Does human life have depth?
Yes when you die you'll find out.
>>141653406
Can you really call it electricity when it's the movement of cations?
>>141653552
well the more apt term would be pd, but being autistic about it is irrelevant, the initial statement is correct regardless.
Gantz ending sucked but that part with the aliens was cool.
Still my favorite manga ever anyway.
>>141653406
I do know that gantz has no depth
>>141653406
Does alien life have depth?
>>141653640
>being autistic about it is irrelevant
Do you know where we are?
In anycase, the OP itself is a silly question; there's no real answer.
>>141653406
there is currently no conclusive evidence that human life has any depth or greater purpose
>>141653732
Gantz was a fucking mess, but I enjoyed it.
>>141653823
But if life has no depth, does it mean we're all 2D?
>>141653406
Electronic devices have no conscience, making them fundamentally different to us.
Describing human life, existence and consciousness with a reductionist approach has been considered wrong since the last century.
Why is it that everytime a mangaka tries to do 2deep4u philosophical shit they embarass themselves?
It's almost as if they all are uneducated little shits.
>>141653841
I enjoyed it until the Oni mission, i read it until the very end but the joy wasn't the same after that mission.
>>141653406
C-Carl?
>>141653906
The entire point of that scene was the aliens making the humans feel like they were worthless and everything they fought for was worth nothing.
It was a recurring theme in the manga, where they can just clone people at 100 points 'reviving' the dead but its not 'them'. It was supposed to make you uncomfortable, like the rest of the manga. That shit with the 100 grams or whatever being your soul was dumb too, but so was the stupid love story so there you go.
>>141654147
>>The entire point of that scene was the aliens making the humans feel like they were worthless and everything they fought for was worth nothing.
And it fails spectacularly at that when the argument of the "superior" alien has been proven invalid since more than 50 years ago.
>>141653406
No but your mom's hole sure got some.
>>141653732
Gantz sucked from the start, your taste is irredeemable shit if it's your favorite manga.
>>141654147
>>141654234
Maybe it was just fucking with them after it got bored by the questions it got.
Alien level of bullying.
>>141653906
because social sciences are blah blah blah, you will always find a paradigm that fits whatever you are saying, too subjective
>>141653915
For me it was the Osaka arc.
>>141653841
Sleep tight polly
>>141654489
What? The conclusion I wrote about was adopted by physicians and scientists, when the advances in neurosurgery and the study of quantum physics didn't provide a reasonable explanation about what conscience is and why it exists.
>>141653823
and there is no conclusive evidence that says otherwise
>>141653906
>Electronic devices have no conscience
This is verified how?
>>141653906
>Why is it that everytime a mangaka tries to do 2deep4u philosophical shit they embarass themselves?
The mangaka knows his audience
The heroes needed an antagonist that would trivialize their human life in the shallowest way possible, by introducing an alien ancestral species who have the mentality of edgy human nihilists
>>141654816
Because electronic devices are uncapable of making decisions that don't come out of an already preprogrammed algorithm in their memory.
Non-algorithmic behaviour (that thing romanticised as "free will") seems to be intrinsically tied to conscioussness.
Even if you develop increasingly complex devices and computer, that just means they answer to more sophisticated algorithms.
I won't simply disregard your question with that because there's actually a divide, since theres a subset of theoricists that believe that conscioussness arise precisely from algorithms, and that at some point of complexity any device will be capable of developing conscioussness (as far as I recall this belief is called "hard IA").
However, as of right now, we haven't reached that level of complexity, so it's nothing more than a theory with nothing that supports it.
Roger Penrose's "The Emperor's New Mind" is a good introductory book to this.
>>141655086
You could argue the same saying that plant and animals are programed to survive and keep the species alive.
>>141655086
>le epic human consciousness has a mystical something that cannot be replicated or modeled in a machine meme
I thought all you faggots died off decades ago.
>>141655205
Did you just had an aneurysm or something?
