In terms of design this is way better that ssg or ssb
>>140474403
It is.
And to anyone complaining about magic pants, they are still canon in Z and Super with the fusions.
>>140474403
True, but not by much. Both ssg/ssb and ssj4 are pretty shit transformations.
>>140474567
I think 3 is by far the worst.
>>140474403
The hair is good
It's the best transformation yet. It's not just goku with a coloured aura or different length of hair.
>>140474471
>fusion
It's a fusion, it's logical unlike SSJ4 transformation.
>>140476900
>jacket appears out of nowhere
Logical.
>>140476900
>It's a fusion, it's logical
>>140476943
>fusion isn't magic but SSJ4 is.
>GT
>>140477015
They are both transformations that bring magic clothes. Same exact thing.
>>140474403
In terms of faggotry OP is way more faggot than narutofags or bleachfags
>>140477061
If that was true then why SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3 didn't have magic clothes? But SSJ4 just does because fuck you.
>Fusion is a magic technique to bring out powerful warrior that does odd things, galactic doughnuts, stardust breaker
>>140477198
It's clear that it's a more drastic transformation. None of the other SSJ need tails either.
Because it made actual sense,
>Goku could turn into a monkey and he gets more hair the more he transforms so let's make the 4th transformation show that
Too bad it was attached to GT
>>140477236
Too bad it wasn't even canon, it was something Toei farted out and that was a SSJ4.
>None of the other SSJ need tails either
Because it was useless and destructive.
Its more creative design than the thinner red/blue super saiyan. And more faithful to the original.
>>140474403
The SSJ4 design is the only good thing about GT.
>>140477335
original what?
>>140477469
Monkey form.
>>140477534
Are you saying Red/Blue Kaio-Ken Super Saiyan isn't staying faithful to the original?
>>140477331
It makes sense to need a saiyan trait to bring out full saiyan potential.
I don't care if it's canon, it's still better.
>>140477534
that was neat but inappropriate when the key to become a true martial artist and master of the universe is to control the ki
>>140474403
Its a good design, and I was pretty hyped for it.
GT was an okay series. not bad or good, but okay. The thing I really liked about the series the most is that it felt like an adventure again and not just defend planet earth from thing.
>>140474403
Yes
>>140477605
>I don't care if it's canon,
Ok that's all this discussion was needed. I'll just let you enjoy this fanfiction of Toei's.
>>140474403
I honestly always thought it was the only good thing to come out of GT. The hair is sweet and I liked how they brought back the whole monkey motif that got dropped completely way back in the saiyan arc.
>>140477668
The discussion was always about whether it was better you fucking troglodyte. Go rub semen into your fucking eyes.
>>140477664
The setup could've perfectly mixed DB adventure with some DBZ action.
It ended up so boring though
>>140477753
Don't reply to baits.
>>140474403
Agreed. SSG/SSB are literally deviantArt tier recolors.
>>140477827
B-but...
People want 30 episodes worth of screaming. That's the reason GT sucked.
>>140474403
>In terms of design this is way better that ssg or ssb
Well, duh, both are da oc tier.
>>140478094
>>140474403
Because SSB is not a design, it's a lazy as shit recolor.
>Red fur and black hair despite being a smaller form of the GOLDEN GREAT APE
>magic pants
>less hair than ssj3
It's a good design, but it doesn't make sense as a continuation of the Super Saiyan scale. It should have been something separate. Like, if Goku had been the only Super Saiyan like he was supposed to, this could have been Vegeta's personal power-up that allows him to keep up. Explain it as a partial Oozaru transformation that gives him the power boost without the inconvenience of the increased size, or something.
>>140474920
fuck you faggot. SSJ3 is like getting strenght from monkey. fucking savage.
It doesn't make sense that it's SSJ4
SSJ2 & 3 came from strengthening their predecessors to go beyond their limits, while SSJ4 only required a Golden Great Ape. Hypothetically, Goten could've bypassed 2 & 3 if he kept his tail and learned SSJ. And that just doesn't seem logical for the supposed fourth stage.
