In Fate/Zero Kiritsugu didn't engage directly in battle against Servants. He even avoided Assassin, who is too strong for a human to cope with, despite being one of the weakest Servant. Yet in FSN, Kotomine dueled with True Assassin and was able to hold his ground. Shirou also had a manly fight against Gil who is supposed to have even better stats than Assassin. Just how strong are Servants exactly?
>>142628385
Kotomine was high on paint thinner and krokodil at the time of his battle with True
As strong as the plot requires them to be.
>>142628385
Very strong, it's just that all assassins are little bitches
>>142628385
kirei only won agaisnt TA becasue TA use the same pattern aganst cu and shirou has servants stats by tracing weapons secondary kun
You're forgetting that F/Z assassin's strength was numbers, and that Kotomine was basically immune to true assassin's whole gimmick.
>>142628385
>>142628385
Fate match ups aren't that simple. Read the VN, bitch.
>>142628697
What methods?
>>142628833
like sniping them from a city block away?
>>142628833The Dick
>>142628833
Like Origin bullet would probably fuck up any Caster really easily, but get deflected by most other servants.
>>142628385
>Yet in FSN, Kotomine dueled with True Assassin and was able to hold his ground.
No he wasn't, True Assassin beat his ass and Kotomine only managed to score a win because Zabaniya didn't work and TA wasn't taking him seriously.
>>142629390
Origin bullet is worthless against anyone worth shit, and I don't even know if servants can be affected by it.
>>142628697
That's like saying," yeah Shirou and Shiki could kill every servant", if they sneaked up or teamed up with NP rain and dot stab against one.
It's a dumb statement.
Anyone can win depending on methods, it's literally Nasu just saying
>It depends on the writer
Because that's all his works amount to. Someone beating something because x and x and + x reason because x just happened to happen in that exact moment and bla bla.
Asspulls, normally Gilgamesh shouldn't get beaten by Shirou no matter how because he's supposed to be hundreds of times faster and stronger.
Kuzuki shouldn't have done shit to Saber just because she wasn't on guard, Saber has tanked much worse attacks, Kuzuki grabbing her neck like that is bullshit.
Rider Medusa could kill big majority of servants thanks to cybele yet it's always nerfed and worthless unless plot demands it to be worth something.
>>142628833
>What methods?
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""methods""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" like getting your side bitch to capture your rival mage's waifu, then threatening to kill her but offering them a geass saying you won't hurt them in anyway if they use their command skills to kill their servant while it's distracted by your servant, and then having your side bitch snipe the masters afterwards.
>>142628917
That would beat about half of them, but what aboutmale servants?
>>142628385
>Just how strong are Servants exactly?
As strong as Nasu needs them to be for whatever shitty shounen battle scene he's writing.
>>142628514
Say that to my face not online and see what happens, bitch.
>>142631665
This is the only right answer.
HAHA, COOL THREAD OP
But is there a character who can even TOUCH Nero? Let alone defeat her
>>142631786
UMU
So, how is Shirou able to fight toe to toe with Gilgamesh in terms of just fighting power?
Isn't Gilgamesh's reaction time supposed to be much better than his?
I've finished all three routes in the VN.
Is Shirou able to keep up because of him catching up when he was fighting archer?
Or was that entire scene just bullshit?
>>142631715
>strong
>no NP
>>142632235
Weapon experiance, knowledge, growth and information is downloaded and replicated during the tracing and use of projection
>>142632235
plot armor and bad writing
>>142632235
It's just a cool fight scene, just like Shiki vs Nero.
>>142632235
>Or was that entire scene just bullshit?
PLAHTO AHRMURU
>>142628385
Servants vary in strength from the level of most common supernatural beings such that magi deal with on a regulars basis to things that are very powerful but not unkillable using standard means.
They fill the middle ground between street level and cosmic entities and are roughly one tier above magi and vampires and such but overall none of the Servants, is really as powerful as the god level entities of the setting.
That said Kiritsugu isn't a particularly powerful mage but rather a specialist who mainly uses ambushes and traps. If Assassin is the weakest Servant who makes up for it by sneaking around and killing masters instead of fighting directly then Kiritsugu is the magi equivalent whereas people like Kotomine and Bazette are the equivalent of Lancers and Sabers.
Kiritsugu is an assassin. Assassin is a better assassin.
Gil is an Archer. Shirou is a better Archer.
The end.
>>142632998
>>142632662
The only one who has plot armour is Gilgamesh himself, seriously.
The fact of the matter is that a single use of excalibur can kill him at any time and since Rin still has all three command seals she can literally at any time order Saber to teleport on top of him and end the whole thing prematurely.
The plot bends over backwards to make Gil seem like a legitimate threat but there's no escaping from the fact that he dies to against Arthuria who doesn't have a proper mana supply and a single blow in heaven's feel.
