Why can't anime into quality world building?
Most anime is just "Japan + fantasy trope = setting."
It's pretty generic no?
>>140677255
Nips are soulless ants whose best creative work is stealing from others. Doesn't help that their work environment is crushing, most japanese can't afford to take time off and travel, and chinese printed funny images writers have both crushing schedules and no money to travel or time to read books due to deadlines.
That's like asking why your mcdonalds isn't gourmet quality.
>>140677255
Every entertainment media ever
Because it takes time away from the cute girls/fetishes
>>140677255
Gundam has great world building.
12 episodes limit
>worldbuilding
TVTropes and Wikia shit.
>>140677343
>I don't watch any anime and don't know anything about it, but here I am regardless
Japs can't write for shit
>>140677255
"world building" and obsession with fantasy settings is a dumb meme propagated by millennial shits who've condensed their view of reality into smartphones and social media accounts. The world as it stands is a perfectly interesting place as it stands to set a story, there's no need to paint over it for the sake of novelty.
>>140677559
Yes but that was 30 years ago
>>140677634
>TVTropes and Wikia shit.
What are you even trying to convey here? Are you saying creative and original narrative settings aren't desirable? Please explain anon.
>>140677255
Same reason why western fantasy is usually just medieval-esque Europe, because that's what creators are usually familiar with. You write what you know.
>>140677688
World building before telling a story goes back to Tolkien, but what say is true. Most works don't need nor do they have anything on that level.
>>140677729
It's the TVTropes and Wikia crowd who are obsessed with "worldbuilding" and "lore" because they love to endlessly document fictional worlds and write down and categorize every little detail.
>>140677688
Novelty is enjoyable though. Unfamiliar settings create curiosity and intrigue.
Creativity isn't dumb, but a lack of it sure can be.
OP is not saying world building is needed or anything
Only that Japan barely ever invest in it, which is true
The most Ive seen have been in porn games funny eough
>>140677688
>"world building" and obsession with fantasy settings is a dumb meme propagated by millennial shits who've condensed their view of reality into smartphones and social media accounts.
What does the first half of this sentence even have to do with the other? Did you string together two thoughts just because?
>>140677818
>they love to endlessly document fictional worlds and write down and categorize every little detail.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It makes things last longer culturally.
>>140677255
>anime
You're talking about source material. Japan can also go into polar opposite for completely retarded "original" settings.
>>140677813
>>140677843
I enjoy it when it's well done. But at best it's just a substitute, Tolkien's world is just re-purposing old mythologies that were actually part of the fabric of society at one point. Most of the really interesting thing is his linguistic work.
>>140677969
There isn't anything wrong with it until it leads to threads like this.
>>140677911
Yeah, because every western author is a sperglord like Tolkien and spends decades making up fictional languages and writing self-consistent mythologies and settings.
I mean, it's not like the majority of entertainment in general is just a bunch of real world setting + a couple of throwaway fiction elements.
>>140678075
Yes, Id much rather have a mediocre SoL anime with a generic setting that fades into obscurity after a few months.
It's simpler that way.
>>140678128
Nice strawman.
>>140677255
>quality world building
Inb4 some pricks complain about too much exposition and shit
>>140678164
>it's bad because it doesn't have "worldbuilding" and "lore"
This is what I mean.
>I haven't seen One Piece
>or Berserk
>or Fullmetal Alchemist
>or any fantasy anime that's not a stupid stuck-in-a-game harem
>>140677813
I think people in general underestimate just how much effort Tolkien put into his works. Like, LotR covers a small small that only really qualifies as important because it gets rid of the great ancient evil left that was Sauron. For example Tolkien put pretty much all of his efforts into Silmarillion and notes that would become The Children of Hurin after he was done with LotR because those two were actually what he wanted to work on from the get-go. If you actually some commentary at the end of the book, his son points out Tolkien considered The Children of Hurin to be a seminal work.
>>140678204
>strawman
inigomontoya.jpg
>>140677255
Why put time and effort into something that will hold artistic merit but flop, when you can just make an idol anime that will sell like hotcake, not to mention all that merchandise?
>>140677688
Seconded. You don't need "world building" to get a good story. A story could simply be about everyday life of cute girls doing cute things. Anyone who NEEDS "world building" is an either an edgy kid or a manchild with no perspective.
>>140678444
You say that like making an idol anime is easy.
And of course you're also saying that if something doesn't have "worldbuilding" and "lore" then it couldn't possibly be any good.
>>140677255
there's no incentive to do that
most anime with a ton of artistic freedom have flopped
>>140678444
>le idolshit boogieman
Because it's not like for every successful idol anime there is a metric shit ton of run-of-the-mill RPG battle harems
>>140677255
Because it sells better.
Those who work on the anime might actually enjoy it, but for the owner of the studio, it's all about the ¥en
>>140677255
This is a pretty damn generic, retread thread for someone complaining about that exact thing.
Why can't western media into fantasy that requires actual fantasy?
Most western fantasy is just "fantasy European kingom + tolkien shit = setting"
It's pretty generic no?
>>140677255
Why can't America into quality world building?
Most movies are just "America + high-budget CGI = setting"
It's pretty generic, no?
