>Hyouka is Bakemonogatari done right
Do you agree with this statement?
>>142168140
It's not even "done right", whatever it was trying to do.
>>142168140
No? Hyouka is a masterpiece but Bake is quite good too.
6/10 bait OP.
>>142168140
Yeah Hyouka is more consistent and imaginative with its visual directing but that doesn't discount Bakemonogatari for it's own merit in that department
Also Takemoto worked with Shinbo
One question: anyone know what takemono will be working on?
>>142168140
>half the shots are just closeups of characters' faces
Hyouka really was boring
No. Hyouka is Bakemonogatari but with a higher budget but not interesting
>>142168616
Half the shots in bake were also closeups so it does make sense.
>>142168140
Hyouka is hot garbage
2/10 for making me reply
>>142168726
I don't think you've ever watched it.
>>142168877
I watched it when it was airing crai moar faget.
>>142168911
Prove it.
>>142168939
Only Kyoanus fanboys think Hyouka is a good show. It has nice visuals but the story and characters are insufferable.
>>142168939
Please do not feed the trolls.
>>142168450
>masterpiece
You guys love to abuse that word right?
>>142169293
If Hyouka isn't one it is very close.
>>142169034
You can't separate the visuals from the story and characters you idiot. Hyouka is one of the anime that does visual storytelling right.
>>142168561
Euphonium S2
>>142169435
too bad the story's bad
Since it's a hyouka thread can anyone explain me why the short hair girl was tsundere for the MC?
>>142169408
Evangelion is a masterpiece, hyouka isn't.
>>142169536
because she liked him but didn't want to be lame about it
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[851F7EB4].mkv_snapshot_08.48_[2016.05.29_12.38.29].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rIW2dq2.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[851F7EB4].mkv_snapshot_08.48_[2016.05.29_12.38.29].jpg")
>>142169544
>>>/v/
>>142169536
There was no dere there, just tsun.
It's not similar in any way other than it being dialogue focused.
I assume you're talking about the visuals but the cinematography and artstyle isn't even fucking close.
>>142169585
Smug all you want, you know I'm right.
>>142169586
But why?
>>142169482
Can't believe people on /a/ are this film illiterate.
>>142169034
Most Hyoukafags tend to have a relatively lukewarm opinion of Kyoani's other shows.
>>142169648
Enlighten us.
>>142169674
Interesting, it wasn't anything extraordinary, the animation was great but the story wasn't anything to call home.
>>142168140
Bakemonogatari is Bakemonogatari done wrong.
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_08_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[873A71DA].mkv_snapshot_10.32_[2016.05.29_16.39.21].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JDAPEwO.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_08_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[873A71DA].mkv_snapshot_10.32_[2016.05.29_16.39.21].jpg")
>>142169593
>MCs solve peoples' issues
>Episodic/Arc nature
>Dialogue intensive
>Similar directing style
>Main plotline gets resolved in the first few episodes(Monogatari-Ep12/Hyouka-Ep5)
>The rest of the series are just main characters bonding or focusing on side characters, while still having the plotline of the week(s) formula
The only diference is that Hyouka isn't a harem, and it lacks headtilts and bad animation.
>>142169899
>Main plotline gets resolved
>Monogatari
what
The MC manages to be even more unlikeable somehow
>>142169899
>Hyouka isn't a harem
>implying Bake is
How the fuck are people still saying monogats right is a harem?
>there are people who think Hyouka is a good anime
>>142170214
Just because MC already has a gf doesn't mean it stops being a harem. Everyone still wants his dick and he's happy to fool around with them.
>>142170214
Because Araragi loves Gahara and only her fagot. Maybe you should watch it again.
>>142170288
>Crab gets it
>Bat will get it
>Cat wants it but screws up and gets friend zoned
>Snake doesn't even really want it
>Monkey is a lesbian
>Snail is a ghost
Yeah, wouldn't personally say it is.
>>142170536
Keep deluding yourself
>Monkey is a lesbian
And has said she's fine if it's Araragi, have you even watched the show?
>>142170588
Yeah, pretty sure that's just the joke between her and him
>>142170588
She respects him she only says those things to mess with him.
Monogatari is a harem with visuals influenced by the french new wave and Hyouka is more eastern european if anything
>>142170665
What an easy way to dismiss solid proof that it gatari is in fact a harem. Everything that doesn't fit what you want it to be is a joke. I'm guessing the scene that almost led Araragi to fuck Karen was also just a prank bro.
>two things with heavily stylized visual direction
>better call one the better version of the other
Citizen Kane is Inception done right
![[HorribleSubs] Owarimonogatari - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_19.14_[2015.12.19_15.25.40].png](https://i.imgur.com/AfySjwZ.png "[HorribleSubs] Owarimonogatari - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_19.14_[2015.12.19_15.25.40].png")
>>142170289
>Araragi loves Gahara and only her
>>142170846
2001 is Interstellar done right
>>142170823
Don't put words in other people's mouths,just toothbrushes.
