
>>143114714
Here's the major plot twist of EP: there is nothing to understand
One of my all time favorites.
Probably one of the all time most pretentious anime out there, but the substance is there in the cast and world building to carry it's more esoteric moments.
It also probably solidified my love of wide open endings. Endings that leave you with an implication of greater conflicts to come.
>>143114614
Centzontotochin best track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znx2BwdFLcg
>>143115689
What about the "raisin dextra" or whatever?
>>143115829
>One of my all time favorites.
Doesn't even come close to
>Haibane
>Eva
>Lain
>Texhnolyze
>Utena
So where do those rank for you?
yes, i absolutely love all the pseudo-intellectual shit that doesn't really make sense when you sit down and analyze but at the time of viewing leaves you with a feeling that there's something you're not quite getting, a little detail or metaphor that another rewatch will reveal and it will all make sense then. i'm a suckers for shows like these.
>>143114191
Every episode beyond the wall was garbage with the exception of 08, 011 and 09. The show could have been basically Aeon Flux but with cybernetic abominations scheming around but ended up being a long pretentious drag of a show, especially since 2/3rds of it is the cast just angsting on the ship.
>>143114963
>that it's a piece of shit, like many other turn-of-the-millenium "intellectual" anime.
Come on don't be a snob.
It's not good or ever reaches 'intellectual' capacity but is still better than 99% of most of your garbage cancerous Moeblob-Shows. We need more shows like Ergo Proxy before we can ever have some anime equivalent of Kafka or something.
>>143115969
This.
Don't over-think it, or accept it as smart. Just enjoy that it's trying to make itself feel smart and does so with a good nice, rich atmosphere to it. It's like the perfect show to watch and say "Wow this feels so intelligent and deep" even if it's the most pretentious thing ever.
>>143116073
That's the exact way I feel. It's feels like something I should mock for taking itself so seriously, but yet I still love it
>>143115971
I disagree with you there friend. But that's subjectivity, right?
>>143114191
I love it, but I'm also the type of person who listens to pretentious post-rock, so I'm not the best metric
Raul Creed was FUCKING based.
>>143115532
Yeah. I really like when he does his trippy abstract stuff like Mushroom Samba from Cowboy Bebop.
>>143116204
He just wanted to live happily with his robot daughteru ;_;
>>143116202
>post-rock
Based
>>143116154
I would have rated the show a lot more if it actually had a plot, instead of being founded entirely on a really complicated backstory that apparently is more important than whatever is going on in the anime itself and negates any point to watching it.
Once you watch the Gameshow episode you have all the spoilers and know anything there is to know about the show. Why watch to the end? The last ep literally ends on a cliffhanger/Anti-Ending.
I feel like it'd be a lot better as an OVA but stretching it out into a whole 24 ep series ended up with far too much padding and one-off episodes. The show as a whole is too disjointed and breaks off too soon from everything it sets up in the first few episodes inside the Dome.
>>143115922
Haven't actually seen any of those in their entirety. When I tried to watch Lain it just ended up putting me to sleep. Eva I've seen a bit of, didn't particularly like it though.
Guess this makes me a pleb.
All I remember about it was the main character turning into an android monster and the final boss was the main character android monster God.
There are no other shows with a similar atmosphere.
Why?
>technolyze
If I could see what I was watching I'd consider it a show
>>143116484
Have you seen Casshern Sins? I doesn't try to be too deep I don't think but it does have a clear message about what it means to be alive and what value life has if one is immortal.
I always say this about EP
It either needed to be filed down to 12 episodes or be given a 12 episode extension. They did everything right but the plot.
>>143116587
How does Casshern Sins have any real meaning? I watched it, it just seemed like a pretentious robot show with judo-christian symbolism and imagery. If the meaning was "Convert to Christ because Robot-loli jesus will save you but don't forget the devil will always come back" it's kinda of a crappy message.
>>143116484
>Haven't actually seen any of those in their entirety
>Eva I've seen a bit of
Well that settles that, doesn't it.
>makes me a pleb
No, a pleb would be one who fails to see the artistic merit of any of those. But you're just a retard, when you're unable to even sit through the epitome of what anime has to offer. You don't belong on /a/. Fuck off, Christ. I hope this is bait.
>>143114191
Well, I loved it enough to buy the dvd box when it was released so yes, I liked it.
While not the main point of the show, most episodes are full of references to art, philosophy and so on that are sometimes a bit hard to spot and I'm sure that I missed some of them but I loved it for those references.
The first few episodes were crap though.
>>143116744
>The first few episodes were crap though.
You meant they were the only good episodes.
>>143116744
This.
Don't watch for the plot. Watch for the references. And Re-L.
>>143116744
>>143116815
The first few episodes were the bait and switch, where the show was tricking you into thinking it was going to be anime-blade runner, when instead it was going to be esoteric wasteland adventures.
>>143116665
I didn't say it was deep. It does have meaning even if it isn't the most original. It's also a good atmospheric peace.
I thought it was all right. Wasn't as engaging as, say, Serial Experiments Lain or Boogiepop Phantom, but it was enjoyable watch. I don't remember too much of it though. I'll probably watch it again some time.
RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE RAISON D'ÊTRE
Fucking ruined the show for me
>>143117786
It just took you 60 posts and an hour, shitposter-kun
>>143117598
BTW the main message was "Life has value even if you are immortal." and "People who are immortal might as well be dead if they forget how to live."
>>143117818
I just got here. I wanted to know more about the AI, robots etc. but all I got was buzzwords/phrases like RAISON D'ÊTRE
>>143117922
It's almost as if Vincent finding his raison d'etre was the main focus of the show
Ergo Proxy was a wild and entertaining ride, quite similar in many regards to Texhnolyze, but crucially with the ability to feel human emotions other than crushing depression.
The episodes where the creators were just screwing around with the show were the best in my eyes: the one where they just mill around the ship, the Disney one, the Jeopardy episode, the episode where there's the duplicate--it's not the sort of thing shows try with a straight face anymore.
>>143117984
But here's the thing, just because you refer to an item/concept (that isn't unique to the fictional world) with a particular phrase or word the first time, it doesn't mean you have to use the exact god damn phrase for all eternity. Especially when the voice actors can't pronounce it.
Proxy was forgivable. The usage of raison d'être was totally unnecessary, excessive, and forced.
This sort of thing prevents a character from being more concise or verbose when referring to a specific thing, and also removes any chance of expressing thoughts/facts in an eloquent or natural manner.
They didn't need to force the language to define the show's "brand". There was so much else going on, they had nuanced characters, and so much atmosphere. But that dialogue at times...
>>143118110
I find it hilarious that the Jeopardy one is the exposition dump episode, where they explain all the background and world building, by having the host just blow through it in 15 seconds or less.
I'm still not sure what the fuck Shampoo Planet was even about though.
>>143118342
It was actually a pretty clever way to do exposition without resorting to a 20 minute unfodump
I think Dai Sato might be high when he writes some of his episodes.
>>143118342
It was all a Gnostic allegory in the end, covered by a veil of the thinnest gossamer. That said, I studied that shit and I still don't understand what properly went down.
>>143114263
That feel when you realize this is a Radiohead song.
>>143114191
Great first episode, everything goes down after it, it's a 6/10, I wouldn't watch it again but I don't regret to have watched it.
So much potential wasted.
Awesome opening though.
>>143118543
It isn't. The opening is Kiri by MONORAL. The ending is Paranoid Android by Radiohead.
>>143118178
It seems like a valid approach to me, if you compare it with similarly introspective works, or works of actual philosophy. There are perks to consistent terminology, especially when you're exploring abstract concepts. It's how we got phrases like "raison d'etre" in the first place.
That said, it does tend to steer a show towards the allegorical deep end, like with anything Ikuhara's ever produced. It works for him, but I agree that it in Ergo Proxy, it clashed with the tone at times.
>>143118543
Wrong, the ED is the one that was done by Radiohead
>>143114191
is it an edgy shonen like Tokyo Ghoul, or is it adult edgy? I've been meaning to try, but I thought DTB and TG were going to lean more toward adults like GiTS, then found out for myself the disappointment.
>>143118774
This is on the GitS side of things
>>143118774
It's definitely more adult-leaning than any shounen, but it's not that edgy. It's a lot like GitS:SAC, and less like the first GitS film.
>>143118774
Be warned that it does get abstract and disjointed. You'll have to really think to piece the story together.
Ergo Proxy is a mess. As someone who enjoys anime like Lain, Texhnolyze etc, I can say that it is legitimately pretentious i.e. making an outward show of being deep while in actuality having the depth of a shallow puddle.
See: RAISON D'ETRE and the incessant namedropping of existential philosophers.
Pretty to look at tho
>>143119015
I disagree. I think it is absolutely an exercise in symbolism, and culture. It's thoughts on technology rival that of lain IMObut yeah, they kind of dropped the ball on the philosopher stuff
>>143119015
As someone who enjoys all three, what gives Lain a pass on that count? They're all a bit full of themselves, which is part of the fun.
I can't tell if we're all being ironic today but since we've got constant Tokyo Ghoul threads I think I grew out of /a/
>>143119187
The difference is in the execution.
Characters in Lain develop organically and the backstory/twist is both cleverly executed and internally consistent with the preceding action.
Following a very strong start, pacing and characterization lose coherence in Ergo Proxy. The plot meanders aimlessly and from episode to episode the action becomes disconnected. The result of this is a hilarious lore dump and rushed finale.
References to existential philosophy are relevant only at surface level. Complex personages/theories are repeated endlessly without any bearing on the action taking place.
On a side note: Lain isn't perfect by any means; neither is Ergo Proxy terrible.
>>143119775
I feel like you're missing the points on characterization. Most characters end up a hell of a lot more developed then you'd see in lain (not to say that any compare to lain herself). In addition, dismissing the symbolism as surface level is an error in my opinion. You're seeing a changing pace as a lack of cohesion within the characters, and timed exposition as a lore dump.