>>140678852
This, western fantasy is bland as shit
>>140678861
>>140678852
I never said western media was better anons. You're putting words into my mouth. I'm using anime because it's the medium I watch the most.
>>140678963
>I was just pretending to be retarded
>>140679028
Keep projecting anon.
>>140679087
That's a cute girl I want to fuck it.
>>140677255
Most Fantasy anime tend to be shitty LN adaptions so obviously there's not going to be much thought put into a setting, when the real purpose is to appeal to otakus who want to self-insert into some blank slate fuccboi MC.
>>140679118
She's 10 you degenerate.
>>140679224
If it's on the clock it's ready for cock.
>>140677255
Go read a book.
>>140677913
1. Identifying the culprit of said behavior. Millenials is not an entirely accurate term to use as they were proceeded by things like early DnD and science fiction fan groups guilty of the same things. The millennial generation reaching adulthood is just the point at which it achieved cultural saturation.
2. Identifying the circumstances through which the desire for fantasy settings has arisen by reference of that group's behavior, which is technology.
3a. The advent of technology that it makes everything man could dream of accessible but by some faustian mechanism makes it become mundane at the same.
3b. Entertainment is just overstimulation which overshadows the beauty of the mundane by giving the beholder no avenue to appreciate it without significant effort on their own part to resist it.
4. Any conjecture on those point would only be conjecture, but you can think of it in terms of the kind of vanishing mysticism put forth by prophets on the edge of it's collapse, as in Burrough's idea of a magical universe walking in the shadow of our own vanishing as we look for it, regardless of the drug fueled pedophilic escapades in Tangiers which might have influenced the formation of the idea.
>>140677688
>reflecting this hard because he cannot find an objective reason why wanting original settings is bad
Adorable.
![[Vivid] Non Non Biyori Repeat - 05 [9816391F].mkv_snapshot_12.05_[2015.11.10_00.38.48].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Svzo6rl.jpg "[Vivid] Non Non Biyori Repeat - 05 [9816391F].mkv_snapshot_12.05_[2015.11.10_00.38.48].jpg")
>>140679224
I don't believe you
>>140679224
11*
>>140678504
Name one good series about cute girls doing cute things.
>>140679188
>self-insert into some blank slate fuccboi MC
Meme. It's Westerners who are obsessed with self-insertion, and you characterize every single male protagonist of a light novel as being exactly the same regardless of what they're actually like.
People don't even directly experience anime anymore, they just filter everything through these horseshit memes.
as apposed to american "world building" which is New York always.
>>140679118
Get in line man.
>>140679335
>People don't even directly experience anime anymore, they just filter everything through these horseshit memes.
This is a great description of everything wrong with discussion on the modern internet.
>>140679328
Hidamari Sketch. K-On. Yuru Yuri. Bakuon. Aria. Non Non Biyori. Kiniro Mosaic. Gochuumon.
>>140678504
Except that's clearly not the case when OP refers to "Japan + fantasy setting"
>>140679339
Don't forget the giant blue lazer in the sky coming down on the empire state building.
>>140679335
>you characterize every single male protagonist of a light novel as being exactly the same regardless of what they're actually like.
Are you even reading what you're writing? Are you implying that the MC's in these shitty cash-in light novel's are somehow different and multi-faceted?
>>140679335
This. Someone post the buzzword translation chart.
>>140679393
That's not entirely what I said. I didn't say fantasy setting, but did say fantasy tropes. Could be vampires, elves, magic, etc... Add that onto normal Japanese culture and boom, you get most anime settings. It's very formulaic.
>>140679439
They are inevitably different to varying degrees like any other characters.
>>140679267
That's more like it.
>>140679435
>Independence day
>The world is literally saved by an "America fuck yea" redneck
>The crowd goes wild and claps in the theater.
>>140679518
You're literally complaining that a lot of Japanese cartoons take place in Japan.
>>140679381
jokes on you I just wanted some sick anime recommendations from cool dudes on 4chan.org
90% of japanese works have crappy worldbuilding much like 90% of western works have crappy worldbuilding.
>>140679635
OP here. This is not me. Please don't hate my thread any more than you already do. I specifically worded it so that it wasn't interpreted as a rec thread.
>>140679544
Name them, then. Obviously the design will be a little different but the way they act? It's always the same shit.
>otaku in the previous world
>oblivious to girls
>plain character design
>NEET
It's a mass produced template, a cardboard cut-out, and not a fluid character in any way,shape or form.
>>140679657
90% of everything is pure crap, can we just accept it as a fact and move on? There isn't a single genre in any medium that isn't mostly shit.
It's because Japan is by and large still a country that holds isolationist and traditional ideals. You look at western media and you see attempts at becoming diverse. Now, I don't want to bring up whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing but there is a clear attempt at doing so.
Western media is global media. Everyone knows Hollywood, everyone knows Lord of the Rings. Eastern media is NOT global media. People don't know a bunch of anime. People don't know popular Chinese, Japanese, or Korean films.
So why be diverse if you're only going to appeal to one demographic of people? You see mangas and animes that try to be interesting, something beyond products or are the result of some extremely creative individual. Not to be cliche but Miyazaki understands how to create a world beyond Japan, even while still using Japanese folklore as a backdrop. Even Marvel and DC comics do more. Look at Bleach, how many issues and they just keep jumping back and forth between the spirit world and Japan? The spirits speak Japanese, they have Japanese clothes and architecture, and the only country that really exists in that world is Japan. Now look at Superman. He goes around saving people in Mexico and Russia despite being in the United States. Look at Iron Man, he went to the middle east.
