If Archer was serious, could he have won the holy grail war?
Considering someone as weak as Shirou defeated Gilgamesh (the strongest servant) Archer logically should have been able to absolute buttfuck him and everyone else.
Maybe if his legs were a little longer he would.
>>142670959
>Fire beat Grass
>Water beat Fire
>Therefore Water must beat Grass
Remember that he completely lost to Berserker, Lancer, and Rider (the latter 2 spared him but were 100% capable of finishing him)
>>142671570
>lost to Lancer
Did we read the same story?
I believe he could've.... but if I remember correctly it was hinted during the fate route that he remembered who Illya was and chose not to use UBW.
>>142670959
>Shirou defeated Gilgamesh (the strongest servant) Archer logically should have been able to absolute buttfuck him and everyone else.
You're a dumb fuck, power levels aren't linear in Fate. Its more about strategy, luck, situation, and how your power counters or interacts with someone elses power.
Archer has the advantage against Gilgamesh, but against almost no one else, and several people have an advantage against him. Shirou counters Gilgamesh, which isn't the same as being stronger than him. Numerically Gilgamesh is a fuckload stronger, but due to how their powers work against each other, Shirou has compatibility advantage.
It was always that kind of franchise rather than DBZ where powers are linear, and you could only beat someone if your power level was stronger. They have a part in FSF where they get onto people who think its ever power levels that win.
You can be the guy who can't beat anyone else, and still have a power that counters the strongest guy, but only that one guy.
Also yes, Archer had a chance to win, just like everyone else did. The question is how much of a chance.
>>142671808
>Archer had a chance to win, just like everyone else did.
Explain to me how exactly could Rider, Assassin, or Lancer have won the war.
>>142671950
If Bazett wasn't so easily manipulated by Kirei, Lancer and Bazett could have wrecked shop.
>>142671675
the Raw Anus scene. Archer was spent, Cu could've killed him then and there if Archer wasn't going to betray Caster
>>142672342
Could nothing, the only servants that would have stood anything resembling a chance are Gil and Herc. In a "fair" war, Herc would be the only real obstacle, and Brazzers isn't above killing the loli.
>>142671950
>Rider
She did. Only surviving servant in a True End
>Assassin
He steamrolled with Zouken throughout HF
>Lancer
If Bazett wasn't killed they would have been a terrifying force
>>142671950
>Rider
>Abuse Cybele to nerf or petrify every opponent
>fight smart and dirty and use Monstrous Strength
>only use Bellerophon to finish off foes that aren't packing A++ NPs up their sleeves
More or less her in HF has a decent shot at it, her biggest threat is Berserker since she can only kill him once or twice with Bellerophon and then she's hosed. If another Servant takes him out, her odds skyrocket. She shouldn't wind up in a battle with Gil since he has no reason to fight her and vice versa.
>Assassin
>be fucked forever due to being stuck on the gate unless every other Servant shows up to fight him personally
>still fucked unless someone else kills Berserker
>at least no need to fight Gil ever
>Lancer
>don't let Kirei kill Bazett
>Gae Bolg to victory anyways
Just because there's a chance of victory doesn't mean it's likely. Lancer was technically screwed before the war even started, since he isn't even a Servant for a Master intent on winning the war (Kirei just intends to observe and reward the victor with the grail AKA let the world be destroyed) as was Assassin, but even so it's technically possible for both of them to 'win' the war in the sense of beating every other opponent.
>>142672602
Assassin wins the war if his master wins the war. And his master wins the war if her master wins the war. I don't think that's the slimmest odds.
>>142672602
Cu is actually a massive threat to Rider too because he's an experienced monster exterminator according to Nasu and he can immunize himself to Cybele with his rune magic. I don't see Medusa beating Cu in a straight confrontation since even if she hops on her Pegasus, he can still target her by flinging his spear at her as she comes at him.
>>142672751
Issue is that Caster is the weakest of them all bar none, and her master is an autistic kung fu one-trick pony who's only good for surprise attacks and becomes worthless after that. Assassin is not only fucked over by being shackled to that gate, he's fucked by his boss(es) being close to useless.
