Ka$hiswagi will never be your nee-san.
>>142175736
>>142175736
Do you seriously think there's enough interest for this thread to last?
Two months later and I'm still angry
>>142177645
Angry about what, that Theo had the balls to do what had to be done?
>>142178317
No. Just the whole depressing situation.
>>142178431
Yeah, Axmann and his stasi cunt girlfriend really messed Lise up.
>>142178671
I'm pretty sure not even in the anime did Beatrix have a direct hand in Lise's "conversion", but she was sure happy to use her as a disposable tool after she was already broken. Watanabe really left no trace of humanity or redeeming values in her character.
I want to beat up Beatrix!
>>142179592
>>142179670
Imagine how cool it would feel to reduce someone as badass as Beatrix to a beaten up mess lying on the floor and sobbing
>>142179883
>implying I would beat her physically
>implying I wouldn't do it psychologically, tear down all her motivations and plans
>implying I wouldn't be cuddling and shushing her tears afterwards before molding her into exactly what I want
>implying she wouldn't be mine forever afterwards
>>142179883
You mean like Theo did?
>>142179983
Axmann pls go
>>142175736
Is it bad that I get the biggest boner for her in Alternative?
>>142180103
Lise is for comforting and healing
>>142180103
>implying I'd mold her into anything but my devoted concubine, cuddle-toy, and mother of my children
>>142180201
>>142180201
Yes, but Beatrix is for bruising, bloodying, beating, bashing, and bullying!
>>142180547
>Beatrix acts smug around you
>gets knocked down with a powerful punch
>>142180547
>>142180608
moderate rebel plz go
also
>implying psychologically destroying and rebuilding her into a perfect, devoted lover/housewife isn't more satisfying
>>142180547
If its for the greater good then maybe tying Beatrix up to stop her, followed by reconstructive therapy. Only apply the 5 b's in extreme cases and if no other way.
>>142180666
I'd rather beat her until she's terrified of me.
>>142180666
>666
Since when has the 666th supported anything but penetrating Beatrix?
I want to tell Katia the scariest BETA bedtime stories I can think of and describe the most gruesome parts as detailed as possible, then wish her goodnight and leave her all alone.
>>142181003
Too late the nightmares are already real.
Suzy is for rape.
![[HorribleSubs] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_23.01_[2016.05.29_22.03.39].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sWqz8Xz.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Schwarzesmarken - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_23.01_[2016.05.29_22.03.39].jpg")
>>142176921
What's the significance of the double ahoge. I noticed Katia's started looking a lot like Beatrix's in the epilogue.
>>142180666
>that opinion
>those digits
Anyone got the tracknames for the mini-Ost that came out with the 3rd BD?
I want to beat Lise in a brutalticklefight.
>>142182354
Holy shit those hips, those tits, those thickstasithighs
I want to be like Axmann. He's my hero.
Headpat or corrupt?
>>142182402
Go for the knee.
>>142176324
sauce
Why is a mod baleeting out threads?
Is it one of the new jannies?
>>142176921
I don't like this
It's like she lost all her charm.
>>142181508
You have seen the trth,
>>142182354
Hey, where'd you get this?
Lise looks quite unhappy here.
She's not wearing her Stasi suit, so what gives? What in the 666th upset her? Theo looking at Iristits?
>tfw no Yugoslavia thread
>>142185802
*VN. Although a Yugoslavia Thread would be good too.
>>142181508
Katia and Lise are both better without their silly ribbons
Posting best girl
>>142185802
>Bad Yugoslavia Muvluv
-YUGOSLAVIA STRONG WE BEAT BATER
-TITO BEST LEEDER NO MISTAEK hehehe
-Literally best country
>Good Yugoslavia VN
- Having to choose between swallowing your pride to save your people or showing defiance and refusing help from either NATO or the Warsaw Pact.
- Genuinely agonizing over how your choices meant that people died, even taking your time meant people dying.
- Galvanizing your people by outwardly refusing to live in the safety of the capital and living close to the frontlines in the spartan conditions of the army.
- Forced to make moral choices and questionable means to ensure that everyone is safe, only to see it all go down because Muvluv reasons
- Likeable characters, both brave and cowardly, allied and against Tito, all acting in proper ways with good conviction that makes it hard to hate in the end.