Name one good western fantasy thats not tolkien rehash
Protip: there are none
>>140677255
>Ctrl+F Sora no Woto
>0 results
Come on, /a/
>>140677343
/tg/ here, you only need to travel for good world building if you are an idiot anyway.
>>140679806
>otaku in the previous world
We don't know anything about the protagonist of Grimgar.
>oblivious to girls
Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry.
>plain character design
Male characters tend to have plain character design compared to female characters. There's a lot less you can do with them and most artists are more interested in the girls.
>NEET
Since most characters are students this is usually not applicable.
>>140679895
You need to watch more anime. Start with Strike Witches.
>>140677688
Do you not realize that "millennial" refers to people born between roughly 1982 and the late 1990s? Do you not realize that almost everybody on this site is a millennial? Why does nobody actually know what a millennial means? Do you just hate on millennials because it's the cool thing to do, without knowing you're one yourself? Fucking retard.
>>140679896
The Sandman
Often times, alternate settings are simply means to an end so world building is deliberately eschewed because the actual nature of the setting isn't important and shouldn't detract from thew actual focus of the show.
Generic and familiar settings are used exactly because they're familiar. You can rely on the audience to make affordances because it's similar to a universe they've already encountered in another form of entertainment, which means you can waste as little time as possible familiarizing your audience with the setting. Not wasting time on a setting in a story where the setting's only purpose is to serve as a vessel to allow the actually entertaining characters and events to happen is ideal. This is why the RPG videogame-esque setting is so popular. The intended audience is already familiar with the way that the mechanics and technical details of the setting works, so it spares lengthy monologues of exposition and chuuni technical explanations in order to bring the audience up to speed when in reality that fantasy setting is only being used to allow for the kind of fantastical action that the creators want to showcase.
That's not to say that shows where the setting is a major focus don't exist. It's just less common because the setting is typically a less interesting facet of a narrative than character interactions, drama, plot, and action. When you have limited screen time with which to balance multiple areas of focus, it's smart to be judicial with your screen time and narrow the scope of your show down to things which are easier to present in a satisfactory fashion.
You know its weird people complain about the lack of creativity from the japanese because their stuff often seem weirder and more vibrant than most shit churned out by the american movie and tv industry. Oh sure japan has its cliche, especially in anime, but its still not as generic as the carbon copy movies we get in the states.
>>140680081
>Do you just hate on millennials because it's the cool thing to do
You don't even need to ask that. That's the case with literally every person who has ever used millennial negatively since the term's conception. It's probably the most baseless, bottom of the barrel insult one could possibly use.
>>140680139
This
>crime drama #3065845
>>140680202
Or generic 'humoristic cartoon #911730 with "nerdy" reference'.
>>140680202
The most fun one I can think of is Lucifer
But even then they had to add crime drama shit
Let's not forget Game of Thrones which is basically Akame ga Kill
>>140680081
Because millennial is a cool world and hating on the young generation is also cool, so they misuse the word constantly in the hopes that it will stick.
>>140680081
My fucking fourteen-year-old sister complained about millennials recently, I don't even know what it means anymore.
I'm prepared to get shit on, but as much as it seems to be hated by /a/ I think SnK did world building pretty well.
>>140679896
That would depend how broadly you define "Tolkien rehash", I'd say.
>>140679975
But you need to actually put effort into it and be creative.
>>140680260
>>140680263
'Millenial' refer to those teen-to-mid twenty people who think they are super nerdy because they saw a panel of a deadpool comic on reddit and whos entire worldview come from the internet and shit churned by social media.
>>140677255
Why wouldn't they use Japan? They are written by Japanese people.
>>140680280
That's literally the only reason why so many people were tricked into reading it on the first place.
Worldbuilding is nice, but as many anons have said before, it can't replace decent writing.
>>140679896
Dresden Files. Mistborn.
>>140677818
Have you considered that there are more people on the planet who like worldbuilding than just those two communities. Maybe their drive to documenting is simply an effect of people liking worldbuilding and not the cause?
>>140680343
>Worldbuilding is nice, but as many anons have said before, it can't replace decent writing.
Worldbuilding only work if it supplement a good story. Then it give the story a feeling that it is more 'real', that there is a whole world out there beyond the scope of the story. It raise the stakes.
>>140680397
The first book of Mistborn has a lot of Tolkien.
>>140678212
>too much exposition
I enjoy every moment of it.
>>140680139
>weirder
only on a superficial level, like how people think Japan is weird for tentacle porn but when you really think about it it's just an alternate form of vaginal insertion that is pretty erotic to everyone.
It's like when there is yet another post-apocalyptic anime except this time it's aliens instead of robots or instead of robots its god. It's not an attempt at creating something truly unique.
Cartoon Network has stuff like Steven Universe. I'm not saying it's a good show but even as a show heavily emulating anime ,what other anime has something similar? Even Disney stuff like Pirates of the Caribbean with sea fantasy, what anime can be compared to that?