>>142672808
If things hadn't gone awry her UBW army would be a serious threat. Every FSN servant had a decent to win depending on circumstance (barring Kojiro but he's just a proxy to Caster), and all of are strong contenders in a "normal" grail war.
>>142670959
>If this self insert OC is serious
No duh, cancer.
Power level, power level.
With three different stories that show the characters even in different situations, should not be clear that winning a holy war is basically a matter of luck-favorable situation and the strategy?
If the author had thought of a Caster route with Shirou, probably she would have been valued more, even to the point of demonstrating power and magic absent in the the other stories.
Raider has a secondary role in Night and UBW, but wins the war in HF. Power levels count for little, because the Holy war is never really an honest and straight fight tournament, but a more complicated succession of betrayals, unexpected events, sieges and various plot armors. To be frank, for what I've seen, it has a lot more of sense if you try to summon a loyal servant (Rider ) that has several tricks and varying utility compared to a combat nerd simply powerful.
Gil kicked Lancer's and berserker's ass but somehow Shitrou stated he can't beat Lancer or other servants despite having a reality marble that can sword spam like GoB.
>>142676123
Because against Gil, Shirou had the advantage of being able to replicate each sword, lance, or weapon that was thrown at him. Basically Gilgamesh was making Shirou stronger at every attack.
Some of these weapons were maybe even magical. Against Lancer, this was not possible.
Still, if Archer had fought seriously (which he has its own repertoire of weapons), he might have to kicked Lancer ass easily, given what proves to be able to do against Hercules.
he's basically a nerfed Gil, but dangerous as him, because it does not really matter if his swords are copies with a one less rank. When you on your head a rain of rank B swords...unless you are Hercules, you die.
>>142676123
Nasu is a hack.
>>142676123
>looking for consistency
It just depends on how it is convenient for the story.
>>142670959
Didn't Archer know who all the masters and servants were? Couldn't he just have sniped the shit out of everyone?
>>142671675
He was left with a broken arm and no mana after tanking Gae Bolg, while Lancer was completely fine.
>Finally, I have become Unlimited Blade Works
What did he mean by this?
Shirou won because he was technically a hard-counter to Gil, though even Gil could destroy Shirou if Gil was capable of not being Gil and actually trying seriously from the beginning like most other servants.
Archer is just a stronger Shirou, which means he was potentially the weakest servant in the war at the time. I could see him winning the war, but odds would give Hercules the win.
If the grail is fake/destroyed/tainted, how will the mages gain entrance to the root?
>>142670959
Nope. He has a 4x type advantage against KoH, and much like Pokemon, is gimped in other areas.
>>142672808
Reminder Assassin repelled Berserker when he assaulted Ryuudo Temple
>>142678766
BRAVO ANUS
R
A
V
O
A
N
U
S
>>142679157
>Archer is just a stronger Shirou
yeah, right from your ass.
Archer vs Shirou was a battle of ideals. Archer says Clearly That if he wanted, he could close the duel right at the start. He has adapted his attacks to that of Shirou facing him without even manifesting the speed that has been shown against lancer.
>>142679342
So you greentext my point only to reinforce it. What was the point and why did you try to make it sound like you were proving me wrong?
>is an Archer (means he's strongest in a ranged fight)
>Is able to survive a close quarter combat with Lancer
>Is able to take 6 lives of Hercules who's literally super sonic fast and super strong, starting in melee range, while still wounded.
>Shirou with his arm (literally an extremely weak version of Archer) manages to out-swordmanship Saber alter (best sword user class) and cut her down in a 1v1
>stronger than Gilgamesh (serious Gilgamesh doesn't exist)
How could Archer not take the Holy Grail War with all his feats?
>>142672771
Monster Hunter bonus only works vs her gorgon form
Pegasus is A+ (2 x A) at full power, while Gay Bulge is B, he wouldn't stand a chance. Rider is strongest servant in the 5th war after Gil, Saber and Berserker
>>142679253
still works, it just releases Avenger to the world. but hey, the Akasha.