That's more like half wanting to fuck and half being the best way he can think to actually be nice to his sisters. At least that's how I saw it.
>>142170896
This only further validates my claim
>>142170896
sure wish I could watch Kizu
>>142170773
French cinema is the best thing that ever came out of that nation. Fucking adore French movies.
Is Hyouka actually good? I dropped it while it was airing because it felt like Kyoanus being their usual pandering selves.
>>142168140
Not at all, they're pretty different and Bakemonogatari is actually a masterpiece.
>>142171030
How does Ougi- who is basically Black Araragi- saying that Seishirou is Araragi's romantic rival mean that he only loves Crab?
>>142171074
It's top tier as fuck. It's weird cause if you asked me to list my favorite films I probably wouldn't name many french ones, but if you asked me to name my favorite directors it's basically half frogs.
>>142171129
Depends on what you expect going in. You'll be disappointed if you go in looking for good mysteries. It's more about someone dealing with their life becoming more interesting than they want it to be.
>>142171129
What pandering did Hyouka have exactly?
>>142171129
I hear it looks amazing, but no one ever seems to say much about its story
>>142169638
Oreki saved a girl in middle school but did it by being an ass. Only the girl and satoshi knows the whole truth
>>142171250
Chitanda's uncle and the movie mysteries were very good and solid though.
>>142169544
Evangelion is the farthest thing from a masterpiece there is. It's a bunch of great stuff thrown into a pot with a lot of bad stuff, then mixed with very varied quality of execution, and the result is a very interesting to analyse, but inherently flawed, mess.
>>142171219
>tfw Jaques Rivette died 4 months ago
>>142171157
Shinobu and Araragi have a bond that goes beyond romantic feelings. Ougi is just pressuring him to fight for her since he is weak.
>>142168140
Kyoani is better at being Shaft than Shaft
There's no appeal to Shaft over Kyoani anymore
>>142169899
>Main plotline gets resolved in the first few episodes(Monogatari-Ep12/Hyouka-Ep5)
Oreki stil didn't know if a rose-colored life is worth pursuing until episode 22, my friend
>>142171350
Fuck man don't remind meI think I might actually get really emotional when Jean-Luc Godard goes
>>142170288
Bakemonogatari uses elements of harem, largely in parody, but it isn't a harem anime itself.
Calle Bake a harem is like calling Evangelion a highschool drama. The characters are in highschool, and it has drama. But it's still so much more and so much different than a highschool drama.
>>142171297
You don't seem to understand what is a masterpiece, let me guess, you're going to say it's pretentious too.
>>142171391
That's just his inner struggle, the main plot line was Chitanda's uncle/hyouka
>>142171376
>this is what Kyoanus fans actually believe
>>142171410
Just remember that he'll leave an amazing legacy behind. He's still directing, isn't he?
>>142171427
Finally someone with sense on this board.
>>142171375
The bond beyond romantic feelings is mostly bluster and Araragi already fought for her before Ougi even existed. Before that, Ougi might lie about other things, but it doesn't lie about Araragi's feelings. That's basically its role: to reveal the feelings that Araragi has but is trying to suppress.
How many people fall asleep watching bake?
What about hyoka?
>>142171427
Has the author ever said those harem elements in monogatari were just a prank bro?
>>142171297
>very varied quality of execution
Pretty much all of NGE is executed fabulously on a technical level.
>>142171491
I remember hearing that he's supposedly working on his final FINAL film, though that was at least a year ago.
>>142171591
why would he need to
>>142171603
Pretty much.
Whatever you think of Eva's story or themes or characters or the production of it, you'd be straight up wrong if you tried to imply that in terms of cinematography and sound design it isn't among the best anime (hell, one of the best animated works period) to date.
>>142168140
No because Hyouka and Bake have different premises. They're both very good but you can't compare every aspect.
>>142171765
Yes you can one is objectively good and the other is a snooze fest.
>>142171612
>Bakemonogatari is not a harem I swear
>But what about X, Y and Z
>lol it's just a parody bro
>>142171800
Bake wasn't a snoozefest, maybe the snail arc but everything else was interesting enough.
>>142171860
I was obviously talking about Hyouka nigger
>>142171915
But Hyouka is objectively good.
>>142171603
This guy gets it.
This guy 100% gets it.
>>142171440
No. Why would I say it's interesting to analyse, if I thought it was pretentious? The closest thing to that opinion I have is thinking that the scenes with Asuka walking in on her mother's suicide were too edgy and tryhard. A more subtle approach would've been more effective for me. But even then, that's a minor nitpick on my part.
