When does a character stop being a character and starts being a plot device?
Is this the only real way to use Mary's and Gary's?
Seiya from Saint Seiya around episode 35 or so, the whole series goes downhill around episode 30.
>>141969264
He's not a Gary Stu.
He's a Joke Sue.
Those two things are only superficially the same.
>>141969264
>When does a character stop being a character and starts being a plot device?
When he plays a big part of the story yet going only so much into his character as minimal as the plot demands.
Are there people unironically calling Sakamoto a gary stu?
>>141972716
The problem is the definition.
Many people call any overpowered character a Stu.
>>141972716
the same people who call Umaru a Mary Sue
>>141972736
this
>>141972736
>Many people call any overpowered character a Stu.
But on the other side there is no 100% Mary Sue, so people defend the actual cases with its 5% of traits that may contradict a typical Mary Sue.
It's a too loosely term.
>>141973227
And most manga have chapters that focus on characters other than the MC. Vagabond has several volumes in a row focusing on some deaf dude. That doesn't change the fact that the edgy dude is still the MC.
![[fong] Golgo13：Queen Bee [R1DVDrip.10bit.ENsubs].mkv_snapshot_52.10_[2015.12.11_16.03.24].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/znpAz6b.jpg "[fong] Golgo13：Queen Bee [R1DVDrip.10bit.ENsubs].mkv_snapshot_52.10_[2015.12.11_16.03.24].jpg")
Not sure if he ever had a character but he certainly is a plot device.
>>141969264
In a plot driven story characters are inherently plot devices to a certain extent and there's nothing wrong with that as long as the plot is actually interesting.
>>141973262
>Not sure if he ever had a character
The mangaka certainly seems to think so. It's the one character he won't allow his assistants to draw because they won't get his character right.
(or maybe that's just his excuse why he still must be involved in the creative process)
>>141969264
I suppose when the tension is derived from wondering how the character will achieve something, rather than whether or not they can achieve it. It's true for Sakamoto even if it's just a gag, and it's true for characters like Tokuchi, Akagi etc.
>>141973503
That's not what plot device characters are about so I'll assume you're speaking of Mary Sues.
You again reduce the term to the character's ability scores, which is wrong.
>>141973439
Well to be fair, most people would probably try to draw him with more personality than the force of nature he is.
He does have quite a shrewd look to him as well, the way the guy draws him.
>>141973571
He has almost no forehead.
>>141973541
If you're not using Gary/Mary Stu to mean perfect characters, what's the point of asking the right way to use them? In the classic fanfiction sense of the word they're inherently bad characters that cannot be used properly.
>>141973594
>If you're not using Gary/Mary Stu to mean perfect characters,
I'm not.
The term Gary Stu does not describe just the character, it describes the entire story. Any definition that only looks at the character's personal attributes and achievements will invariably fail.
>>141973594
Sorry, I misread your post.
I didn't see the not at the beginning.
And I agree. There is no good way to use Mary Sues.
However, Mary Sue is a relative term. It's almost impossible to write a character without self-inserting just a little.
The trick is to keep the Mary Sue levels at an acceptably low level.
>>141973689
I think so too, which is why I assumed for the sake of discussion we're just talking about unrealistically perfect characters.
Is Road Runner a Mary Sue?