>>140477198
Wasn't SSJ4 not acquired through conventional means like SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3? The first three were basically train enough, get really pissed and scream hard enough. SSJ4 was something like maintaining a sense of self as a golden ape or something. Maybe where the gold pants came from. I dunno, I haven't watched GT in over a decade, I'd rather keep it that way
>>140480882
Also, while I'm at it, let's not forget SSJ4 somehow just said fuck the magic of the black star dragonballs and would revert Goku into an adult again. Something something magic is going on
ssj4 was best for a "final" transformation than ssgod, kinda liked the concept of turning into monkeys again
>>140480683
Monkey strength is 10x. Super Saiyan 1 is at least 50x.
Animeonly dumbass.
>>140480882
It's just a name, anon. Like "Super Saiyan God despite not being Super Saiyan at all.
>>140474403
at least it isn't just going yellow to blue, and now they're acting like ss3 doesn't even exist, it's only yellow or blue
>>140481033
SSBlueKaioken is faster than time.
SS4 is stronger than magic.
>>140481366
>The most powerful aspect of the Kaioken is that the stronger you are, the more times you can multiply it
>Being Super Saiyan, which is extremely strong, apparently made it impossible to multiply
>Only SSB is strong enough to withstand the multiplication
DBS is retarded. Why doesn't he just turn into SSB2? Much much stronger than SSBKaioken, and much safer too.
>>140481473
>Being Super Saiyan, which is extremely strong, apparently made it impossible to multiply
>Only SSB is strong enough to withstand the multiplication
You don't understand how Super Saiyan cannot combine Kaio-ken because of the rage. Kaio-ken require ki control and endurance, SSB got it worked thanks to ki control but only for temporary.
>>140476943
>>140477061
That's no jacket, just a little bit of chest hair
>>140481473
Please note both Super Saiyan transformation and Kaiohken drain stamina and cause body stress
The Super Saiyan transformation would probably both enhance the drain and stress effects, therefore using Kaiohken while transformed would mean an exponential drain\stress.
With the "perfect control" of God Ki, the side-effects of Kaiohken could be reduced making it usable while transformed in Super Saiyan Blue
Likewise, Super Saiyan Blue 2, if such thing is even possible, would require transforming with the God Ki... they just aren't at that level yet
If you don't believe the ki control and stress, see ie; SSJ3.
>>140481839
Oh so we're just gonna ignore the Cell Saga? Or the fact that SSB is literally nothing but the normal Super Saiyan transformation with their God Ki, therefore subject to the same "rage issues"?
>>140481904
>Please note both Super Saiyan transformation and Kaiohken drain stamina and cause body stress
The Kaioken does. The Super Saiyan doesn't to any noticeable degree. It's not an issue that ever came up until SS3. Fuck's sake is everyone pretending Goku and Gohan literally spent several months in Super Saiyan form with no issue?
And I don't see how mixing Super Saiyan and Kaioken is supposed to be simpler to just doing Super Saiyan 2 with god ki.
>>140482029
>Cell Saga
Then why you don't see it anymore after Cell Saga?
There you go.
>>140482136
So you're saying I'm wrong and that DBS is not retarded because Toei and Toriyama forgot their own plot point?
>>140477664
I will defend GT to the death, but I also acknowledge that everything at least pre-Lood tries to ape DB in an uninspired (read: bad) way, I get that they wanted to do wacky adventures as a nod to how DB started, but shit just drags half the time and feels like a glorified filler arc, and the worst incarnation of Trunks ever as a leading man doesn't help much either
I thought everything after was cool as fuck though, as everything in GT felt like a genuine threat considering how shit was pretty bleak as far as DB goes, or maybe I just like seeing brutal (for the sake of brutality) shit in DB for a change
>>140482224
>Toriyama forgot
Again with this meme.
>>140482257
If he supposedly writes Super, and Super's plot forgot, then he forgot. That simple.
>>140482292
Going Kaio-ken while regular super saiyan will not help at all, get this through your thick skull.
>>140474403
This is going to be Super's final super saiyan form.