The flaws with Evangelion are it's poor pacing in a lot of places, some of the filler episodes feeling very shallow and unnecessary, the impact the production problems had on the overall presentation, and the fact that the story had no real explanation or pay off. By the end of the series and EoE, we still don't know what the angels really were or their motivation, who's alive and who's not, what resolution characters like Asuka and Ritsuko xame to regarding their pasts, etc. You can claim that these things were left open to interpretation purposefully, and I'd partially agree with you, but regardless, they disqualify Eva from being a "masterpiece". A masterpiece would be something that it perfect, and something that is perfect would have perfect pacing, meaning and development throughout all of its episodes, perfect presentation, and properly wrap up its story and character arcs. Which Eva does not have.
>>142171934
Keep telling yourself that it's not going to make it true.
>>142171945
>not a gif
>>142171945
Stop samefagging no one cares about EVA here, go back to /v/.
>>142168140
OP, I really don't approve of what you've done here.
>>142171800
>>142171915
>>142171981
what about Hyouka made you dislike it so much? I recently finished it and thought it was very good
>>142171966
>A masterpiece would be something that it perfect
That's not a masterpiece in fact a masterpiece can have all of this elements.
>and the result is a very interesting to analyse,
This is a masterpiece aspect.
>>142172070
I'll give you a hint.
>I recently finished it
He didn't.
>>142172070
The characters are bland and uninteresting the only good characters are the side characters. Every mystery is boring and undeveloped. Visually it's pretty damn good but every other aspect of the show falls short. It's an ok show but not a good one.
>>142172247
Just saying the characters are bland and uninteresting doesn't really validates your opinion.
>>142172285
>Just saying the characters are bland and uninteresting doesn't really validates your opinion.
uh
>>142172247
I didn't think the characters were bland, not a lot of development, sure but it was enough to fulfill the premise of the show and the mysteries weren't spectacular but I thought they were well done for what they were
>>142168140
Considering both of them are too boring to finish, but Hyouka is the one with better animation, I'd say that's right.
>>142172285
I knew Hyouka's fanbase was braindead but Jesus Christ
>>142172371
That's why I said they it was an ok show it doesn't deserve the amount of praise it gets.
>>142172079
If it isn't perferct, especially if it's as flawed and mixed as Eva is, then you shouldn't be calling it a masterpiece. Eva is something which is very unique, both in its concepts and eventual presentation, but it is so precisely because it is simultaniously genius and very flawed.
> >and the result is a very interesting to analyse,
>This is a masterpiece aspect.
Bullshit. The Room is very interesting to analyse, learning about the kooky antics of Tommy Wiseau during production, the original vision he had for the project, and trying to piece together how it all ended up the way it did is a fucking riot. But, as is generally accepted, The Room is a terrible movie. How interesting something ends up being to think about does not indicate the quality of the thing itself.
>>142172247
>The characters are bland and uninteresting the only good characters are the side characters. Every mystery is boring and undeveloped. Visually it's pretty damn good but every other aspect of the show falls short.
Help me lads I can't stop taking screenshots of Mayaka.
>>142172377
Still not a valid opinion.
>>142172439
You're even worse than the sakugafags
>>142172418
Thise are valid points nigger
>>142172401
Sure, people overhype everything, I don't know how much praise it got when it aired but I'd probably give it more praise than you would, going by that statement.
I thought kyoukai no kanata was supposed to be kyoani's bootleg version of monogatari, what happened?
>>142172509
>what happened?
KyoAnus LN brand.
>>142172509
It was garbage like the majority of shows kyoani puts out.
>>142172403
But then we would be arguing about what a masterpiece is, and a masterpiece can be flawed, contrary of what you said, i think that by definition it can be called a masterpiece.
>>142172509
IRC (/a/) shitposting not strong enough to fool /a/
>>142172509
Hyouka is more popular which means it's easier for people to reply.
>>142172488
Declaring an opinion is not an argument.
>>142172692
Actually, yes it is.
The matter is whether or not the points made were valid.
>>142172692
>characters
>plot
Two things that are essential in a story that Hyouka fucked up.
Stay mad Kyoanus lover.
>>142172600
Then you're using the term masterpiece way too liberally. Under that definition, tons of things could be a masterpiece, and you could just call anything you like a masterpiece. There should be a set standard for what a masterpiece is, and that, for me, should be that it does everything it initially set out to do perfectly. Eva sets up its story, it starts giving characters their own development arcs, but then it just doesn't conclude those. Even discounting everything else, that alone should make it not a masterpiece.
>>142172733
Still waiting for an argument.
>>142172733
I also fail to see how stating an opinion is somehow an argument.
Ok you don't like the characters for being boring and uninteresting(opinion), but how are they boring and uninteresting(argument)?