>>141655195
And that's why there's a subset of people that believe that consciousness comes from a sufficiently sophisticated algorithms, but there are plenty of arguments that although fail to completely destroy this theory, they make it seem improbable, I don't remember them all however.
You seem to imply that I have said at some point that consciousness arises from life always, and I don't actually think so, at least when it comes to plants, plenty of scholars are on board with the idea that they don't have consciousness either, and neither do some animals that present very simple and seemingly invariable patterns of conduct.
>>141655205
It's an idea that has been becoming increasingly popular in scientific academical circles since almost two centuries.
If you remove the shitposts, this is an actual interesting thread thanks to the educated faggot. Also, I'm hyped for the incming Gantz movie.
>>141653406
Is that the wheelchair science guy?
>>141655372
>It's an idea that has been becoming increasingly popular in scientific academical circles since almost two centuries.
Due to human bias. People always want to feel they're special.
>>141655692
Yes it is him.
For some reason the super aliens like to take faces from different human beings who have done things or are known worldwide.
At the same time trying to tell humans that they are like dust and they just helped them for the sake of it and being a gigantic faggot at the same time.
>>141655205
>>le epic human consciousness has a mystical something that cannot be replicated or modeled in a machine meme
Well we have not replicated it yet so it is mystical.
>>141655804
Because we're actually special, at least when it comes to our world and the Universe we can observe, so the study of what makes us special is worthwhile and has been something attractive and interesting to practically every great mind in our history.
This is not a matter of opinion, but fact.
Thinking otherwise doesn't make you a sophisticated nihilist, but an edgy retard.
A nihilist, edgy professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Hiroya Oku, known talentless hack.
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and accept that life is painful, meaningless and mechanical and nothing actually matters in the grand scheme of things"
At this moment, a brave, upstanding, morally and physically pleasant student and good family father stood up and held up a tankoubon of Yotsuba&!
"Why is Yotsuba so cheerful, pinhead?"
The arrogant professor smirked quite nihilisticly and smugly replied “It's just neurons firing in her brain that have created the illusion she is a conscious being”
"Wrong. She is happy because out of sheer curiosity she experiences genuine feedback from the outside world. Even if these feelings can be autistically reduced to neurons and electricity in the human brain, it doesn't matter because the human consciousness has proven itself time over time to be able of the most unpredictable outcomes and cross reactions with other humans or nature. If what you said was true, then a paintings beauty could be explained from analyzing the color molecules that form it".
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Akame Ga Kill. He stormed out of the room crying those nihilist crocodile tears. The same tears they cry for “humanity” while at the same time trying to make money with edgy stories that they themselves claim is hollow and pointless. There is no doubt that at this point our professor wished he had just once really payed attention to the world he lives in. He wished so much that he had a gun to shoot himself, but he was despite his regular musings on suicide too chickenshit to do it!
>>141656048
>sophisticated nihilist
The nihilists I've encountered seem to think their excuse for laziness makes some of them smarter.
>>141656193
The students applauded and all decided to live every new day as the most enjoyable one. A bluebird named “Curiosity” flew into the room and perched atop a chestnut tree and began to sing. Yotsuba&! was read several times, and everybody discovered something amazing and wonderful this day.
ps. life is for living
>>141656193
Your post reminded me of this.
>>141653406
>we did everything to save all the life on Earth
>except humans
>you humans are shitbags who think too highly of themselves and should fuck off
>>141656381
So, Descartes all over again, except that Descartes failed to realize that he was trusting in his language to express his ideas.
>>141656381
Mickey BTFO Nihilstfag
>>141656665
>mfw somebody talks about language next to me
>>141656508
Man, I still fantasize on how much those aliens wrecked the shit out of the invaders. Fuckers like Sebastian could make a plane crash just with their mind or whatever.
>>141656665
Just like you failed those quads?