>>140680280
The initial setup was pretty solid and it did have an interesting world that was obviously very thoroughly planned by the author.
But the author failed to really do much with the setting, which is where the whole thing fell flat. It took so long for the story to begin doing interesting things beyond the introduction that steam-powered cable parkour became the new norm and the setting just because this mundane fixed point around which the dog chased its tail
Last Exile still sticks out ion my mind as one of the best instances of a setting-driven narrative where worldbuilding was at the forefront and done well. That show had pretty awful writing and yet the setting concept was so solid and presented/built so well that it didn't even matter. The world carried the show.
>>140680139
I think you broke down the genre and subject matter of anime vs. American shows, anime would be a lot more diverse.
But it has become accepted fact that anime is a repetitive and unimaginative assembly line of identical shows while American TV is a wellspring of innovation and artistic freedom. It doesn't matter if it's true, it just has to be repeated often enough.
>>140680397
Are you telling me Mistborn doesn't have its own Sauron, Nazgul, orcs, and Gandalf-figurewho dies and leaves the "fellowship" alone at the end of the first book?
>japanese are more unique and take more risks guys!
>yet another season of trapped in a video game anime
>>140680635
>yet another season of trapped in a video game anime
Which one?
Anime/manga and related works tend to have more creative settings than the west, but also shallower. Western fantasy is usually more detailed and believable, but also stuck in Medieval Europe with the same races over and over again. It's very hard to create a setting that is both original and deep, so most authors go for one or the other.
>>140680341
No it doesn't. You can't warp a definition to fit you worldview. It doesn't work that way.
>>140680635
>I don't like anime that much, I'm just here to watch the shows /v/ recommended and then shitpost
>>140680317
Yes, that is true.
>>140680562
>Cartoon Network has stuff like Steven Universe. I'm not saying it's a good show but even as a show heavily emulating anime ,what other anime has something similar?
What American show is similar to Steins;Gate, Monster Musume, Planetes, Haruhi, Girls und Panzer, Shouwa Genroku, Hibike, Serial Experiments Lain or Mysterious Girlfriend X?
>>140680343
Is it, though? The whole setting makes no sense and explains nothing until it turns out that everyone was under mind control.
>>140680471
No, actually it didn't.
>>140680705
Not that guy, but thats the gist of it. The "millenials" is referred to those people in the 20s-early 30s who just came into a scene and thinks they're hot shit. Aka those "nerdy" gamer girls, those "hard core" league of legend players, those Attack on Titan "anime otakus" etc. You get the picture, its similar to hipster shit.
>>140680677
It doesn't help that medieval europe is so deeply ingrained in the education of any western writer. Studies of literature, more often than not, are simply cultural surveys of british and italian history from the end of the roman empire to the romantic period. So much of our writing theory and education is drawn right out of texts from historical canon so it becomes a natural, almost inescapable basis for fantasy fiction.
Which is a damn shame, because fiction is almost universally more interesting and diverse when it's engaging with modernist and post-modernist literature outside of the established literary canon. It boggles my mind that there's still so many literary scholars who get tight in the butt cheeks over the 'abhorrent rulebreaking' of contemporary literature.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned LoGH yet. It's the first anime I think of when I hear "world-building."
>>140680342
B-But its not inclusive.
Yea, OP is a shitty sjw millenial.
>>140680635
This season there's a spy thriller set in 1930s Japan, a show about motorcycling, a zombie survival action show, a mecha show where a samurai awakens in modern Japan, a comedy about high school students playing an MMO, a comedy about a miko and a talking bear in a mountain village, a slice of life story about a witch in a small town, a coming of age drama about elementary school students, a Japanese version of Watchmen, a mystery show about a group of people trapped in a village, an action fantasy show about exorcists...
Even when it comes to "trapped in an MMO" type shows, they are not all the same. Overlord isn't like Sword Art Online, which isn't like Danmachi, which isn't like Grimgar.
>>140680737
More like
>I watched dragonball z and generic shonen shit, now I'm an anime fan. Where are the GOOD anime like naruto and one piece?
>>140680920
That isn't the definition of millennial though. Use a different word unless you like looking like a tryhard dumbass.
>>140680968
What the fuck anon? That's a pretty hardcore leap in logic your taking.
>>140680562
>like how people think Japan is weird for tentacle porn but when you really think about it it's just an alternate form of vaginal insertion that is pretty erotic to everyone
Anon, weirdness doesn't really work in a totally logical way, it's more of a natural reaction. Tentacle porn is pretty weird by most people's standards. So is futa, even though that's also just vaginal insertion.
>>140681194
>So is futa, even though that's also just vaginal insertion.
Not the good kind
>>140680625
Well, if you want to force superficial similarities, you can.
The Koloss were never more than an abstract threat in Final Empire and really weren't Tolkien Orks at all in Well of Ascension.
The Lord Ruler is looks kind of like Sauron, but is meaningfully different in a number of key areas and... You know.
And the Inquisitors have some similarities to the Nazgul, but if we're going to use that level of connection as a judging point, it means no Big Bad can ever have individually powerful minions or its a Tolkien ripoff.
And Kelsier... Isn't Gandalf, pretty fundamentally. Also, the same point as above.