>>142671570
>Berserker
The author stated he didn't even try serious (using UBW), he would probabily win if he went for 100%. Berserker is portrayed as a god but he's shit in 5th War
>Lancer
Yeah unless he uses some gimmicky he loses.
>Rider
Not really sure there, I don't even remember him being in trouble there, he was just surprised and was forced to save Tohsaka or am I wrong? Anyway I hardly think he could lose. Maybe to Bellophon, but he could use Excalibur and destroy her
>>142681789
Also, this is if we consider he'll fight in melee range.
If he just fights like an Archer should fight he would win every freaking fight.
How serious would Gilgamesh take counter guardian EMIYA?
Could any servant beat Rin+Saber+Avalon?
>>142681789
so why he's considered a mid-tier when everything in Fate suggests instead that he is an extremely and versatile High Tier?
Nasu is a hack that changes what he says every time someone asks.
>>142682114
pretty much no. Maybe Karna and of course Salomon.
Is it possible to summon Saitama as a Heroic Spirit?
>>142682777
is it possible to summon DoomGuy as Berserker or Archer?
>>142682994
is it possible to summon Madara as a Heroic Spirit?
>>142683041
is it possible to summon TOHSAKA ANUS as a sex slave?
>>142683069
Is it possible to summon SAKURA as a WORMSLUT?
>>142682112
I don't think even EA can save him from CG
>>142676123
UBW is a counter agains GoB, but shirou can't spam UBW for 10 hours straight(like Gil does against lancer on the first route), UBW was faster which made possible for slightly inferior weapons to rival the "originals". There's also the owner vs wielder shit.
>>142670959
>if XY was serious
if he or she is a slacker and/or lacks motivation it's a disadvantage that can't be overcome without breaking character
it's the same old story with the golden jobber
>>142679306
But he still couldn't even scratch him. He only did so by literally pushing Berserker back with his sword whenever Berserker tried to advance, and with Caster's gravity magic backup.
>>142681543
No you idiot, Medusa always has a bit of Gorgon in her. That's why her Divinity is ranked down and why she can use Monstrous Strength. She's treated as a monster-type Heroic Spirit (Air I think?) in Grand Order too, so hero-type Heroic Spirits (Earth) like Lancer are strong against her and she's weak against them as well.
>Pegasus is A+ (2 x A) at full power, while Gay Bulge is B, he wouldn't stand a chance.
He doesn't have to throw Gae Bolg at Pegasus you moron, he can target Medusa while she's riding it.
>>142677322
He forgot almost all memories from his life due to becoming a Counter Guardian. Some of the only ones he still has is the memory of the moment he summoned Saber, and his memory of the moment Kerry saved him from the fire and gave him the signature Emiya smile of genuine happiness.
>>142681789
>The author stated he didn't even try serious (using UBW),
You're 100% bullshitting about that, Archer literally said he was glad he'd be able to go all-out for once against Berserker. The mere fact that he was able to kill him six times is something that could be called a miracle given how outmatched he was.
>but he could use Excalibur and destroy her
Archer can only use an extremely weaker form of Excalibur as a suicide attack.
>>142682114
Sure.
>>142682114
Literally any Servant could beat any Servant, no matter the difference in power. It's like the foundation of this series.
>>142683041
Are you talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara?
>>142670959
Ok, I don't expect everyone to have read the VN, but fuck at least pay attention to the anime. It was fucking stated that Shirou against someone who could use decently theri NP like Lancer or Saber would have lost. Shirou was the perfect counter for Gilgamesh, so was Archer that got rekt by both Lancer and Berserker even if he was serious
>>142672771
>straight confrontation
That's why she plays dirty
>>142682777
nice trips sensei
>>142688686
Archer played dirty against Lancer too, didn't really save him.
>>142681160
Because he wanted to commit paradox suicide. No time for grail when your faggot younger self runs around.
>>142681160
>starting in melee range,
Yeah, being across a gigantic grand hall is 'melee range'.
>while still wounded.
Literally read the VN, he was fully recovered and it's not debatable.
>manages to out-swordmanship Saber alter
You mean how he got his ass kicked around and knew full well he was gonna lose in a mere 40 steps in a normal test of swordsmanship and had to use his Noble Phantasm to win?