>>141656734
Pretty strang that the invaders could not just land on mars and make it their new home.
Instead of genociding humans on earth.
They were a highly advance race so it should not be impossible. Im also wondering how all other aliens before managed to migrate to earth.
>>141656665
Please explain. ALso, if you may, why knowledge is ultimately based in something we can't prove?
>>141657020
Read the D, and then reread my post.
>>141656856
Probably the forcefully needed some Earth's resource.
>>141657045
Oh, so Descartes is Donald? Who BTFO'd him, though? All the empiricists fags? Sorry, it's been a while since I discussed Philosophy, so all my knowledge is pretty rusted.
>>141657060
Yeah, maybe water like always.
They could also have been lazy as fuck and decided that earth is a good place.
>>141657207
Earth is a great place, it's its inhabitants that aren't. Inhabitants being humans. Maybe the invaders just wanted a nicer place to make their home.
>>141657440
>Inhabitants being humans
Tasty as fuck
>>141657159
I doon't really remember but IIRC that Hume nigga fought Descates and then people went deeper saying shit like both were wrong and then invented new definitions and new philosophy branches.
As I said, someone (can't remember who) argued with Descartes' train of though saying he ignored the fact that he was using words to define things, when he himself was trying to not trust in anything, not even him.
>>141657664
stop going all analytical philosophy on me.
lmao420blazeit with the cool guys from the continental school instead.
>>141657664
>doon't
I hate when my keyboard stutters.
>>141657666
>lol
>>141656193
>If what you said was true, then a paintings beauty could be explained from analyzing the color molecules that form it
trivial if I just hard code all my ideas of beauty to every painting u show me into a machine desu
>>141657889
What if after programing that machine you discover a new fetish?
>>141658036
Fuck off Gödel
Consciousness arising from inorganic matter has always seemed to defy the natural order to me. People have said to me that our universe is theoretically infinite so anything could potentially happen, but it should only be infinite in a spatial context and in others still adhere to a set of rules. I've also heard that since it happened it must be possible, but it's like if green or blue arose in a world that was intrinsically red and that was assumed to be natural because it occurred. It is absurd by nature.
There's no empirical basis behind this, and if there is, I haven't found it. I know certain facts suggest otherwise such as how brain conditions alter awareness and personality, but consciousness seems so unique, out of place and undemonstrated by anything else. Honestly, am I just dumb for thinking this, and for being open to the possibility that a deity or superintelligent creature might have designed us?
>>141658498
>Honestly, am I just dumb for thinking this, and for being open to the possibility that a deity or superintelligent creature might have designed us?
Our existence can be wholly explained through science. There's no reason to assume a supernatural component to life when it doesn't appear to be necessary for our existence.
>>141653406
Probably not, but it helps me to think that is does.
>>141658575
Is it wrong to think it's possible?
Why these threads have so few answers, yet SnK threads have hundreds of them?
>>141659011
because the questions to human consciousness are irrelevant compared to the TRUE questions of life.
For example, why they didn't just build bigger walls
>>141658744
As of now no one can strictly prove you wrong or right, so not technically wrong.
I fail to see what's wrong with that, it's as stupid as complaining that the gaming PC you bought is just a very advanced calculator.inb4 autism
>>141658744
It's not wrong, but you're being illogical. You're assuming a greater degree of complexity than is required to describe the situation.
Why the FUCK was this allowed?
>>141659092
Because walls aren't just bricks. Walls are fucking Collosal Titans.
>>141659525
But that wasn't a surprise. Not as much as when Kuwabara did it.
>>141659525
>clapping
they're Americans, right?
>>141659525
Because Gantz duh.
>>141656048
There's no such such thing as a sophisticated nihilist, because nihilism isn't sophisticated. It's just edgy bullshit. The big philosophers have said as much for at least two hundred years.
>>141659747
In case you didn't read the manga they are literally Americans.
Also, why the HECK was this allowed?