Don't disappoint me, Yugoslaviafag.
>>142176921
We just need to spur the conversations beyond mindless obsessing.
On that note, I know Strike Horizon is another game coming up, but I can't help but wonder. What details do we have so far? Can I assemble my Dead Slavs dream team?
Stop fapping to dead slavs.
>>142186078
What's wrong with her
>tfw all those newfriends in july flooding these threads when they get muv luv from steam
>>142186498
>implying that didn't already happen during SchwarzesMarken and Total Eclipse anime airing and when first full fantranslations of the original VNs finished
Why is Sumika so shit? Is being shit in her case nature or nurture?
>>142187021
Does it matter? She'll always be a case of love it or hate it.I know you guys will say "nah she's just shit
One half of me wants to treat teenage Beatrix like a princess and protect her from the evils of the world. The other makes me want to put her through non-stop bullying just to see her pout and get angry.
>>142185738
>Hey, where'd you get this?
New OST. That's why I'm asking if anyone knows the Track names.
>>142187341
Wait, a new OST? What you mean? The part 2 was posted a good while ago.
>>142187239
Welcome to the world of Beatrix. The desire to molest and protect intermingle. Along with bullying and cuddling.
It's like her - duality.
>>142187469
Part three came out with the BD last weekend.
It has a bunch of tracks that didn't make it to the Anime, as they were for the SoL scenes in the VN.
>>142186385
>you mad?
My girl, don't lie to me. Where did you sleep last night?
>wake up
>Gretel is not real
>>142188767
>Wake up
>Gretel is not in your rape dungeon, crying like a little girl
>>142189177
Master pls go
Sumika is a slug.
>>142189369
Apologize to Slugkind!
>>142187538
Oh I see. Any link to it yet? I know some kind anon ripped the previous two parts for us.
>>142188767
At least one silver lining, thank goodness.
Does anyone know where to find more of the TSFiA stories translated? I only know the ones from said Wiki.
I want to know more about the world.
Happy Memorial Day to the fallen waifus, and the badasses who're still serving. We salute you.
ORDER, ARMS.
>>142190106
Too bad the one doing the summaries in the wiki drop dead like most of the ones
>>142190027
It got uploaded on hikarinoakariost but its not the same quality rip that the previous two had.
I'm more curious about the changes they made to episodes 5 & 6 though.
>>142175736
I just play Alternative last week and currently on Sadogashima arc AND SHE'S FUCKING DEAD
Holy shit fuck you guys
>>142186498
>mfw all the butthurt newfriends
>>142190401
We warned you that the ride was wild, but you just didn't want to listen.
>>142190440
I've heard about it, but everything just went absolutely wrong to the way that I don't even expecting
>>142190548
And the ride will continue to get wilder.
Good luck.
>>142175736
>tfw playing her maniax
>expecting a lot of her
>get his siscon brother who is an NTR fag and a brocon qt
At least the whole last part of the maniax got incredibly cute
>>142190249
>>142190590
I'm just still on the surface right? I fucking knew it
>>142190407
>>142186873
>>142186498
I still haven't played ml yet. Heck, i still haven't played hollow ataraxia yet despite the disk being loaded in a virtual drive on my computer. I have motivation problems.
Also yes having a stream release dangled just out of reach affects things.
>>142190249
>>142190701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn_iz8z2AGw
Better get some tissues, boys.
>>142182679
She corrupts herself.
The mere fact you want to headpat her already means you fell for her corruption.
>>142191050
>that one scene in TDA where it actually plays
I don't know whether to call these bitch tears or manly tears.
>>142184017
If I rubbed her mole, would she cry?
>>142179670
Was this photoshopped? I don't recall the VN scene in question having her look like that.
>>142191824
It is. But we could get the real deal in Martyrs.
>>142191434
>that one scene in TDA where it actually plays
Pretty good scene, having all the fallen ones being honored was pretty touching, since they thought it was all finally over.but as usual they have to fuck up your feelings with the 911 alert
Who /NVA/ here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unrtTjTujgM
>>142192068
>be Rank
>fail miserably
>>142192194
>BTFO some FFL and a Twin Huey
>fail
Which is the most BETA happymurdering girl in Mabu Rabu?
