Kirito
>Gold standard Gary Stu, blatant self-insert for friendless shutin gamers
Ara-araragi
>Based MC; fucking earned his harem; WE ARE NOT WORTHY
How does this work exactly?
Both are elf insert characters.
>>141633337
>elf insert characters
I know Erroragi's a manlet, how about Kirito?
>>141633337
> Both are self insert characters.
What? Who would ever want Araragi's life? Sure he's got a bunch of good girl friends as well as an actual girlfriend, but the dude get's basically all his damn bones broken pretty much every season, not to mention the fact that he throws himself into every problem he can find and more often than not, is okay with the prospect of dying to solve a problem.
You'd have to be autistic to want his shit ass life.
>>141633337
>elf insert character
Ararararagi's a witty smartass, Kirito is a bland goodie two-shoes.
>>141635120
He has shinobu
>>141635120
Chuunis would self insert into that. It's the juvenile appeal of living through dramatic adventures and thinking you'd be able to handle it well emotionally.
monogatari is hot garbage anyway
>>141632574
Araragi has around ~2 arcs with each heroine in which he usually helps them overcome some kind of problem. The girls also usually have lives of their own and may or may not show up in other arcs.
Kirito basically does the absolute minimum amount of interaction with everyone bar shinon and Asuna, everyone else basically gets shoved into the peanut gallery of irrelevance after their 15 minutes with kirito is up, (including Shinon despite getting more development than the others). You could easily cut out the dragon tamer and blacksmith chick and lose almost nothing plotwise because they're basically sidequests.
>>141635120
I don't buy this kind of argument even if I'm trying to argue the same point that Kirito is the shittier of the two.
The MC from mahouka also has a "shitty" life of being magic-surgically altered into an emotionless killer but he's still a garbage gold-standard gary stu even if I wouldn't want to live his life.
>>141632574
It works because I don't like both.
>>141635153
That image should be named "tg"
>>141635387
It's juvenile in theory, but actually seeing what it would get you in that kind of world makes it way less appealing.
There's wanting to be the cool helpful guy who always fights the bad guys no matter the odds, then there's Araragi getting almost literally beaten into a bloody pulp on many occasions. And that's not even counting Kizu where he did die and revive an unknown amount of times while fighting Kisshot.Plus him for real dying in Koyomi and having to haul himself and Mayoi out of hell
>>141635435
In general, I just figure Araragi is too much of an anomoly personality wise to be a self insert anyway, just the way he processes situations and how he'll let himself be savagely hurt for people he barely knows would make it hard for anyone to see their own mindset in him.
>>141635387
But then literally any MC with an interesting life is a self-insert
The term loses its meaning
>>141635120
His height also makes easier to self insert
>>141635894
It's not like you'd want to self insert as a manlet, would you?
>>141635756
He didn't get into specifics.
The Chuuni's that are the middle-highschool demographic that consume these lightnovels are looking for a particular kind of self insert.
-Solitary/Loner like Kirito at the beginning of SAO (because they usually aren't popular IRL)
-Sense of justice (usually their reason for getting the girl)
-Some kind of setting where their knowledge of videogames gives them an advantage (usually trapped in game/Isekai setting)
And wrap all of that up in a generic looking highschooler and you're all set.
It's why I think it's a fucking shame SAO has to be the more popular of Reki's works. The MC from Accel world's fat body and negative self-image is pretty rare in that kind of genre.
>>141635976
We are talking about an average nippon
>>141636119
Araragi is still a good 5-7cm shorter than the average Jap male.
>>141632574
Kirito
>Literally the modern version of Ken in Fist Of The North Star. Manliest of all men, Leader of Humanity, POTUS material
Ararararagi
>Literally a criminal pedophile that only jap manlets and /a/utists can identify with.
Guess who has shit taste , anon?
>>141636335
>Kirito
>Manly
>only fights in VR
Who has shit taste now?
>>141636040
The market eats up what it wants. SAO was originally one of his earliest of works, not his fault he nailed the core concepts that appeal to pre-teens despite how rough the story is.
He genuinely wanted to expand the original as well, but interest moves on + he already had Acell, Alicisation and back then he was juggling 2-3 other stories from memory.
Now he is stuck with the series that profited the most despite most likely wanting to do other ideas, but he's aware he shouldn't cut off complete momentum, especially since Progressive sells.
>>141636040
>fat body
>negative self-image
Hits way too close to home, especially if you consider all the usual loner/good in muh games thing.
>>141637257
Well, he miracuoulsy bested some bigass grown men with sharp objects in the most edgy hedgeheg ways possible. Games also help you become a megaswordsman folded over a thousand times while you`re lying in coma, you know.
>>141637257
He isn't a fatty like 50% of /a/, thus the chicks would be magnetized to him.
Araragi actually has solid reasons that the girls in his harem like him, and the one girl with a stupid, nonsense reason turned out to be a batshit insane cunt who he cut all ties with. Plus, most of the plot is focused around being there for the members of his harem when they need him. So yeah, he earns his fucking harem by constantly maintaining his relationship with them in meaningful, non-cliche'd ways. Then there's the part where the story keeps pointing out how much of a fucking child Araragi is and showing adults being better at life than he is, which is the opposite of a gary-stu where the entire story exists to jerk off how cool and perfect they are except for some bullshit superficial non-faults like they're too handsome.
Why did I write so much in response to a shitty bait?
>>141638143
Because you care anon, which is a good thing.