>>142172779
I would argue the burden of proof is on you, as bland and uninteresting is the default position of a character.
>>142172779
I'm not him.
Also I haven't watched Hyouka, so I can't make an argument. I'm just watching the one between you two.
However, I will say that you're making yourself look pretty bad by continuously saying that any critique on the show "is not an argument".
>>142172509
Isin didn't write it
hyouka is such shit and the spamming kyoanus licking faggot who makes all of these pseuo-intellectual fedora tipping threads needs to be permabanned
http://desustorage.org/a/search/image/GVwUuD8G-6IYJCzLSBaqSA/
>>142172945
>Niwaka Bait
Why isn't this the free space?
>>142172983
they might as well all be free spaces
>>142172945
That could be just be "Anime Bingo". None of those are exclusive in any way to KyoAni.
>>142172772
Again, the example you used, The room, is it a masterpiece? Is hyouka a masterpiece? What defines a masterpiece? is it perfection? execution, ? As a said before it is another debate and i do think that eva can be called like that, you said : TO ME A MASTERPIECE IS ... then it is just standarts you made yourself and not actual definition.
>>142172945
>forced animation
>>142172945
SHAFTfags can't even put a bit of work into their bait images.
>>142172945
All of those are free spaces. Shit game
>>142172838
>here is an opinion I pulled out of my ass
>expecting me to treat your assertions like an argument
I implore you, please submit an argument. How could there be an intelligent debate without an argument, a thesis, premise, etc.
Everyone on /a/ should refuse to interact with people who express opinions as if they are an argument.
The burden to produce an argument is on the first poster. If he manages to come up with examples and a real argument, he is worth discussing with.
Otherwise, it is a low quality post deserving of low quality replies.
N O T A N A R G U M E N T
>>142173014
I think you should watch more anime
>>142173011
I guess some of them. But what's "fetus people" and what do you mean by "fake harem"?
>>142173058
>kyoanus lickers think anyone who hates their overrated hack studio is a SHAFTfag
other than hidamari sketch and madoka they haven't put out anything decent
i will say though that having 2 good series is better than kyoanus having 0 good series
>>142173109
>*tips fedora
>>142173164
Boring bait, but here's your reply to make you feel better.
>>142173164
>overrated hack studio
I'm sorry your favorite studio isn't as popular.
>>142173167
Not an argument.
>>142173124
I appreciate the token reply and the (You) it gave me, but that makes no sense. Clearly only someone who hasn't watched much anime outside of KyoAni stuff would believe that all those things are exclusive to KyoAni.
>>142173216
>implying i have a favorite studio
i'm not a blind fanboy like you kyoanus lickers
i'm able to objectively watch and give an unbiased opinion on any series made by any studio, unlike loyal kyoani fags who do all they can to defend that terrible studio to their death day in and day out
>>142168140
Explain?
>>142169034
I completely agree for kyoani shows like KnK and myriad colors but I just finished Hyouka last week and I liked it.
>>142173296
>unbiased opinion
>has a biased hatred towards KyoAni
Sure thing buddy.
![[Sephirotic] Evangelion - 01 [MULTI][BD 1080p 8bits 5.1 AAC][6B1607E9].mkv_snapshot_01.38_[2016.05.24_17.15.27].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TNNMus3.jpg "[Sephirotic] Evangelion - 01 [MULTI][BD 1080p 8bits 5.1 AAC][6B1607E9].mkv_snapshot_01.38_[2016.05.24_17.15.27].jpg")
>>142172772
I'd disagree with that. Even if something is inherently flawed (and you could argue forever about how much of Evangelion is supposed to be up to interpretation, or was due to studio meddling, or was "stylistic" or what have you) that doesn't preclude it from being a masterpiece as long as what is left is impressive enough, influential enough and artistic enough to leave it as a lasting staple of the medium.
Take The Thief and the Cobbler for example - that movie was never even finished, yet what we do have salvaged of it is widely considered an animation masterpiece because of the level of detail and care that went into it. If something can stand out in spite of such flaws (and perhaps in some cases even because of them) that makes it all the more impressive.
>>142173296
What exactly is this image trying to prove anyway?
>>142173296
I don't like half the series KyoAni produce, I think some of them are actually absolute trash. But I can accept objectively that KyoAni's quality of animation exhibits the most skill out of any studio's current work on TV.
>>142173296
If anything, you should at the very least have a bias for capitalization and punctuation.
>>142173340
is it biased to call a spade a spade? no.
just as well, it is not biased to call a shitty kyoani series a shitty kyoani series.
it's not my fault they haven't made a single good series. it's theirs.
if the so-called "geniuses" at kyoani feel like putting forth the effort into making an engaging series with strong writing and likable characters rather than just over-animating every scene and slapping post-production filters over every single frame to try and make up for their weak storytelling, then i'll probably give that series a good review.
until then though, the only thing coming close to decent made by them will be nichijou.