Prafka grills is unfair, since it's not a natural condition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Qp4kSpXxI
>>142192342
Probably a tossup between Yui or Latrova, they both called BETA inferior life forms/lesser creatures.
>>142191434
Both ;_;
>>142192342
Luna because gore covered TSFs turn her on, and thus the precondition for gore covered TSFs is included.
PACT PRIDE WORLDWIDE
>>142191434
Having served in the military, I can honestly tell you it's manly tears. Taps is the only piece of music that has ever made me cry just by hearing it, and not even really because of the song itself, but just because of what it represents. It's unspeakable sorrow wrapped up with deep, profound love. Ain't nothing bitch about shedding tears for your fallen brothers and sisters.
>>142192269
Well,that's good job for 15pts infantry squad, but damn, they failed in comparison to other guys
who /sumika/ here?
>>142193102
Bully the cockroach.
>>142182354
Maybe it's just me, but I feel Lise has much meatier hips and thighs in this picture than normal. Not sure.
>>142193102
>>142193165
WHAT THE FUCK SUMIKA
NO
NO
NO
WHAT THE FUCK
WHAT THE FUCK
THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN MARIMO
HOLY FUCK
>>142193485
It's delicious.
>>142193485
We warned you, we fucking warned you!
>>142193485
We warned you.
I want to take Katia in a lonely place no one can find us and shoot me, dress in a Soldier-class Halloween costume and chase her around.
>>142193729
Of all the "I want to X" posts this is by far the funniest yet.
>>142193729
>live in ex-soldiers neighborhood
>make some kids dress as soldier class
>enjoy mass-PTSD and panic
Can I apply for Stasi now?
Even if she is a secondary, Gretel will always be the main heroine of my heart
posting best girls.
>>142195093
Posting
>>142195093
>>142195093
>>142195168
>>142195172
>>142194306
We are back to business as usual I see.
>>142195245
I think too many of us have shit to do on the weekends. It's definitely a Monday to Thursday crowd.
>>142195655
Besides weekend threads where shit and deleted by mods
>>142195821
That one mod also savaged a lot of other threads as well.
>>142195821
Those were kind of painful to see, the mods were acting out of mercy.
Also, so I'm not too meta, Lise is a treasure who deserves to be loved, protected, and cherished, not blown apart or shot in the face.
>>142192565
Don't you mean USSR and the scrubs?
>>142191824
You just have to choose the right responses.
>>142196627
You mean the civilized world and Russia?
So, I'm into 5 episodes of TE and it's not so badyet
>>142197363
The first episodes of TE are a masterpiece and then it's very not. Yui suffering is pretty delicious and even the rest of the show can't take that away from the introductory arc.
>>142197569
There was an idea floated around in a thread the other day about a mercenary force comprised of displaced veterans and battered 2nd generation TSFs doing ops for hire which strikes me as a really good idea for a quasi-TE story that isn't shit. Instead we got... that.
So any major changes in SM BD 3?
>>142197729
TE could have been fine if they carved out the fanservice, honestly. By which i mean, the Arc where they went to the Caribbean for no reason whatsoever. It would be funny if they had the bikini episodes in the yukon, either getting eaten alive by mosquitos, freezing half to death or just inside a converyed hangar, but stuff like that destroyed the sense of desperation and urgency it should have had.
Slap Irisdina for being shit.
>>142198204
SM could have used slightly more fanservice, TE way less.
>>142198284
I think both would have happened if they followed more source material.
>>142198382
There would be a pool episode then.
>>142198228
Irisdina being shit is a direct consequence of Jurgen being the only person she's ever truly relied on.
Jurgen even if inadvertently caused most of the events in SM.
>>142198563
Jurgen just wanted to bone his waifu. Iris was the one who got closer to the stasi because she was lonely.
>>142198538
You wouldn't even need the pool episode. Shit like pic related was fanservicey enough.
>>142185738
She looks depressed/worried in most of the covers and promotional material she's in.
On a brighter note, imouto picnic complete with Katia bullying
https://u.pomf.is/jhfehi.mp4
>>142198563
>>142198671
If Abel and Mercedes and Axmann had all died in an unfortunate traffic accident everyone would have been happy and healthy until they were ripped apart by the beta
>>142198959
why is beato so smaug on frontcover?