Of course, that's just my opinion, and the whole thing is subjective, so none of it really matters
Post Re-l.
1/?
>>143120551
>>143120591
3/?, last was 2/?
>>143120623
4/?
>>143120657
5/?
Huh, that's all the Re-l I've got. Need more, apparently.
>>143120358
>In addition, dismissing the symbolism as surface level is an error in my opinion.
I would love to see a breakdown of the symbolism to back this up. I have a decent command of existential philosophy from college and can say with confidence that RAISON D'ETRE is without any justification other than French sounds 'intellectual' to a Japanese listener.
>and timed exposition as a lore dump
During the game-show episode, the host explains literally the entire plot, in a single extended monologue.
>>143116484
If you haven't watched all of Eva, then you need to giiiiiit out!
>>143120909
Keep in mind that this was all in my opinion. I don't have a superior college educated grasp on symbolism. English isn't even my first language, so please forgive any errors in my speech. In addition, some of these ideas are not my own, but a collection of some I have heard.
Ergo Proxy's symbolism is not so much the existential crises of lain, but in mythologies that it borrows from. You are probably familiar with gnosticism, and their embracing of the spiritual world. One of their beliefs is that the creator of the world is not a perfect creature. They think of this god as a powerful mistake. There is the idea that this flawed creator of course makes flawed creatures (humans). In turn, we flawed humans create flawed autoreivs.
Now, there's more. We are captive in our world. We are happy for the most part, as we are not aware that we our held captive, stuck in a meaningless cycle. However, we can sometimes catch a glimpse of 'truth', and this can shake us to our very core, and change our outlook. This theme is also heavily touched on in 'the matrix'. Proxies are almost a realization of this very truth.
I could write more, but I'm not sure if you are interested. Please, let me know what you think of these ideas, and if you want me to go further, because I have more to say. It is very difficult trying to express myself in english, however.
>>143121477
Your English is better than most native speakers. Thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective. What you say, has at least peaked my interest enough to consider rewatching. I hadn't considered gnosticism as a angle through which to view Ergo Proxy, so perhaps its worth revisiting. Its possible that I may have gotten hung up on the existential fluff as a negative, simply because its something I have some background in.
I would still argue that Ergo Proxy has issues with pacing and with trying to pack too many complex ideas into a single anime. Again, I'm not arguing that I didn't enjoy it, rather that it left me somewhat disappointed after its strong opening.
>>143122036
Thank you, your words are very kind. I am glad to have peaked your interest, and I believe that perhaps looking at the series from another view could give you a different understanding.
I think I have to agree with you, as I can now see that you are correct in saying that there are issues with the movement of the show. I believe a rewatch for myself would also be interesting.
Thank you for having this discourse with me, it has been fun. Have a good day my friend :)
>>143119775
>>143120358
>>143120909
>>143121477
>>143122036
>>143122236
Well that was a sweet conversation... didn't expect actual analysis in an /a/ thread of all places
>>143122672
Night /a/ is pretty chill
>>143122769
Real nigga hours, y'all.
>>143122786
I love you /a/
>>143122895
This was a good thread
>>143116712
Screencapping this post so we can laugh about it on /m/ later
>best anime has to offer
A show thats literally ideon, gundam, devilman, and ultraman thrown in a lazy blender the rest being random christian symbolism Anno himself admitted has no intended meaning
>the best anime has to offer
PFFFHAHAHA
Lain is good, Ergo Proxy is decent and comfy, and unlike NGE they have actual substance to them. NGE only broke the mold for starting cancerous waifufaggotry
You know, that thing that was only an ironic joke here until all you reddit users arrived
>>143116744
IIRC Shinsen-subs has all the references listed after the credits
>>143114191
It had good episodes, but it also had forgetful episodes.
I liked it, though it was trying too hard to be 2deep and didn't need 2 cours.
>>143116665
>"Convert to Christ because Robot-loli jesus will save you but don't forget the devil will always come back"
But robot loli was the exact opposite of a saviour.
She saved nobody, had most of the robots discarded and fucking mutated others.
>>143114263
COMPOSER WAS A SMALLVILLE FAN
>>143114869
Ergo proxy has always been discussed here. It holds the status of the worst good cyberpunk anime. By the way the worst bad cyberpunk anime is Psychopass. What a tryhard peice of shit.
I enjoyed the discourse in this thread last night. It gave me more of an appreciation of EP. So, thanks.
>>143114191
It's one of those shows where the quality is like a heartrate monitor.
Like you can have an okay episodes, a shit episode, a terrible episode, or an amazing episode at any episode, and it's rarely two in a row, except maybe for shit episodes.
I really enjoyed bits of it like the Re-l, Piyo and whatshisname slice of life episode, or the Iggy one, the ones in the junkyard
but then you have shit like the shopping mall/dome one, or Jeopardy which you need to watch to know key plots points even though it's fucking stupid, or that one with Vamp from MGS
And then you just have episodes like Pino saves Disney World, or the whyboner one but then turns out to be entirely pointless to the plot
Mixed fucking bag.
>>143118543
You dun fuckin dorked, bro.