>>140482388
>Going Kaio-ken while regular super saiyan will not help at all
But going KK while being regular super saiyan but with God Ki somehow does because reasons.
>>140482497
Okay regular super saiyan is better than super saiyan god form.
>see Vegeta vs Cabba
The power between is too great.
>>140474403
its a better design but I do like that they brought kaio-ken back.
>>140474471
isn't SSJ4>Magic
https://youtu.be/NsXdfyIMmJ8
>>140482584
Are you actually stupid or pretending to be retarded to "win" the argument?
SSB is regular supersaiyan with God Ki. That's it, they literally said that's what it was.
People seriously think that shitty design is good? Black hair, red fur on chest, magical pants and a red tail? What kind of drugs were they smoking?
Give me the simply blue hair super saiyan over that pile of shit anyday of the week.
>>140474403
It's far more creative and looked like a good mix between Ozaru and Saiyan.
I do like it, especially the hair. I'd certainly say it's my fave transformation on Saiyan's, right behind Broly's for some reason.
>>140474403
They should bring it back in Super as Vegeta's way of keeping up with Goku.
Goku could go down the route of perfecting Kaioken Blue while Vegeta visits Salad and gains this because reasons.
Red fur could then be explained as having something to do with the red glow SSG had so it doesn't just come out of nowhere this time.
>>140482750
Broly's design is "Machine of Mass Destruction" distillated. He's like Hulk Hogan, except bigger, stronger and meaner.
It's a really nice simple "Legendary Super Mass-Murderer of DOOM" design.
His Super Saiyan 4 Full Power look is great, too.
god mode was a mistake
>>140474403
Indeed.
Then again SSJ4 is the final flashy transformation staying for the series.
In DBS we might go to another level that looks more "creative".
>>140474403
Hairy and barbaric
How a saiyan should look like
>>140483077
His boots and manacles are kinda shit but his pants and whatever's that belt shirt thing are pretty great.
>>140474403
and this is the best version, ssj4 with golden fur and hair.
>>140483569
would like it if ssj4 was called something else and once perfected they look like that pic and thats whats called ssj4
how did we go from this
>>140483960
to this
>Tail cut off
>Has to become a golden ape then revert back to his SSJ4 form
How autistic is /a/ to think this is better than SSB? This board has been going to shit for years.
>>140474403
Wrong. It looked gay and retarded, even as a little kid I didn't like it. Everything from the dumb hair, eyeliner, pink fur and yellow eyes and pants was just bad. SSJ1 was the only correct design, and if it means that we'll just get variations of that rather than this stupid shit, then so be it.
>>140484009
toriyama needs to get out
>DBZ
>Goten is the same height as Trunks
>>140484214
>5 years later both look the same except Goten is now short as fuck.
8 years old in DBZ and they looked older than they do in Super. Fucking Super sucks.
>>140484068
>author of the story need to get out of my headcanon
>>140484275
For fucks sake Gohan was 5 in Namek and looked older than Goten who is supposed to be 13yo in Super.
>>140474403
>GT's SSJ4
>actual progression towards a fusion with the most powerful saiyan form (monkey)
>Super's SSJG
>they're just so strong that when they unlock their power their hair turns blue
>>140482711
So if SSB is SSJ with God Ki instead of normal Ki why is there no Ascended SSB/SSB2 etc?
>>140484522
>Implying Super has ended already
>>140474403
>Furry
>Eyeliner
>>>/mlp/
>>140474403
Fuck this competition shit.
Let's just fuse the forms.
And then fuse the characters.And then fuse the fusions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRP6IWh1M4g
>>140485040
it's likely going to be possible in DB Fusions
>>140485153
all i want is ssj4 gogeta potara fusion with ssj4 vegito
>>140485040
If Pan & Videl fused, how would their families react?
All they have to do is reintroduce tails to make it canon. Why don't they just do this?
>>140474403
Idisagree
>>140486406
>All they have to do is reintroduce tails to make it canon
well it's not that simple because SS4 = GT poster boy
I still would like it return but I don't think it's so cut and dry.
>>140484607
Because he'd be much stronger than beerus can't have that.