>>142173518
They haven't made a single good series in your biased opinion though.
>>142173221
>*unsheathes katana*
>>142173489
>>142173361
That is what i was trying to tell him, i couldnt find better words for it. Thank you.
>>142173569
>a typo
Don't flatter yourself, friend.
There's a difference between a typo, and simply typing like a 16 year old, posting from his phone.
>>142173706
>phones don't have autocorrect
>>142173762
I wouldn't know. I don't post from mine.
>>142173398
>exhibits the most skill
More like time. Which they spend double or more on one work than other studios do.
>>142173361
Like the other guy said and you both said, we're just arguing semantics and entirely subjective opinions at this point, but
>If something can stand out in spite of such flaws (and perhaps in some cases even because of them) that makes it all the more impressive.
I don't agree. I think Eva's flaws simply make it less impressive, and bc of that, the fact that it stands out is a case of overhype syndrome. If Anno had managed to use his genius skills of direction to create a perfect series despite the hell Eva's production went through, that'd make it impressive, possibly the most impressive thing in anime, or even animation on a whole. But instead, Eva was overwhelmed and became what you would expect from such a troubled project, which is far less impressive to me.
>>142173585
Someone should pitch Keit-ai to Kyoani and see what they can make of it.
No, Hyouka is completely different than Bakemonogatari.
>>142173781
Not him but I'm posting from my phone my PC is broken and I don't have any money fuck the haters
>>142173845
[citation needed]
>>142173845
So you're saying that they're willing to put far more time and effort into their projects than any other studio? In a similar way to how Michelangelo spent a full 3 years creating David, bc he intended it promote himself as the greatest artist of the Renaissance? I thought you were trying to attack KyoAni, not compliment them.
>>142173897
>If Anno had managed to use his genius skills of direction to create a perfect series despite the hell Eva's production went through
I think he came very close.
For all the shit the last two episodes get I thought they were excellent and prefer them to the flashy movie replacement.
>>142172439
She's not real and never will be anon
Also those last few screencaps are kinda random
>>142173897
As you said we are discussing subjective things at this point. But you seem to be fixated on evangelion being flawed, i do not think that evangelion is a masterpiece because of its flaws, and i do not think that hype alone can last 22 years, as i said before the debate goes for what a masterpiece really is, and not if eva is masterpiece because by definition it is one.
>>142174149
I'm not who you were responding to. My point was just that it's pointless to compare them because they work completely differently than other studios. You can't make a comparison of skill when the environments are different.
>>142174455
Since Kyoani isn't an actual artist I think one could argue that the ability to properly schedule their workload is an exhibition of skill. Certainly something a lot of shows these days have problems with.
>>142174368
We're really entering the subjective zone here, but: All definitions are standards set by someone. People today do not use the word masterpiece like they did 5 years ago, and they won't be using it the same 5 years from now. Even now, people from different places with different subcultures will use the word masterpiece differently. You can say "by definition" and pull up an online dictionary, but the entry for masterpiece in that dictionary was written by someone according to their own standard, or if they wrote it according to a source written by someone else, according to that person's standard. If we go back to the origin point, the term "masterpiece" is for use in describing art, which is something entirely subjective. Using "by definition" as a justification is ultimately meaningless when it comes to this.
>>142171250
The mysteries are plenty interesting though. They are logically stimulating and just as dramatic as they need to be for a high school setting. Hyouka is only "boring" if you come in expecting something other than what it sells itself as: a laid-back show about high school students solving mysteries in and around their school.
>>142174696
This is where I wanted to get at. So what is your reason for saying that eva is not a masterpiece rather than your own subjective standarts. The same goes for me and I said before this is the point of the debate.
>>142174914
There is none. We can only judge things according to our own subjective standards. I think your subjective standard is too liberal. But I can only judge your standards by my own standards which are themself subjective. When discussing art, we are always speaking in terms of subjectivity.
>>142174743
Nah the world bends in favor of MC.
>>142175021
Fine then we reach a conclusion, my subjective standarts about why eva is masterpiece is the impact it had and keep on having on people, the analysis it had, the person who made it, and so on, it is vague i know but i do not have words to describe it in english because it is not my mothertongue.
And i think that your definition is too close minded, perfection means masterpiece to you and i disagree with you.
>>142175021
>We can only judge things according to our own subjective standards.
Not the guy you're responding to, but this is post-dadaist bullshit. You can't necessarily judge the technical skill or intellectual giftedness of a work's creator, but the work itself can be judged by how well it exhibits those qualities.