>>142198967
Abel was an extremely shitty father, but you read some of the stuff about him and his politics don't seem so bad. He knew that communism was bad, and that the West was dominating them before the BETA came in and made everything worse. He was one of the guys who headed up the Berlin Faction, and wanted closer ties to the West. If anything, except for being an authoritarian, Jurgen found himself agreeing with a lot of Abel's points.
>>142182354
Sadly the BDs don't come with a tracklist for the OSTs,
>>142198959
Lise is too moe in the VN.
>>142199059
Because she's always smug. She's also in the typical evil overlord position on the cover, make of that what you will.
>>142199170
she hassecret routeposition
>>142199059
>>142199170
She's smug because she is above all other girls, as she should be in the natural order of things.
>>142199238
Have faith on that
Gretel is for disarming and pistol-whipping.
>>142199295
Suzy pls go
>>142198959
They forgot to slap her badass Werewolf patch on her pauldron.
>>142199295
Gretel is for practicing Krav Maga on.
>>142182354
I make up the names when I rip the OST keeping in spirit with that anon who made the partial SM OST from when the VN came out
In reality there are no track names aside from the 哀しみが時代を駆ける (whoever) ver.
Speaking of which, my copy of the BD arrives later today so expect the MP3 & FLAC rips in the evening
>>142199542
Well good to know. Tell of us the changes made to the episodes as well.
>>142195168
they look like third-wave feminist to me.
Homu a shit!
Do people not realize that a BD rip with the soundtrack is already out?
>>142199678
nobody cares. we are just here to shitpost.
>>142199614
If she will point that finger at me again, I will boop her nose or pinch those cheeks.
>>142199678
I got shit internet and can't torrent, otherwise I wouldn't ask.
>>142199614
They have natural hair colors and their upper lips arent involuntarily curled. They also weigh half as much together as their third wave versions would weigh individually.
Also Annett actually does have PTSD instead of faking it for attention.
>>142199614
>feminists
>long hairinb4 Gretel's look in the hospital
>>142199764
And Gretel been an actual communist would despise the SJW as bourgeois shits
>You want equality?
>Good now you are part of the NVA and you are bound to serve on the frontlines
>>142200129
Well the BETA are all for equal opportunity action.
How hard should you bitchslap Irisdina to make her less shit?
>>142200157
Indeed.
Axmann is a hero who knows how to treat girls right.
>>142200202
Enough to not post about it more than once on /a/ per thread.
How come Lise looks like a kid pulling an innocent prank even when she makes an evil face?
>>142200483
She is just a kid, and her personal experiences gave her brain problems.
>>142200260
>you will never be a soldier class
>you will never CHOMP on cute girls
>>142200483
Considering she's just 17 or 18, that's to be expected. Really, most of the SM's are just kids. Iris is the oldest girl and she's just 23.
;_;7
>>142200782
Iris older than Beatrix?
>>142200839
Yes, by a couple of months.
>>142200822
RIP Polandballs ;_;
>>142200883
That's pretty crazy. Guess the makeup and sexy makes Beatrix look older.
>>142200652
>brain problems.
Sounds about right. That poor mentally deranged imouto.
>>142200939
Teen Iris looks like a little bitch.
Which she is.
>>142190823
I wonder why people keep things in backlog if they have no intention of ever really picking up them. I suggest deleting it and seeing what happens later, will your brain forget about it or will you keep thinking about it?
>>142201056
Only because her mother is stasi and influencing her for the worse. She gets better and becomes a genuinely good person though.
>>142200939
Beatrix never looked her age, even as a 13 year old.
>>142200922
>you will never be Walther
>you will never hug Sylwia when she's awake from a nightmare
>you will never have someone as loyal to you
>you will never be with a girl who would only let you touch her
>>142201124
Urge to rape rising.
>>142200822
Quite flexible, I must say.
>>142193485
>mfw i fapped
>>142201206
Rude.
>>142201234
Slutmika liked it anyway. She's just putting on a victim facade so no one could deduce what a shameless slut she is..
>>142201206
When is the Beato one due?
>>142201155
Why even live?
>>142201206
Anyone have the previous version as well?
>>142201155
Why exactly does she like Walther so much?
>>142201299
>>142201324
I wish someone would give this a nice color treatment.