>>140680920
>those Attack on Titan "anime otakus" etc
How many times have I met a self-proclaimed 'otaku' and 'total anime nerd' who hadn't heard of Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Berserk, Monster, the name of Osamu Tezuka or Jojo (mind you that was before the 2012 anime at which point EVERYONE OF THESE FUCKERS KNOW JOJO and like to act like they are hardcore fan even when they haven't read the manga).
>>140679896
Dune.
>>140681315
Self-proclaimed otaku are a fucking joke anyway.
>>140680562
>Even Disney stuff like Pirates of the Caribbean with sea fantasy, what anime can be compared to that?
Literally One Piece, you retard.
>>140680139
Western television has been entering a golden age though. Movies are shit right now but TV has been improving because shit like Netflix made it profitable again.
>>140681490
True but maybe ten years back you could find one that actually knew wtf LotGH and Fist of the North Star was.
>>140681360
That's science fiction, anon.
>>140681544
They're not mutually exclusive.
>>140681544
Dune is definitely way more fantasy than sci-fi. Regardless, the two genres are not mutually exclusive.
>>140681565
They're also not mutually inclusive.
Dune isn't fantasy.
>>140681619
>Dune isn't fantasy
Eh? In what way do you justify this statement? There isn't much of a scientific basis to giant worms, spice, mentats, etc. Those are definitely fantastical elements.
>>140681619
Let's agree to disagree amigo.
There are no cartoon equivalent to anime like Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion, Mushihi, Lain, K-ON, Haruhi, Flying Witch, Sakamoto desu ga,3x3 Eyes
Literally cartoon and by extension the western fantasy literature is dead. Their pursuit of "muh realism" killed fantasy.
>>140681692
>There isn't much of a scientific basis to giant worms, spice, mentats
Except for the exhaustive technical explanations presented in-universe for them.
Hell, the novel even goes into great detail regarding the life cycle of the worms, how they relate to and produce the spice and so on.
Fantastic =/= fantasy. The fantastic is a fundamental element of all science fiction. Brush up on your Todorov.
>>140681723
>cartoon and by extension the western fantasy literature
How the fuck do you make that leap?
>>140681619
Are you one of those people that think just because something is based in space or has space travel it isn't fantasy? Most things considered sci-fi lean more toward fantasy in reality.
>>140681692
>>140681830
This is why the term hard sci-fi exists, guys.
>>140681789
Cartoons are western fantasy medium. Western fantasy literature medium consists mainly of shitty tolkien stuff or vampire/warewolf garbage love stories. There are no unique fantasy stuff any more. Even the western scifi genre is going to shit.
>>140681892
> Cartoons are western fantasy medium
I disagree strongly. Most of the good Western fantasy I can think of is in books, not cartoons.
>>140680749
>Steins;Gate
Dexter's Laboratory
>Monster Musume
Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
>Planetes
Futurama
Need I go on?
because major part of the target audience is retarded. the more stupid people is, the much simpler story must be. get it?
>>140681881
Yes, and really anything that isn't hard sci-fi is by definition fantasy.
>>140682005
>the more stupid people is
>>140681997
>steins;gate is dexter's lab
Oh lordy
>>140682015
I'd love to see what sort of 'definition' you pull out of your ass for this one.
>Fuck having a discussion when you can argue pedantics
![[Commie] Valkyrie Drive ~Mermaid~ - 01 [67AD5F69].mkv_snapshot_05.37_[2015.10.19_11.21.46].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/U6Oynv2.jpg "[Commie] Valkyrie Drive ~Mermaid~ - 01 [67AD5F69].mkv_snapshot_05.37_[2015.10.19_11.21.46].jpg")
>>140681997
>Foster's home for Imaginary Monster Girls
>>140682015
No, that's why the term soft sci-fi exists.
>>140681997
Please, go on.
>>140677343
This desu
>>140682005
In math, its called going for the lowest common denomimator. Whatever makes the most happy is also the least impressive. Most of the anime we see on /a/ is aimed at a very niche group of people. There are few that are aimed at the mass, like Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke or most of the Ghilbi films. These mass marketed films are by definition very bland and unimpressive to anyone who's watched more than 1000+ anime and read over 1000+ manga.
>>140682197
Isn't that just /a/?
>>140677688
>as it stands is a perfectly interesting place as it stands
>as it stands as it stands
>>140681997
>Need I go on?
Please don't. You're either not familiar with the shows I listed or you're excessively desperate to defend the honor of /co/.
Planetes for example is a hard science fiction show and they consulted Japan's space agency when they made it. It doesn't have shit to do with a cartoon sitcom like Futurama.
And you can look at these screenshots of Steins;Gate and decide for yourself if it looks anything like Dexter's Laboratory.
Monster Musume would probably cause a national emergency if it was aired in America.
>>140677343
How is that any different than Hollywood?
>>140682239
If you had actually seen 1000+ anime I doubt you would be this much of a pretentious faux-elitist.
>>140681997
This guy.
Are you serious?
It was a joke
>>140682363
Don't worry, anon, some of us recognized that.
>>140682363
FUCK
>>140682347
There's a difference between being able to hold a solid opinion and the need to express your virgin opinions.
Also >faux-elitist
>>140679922
K-On with guns and basic german aspects isn't good world building anon.