>>141632574
>b-b-but he's had a hard life so he'a not a self insert xD
I fucking hate fanboys. Yes he is a self insert and no chunnis don't care that he gets beaten because he ends up with the hot chicks and bizarres adventures anyway.
You're like thoss chucklefucks that say Emiya Shirou is not a self insert because he wants to save people and whatnot, vut you retards seem to forget he's literally made for chunni retards that like muh tragedy, hot chicks and cool powers
>>141632574
While SAO is a off-site meme monoatagari is an /a/ meme series. Naturally, atagari is better than SAO but both should still be quickly disregarded like the onions of the fans the series hold.
>>141638143
This is probably the best reply in this thread.
>>141632574
Who cares?
Kirito is cute!
CUTE!
>>141635120
>You'd have to be autistic to want his shit ass life.
Where do you think we are?
A lot of people have a savior complex because they can't fix themselves and don't have anyone who cares about them. Araragi's superpower is enduring pain, he wins fights by taking all of the hits, instead of actually fighting. Same goes for depressed faggots who never actively fight for themselves and instead just accept the pain that their life is.
>>141636335
>Literally a criminal pedophile that only jap manlets and /a/utists can identify with.
THIS IS WHY WE LOVE HIM! We can identify with him!
>>141639461
But I can't imagine people, even spergs who want hero worship, would want to self insert as the guy who not only gets his ass wrecked on multiple occasions, but also as the guy who does that when it's not even the best way to resolve the situation, other characters literally tell him that his fights were more often than not, unneeded, and in Nadeko's case, actually a worse option than doing nothing. There was almost always a smarter way to go about things, and the series makes it pretty clear that Araragi is too stupidly straightforward to realize them, so he needs to be told the right way by Oshino/one of the girls.
Compared to a 'gary stu' character who would be the strongest character in the show by measure of how much power they had and/or the ability to make up some crazy strategy that would always work things in their favor.
>>141641259
There are numerous things you're doing wrong, Anonymous, starting with simply not stepping outside of your box.
Sword Art Online is the worst anime, I would know, I've seen all ten animes.
>>141632574
One is well written, the other isn't.
Although Araragi is conveniently the romantic center for a bunch of girls, that's pretty much where his privilege in the setting ends.
We have characters like Oshino who are shown to know more about the oddities than him, and we even had Kaiki starring in his own arc.
SAO has nothing like that. Anyone who appears is portrayed bellow Kirito, and, even when they wanted to introduce a girl around his own level, they had to go with stuff like how he can't fight as well since his life isn't on the line (and the girl was a ticking time bomb anyway) rather than just making her clearly superior to him. You don't get an older player taking on a role similar to the older characters from Bakemonogatari.
>>141641321
No need to get pissy, just saying that the series shows his choices to be the dumb choice, even if it does come from good intentions, so it's hard to see why people would want to self insert as a character who's general mindset causes him to make a lot of needless mistakes ((that are clearly pointed out to him by more knowledgeable/powerful characters)) and get horribly maimed basically every season. The general point of a self insert character is that they're meant to be idealized without any big flaws.
>>141632574
Watching monogatari series makes you sleepy because of all those 2deep4you and pretentious verses on its conversation. Even with the fan services it wont help
While SAO always keeps me awake no matter what.
And therefore SAO is better
>>141643098
> 2deep4you
> Monogatari
There's nothing about it that even pretends to be deep anon, are you sure you aren't just retarded?
>>141643218
Yest there is nothing deep but they are trying so hard to be 2deep4you anime with all those lengthily conversations that stating the obvious
>>141632574
Everyone here knows SAO is bad, but some still mistakenly believe that Nisio Isin is a good writer
>>141643436
How are the conversations '2deep4you' exactly?
The conversations that aren't story information related are mostly just them talking stupid banter to each other for comedic purposes.
Basically just comes down to whether you like a lot of dialogue in a show or not, but just having a lot of dialogue doesn't immediately make it pretentious or '2deep4you'
>>141643463
This. 2 pages just for describing Hanekawa panties is just too stupid. It is Murakami-tier in writing a descriptions
>>141643573
>How are the conversations '2deep4you' exactly?
There are lots of them. The monologues also, but I forgot if I have to specify on which part because I'm too sleepy while watching it. It's so boring
>>141632574
Araragi is a weird autist. He used to be an edgy self insert harem MC (back in kizu) but he's turned into a goofy fucker lately with some pretty serious self-worth issues. I have yet to meet anyone who wants to BE Araragi and not just be in Araragi's situation. There is a big difference.
Araragi is also incompetent when it comes to solving other people's problems. He tries, but it almost always ends up backfiring in a much worse way (a consequence of his immaturity). If you consider Araragi a Gary Stu in any way then you are so stupid that you should just kill yourself t b h.
>>141643722
So they're too deep or ((pretending to be)) just because there's a lot of conversations?
Seriously, I think you might be retarded.
>>141643864
I mean is that there are lots of verses, and monologues that are sounds like the writer is trying too hard to sound 2deep4me but they are just too many repetitions, and obvious statements. In short, the writing's shit and what you like is shit
>>141644075
You still haven't provided any examples and you won't because deep down you know you are wrong.
>rararagi
>Gary Stu
Fucker makes mistakes every time only to be saved by someone from his harem including Oshino. Every time he "saves" someone he usually needs the help of someone else, too.
>basically fucked up the world by saving Kisshot
Good job, "hero"
>>141632574
Basically any characters from any story is insertable, the question is what kind of people self-insert as them?