>>142201113
>kills Jurgen
>genuinely good person
>>142201124
>Iris sighed and continued to talk.
>"She's mature and very beautiful. You won't even think she's my age."
>"So her name is...?"
>"Why do you want to know so badly, big brother?"
>"Oh? So I need a reason, right?"
>Iris was looking at me with the same kind of look a person might give to a pile of trash.
Iris also describes her as being as beautiful as a demon (or succubut), so it's pretty canon that Beatrix was always glamorous. Saying that, there are still plenty of scenes where she looks her age, particularly when surprised or happy.
>>142201086
It's called "lying to myself"
It's nice to think that one day I'll have my life together and I'll be able to go all those things I am putting off. Deleting things is tantamount to admitting that I'm a failure.
>>142201279
Give it atleast June 7 or so. I don't have a credit card, the money is still being verified and the pose being decided.
>>142201374
I'm at talks with the artist to give it a proper color job, it's just as a matter of trust I'd rather not press them for it, not when I've paid.
>>142201479
Such beautiful eyes.
I would probably creep Lise out if I stared at them long enough, though.
>>142201511
>what? Is there something on my face?
>what are you looking at?
>>142201677
Born for love, made for hugs.
>>142179670
What would you have to do to make Beato give you this look?
>>142202911
Reenact the event of Irisdina killing Jurgen.
I wear the wig.
>>142202911
Anything!
>>142201511
>>142201677
>>142202522
>>142202911
Nice string of dubs there.
>>142201301
Because Walter is a genuinely good man who loves her.
>>142201197
If by rape you mean cuddle with.
>>142205552
How much tall is Theo?
>>142205753
~15cm?
>>142205753
Around 400 horizontal lines
>>142205753
This is probably a more accurate height comparison. Theo isn't that much taller than Iris or Beatrix.
>>142205913
Not really. Walter should be way taller, and Katia way shorter if we're going off of the VN.
>>142205913
where is Lise?
>>142206242
She's a spoiler character.
>>142206242
That picture is spoiler free. Otherwise poor Inghild wouldn't appear.
>>142175736
Fucking love this part. God feels great to reread this baby.
>>142206883
Takahashi's dad was an Indian?
Bunta looked like a regular old grumpy sallaryman with a quirky hobby to me.
>>142205913
>Pham is shorter than Gretel
>>142206975
Gretel's Vietnemese. She should realistically be way shorter then the majority of the cast.
>>142191050
Gives me woto tears. God forbid 1121 platoon met the same fate as 207B squad.
Well Yanks, do keep the thread alive for some eight hours.
Thank you.
>>142206932
No anon, it is a reference to Takahashi from Initial D and his dream.
Also I totally forgot Meiya did this. Fucking cute.
>>142206932
>>142207509
Fuck, never mind. Miss read your post
>>142207020
You need to read what you write before you hit "post."
>>142207695
what did she do with the sumika?
Inia, Yui and Cryska are my waifus.
>>142207880
Nothing much, just typical stasi stuff. Knocking on her door and running away, entering her home without a warrant and moving things around. Leaving presents in her sock drawer, stealing from her refrigerator. Stasi stuff.
>>142208216
but what is she doing on her window? is she trying to seduce takeru?
>>142208085
HAving ded waifus, you make me sick.
>>142208592
They are alive in my heart. After all, save in the name of true love.
reminder that Takeru is a fucking WAR GOD OF STEEL behind a TSF and every other so called pilot in Alternative is a complete shit tier scrub next to him
>>142208382
>Who are you.. where's Sumika!?
>I don't know
>You DO know! I see it in your eyes, where is she?
>Making new friends maybe, perhaps enjoying the company of my acquaintances, you worry too much.
>You.. If you hurt her, I'll..
>Ara.. so defensive aren't we? Perhaps there is something you wouldn't want her telling us about? Something about you?
>I don't even know what you're talking about, where the hell did you even come from? I'm so confused.
>Noted. I'll be right over so we can have a little chat and you can tell me all about who you are.
>I'm not the suspicious one here!
>>142208216
You think she does any of this to Theo or Iris?
>>142197363
It's really not a bad show at all. Certainly much more rewatchable than the SM anime. I certainly loved it. I know people don't like some of the fanservice, but even there you had interesting glimpses into characters and motivations and undercurrents, so there was a reason to watch it honestly.