>>140680596
>Last Exile
I'm downloading this. It better not suck that much.
>>140682480
I hope you likeCGI
>>140682453
>There's a difference between being able to hold a solid opinion and the need to express your virgin opinions.
Meaning what, exactly?
>>140682477
tell me about basic german aspects anon
>>140682517
I'm not that big of a fan of it, but I enjoyed Sidonia so we'll see.
>>140681892
Almost everything in every period has been shit. Nothing is currently going to shit. It already is
>>140680139
I agree with you. I got tired of American popular media because nowadays it mostly consists of gritty crime dramas and other shit that tries too hard to be dark and mature. Then you have comedies which are most referential unfunny shit like Big Bang Theory. Anime has a lot more variety in what it can do since it's an animated medium. You can have serious stories, over-the top comedies, cute girl SOL, mecha, idol, harem, etc. As for examples this season, you'd never find shows like Tonkotsu DJ, Macross Delta, Unhappy, or Kuromukuro in Western media.
>>140678315
>I think people in general underestimate just how much effort Tolkien put into his works
The guy couldn't even into logical technological progressions, how races would realistically apply magic to daily life and how the fuck geography even works. He was a terrible "world building" with infantile ideas and even worse writing.
>>140682530
German names and Helvetia has basically sited inside German borders.
>>140680280
I agree it did it pretty wall.
>>140682775
Western audiences have a compulsive dislike of anything that's too far "out there"
This is a social trend that's been focus-grouped to death, which is why television plays it incredibly safe by and large and refuses to risk anything on a show that hasn't already been done before and approved by the public majority.
People in general are poor explainers. If the premise or setting or hook of a show requires more than a very simple sentence to explain at the office water-cooler, the person doing the explaining makes it sound less appealing than it actually is, and comes across as a nerd. It stifles word-of-mouth advertising and inevitably stigmatizes the fanbase, restricting it from mass-appeal. Studios hate that, so they keep the premise and driving concepts behind their shows simple enough that any common denominator can share it amongst themselves and allow it to serve a social function.
This is also a big part of why television compulsively avoids science fiction. If your description of the show includes the word "scifi" then you're automatically going to turn a lot of people away, because that genre has been so stigmatized in the west
>>140682995
Anon please
>>140680280
I liked it too, although I agree with >>140680596 that there could have been done more with the world the author created
>>140677255
Xam'd had good world building.
Too bad the rest of it was shit.
>>140681892
>consists mainly of shitty
d'uh. sturgeon's law applies there just like everywhere else.
>>140683015
Yeah, TV is more mainstream than anime is in Japan, so they pretty much have to go with safe premises to appeal to the masses. Thankfully anime is more of a niche than regular TV so they can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want as long as they can make money off of merch. I'm well aware anime has it's limitations but still far less than in the West.
>>140681500
not even remotely the same but at the very least One Piece is unique unlike seasonal anime
It's cringey when anime does their world building because they do it almost entirely through exposition.
>>140683673
You don't even watch "seasonal anime," do you?
>Haibane Renmei
>Trigun
>Aria
That's three.
>>140683777
He probably just reads the descriptions for the LN adaptations and calls it a day.
>>140683777
>responding to "seasonal"-posters
>>140683777
I don't know how many 'trapped in a video game' animes I need to watch before I don't need to anymore
>>140683971
Then don't fucking watch them. You have anywhere between 30 and 50 shows to choose from.
>>140683971
It can't be more than ten, since that's about as many "animes" as have that plot.
>>140683712
just get arai or wakamoto to do narration, problem solved
https://youtu.be/Ev9lpK0iwm4?t=92
Japan has never been very original when it comes to fiction. Just look at their atempts at mythology, It's a copy Greek mythology, but it lacks the poetic turn of the Greek masters.
>>140684134
Why are there so many people in this thread who clearly don't watch anime?
>>140684219
Anon, he just accused ancient Japan of ripping off Greek mythology, he's clearly kidding around.
>>140678217
This is actually a good point just because a show doesn't have world building doesn't make it bad but just an aspect of the story.
>>140684134
>It's a copy Greek mythology
>Copy of a mythology from a culture oceans apart they have not interacted with at the time same mythology was being form
Good lord. People are stupid in here.
>>140677255
Japan can't even do an anime about life outside of Japan without making them eat Japanese Food in Japanese Style while speaking Japanese.
>>140677688
you got no idea what the fuck world building even is.
World building isnt "creating a new planet/world/universe for your characters to live in", World Building is "bringing the world of the story to life by making it easy to grasp and get lost in as a viewer/reader"
You need good worldbuilding even when you have a story play out in the real world. fucking.. The Godfather for example has really good worldbuilding because it brings this "mafia-world" close to the viewer, you get to understand what world it is that the characters are living in, what their environment is, what the social norms are, etc.
You need worldbuilding in every single fucking story ever written and has absolutely NOTHING to do with creating Fantasy Worlds. The only connection between fantasy and worldbuilding is that worldbuilding is just more important for fantasy stories since we cant compare anything that happens to our own world.