Honestly though SSBxKaioken should already be stronger than Beerus. SSB alone should probably be, but they nerfed the power boost of the super saiyan really hard.
>>140486374
Their relationship with Gohan would get a little awkward.
>>140487738
You mean hot.
>>140474403
it's definitely better than ssj3 at least
>>140484484
>authors can't have shit ideas
>>140483569
the red fur is kind of stupid in context but I have to admit that it looks aesthetically better than gold fur
No
>Not liking SS5
Kek
Never thought I'd live to see that day where SSJ4 was actually looked more well upon than a canonical SSJ form
What an age we live in.
nope super saiyan 4 is dumb
>pinkish red
>eyeliner
>makes you an adult for some reason
>takes zero effort as long as you can go ss1 and see a moon like vegeta
ssg and ssgss are way more toriyama
also i really like goku's 'f' outfit and ssb with kaioken, it looks great
>>140491258
>Pink hair
>Makes you skinny for some reason
>Takes zero effort as long as you hold hands with five people
Uhuh.
>>140484517
>Gohan was 5 in Namek
HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE?
YOU'RE SHITTING ME! HE WAS 5?!
>>140477060
Super is so fucking BORING compared to GT. And I don't even like GT.
>>140491582
Yeah, he was 4 at the start of DBZ. So was pan at the end, but at least she wasn't a pussy. This is why you don't forbid goku from bonding with his kids via martial arts.
>>140490992
>that fucking skirt
>>140491645
Either I forgot this, or I never knew in the first place.
Fucking hell, I wish Goku was my dad...
>>140491670
It's not a skirt.
Also, I like that design
>>140491809
Goku's kind of a shit dad. Great trainer though, but at least the saiyan blood's a definite plus.
>tfw no SS4 waifus
>>140491869
>Goku's kind of a shit dad.
I dunno man, like you said the blood is a plus, but he teaches solid morals, consideration, tenacity and determination, self worth, discipline and he eats like a beast.
10/10 would emulate.
>>140491931
>but he teaches solid morals, consideration, tenacity and determination, self worth, discipline
He doesn't really teach any of that, and he's not really around. But he does live by it more or less so at least he's be a role model save for regarding family relations.
>>140492016
>He doesn't really teach any of that, and he's not really around.
Those that can't do, teach. I like to learn by way of example. So he would be a solid teacher to me.
As for not being around to much, I would go SSxxClingy just to stay about.
>>140481365
>5 righteous Super Saiyans put their power into a 6th
"Super Saiyan" God
For all the shit GT gets, at least it had a way better ending than the one Z had
>>140492092
>a fetus
>super saiyan
>>140492165
Don't point fingers at me, I don't write the fucking show.
>>140492120
the AMV was good but not the Goku Jr vs Vegeta Jr bullshit.
>>140492092
5 saiyans, not 5 super saiyans.
And then vegeta did it by himself lol.
SSJ4 is the best ultimate form. Unlike super blue that's just a hair dye, it feels like the pinnacle of the inner power of a saiyan being controlled
>>140492217
>And then vegeta did it by himself lol.
he never did the ritual or became a SSJ God.
He straight up just skipped that form completely and just learned how to sense and control (not leak) Ki to be able to mold God Ki.
>>140492120
and the music was amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xis_kD7ALc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsEtAWk5OQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23OHK1KG6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUXp9gAz2KA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4N1YBT8CtE
>>140492189
I agree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgO9qhw1FvY
Every time I see this I get teary eyed because at the time, this was my perfect ending.
>>140492284
Yes, and that's fucking retarded.
>>140492303
You're missing the best trackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCa4LaDFqJU
>>140492217
Ah you're right. No idea why they all go SSJ for the ritual then.
>>140491258
>pinkish red
Only Goku had pinkish red. Vegeta, Gogeta, Broly and Gohan have proper red.
>makes you an adult for some reason
Because a child's body can't handle the power. This idea was reused in another popular shonen manga just last week.
>takes zero effort as long as you can go ss1
So does SSB.
>>140492386
Wrong one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux4LVGZGhX8
>>140492303
>>140492386
You know... I only just realized Super reused the "universal Dragon Balls" story from GT. Huh.