>>142688837
Archer playing dirty =/= Rider playing dirty.
Jesus, it's the basics of the series - any character has a chance against other character given right circumstances/preparations.
>>142688956
You're right, Archer's way better at it thanks to Eye of the Mind and the versatility granted by UBW.
>any character has a chance against other character given right circumstances/preparations.
Yeah, yeah.
>>142670959
An even better question; why is Archer the most handsome servant?
>>142689028
Please now.
>>142689028
Why is he brown anyway?
>>142689138
Excessive magic use
>>142687229
nasuverse its rock-papers-scissors battles
>>142689138
Tan
>>142689138
african american descendant
>>142682147
He's extremely unimpressive "stat-wise" even under Tohsaka who is an excellent master, but >stats
>>142670959
Define "serious."
If Archer used UBW intelligently and to its fullest potential then yes, he could beat the shit out of any Servant in the war. If he started actually activating all of the bullshit in UBW there's not much that could stop him. Lancer might have Gay Bulge, for example, but Archer does too and he can shoot his from a bow from the other side of the city. His most obvious and really his only weakness is mana consumption.
It's the same with Gilgamesh. If he started using the abilities of all of his shit instead of just shooting them like bullets he'd be unbeatable.
>>142689138
removing kebab in the middle east gets you tanned
>>142689028
It's the smile.
>>142689138
to increase contrast with his le white hair
If Gil had used Ea from the start against Shirou he surely would have won, right?
>>142689448
imagine things like this
Gil is like that rich kid in an mmo who uses IRL cash to get super strong gear and weapons but has no real skill whatsoever
he sucks as a swordsman
>>142689448
Unlimited Blade Works wouldn't help in the slightest against Heracles.
In fact, using it would be a terrible idea. Depriving himself of any terrain advantages just gives Berserker a straight line to steamroll him.
>>142689028
Not even close faggot
>>142689616
If he declared the name and allowed it to build up rotational speed.
>another three hundred post thread where anons try and pretend there is internal consistency to fate/powerlevels
People are as strong as the plot needs them to be for a particular scene. Nasu then cooks up whatever reasoning he can afterwards.
>>142689798
ROCK
PAPER
SCISSORS
>>142689668
You do understand that Archer has a whole arsenal of A-rank Noble Phantasms, right?
Really all Archer has to do is find Heracles, blast the shit out of him with some Broken Phantasms, and then go ghost and leave to replenish his mana before returning and shooting him up with some different shit next time.
>>142689646
yeah well Gil is a cheeky cunt
It makes no sense that Gil has worse skill with swords than Shirou. Even if he sucks compared to other servants, he's still one of the oldest heroes. He should be more skilled than a japanese teenager
>>142689844
Not even that, though. It's purely plot driven, and then Nasu makes up a bunch of convoluted asspull reasons afterwards.
>>142689873
>You do understand that Archer has a whole arsenal of A-rank Noble Phantasms, right?
You do understand Unlimited Blade Works inflicts a rank-down on its Noble Phantasms, right?
Making all of those B-rank that don't harm him at all?
>blast the shit out of him with some Broken Phantasms
Broken Phantasms take time and energy, he can't spam them like he can normal projections. And yes, with large reserves of energy and great effort, he managed to bring Heracles down in six different variations. But he did that in the Einzbern's castle with great devastation to the surroundings. Casting Unlimited Blade Works would be utter suicide.
>and then go ghost and leave to replenish his mana before returning
How the FUCK is he going to outrun Heracles who has A rank agility?
>>142689909
i dont think he has no skill with swords whatsoever that's why hes an archer and shoots them like a retard
Shirou at least worked hard, practicing with saber and alone
>>142671950
>Explain to me how exactly could Rider, Assassin, or Lancer have won the war
>what is Heaven's Feel True
>what is F/HA
>>142689909
He is. Shirou just traces skill as well.
>>142689909
It's mostly autopilot, the whole "tracing the experience" deal 'n shit.