Finally, think about your above average slice of life show like Non Non Biyori and realize that it does a ton of worldbuilding in the first episode to make you understand what its like to live in the country. The characters themselves even go "oh wow this is the countryside after all". Understanding the environment that the characters interact in, what the social norms are, etc. etc., THATS worldbuilding
Educate yourself
>>140679896
Bitch, I will own you if you want to fight me.
ITT: people who don't know the difference between lore building and world building
>>140684492
>while speaking Japanese
You want the whole anime to be in English?
>>140684540
>Bitch, I will own you if you want to fight me.
4chan is an 18+ website.
>>140677559
Not really.
>>140677255
It used to be able just fine and it's why I got into it then new cynical producers and ideas got into it and started to call all the shots and now everybody just kind or plays it safe and to their whims. A lot of creative types have started leaving Japan's media scene period or are trying to start over as independents using kick starter and foreign funding and the like to get around it but it's hard cause the big producers monopolize all the popular talents and publicity now via schemes like anime consortium Japan and the new age otaku just really by into what they are selling
>>140684657
>200 posts
You're late, were you sleeping in or something?
>>140684657
Instead of crafting all these theories of what you think anime is like, you could actually watch it.
>>140677255
Berserk is pretty good
as is one piece
as isnarudo, to a degree.
gurenn lagann is also cool, very compact though.
Psycho pass, though inconsistent, tackles very interesting themes in both it's story and it's world.
Fate/sn is very good, at least it forces weebs to learn a little history.
Honestly, I don't think that the percentage of trash settings varies much in anime compared to other media.
>>140684963
Thank you for proving that newfags exist on both sides of this argument and not just on OP's side.
>>140684589
I'm getting expectorated at the thought.
>>140680705
Yeah you can. Remember when Pluto was a planet?
>>140685199
Unfortunately, there isn't a governing body of online buzzwords to create official definitions, so the situation's not quite the same.
>>140685253
Yeah, but that makes it even easier. You don't need to submit proposals to some academy, you just need to shift public consensus.
>>140685253
>there isn't a governing body of online buzzwords to create official definitions
But there is.
That's our job.
>>140685117
Did you want me to say getter robo and the legend of galactic shitters? Didn't care about both, sorry.
>>140677688
Or you know, people find it interesting that the anime takes place in a completely different world from our own, or in a place that is an extension to our world, or even the future or the past world. Examples would be Patema Inverted, Angel Beats, Death Parade, Sora no Woto, Shinsekai Yori... well, a lot of shit. Especially those RPG worlds like SAO for instance. Haven't seen SAO myself but the world itself seems interesting.
It's interesting as fuck watching different worlds from our own and immersing yourself in that universe. It makes you want to know more. Take the movie Avatar for instance. That world is cool as fuck.
>>140681997
kill yourself back to /co/
>>140677255
You just disproved yourself by posting the best world building anime there is. Shin Sekai Yori is a fucking masterpiece. Only Haibane Renmei comes close to it.
>>140684657
True.
Video Games had an exploision of creative talent in the 90's, because there wasn't much material to draw from on how to make a good Video Game, so people were more willing to take risks. Now most developers just copy what came before them because publishers know the tried and proven methods on how to create a Video Game that will sell to a mainstream audience.
There are always exceptions, of course.
>>140685519
You're just reinforcing it, shitter.
>>140685606
>Shinsekai Yori
I love the show to death, but it is exactly what OP is talking about when he says Japan+fantasy trope=setting.
>>140686353
But it is set so far into the future and the world is so different that it's like an entirely different one.
>>140684657
>It used to be able just fine and it's why I got into it then new cynical producers and ideas got into it and started to call all the shots
What? Did you get into anime during the '70s?
>>140677255
Zegapain had pretty neat world building.
>>140677255
>when you realize that the 'DEEP LORE' of dark souls trilogy is just norse mythology in generic western fantasy world like every other jrpg.
>>140687914
I didn't know Final Fantasy VII and VIII take place in a generic Western fantasy setting.
>>140688129
1 through 6 did. as did 9. are you really some autistic faggot that gets triggered whenever someone says 'always' and wont shut up until they correct themselves and say 'many' or 'most', even though you would have taken offense to those terms as well because REALLY YOU JUST WANT TO ARGUE WITH PEOPLE, ISN'T THAT RIGHT ANON?
>>140678852
Try reading some western fantasy novels like Stormlight.
>>140685525
>Take the movie Avatar for instance. That world is cool as fuck.
Or the Avatar television cartoon.
>>140688333
I didn't know Chrono Trigger, Guided Fate Paradox, Akiba's Trip, Persona, Xenogears, Eternal Sonata, Hyper Dimension Neptunia and Valkyria Chronicles take place in a generic Western fantasy setting.
Also FFVI most certainly doesn't take place in a generic Western fantasy setting.
>>140682775
Going to have to disagree with you.
When you talk about "referencial" shit, anime and light novel comedies reference way more often for no reason.
I recently read the Oreimo light novel and I didn't like how many references it had to other mediums. They weren't parodies or satirical references, but just references.
Right now, no anime has made me laugh as much as Malcolm In the Middle or Fresh Prince.
>>140688563
No. Faux-anime shit.
>>140688676
No bully, Anon.
Please.
Thing is that LNs like have authors that don't do research.
They can have them speak japanese and speak another language in canon like Gurren Lagann.