>>140492591
>You know... I only just realized Super reused the "universal Dragon Balls" story from GT. Huh.
The bullshit Black Star Dragon Balls that magically was around all around are shit.
>>140492639
Both black star dragon balls and the super dragon balls are utter bullshit, its just that one is non canonical shit and the other is toriyama made shit.
>>140492795
no the Super Dragon Balls are limitless which leads to a progression above the normal balls.
The Black Star Dragon Balls are utter trash with dumb gimmick rules like the host planet exploding a year later.
>>140492882
They're both retarded anon.
>>140474403
its more creative but still very shitty since it isn't relateable to the other ssj forms
>>140492338
>With the shitty US dub music that ruins the tone.
>>140492338
>perfect ending
you poor song of a bitch, that terrible music change and shit added in, not the actual perfection that was the original Japanese and all the other dubs that it justice.
>>140493773
>>140492338
The ending was fucking retarded music or no music.
>>140493827
kek, poor americans man, I feel sorry for you.
>>140493918
Says the retarded spic that actually liked GT.
>>140493827
I watched GT with the english dub and the Japanese music and it's 10x better. in fact, the whole show is 10x better with out the dreary, depressing, bleak, shitty music that ruins the tone of the show playing nonstop in the background.
>>140492120
>>140493827
A lot of unanswered questions involving Goku.
>>140494024
l:^) That sure is some nice edgy music ya' got there mate, Burce Faulconer I tell ya, he sure did some great shit, clearly above the original right? Yeah I bet it is, that's cool though, I'm keep over here listening to the real deal though.
>>140491582
He was about 11-14 in the Cell Games & now early 20s at most. For comparison. even Vegeta was late-20s to early 30s on his first appearance.
>>140494325
You're more retarded than I thought if you think I was talking about the music.
>>140492591
Anon, Super has been reusing shit for a while now. How many times have we seen Frieza reappear in the non-canon works?
>>140492882
Actually, the Black Star ones & the Shenrons are a direct consequence of using the Dragon Balls. If anything, it showed that the Dragon Balls aren't a magical "wishing everyone back to life deus ex machina" kinda thing.
allow me in 3 posts, to prove that Goku from GT, as a SSJ4 is stronger than SSJB Goku from Super.
lemme brake it down real quick
SSJ = 50x ones base power
SSJ2 = 100x ones base power
SSJ3 = 400x ones base power
ok now on to the tricky part
>Oozaru = 10x ones full power
So here we have some discrepancies, but for humors sake, lets just say its times 10x base
>Golden Oozaru(SSJ x Oozaru) = 500x ones base power
This form also has limitless power while under the full moon
SSJB =greater than SSJ3 by unknown amount.
Given that Vegeta, at his maximum rage, quoted as finally surpassing Goku's strength, was said to be equal to 10% of Beerus' power, this means that Goku's strength (SSJ3) is around 10% of Beerus full power.
SSJG = 60% of Beerus' full power (Araki said on the cosmic scale, Beerus is a 10, SSJG Goku a 6, and Whis a 15.)
So SSJB = around 80% we can assume given that he still isn't around Beerus' full potential yet (and only impressed him when using Kaio Ken)
So back to GT, we know that SSJ3 Goku is weaker than Baby, who is somewhat of a SSJ3.5 himself.
However, Once Goku turns SSJ4, he is easily capable of trumping him, and even being a stage greater than Golden Ape. So its safe to assume he is at least double this seeing how he shrugged off Baby Vegeta's Death Ball with just pure will power.
so SSJ4 is around 800x times ones power.
As I explained earlier, SSJ3 = 10% of Beerus' full power. SSJ4 would be 20%
Dragon Ball Super is right after Z, Goku's base form is the same, he hasn't trained that much more. So the boost he gains from God ritual is MASSIVE.
However, SSJ4 Goku from GT has had 13 more years of training compared to Super's Goku. So while his transformation is only 1/3rd as strong, he would have a WAY more powerful base form, and given that Majin Buu becomes like a fly to him in SSJ4, it shows.