That and he no longer has a Servant body so he couldn't even run away if he wanted to.
The only reason he dominates his fights is because every enemy is crippled by the time he shows up, whether Herk or Cu or Saber all are being held back by outside circumstances. His literally surviving on his A-rank luck and deliberately flirting with death instead of fighting like an Archer which is his only reliable skilset.
>>142632235
Shirou's tracing and strengthening magic gives him servant level stats.
>>142632235
asspull and shitty writing
>>142632235
> Gil didn't have his armor on
> Shirou torrented data from Archer via Nasuverse time paradox shenanigans
> in Fate route he wielded Caliburn and was capable of blocking blows from fucking Herakles. Gil is a subpar swordsman. I think no further explanation's needed
>>142628385
Kotomine had prep and Hassan is so weak that Nasu doesn't even consider him "Servant-level".
>>142633482
>The fact of the matter is that a single use of excalibur can kill him at any time
Isn't that the case with all Servants?
>>142633482
It took an EX ranked NP and a point-black Excaliblast to kill him in Fate.
Said Excaliblast normally vaporizes its opponents, yet his bling-bling armor was so durable he "got away" with "just" a huge slash on his body.
>>142634786
Doesn't Iskander survive one?
Or did it just graze him and kill his cows?
>>142632235
>Weapon experiance, knowledge, growth and information is downloaded and replicated during the tracing and use of projection
Mother fucker since when did information equal speed? Doesn't a servant move like 1 mach or something?
It just bad writing dude. It just fucking horrible writing.
>>142635387
did you read the other routes?
Shirou replicates the wielder's stats as well, not just his/her skills.
>>142635564
So when was speed a stats?
>>142628882
Guns (or any weapon without a divine mystery) don't affect Servants. It's possible they'd feel the impact of it, but no damage.
>>142634661
Yet his stats are comparable to Cu and Medusa (this is why Stat sheets should be ignored)
>>142635340
He jumped out of the way. Weird how Saber didn't notice or that his slow ass was capable of that, but she was so shit in Zero I'm not surprised.
>>142628385
Kotomine is literally a zombie fueled by grail mud. He can fake his death pretty easily, as the grail will just revive him so long as his body is mostly intact. He's actually the perfect foil against true assassin, as his noble phantasm is designed to kill people by taking their heart. I don't think that would really affect Kotomine that much. Cu lacked confidence that even Gae Bolg could put him down for good, and decided to burn the corpse to make sure.
>>142636927
She did notice. She was only interested in knocking him down a peg after realizing he didn't kidnap Iri.
>>142635340
Iskandar dodged it just the moment before it destroyed his chariot.
>>142637512
Makes sense. Been awhile since watching Zero.
>>142638086
Wait, does that also include half heartedly attacking/ letting him dodge or was she intent on hitting him full force and he happened to avoid it?
Wormslut.
>>142638698
The only real slut in Fate is Caren. Sakura was a victim of abuse.
>>142638969
At first, I thought she would make a god-tier waifu. And then I found out that she literally is a prostitute. Well, better safe than sorry.
>>142636666
Can servant can survive nuke?
>>142638969
>>142639453
Karen is as forsaken by her gifts as Sakura. They both inherited a "curse" of talent from their parents.
The church doesn't take kindly to heretics, and when they found out about Karen's ability the people around her raised her to believe it was her duty to, as a heretic, give herself for saving others. Sadly earning herself the title of Bloody Mary Magdalene. They didn't even want to teach her to read she was such an outcast. So her and Sakura have that in common that their powers only gave them misfortune, and altered their mindset.
Same with Kohaku and Fujino. They all got the short string of life because they were special in a society that is less than kind if you don't adhere to certain tenets.
F/Z anime makes Servants too weak compared to UBW anime. Director is hit and miss with his "Dark Knight" inspiration
>>142639453
wait, wait, wait. SOURCE MOTHER FUCKER SOURCE. WHERE DID YOU FIND OUT THAT SHE WAS A PROSTITUTE!??!?
>>142639743
I believe their bodies would be obliterated but their spirit is intact so they'd just have to make a new one.
>>142638969
She was just searching for perfect dick. Took some time but she finally found it
>>142639831
>Fujino, Kohaku, Sakura, and Caren are all a similar archetype
Is Nasu expanding on the idea he wrote with the preceding character or just lazy? See also Araya, Nero, and Kotomine
>>142640730
Lol
>>142640454
> Nero
> Araya
> Kotomine
> similar
how? aside from being voiced by George
>>142635564
This isn't really true considering we get like 5 scenes where Shirou is talking about how his body can't properly keep up with his 'instincts'
It happens literally every scene where he projects something
>>142641410
An extraordinary weight.
Emiya Shirou cannot handle this giant sword.