But why do they have them follow so many Japanese customs? Why not create a new culture?
>>140688758
I'm pretty sure that in most Western fantasy characters just act like Westerners, usually modern day ones.
Otaku suck. I'm not a fan of anime that pander to otaku delusions. I also don't like "comfy" shows where the characters do nothing but hang out with no trace of comedy or plot.
That's all. I don't have to watch them. I don't have to discuss them. I can do other things.
You guys can do other things as well. No matter how shit something is in your opinion, it will always have at least one group of fans.
Your run of the mill re-incarnation story obviously has a lot more flaws than just bad worldbuilding.
They normally bad characters. In a sense that they don't have proper motivations or reasons for their behavior, they're just there to fulfil an archetype.
They normally have generic plot lines that have been seen before. The author's don't know how to convey emotions.
The West have lots of crime drama. Yet I watch something like Fargo and I'm still intrigued despite it being "yet" another damn crime drama.
Does that statement really matter? Of course not. Your opinion is your opinion. If you watch a show and hated it, I can only change your opinion if I give you a new perspective that makes you say "wow!" Like giving you all the cool things that you missed and debunking myths.
But if a show is "boring", then I can't change that. Nobody can change that.
If you think the worldbuilding is "bland", nobody can change that. You've had your impression of the series and it's going to stick.
>>140689120
Shit, man
What I mean to say is enjoy whatever, think whatever.
This is entertainment, not politics or philosophy.
My example of Fargo was in a sense that no matter what you tell me about Fargo, I still won't forget that I enjoyed it. Even if you point me towards plot holes, I'll just realize that it's not that good, but the memory would be the same. I'd still remember enjoying it.
>>140689120
Why do people write like this? It's so fucking annoying.
>>140689464
Really? I'll stop then.
>>140689120
>I'm not a fan of anime that pander to otaku delusions.
How do you know they are pandering, and what makes you think otaku can't tell the difference between anime and real life?
>I also don't like "comfy" shows where the characters do nothing but hang out with no trace of comedy or plot.
It sounds like you've never even watched these "comfy" shows.
>>140689508
My point was that nothing you or I say will change our opinions. If you like "comfy" shows, that's fine.
If a certain series makes you laugh and I tell you how it's inferior humor because of how much it drags on or something, it's not going to change the fact that it made you laugh.
Right now, why are you trying to say that I've never watched any "comfy" shows?
>>140689641
>Right now, why are you trying to say that I've never watched any "comfy" shows?
If you had, you would know that almost all of them are comedies and that they don't necessarily lack story progression.
>>140689775
Okay. Sure. Let's say I agree with you completely and accept my defeat.
What now?
>>140689855
>I agree with you completely and accept my defeat.
Am I even on the same website anymore..?
I don't mean that negatively anon. I'm not the guy you're responding to, nor do I really agree with your (fairly inarticulate) points, but the site needs more people like you. Be well anon.
>>140689855
Has anyone ever told you that you're annoying?
>>140689988
>>140690015
The irony is palpable.
>>140690015
Sure they have, anon.
Many people have called others annoying. Many people have been called annoying.
>>140689988
>>140690636
>retreating to phoney subjectivism to save face
This is actual, literal damage control and it's hilarious.
Are you 15 by any chance?
>>140690944
Anon I'm not really sure what you're referring to, but you seem like a fairly unpleasant person. I'm going to have to ask you to not bully me or the other, nicer, anon.
>>140683971
I really don't get why this has become a thing
Are otaku's imaginations so rotten and crappy that they have to self insert and fantasize about being in a reality were they are still exist as a shitty looser in the real world.
Isn't it more appealing to self insert into a reality with no connections to one's real life?
>>140691378
I wonder why it is that otaku are constantly accused of being self-insert maniacs when they regularly partake in anime with no male characters in them, and create doujinshi with no male characters in them.
>>140691574
This. I want to be the little girl.
>>140677559
Explain further.
>>140691906
He can't. It doesn't.
>>140678583
It is easy to make idol anime.
Sora no woto did it but being confined to 12 episodes meant it didn't fill in it's world.
You can't rely on another writer to expand on your work and you will simply write yourself into a corner eventually. It's best to leave it out entirely and expand the series if the story you're telling continues to be popular or you end up with something like Magi. It could have easily been 700+ chapters but will probably end this or next year. The writer spent so long fleshing out it's backstory that the cast in their current state seemed much less interesting in comparison while other characters didn't deliver on their hype.
You're left with flash back arcs and no matter how interesting a flash back arc is it will always feel like filler. Info dumps and constant references to past scenes whether the reader/viewer experienced these are also pretty much filler as nothing is actually going on in the plot.
With weekly shows, you're essentially telling the reader that the story you're currently telling is complete shit. That they will have to wait for the current arcs to be over, and eventually more characters and territory will be introduced before they can read something interesting. People will just lose interest.
>>140679335
This, why are westerners such cancer and don't know how to appreciate LN characters?
>>140679806
>"Wow a human acting like a human"
>"Same shit, why do you even watch this?"
Gee, anon, I wonder why you watch anything.I know you don't watch shit, don't even need to answer me.
>>140692139
This.
The important thing is that it feels like there's a world, not to spend ten years infodumping it's entire history.