>>142198204
To be honest, the world overall at that point in time isn't in 'world crusade' mode. The BETA are for the most part contained at the choke points. Hell, you can see that in that they felt confident enough to have the UN bring in units for field tests at Kamchatka. Pretty much everyone thought it'd be a simple operation. I think only Stella had a bad premonition about that operation.
Having a fake-vacation at Yukon would have been pretty funny though.
>>142199170
She's too moe because it provides contrast for...later.
>>142202911
I think the real question should be "what would you do if she gave you that look".
>>142209134
>She's too moe because it provides contrast for...later.
Whatever could you mean.
>>142193485
You feel it, don't you?
>>142199614
Take that back! At least in this world, we can be happy there are no virulent pathologies and ideologies like SJWs and feminism and the like.
Also, Anette's short hair is actually cute on her. And Gretel doesn't have problem glasses, she actually has thick ones for the reason old people had them - they don't break, and she does tons of paperwork. She wouldn't know the meaning of fashion or style if you bopped her on the head with a hair straightner.
>>142199734She'd cutely pout, so do it!
>>142199542
Bless you.
>>142208664
well said
>>142209239
>>142209378
Those glasses look cute on her, and if they are good enough for Honecker, they are good enough Gretel
Her superior officer had the same glasses too
>>142209378
Gretel wears birth control goggles because she's a low level commissar in a communist shithole. She can't get cute glasses.
>>142209560
Wrong. Those glasses are cute and she is cute too
>>142209506
>Onii-chan, the bad man is being mean again make him go away
>>142209604
she looks like a proto-hipster with those glasses
>>142209678
Commissars are the literal definition of proto hipsters.
>>142209553I normally like glasses, but I think they look super disgusting on her.
Her glassesless ponytail look is cute as fuck.
>>142209560
That is true as well.
>>142198959
Holy crap, Katia is going ballistic from bullying prevention panic. Even Anette is getting bullied and bullying a bit, isn't she?
>>142209604
It's mandatory for gathering information to use for future Laserjagd operations.
>>142209728
>>142209775
It's what commie leaders used
see Honecker, Jaruzelski and Allende for example
>>142209796Even if the ponytail looks good on her, she looks perfect with glasses
>>142209847
Laser class Gretel is 2cute4me
Holding hands with Gretel!
>>142208382
>is she trying to seduce takeru?
She'd have a pretty easy time of that.
>>142210202
10/10
>>142210129
Gretel is wearing nothing but her collar and panting with her tongue rolled out as we drive across the open desert.
>>142210339
Long time no see
>>142210202
So if
>Laser = Gretel
>Fort = Beatrix
>Destroyer = Theo
what would the other BETA be?
>Tank =
>Warrior =
>Soldier =
>Grappler =
>Magnus Lux =
>Carrier/Digger =
>Laser Fort =
>Superior =
>>142210447
Grappler should totally be Inghild.
Magnus Lux should be Sylwia, since her hair obscures her other eye.
Axmann should be the Superior, becausetwizzlersand rape go well together.
>>142210447
>>Tank = Walter
>>Warrior = Katia
>>Soldier = Lise
>>Grappler = Annete
>>Magnus Lux = Sylwia
>>Carrier/Digger = Pham
>>Laser Fort = Iris
>>Superior = Jurgen
>>142182354
The anime really sexed her up. I wonder if VN Lise would have successfully seduced Theo to her side if she looked like that.
Weaponized moé
>>142210988
>Weaponized moé
That's more Ursula's thing.
>>142211069
Where the fuck did he get a pickaxe from? Why does he have a pickaxe? I can't imagine them being very common among Berliners.
>>142211115
Why not? It is a pretty run- of-the-mill tool to have.
>>142211069
>>142210988
>Ursula: Politicized moe
>Lise: Weaponized moe
>>142211115
Road/Railroad maintenanceEven I have an pickaxe in my office
>>142210951
*LN Lise. VNs haven't gotten that far in the story yet. There will most likely be a choice for which way Theo goes, but whether it changes things greatly or is inconsequential to the overall flow like the anime is to be seen.
>>142211495
Gotta defer gratification. Protect Lise, then fug Lise. NotNot the other way around