>>142175176
Not him but I don't see how. Granted I'm still in episode 12 but so far the two major mysteries(hyouka and movie), had him rely on third parties to actually solve the mystery completelyTeacher revealing what actually happened to Chitanda's uncle. Oreki's sister and Fuyumi revealing the actual reason behind the unfinished script in an instant messaging conversation.
The rest of the small mysteries were all pretty well executed as well, specially the two sister lolis one.
>>142175405
That was a really nice little episode.
>>142175176
Please. He's wrong on several occasions and other times relies on the testimony of others.
>>142175463
>lolis
I see you are a men of culture as well.
>>142175463
>>142175405
Which sister do you side with?
>>142175463
I almost cried to be honest.
>>142175523
Like when the sister brought the so famous doujini that not even the members of the club has it?
>>142175270
Sometimes, being close minded is a good thing. Having stricter standards of things means that you will end up with a more negative opinion on things that don't meet your standards, and a more positive opinion on things that do. This allows you to criticise and praise things way more, and thus encourages a higher level of public discussion. If we are allowed to call anything we like a masterpiece based on just vague notions, then we would all simply call the things we like masterpieces and be done with the matter. No room for criticism or selection of things we think are truly, truly great. For example, imagine if I had just agreed with you that Eva was a masterpiece at the very start. This argument would have never happened, and at least four people would not have been able to express their opinions. Discussion in general would just be a lot more boring.
>"I think X is a masterpiece bc of [vague reason here]."
>"Okay, I see where you're coming from."
>conversation ends, no criticism or true praise is given
I guess a mix of liberal thought and close minded thought is required, for quality discussion to happen. It's a good thing people can never agree on anything.
>>142175282
Not really. Even if we reach a consensus on what's good or bad in terms of exhibiting qualities, someone else can always come along and just tell us that the opposite is true. And neither of us would have any kind of solid evidence that we are right.
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_12_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[53E6E3C0].mkv_snapshot_00.49_[2016.05.29_22.18.18].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KPY1lAf.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_12_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[53E6E3C0].mkv_snapshot_00.49_[2016.05.29_22.18.18].jpg")
What a gay room, is Satoshi a gay man?
>>142173221
>And neither of us would have any kind of solid evidence that we are right.
Only if you think the consensus was formed arbitrarily. Which I think is silly. If a consensus forms, it forms for a reason.
>>142175914
I think his room isn't gay but why so many bags? Mayaka's room is nice too.
>>142175914
he's a bag salesman
I want to invade Mayaka's room and refuse to leave.
Hyouka is more focused, and tighter. Monogatari is more ambitious and, in a strict sense, has more going on.
Both are good, for different reasons. It's worth noting however, that I prefer the Monogatari novels to the anime, but I think for Hyouka I'm about equal on them.
>>142176018
That's just rude.
>>142175982
Meant for >>142175849
>>142176075
Damn I just love KyoAni's petite girls, there's that height difference thing but also especially when they're shown as more cheery or noisy more than anyone else
>>142175849
Ok we reach a conclusion then, but the fact that I like evangelion and i think that it fit the definition of masterpiece, does not make my opinion biased someone can hate evangelion but think it is a masterpiece, and viceversa, i think you are being too biased because of your dislike of the series and you are overstimating it.
>>142176194
You wouldn't happen to have the gif of her pouting would you? Always melts my heart.
>>142176194
>>142175982
>If a consensus forms, it forms for a reason.
Then why do several different consensuses always form in several different sub-cultures? The consensus amoung circles on Tumblr is that gender is a construct conceived by the evil males who run the partriarchy that controls everything. The consensus amoung circles on 4chan is that gender is a natural indicator of what lives people should lead to be happy; men should work, women should raise kids, etc. The consensus amoung circles on Reddit is that gender is natural and determines some things, but society has forced people into roles according to it, and the rules regarding those roles should be more lax in a modern age. All can argue for days about which is right, none will ever convince the others.
>>142176251
>>142176194
Great taste, fampai.
>>142176338
Look at her a huffin' and a puffin' I just wanna pick her up and carry her around all day
>>142176225
I'm not accusing you of being bias, I'm just saying that your standard leaves room for bias, and that it'd be a bad thing if it was shared by everyone. But atb the same time, it'd be a bad thing if everyone shared any standard. People having different standards allows for better discussion.
>>142176313
All of those consensuses formed for different reasons. They still formed for reasons though. One could argue the legitimacy of said reasons, but to argue those reasons are wholly subjective or arbitrary is false.
>>142176493
The reasons they formed is because of the subjective opinions and experiences of the people who formed them. If they formed bc they saw an objective truth, then everyone would see this objective truth and there wouldn't be different consensuses at all, everyone would agree.