>>141658744
Like another anon has pointed out, to think such a thing is illogical. But that does not mean to say it isn't true.
>>141659669
Dude's sex drive was god-tier.
>>141656664
>>141659465
Kill yourself with a razor
>>141659944
Occam's Razor?
If you're being serious though there's nothing wrong with being illogical either, to be entirely clear.
>>141653906
>different TO us
>using shit as a disparaging term for a person
ESL-kun you're trying but your English still isn't top-notch.
>>141653406
Human beings are bound by the same laws as every other living creature. Thus, human life has no more (or less) depth than a colony of ants. The only difference is that the latter lacks our self-awareness.
>>141660046
And only humans can fuck up the entire planet.
>>141660011
Yeah I was jocking.
Nice triple dubs.
>>141653406
Yes, its one of the 3 dimensions.
>>141653406
STRING THEORY POSITS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS HOLOGRAPHIC
YOU ARE 2D
>>141653406
... is that stephen hawking?
>>141660038
I don't know who the fuck is your bin namefag but don't reply to me ever again.
>>141660046
Humans are objectively more complex organisms than ants. To say that our lives have less depth than them is wrong.
>>141660046
No wonder Gantz is so popular if this is the average level of literacy of someone that watches anime.
>>141656048
Of course, everyone is technically special, but human choices and decisions are 99% predictable with the right formulas.
>>141660911
Please share with us those formulas.
The odds of a random /a/ shitposter being a genius that makes the whole field of psychology obsolete are astronomically low but not zero.
>>141660911
FTL travel is possible "with the right formulas".
Creating black holes is possible "with the right formulas".
Literally anything is possible "with the right formulas".
>>141659092
Or how does her butt smells like? Shit's been debated for eons.
>>141659465
>degree of complexity
>complexity
>something did it instead of it's just that way
>>141660011
Does Occam's Razor stand up to itself?
>>141657889
This is happening right now actually, there are already AI's that can compose music which is pleasing to the human ear.
>>141661967
"compose music" is an overstatement.
They're just generating songs following an algorithm with a set of defined rules, generally with a pseudorandom seed giving the illusion of "composing" as in "making something out of nothing".
As of right now, all our computers operate under the paradigm of the Turing universal machine, that means that they're uncapable of generating an unexpected output out of a known input.
Meaning that yeah, they're "creating new music" in a sense and to us it might seem so because with a pseudorandom input we'll never know what to expect, however, we know that the output will always be defined inside the rules that are coded inside the machine, and will absolutely never move out from that.
Avant-garde music and artistic experimentation are not understandable by computers right now, so although we can tell them how to compose music, they'll never try to change their predefined rules or algorithms because to them songs aren't a piece of art, but an output that has no inherent value to anyone except the human that used the machine.
To make a machine capable of changing their own algorithms out of their own impulse would be the moment when we can talk about some kind of artificial consciousness, but as of right now it doesn't exist.
I wish they would have explained what the fuck was up with the Italy Aliens.
No other Aliens ever came close to that kind of power.
>>141662262
>To make a machine capable of changing their own algorithms out of their own impulse would be the moment when we can talk about some kind of artificial consciousness, but as of right now it doesn't exist.
That implies that us conscious beings have that capability.
Do we know for sure that we have the ability to change our own algorithms (when we don't understand how the brain functions as a whole, only as individual components which is basically as OP pic except with more chemicals) and would it really be any different from a sufficiently large and complex algorithm?
>>141662342
I hate how they made Hard Suits look like fucking glass.
>>141662804
>Do we know for sure that we have the ability to change our own algorithms
It's hard to say, we seem to be able to adapt and change our behaviour willingly far more than the living beings that surround us, but that could be simply because our overarching behaviour is far more sophisticated.
>would it really be any different from a sufficiently large and complex algorithm
Some people think that and some people don't, no one knows for sure.
>>141653406
A FUCKING WHITE MALE