>>142682114
RODGER
>>142689138
He got a tan because the temperature in sandnig countries are too high.
>>142690089
Can't dodge the Rodge
>>142690041
If Shirou traces skill he should be able to fight other servants, not just gilgamesh. Also tracing skill seems like a really broken ability yet Shirou is said to be a shitty mage
>>142690041
>Shirou just traces skill as well
That's not quite true. It's more like Shirou traces the physical attributes of the wielder and the "techniques" of the weapon. It's like monkeying somebody else. He gets the moves but doesn't get the skill.
If he fought Lancer with Gae Bolg he'd get shit on.
>>142690149
>traces skill
>has skill
>weapon is inferior
He beats Gil because he overwhelmed Gil by countering Gil's counters. Shirou knew that if he gave Gil a second to breathe, he'd be dead.
>>142681789
Medusa's Mystic Eyes completely fuck over anyone with below B-rank magic resistance, Archer would get petrified instantly because of his shitty stats.
>>142690149
>he should be able to fight other servants
With adequate training and sufficient magical power he is as good as Archer, who can fight with servants.
>Also tracing skill seems like a really broken ability yet Shirou is said to be a shitty mage
Because he is a shitty magus. He has one exceptional talent born of his Reality Marble, and while it's "strong" (in terms of battlefield application) it's unbelievably conditional.
>>142690160
Tracing is always a rank down no matter how you slice it. Facing someone with their own sword is suicide.
>>142690212
Archer has B rank magical energy though. He gets petrified to the waist because her power caught him off guard, but he wasn't petrified completely.
>>142690089
He can also be summoned as Rider and Avenger.
>>142690160
>If he fought Lancer with Gae Bolg he'd get shit on.
He kept that dog at bay using just a piece of paper held together with reinforcement, until he tactically retreated into his shed and summoned Saber, all according to keikaku.
>>142690293
>this is not even my Gay Bulge Final Form
The only good thing about shirou is he will kill a shiton of sandniggers in the future.
>>142690631
Why did his hair turn white?
>>142690831
Apparently that happens when you make a deal with Alaya. The future Shirou at the end of UBW is still a ginger
>>142670959
>BTFO by Saber
>BTFO by Cu
>BTFO by Medusa
>BTFO by Herc
>>142690631
ARCHER ANIMATED BACKSTORY WHEN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
can any servant beat shulk?
>class: saber
>Alignment: neutral good
>Strength:D
>Endurance:D
>agility:B
>magic:B
>luck:EX
>Noble Phantasm:A++
skills
>visions: EX
shulk can see the future whenever he or his master are in great danger
>engineer: A
shulk is a well known Technician and can build and operate any machines of the era he is summoned too and more.
>magic resistance: B
shulks blade gives him great resistance to magic
>Noble Phantasm: The Monado
an ancient blade that is said to have been crated by a great god of the world biones. can cut through most metals with ease and has a wast number of ability's. the Monado has 30 second cooldown after using an ability and the ability itself lasts 5 minutes (note: monado shield only lasts 10 seconds)
>Monado enchant: C
Shulk can buff himself, raising all his stats to one point for a short period of time (example: agility B to A)
>Monado Shield: C
Blocks spells and noble Phantasms if either of those are the same rank or lower than the shields.
>Monado Speed: C
Shulk can boost his agility or the agility of others by one point.
>Monado Purge:C
Shulk can seal or dispel an servants magical ability's if the spell or the servent is lower than its rank. if higher, it makes the servants magic less effective and goes down 1 ranks in magic.
>Monado Armour: C
Shulk creates an Armour around him and his master giving them some protection from physical attacks.
>Monado Cyclone: C
Shulk can summon a tornado around himself to blast off his enemy.
>Monado buster:A
Shulk strongest attack. turns his blade into a giant lesser that cuts through anything standing in its way. he can even cut through a Noble Phantasms if its rank is lower than A.
>Monado 3:EX++
shulk summons his true Monado, turning him into a "god". shulk bends reality to his will and makes the impossible possible. however, once used shulk will no longer be a servant and thust disappears.
>>142690149
He can't even fight Shiki. Servants out of his league