Ojou-sama: Mugi, Dekomori, Reina PW, Midori Euph, Latifa. Girls who are of higher social status or wealth from other characters, doesn't matter much how they behave
Pocket girls: Azusa, Shindou Ai, Mayaka, Midori Euph. Just shorter than average for their age. Also, I don't know whether that's official or not, but I once saw a comparison chart among Hyouka characters and apparently Mayaka is flatter than even the lolis.
Anyone have some other characters to add? Gonna make a quick compilation like this in a while
>>142176609
Being subjective doesn't mean the idea is baseless or arbitrary. You can still coherently justify a subjective idea.
>>142176444
>I am not saying that you are being biased, but you are being biased.
I think evangelion has stupid fans but it also has fans that understands and discuss its glory, you having a contrary opinion, saying like you do not like it, it is fine, but just puting the series at an irrelevant level on its media would be a mistake on your part, it has a reawon the series iw discuss trough the times, so lets change the discussion, about facyial aspects, not subjective that would make it, one of the most influencial anime of all time.
>>142176738
Yes. I agree. But your point was that works can be judged by how well they exhibit qualities. If everyone has a different subjective opinion on what it means to exhibit a quality well, then it doesn't matter if their opinions are backed up, they are still subjective, making the discussion overall subjective. Which was my point. All discussion of art is subjective.
>>142176923
Fair enough. I agree with that but don't really think it's important.
Idk lol
>>142176873
Shit i can not write well on this cheap and small shitty cellphone god damm it.
So many background waifus and husbandos.
>>142176980
Like that's just your subjective interpretation maaan.
>>142177126
I like shows like this, K-On!, Eupho and so on which have fully profiled background characters despite them lacking real roles in the story. Makes everything come alive, adds a lot of personality.
>>142176873
>>142177033
Don't worry, I got what you meant. And again, I wasn't calling you bias, just saying that such a liberal standard could let other people be bias. Also
>saying like you do not like it
No, I do like Eva. It has a lot of great things going for it, including some of the best visual and sound direction ever seen in anime, a cast of layered, complex characters, and absolutely fantastic design, regarding everything from the characters, mechs, angels, to even the building structures and scenery. I just think that it isn't perfect and shouldn't be above criticism, if you know what I mean. I believe that there are too many people blinded by all that it does well, and then refuse to accept that it also does some things poorly. That's what I meant by "overhype syndrome".
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1920x1080_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[AFAEB072].mkv_snapshot_22.27_[2015.04.04_15.17.52].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HPVOZ36.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1920x1080_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[AFAEB072].mkv_snapshot_22.27_[2015.04.04_15.17.52].jpg")
I found it difficult to watch alone and never got very many episodes in.
In the past couples of days I've watched the first five episodes with company and have been very impressed, especially with the conclusion to the Hyouka mystery.
It came across as a weaker series when I was unwilling to invest energy into thoughtful or attentive viewing, which is appropriate considering Oreki's character. I'm eager to get to the rest.
Anyone else thought the way they animated the camera following the actors in the movie was kind of impressive?
>>142177463
Nothing should be above criticism. But what you might be missing is that people aren't blinded by the good things, they just think that the flaws are unimportant, especially compared to the positives of the series.
>>142177614
It only gets better and better, the last six or so episodes are insanely satisfying. Hope you love it as much as I did.
![[NoobSubs] Monogatari S2 12 (720p Blu-ray 8bit AAC).mp4_snapshot_14.34_[2016.05.30_05.09.26].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RQ13kE5.jpg "[NoobSubs] Monogatari S2 12 (720p Blu-ray 8bit AAC).mp4_snapshot_14.34_[2016.05.30_05.09.26].jpg")
>>142177249
Yeah, bc KyoAni actually put effort into their design and creating a lively, tangible world. Unlike a certain other studio.
>>142177463
Ok i get it, I never thought that evangelion was perfect but i do think it is the pinnacle of its own media, tho i do believe i can be biased on that statement and that is up to debate.
Well goodby i cant write on this shit anymore, it was a nice discussion, just to make thing clear are you an asukafag or a reifag. Beacause i am an asukafag. Goodbye.
>>142168140
How so? They're only similar on the surface level. Hyouka uses mundane mysteries as a backdrop for character exploration and progression while Bakemonogatari is an exploration of various psychological issues and dysfunctional relationships via metaphorical supernatural phenomena.
>>142177706
Depends on the show. Lucky Star for example had gray cutout characters.
>>142177614
Same here. First time I watched it couldn't get past the first 4 episodes or so. I do remember not being in the mood of a dialogue intensive show at the time and I was doing other things while watching it, so I was pretty lost for most of the Hyouka mystery. I'm rewatching it right now and loving it, this is the type of series that requires your complete, undivided attention.
>>142177739
Ha. I'm a Reifag. We're opposites in every way. Bye.