So if we were go by raw stats of the math assuming Goku has had 13 extra years of training. SSJ4 Goku from GT would be stronger.
>>140494438
Well I was originally so why would you change the subject is beyond me.
>>140494546
Now there are 3 factors that make or break this:
>1. Can SSJ4 use KaioKen
>2. What is the difference in Strength of Super Goku and GT Goku
>3. What are the power limits on both.
Unlike SSJ1 which can be maintained indefinitely, both SSJ4 and SSJB have been shown to be taxing over time and push their user until they have to de-power. While Goku has maintained SSJ4 for extensive periods of time, SSJB doesn't seem as maintainable, but seems to be more adaptable the more you train with it like SSJ1.
If SSJ4 can kaio ken (which is should, as it is a form based around a calm mind and taming your saiyan feral mind) without a doubt SSJ4 GT Goku would win by the pure output of his boost + more training making for a greater exponential power level.
If not, Super Goku could easily close the gap between him and GT Goku's training years base power via Kaioken, but then it comes down to how long can he maintain it. At the end of the day, Kaioken is the most taxing form on the body par none.
SSG Goku = 6
Beerus = 10
Whis = 15
>>140494558
I specifically said "music or no music". Read, nigga.
>>140494600
(The following is assuming the person in question is Goku at the end of the Buu sage)
SSJ3 = 1 on Cosmic scale
SSJ4 =2.5 on Cosmic Scale
SSG= 6 on Cosmic Scale
SSB = 8-9 on Cosmic Scale (Still not caught up to Beerus)
Beerus = 10 on Cosmic Scale
Whis = 15 on Cosmic Scale
So given that, SSG is more than double the boost of SSJ4, and SSB is more than triple that. So in terms of forms, SSB and God are better in every way.
However, considering that all of these forms are based on the individuals BASE FORM, SSJ4 Goku from GT still wins, because he has had 13 more years of training than Super's Giku.
Example:
Z's Goku's ending BASE power is say 1000.
Super's Goku would be able go 32,000,000
(SSJ3 is 400x base power, and SSJ3 is 1/8th that of SSJB)
However, GT's has had 13 more years, and assuming he only get 1 time his power per year, GT's Goku's base power would be 13,000.
So factoring that in, his power in SSJ4 would be 52,000,000.
So mathmatically, SSJ4 Goku, from GT, is 1.625 times stronger than SSJB Goku (assuming no Kaioken on either side)
GG, GT wins.
>>140494463
>the Black Star ones & the Shenrons are a direct consequence of using the Dragon Balls
except it's not, they literally just pull the Black Stars out of nowhere in episode 1.
I agree having consequences is good for the plot but all they did was just make an excuse to travel in space, and the planet even blew up when it didn't have to.
>>140494546
A lot of the base multipliers are incorrect and you are making a bunch of assumptions.
Throw in the fact that gt isn't canon and this whole post is a bad.
>>140494670
Toriyama stating the 6,10, and 15 power levels for the BoG movie is pretty much outdated now with Super, RoF, and the Universal Tournament arcs that came out since this interview.
>>140494546
It's funny, the Kaioken just completely shits on the already very poorly thought out powerlevels of DBS.
Even if SSB is ony 20% of Beerus' full power (and it can't really be), using Kaioken x10 would make him twice as strong as Beerus and a good deal stronger than Whis as well. But it seems they're implying he'll still be below them.
>>140494831
this is a shonen manga, how do you know that Beerus and Whis can't amplify and multiply their power levels themselves? Calculating all this is bullshit to begin with.
>>140494886
I think I want to watch the tournament arc of Dragon Ball Super and endure grandma Goku.
>>140494546
Sometimes I think people blew those comments out of proportion. They were just some aside comments by Toriyama in some random interview, and people have been using them like they're words of the gospel.
I mean, if we're SERIOUSLY going to debate numbers like this, why would Goku need a Kaioken x4 to beat Vegeta, if he was over 8,000 and Vegeta was 18,000?