Butmy left arm will definitely reproduce the strength of my enemy.
>>142641134
That and being the tall bad guy in a long black coat.
>>142635919
It's an unlisted stat (Agility is not the same thing). Most servants displayed supernatural speed. Lancer and Rider were said and shown to be faster than the others, so it's an equal thing either.
>>142628385
It means Kerry is shit if he can't fight the worst Assassin ever.
Let's piss off Jetfag and talk about how Lancelot can lose to everyone else:
Saber: Not being written by Urobutchi
Lancer: Dearg nulls KoH weapons and can needle him with neverhealing wounds, which will surely increase his already huge mana consumption
Gil: GoB spam greater than a paltry dozen
Rider: Dogpile him in IH or run him over again like at the harbor
Caster: Have Cthulhu eat and/or tentacle rape him
Assassin: Kariya's an extremely easy target and Mad Enchancement makes it harder for Berserker to see them coming.
>>142638698
fake tits
>>142640730
>prostitute
>implying she doesn't do it for free
>>142629601
Origin bullet is conceptual, so it would be more effective against servants if anything. Assuming it could hit them. I imagine many servants could dodge it easily.
>>142634786
Herk can tank it.
>>142649316
It cuts Magic Circuits. Servants don't have any Magic Circuits. It wouldn't work. Maybe it could cause a bit of damage, but the effect wouldn't work.
>>142628385
Does anyone have the comparisons between fate stay night tv and bd?
>>142649458
Cutting circuits is a side effect of the origin: binding and severing. It should do that operation on the spiritual core itself. What kinda damage that does idk, but it ain't good.
>>142649126
It's her profession.
>>142649656
Just download the blu-rays for both FZ and FSN.
>>142654051
I want to see the difference, If I were to download the show I would download the BD either way.
>>142631601
>Bastet is getting dicked by Shirou RIGHT NOW
How does it feel?
>>142629762
>That's like saying," yeah Shirou and Shiki could kill every servant"
"Shiki can kill servants" is certainly not a dumb statement.
>>142640454
The only real significant retreading he does with those four is people used and abused by their perspective societies. Which is important to flesh out the moral ambiguity of the universe. Magi, the church, the Taima, they are all equally grey.
>>142633482
>The fact of the matter is that a single use of excalibur can kill him at any time
Yeah nah, since the moment Arturia unsheathes Excalibur he draws Ea and Ea > Excalibur GG.
>since Rin still has all three command seals she can literally at any time order Saber to teleport on top of him and end the whole thing prematurely.
Servants can only Command Spell teleport to come to their Master's side. Otherwise, the best they can do is massively boost their speed. It's also a moot point because it requires Rin to be able to see where Gilgamesh is, and if she's that close to him then they're definitely not taking Gil by surprise no matter how fast Arturia might move. See: Archer vs. Saber in F/HA.
>but there's no escaping from the fact that he dies to against Arthuria who doesn't have a proper mana supply
Avalon gives her a massive mana supply. It's why she can use Excalibur three times in a row without needing any backup from Shirou in the final battle. Even a highly talented magus would not be able to give her enough mana to use Excalibur three times in a row in a single battle.
>a single blow in heaven's feel.
It was a surprise attack from someone that holds absolute power over all spiritual beings like Servants because of the combination of being a Grail + a natural affinity towards Imaginary Numbers. No Servant would have survived in that situation.
>>142649766
It would only be able to do that if it actually struck the spiritual core (which means targeting either the brain or the heart). The reason why it works on magi so well is because when they use their magic, the bullet strikes the magic defense and the effects ride the flow of mana back into the magi's magic circuits then fucks them up.
But a single bullet is far too slow to hit even a weak Servant, even one fired by a D-rank Noble Phantasm gun wielded by Lancelot. To top it off, a lot of Servants have skills that boost their ability to detect unseen threats, so even assuming Kerry snuck up on a Servant successfully, he still might fail to get a direct hit on the spiritual core. Kerry's Origin Bullets are really really weak against Servants, assuming they are even effective on a direct hit which they might not be, since a Servant's armor alone might be sufficient to stop an Origin Bullet from penetrating.
Kerry himself pondered the idea of fighting Zero Assassin carefully during the dockyard battle as Saber started to look like she was in a worse and worse situation. He ultimately judged that he lacked the necessary equipment for it. So it's not necessarily that he couldn't kill a Servant, but with the gear that he has, it's just unfeasible. What equipment he was thinking of for the task is unknown, but it would probably be a special Mystic Code borrowed from the Mage's Association since the Church would not lend out one of his Holy Sacraments to some mere mercenary.
>>142659574
>flow of mana
So if it was someone like Saber, who uses Prana Burst all the time, and he shot her while she was using it, it would ride the flow of mana into her spiritual core and fuck her up?