>>142177706
You should note that the amount of people and how they are shown in Bakemonogatari always changes depending on who is the protagonist of the arc. It's a kind of presentation of how they individually perceive the world around them.
Hyouka is simply anime done right.
>>142177689
>the last six or so episodes are insanely satisfying
I've seen many anons express frustration with an inconclusive romance. You don't feel the same?
>>142177706
I think both approaches are valid.
>>142177932
Not me, that's why I think it's the greatest pre-love story ever told
>>142177706
This approach is perfectly legitimate if the story calls for it. Everyone who isn't a speaking role in Penguindrum is a vague outline just as an example, but there are actual narrative reasons for it and it works much better in its favor than if they'd all just been Another Anime Girl 42.
>>142168140
I didn't like Hyouka
I thought Bakemonogatari was pretty ok.
>>142176397
Both she and her sister literally trades and profits in the dead remnants of their species.
>>142177932
No way dude, Oreki actually confessing would have been way out of character. Instead the whole show is summed up perfectly as he finally sees this (literally) rose-coloured pathetic laid out in front of him. The pseudo-confession is less his profession of love but more admittance of a new way of life.
>>142177875
I knew it ! You reifags are so fucking complicated.
>mfw people can actually misunderstand hyouka
>mfw people believe the mysteries were the point of the show
I must be getting memed here
>>142178100
Yeah but she's so little~
>>142178205
I thought the mysteries were solid.
>>142178205
The mysteries were great. Fuck your "point"
>>142178241
>>142178277
I didn't call the mysteries bad, guys. What the hell?
>>142168140
Hyouka made me fall asleep, Bake didn't
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1920x1080_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[AFAEB072].mkv_snapshot_22.53_[2015.04.04_15.18.17].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QN1MBFQ.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_02_(1920x1080_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[AFAEB072].mkv_snapshot_22.53_[2015.04.04_15.18.17].jpg")
>>142177971
>that's why I think it's the greatest pre-love story ever told
It's interesting you say that, because I felt the Hyouka mystery was a good post-drama story. It did a good job of conceptualizing events that could have filled their own piece of fiction, but are left up to the viewer to detail using their imagination.
Do you mean they were trying do the same kind of thing at the end, but with romance instead? The series would come to a neat kind of full circle then.
![[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_NCOPED2_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[DEB8A1D1].mkv_snapshot_02.49_[2016.05.29_23.34.47].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YAFbIS4.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Hyouka_NCOPED2_(1280x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[DEB8A1D1].mkv_snapshot_02.49_[2016.05.29_23.34.47].jpg")
https://u.pomf.is/zhnewx.webm
Holy shit, you all are fags. Hyouka had stellar animation and Bake's story was fucking great. It's possible to love two different series for excelling in different aspects, even if they share similarities.
>>142178428
I was thinking this pre-love thing ever since I finished the ending 4 years ago, because back then there were a number of people who didn't get a kissing scene, eventhough that would really miss the point.
There's that age thing, that they're both suburban folk, that they're not exactly deeply in love, and most importantly is that Chitanda is pretty high up there when it comes to social ranking.
But importantly what makes me think this is a pre-love, is that scene at the very beginning, he's a pretty apathetic guy, but now for the first time he's feeling in love already, or at least some sort of affection, which was slowly developed in the series, because before this he's doing her chores mostly to get out of her face but now he's doing it because he's beginning to love her.
So this series is about him moving out of his comfort zone, then doing things because of his feelings, and naturally the sequel that'll never happen would be aboutholding hands
>>142179699
>the sequel that'll never happen
Did it flop or was it fully adapted?
>>142179779
Not enough material, but with the live action movie coming out the author just came back from a 6 year hiatus to make more. Hopefully we'll get a new season in 1 or two years.
>>142179779
As in,the sequel novels, which of course won't happen because the story really ends just one volume after the anime adapted the rest of them, leaving only one. I said won't happen in the sense that it's a story for another day~
>>142168616
Atleast half the shots of Hyouka aren't powerpoints.
>>142168140
It wasn't interesting. The writing was also horrid. It sure was pretty, though. I liked it, overall.
>>142177706
What are abstraction and the unreliable narrator, Alex?
Shows that didn't take that approach, like Madoka and Graffiti, had individually crafted background characters as well.
>>142180307
>Graffiti
I completely forgot I was still watching that shit. The eating scenes are great but everything else is horrible, it should've been a 5 minute anime.
Also, does SHAFT use a template for their necktilts? They all look the same.
>>142168140
Fuck, I hate Hyouka so much. The plot is so shit, yet people still eat it up.
>>142180449
Maybe you just don't get it.
>>142180449
Perhaps there is more to anime as a medium than "plot".
>>142180449
Annoying characters, too.
>>142180488
>p-plot doesn't matter gaiz!
Kyoanus damage control on full alert tonight, I see.