This is why combining power levels with multipliers is always a bad idea. It assumes you have to do complicated maths equations in your mind while watching a show. Which is not what I watch this show for.
>>140494325
Bruce Faulconer didn't make the shit music in GT.
>>140495026
>why would Goku need a Kaioken x4 to beat Vegeta, if he was over 8,000 and Vegeta was 18,000?
Because the Kaioken was quickly wearing him out so he was losing out on the beam duel despite being stronger, so he had to multiply again to blow him away. That was easy.
You do realize they call authorial comments "word of God", right? Besides, Toriyama's ratio makes sense, it's super shitting all over it what doesn't.
>>140495158
He causally threw out some numbers and the fandoms started scribbling down equations and power scaling from there. If the SSB was 80% of full power Beerus then he should be stronger than him by a large margin in that form, yet Beerus and Champa weren't all that worried. Power levels are bullshit.
>>140495158
those numbers are from the BoG movie, which is pretty outdated. Nothing to take too seriously considering we're 2 story arcs past that.
>>140494546
>Dragon Ball Super is right after Z, Goku's base form is the same, he hasn't trained that much more.
For BoG, Goku's base form was still considered to be weaker than Frieza's full power. Then in RoF, we saw his base form match Frieza's fourth form after Frieza trained and got a massive power boost.
>>140495279
>He causally threw out some numbers and the fandoms started scribbling down equations and power scaling from there.
That is literally what numbers are for. Toriyama is admittedly bad at numbers (he had to be corrected when he said Super Saiyan was a 10x power boost), but the thing is, the Ratio he gave about Goku, Whis and Beerus makes sense, and deviating from it causes plotholes. Like SUper.
>>140495353
See above. It being "outdated" doesn't change much, because any big deviation destroys all of the already flimsy logic that held BOG and DBS together. Kaioken is the perfect example: if he's not stronger than Beerus already, this means his SSB form is 10x weaker than Beerus, and the entire point of the SSG was that Beerus needed an entertaining fight.
You can't be entertained by someone 10x weaker than you. Half as weak or so is more or less believable.
>>140494546
>>140494600
>>140494670
You're again wrong.
Goku is only 4 times stronger in GT at most, based on the fight against Rildo (Rildo is as strong as Buu, Goku had to go Super Saiyan 2 eventually to match his strength).
Even if you were right on the multipliers (you aren't), Goku only ends up at 16,000,000 as a Super Saiyan 4 in GT. Blue is still twice as strong even if he was behind in base power (and he probably isn't; his fight against Frieza confirms his base is stronger than he was as Super Saiyan 3 in Z).
Super Goku is just too strong. Blue is better than Four.
>>140495452
Kaioken isn't something that should be used for long periods of time though. It's just a temporary power boost that comes at a cost. If Beerus can last long enough with SSB with KKx10 for a while, then eventually Goku will be massively exhausted when he leaves that state and Beerus would still win.
>>140494670
Where the fuck are you getting these numbers from anyway? I checked the numbers from the mangas and any source material an these aren't even remotely close.
>>140494670
>SSJ4 can defeat a deity saiyan form
thanks for the laugh.
>>140474403
I still feel as though SSJ4 could be used in canon, have it be a fully mastered oozaru form that can be stacked with the SSJ forms, that way we can have Vegeta discover it first so he can catch up to Goku.
>>140484275
Wasnt Gohan 12 when he killed Cell?
>>140495529
The thing is, in Super the multiplier of the SS form is pretty much nerfed to almost nothing. If it was still 50x, goku going super saiyan would make him like 20x stronger than Beerus, because his base form absorbed a lot of his God power enabling him to continue fighting Beerus in base. So at base he's something like 20-40% Beerus' power. 50x that would crush Beerus like a bug, but turning SS or SSB doesn't seem to change his level by a factor of more than 2 or 3.
>>140495618
I'd like for it to return, but many fans would have mixed feelings considering Toriyama didn't design it.
Overall SS4 is a pretty big part of my childhood and it would be pretty neat for them to take it from GT.
>>140495688
I think at this point it's not a clear multiplier. I think it's even been said that they're better off just training the SS1 form to better control ki, since the other forms, most notably SS3, just ends up draining their strength faster.
>>140495798
It's more that toriyama wants to dial back the super form multiplier bullshit since even his senile ass is aware having your mainline fighters necessarily be 300x weaker than the enemy is kind of a problem.
That doesn't mean this energy drain / anxiety bullshit makes any sense. Goku stayed a super Saiyan for something like six months with NO fucking energy drain problems and a completely calm mind.
>>140495794
I think with the explanation I provided a lot of people would see it as saving a cool concept from outside of canon. So long as it's not explained by 'BLUTZ WAVES LMAO', and involves some measure of training to accomplish. It does seem like the sort of thing Vegeta would look to achieve, given that this was his powerup while Goku's was the kaioken.
Also, the form itself is cool and while the purple gloves are faaaabulous and very 90s, I'd rather see it return without the magical outfits.
>>140495688
And yet that anon was the one using multipliers to justify his theory that GT was stronger.
This is also completely ignoring the fact that Vegito, who is confirmed to be equal to Super Saiyan 4 Goku, is weaksauce compared to Beerus. Goku makes it clear that fusing again wouldn't stop Beerus.
Alternatively, logarithmic scaling, base 10, if you want to stick by the 6 - 10 - 15. Think Richter scale.
7 is 10 times stronger than 6.
8 is 100 times stronger than 6.
9 is 1000 times stronger than 6.
10 is 10000 times stronger than 6.
>>140495983
>Alternatively, logarithmic scaling, base 10, if you want to stick by the 6 - 10 - 15. Think Richter scale.
Are you literally brain damaged? What's the point of giving a ratio if it's in a different number scale?
>>140495983
>Alternatively, logarithmic scaling, base 10, if you want to stick by the 6 - 10 - 15. Think Richter scale.
>
>7 is 10 times stronger than 6.
>
>8 is 100 times stronger than 6.
>
>9 is 1000 times stronger than 6.
>
>10 is 10000 times stronger than 6.
So I'm supposed to believe Beerus was entertained and satisfied fighting a "God" that was 10000 times weaker than him.
Ha.
>>140496042
>>140496076
Key word there "if."
Not saying it's true. Just saying that IF you want to stick to the 6 - 10 - 15 numbers (which Toriyama probably never intended to be "hard" numbers in the first place).
>>140494546
Bills>SSJ3 Vegitto>SSJ4 Goku.
>>140496156
>which Toriyama probably never intended to be "hard" numbers in the first place).
There's a fucking difference between "soft" numbers and a goddamn logarithmic scale. Again, there's zero sense in making the comparison if you're gonna claim 6 was 10000 times less than 10). And again, a 10000 times weaker opponent would not have entertained Beerus one bit, making Super Saiyan God completely pointless.
Toriyama said what he said. It just so happens its hilariously fucking wrong by the show he's supposedly in charge of.
>>140495529
You're so wrong. I don't think you even watch gt. Gt rildo first form ki is stated to be stronger than any form goku has faced (buuhan) rildo changed into new form and ultimate form at ultimate form goku changed into ssj1 but it is stated in gt eventhough he changed into ultimate form goku still play around and hiding his true power. So it is implying in any form of rildo goku can trample it in base form newkun.
>>140496317
It's for those who insist on the 6 - 10 - 15 ratio. Given how weak everyone but Whis was in comparison, God Goku really would be the best fight he's had, enough to entertain him. Not beat him, but entertain him compared to everything else he's fought.
>>140496296
You're so wrong not even vegitto strongger than baby vegeta ssj2 it is stated in anime
>>140496564
Direct quote: "This guy's as strong as Majin Buu." Goku fights him as a Super Saiyan, has to go Super Saiyan 2 eventually. Adding to this, Pan is apparently stronger than Majin Buu.
Also I recognize those run-on sentences, Ultimatefag leave and go back to your fanfiction.
>>140496802
Stupid newfag your damage control showing punching someone is not prove that rildo weak he just playing around. Goku has faced buuhan goku state it as boo in general. So he will compare it withh the strongest because being non honest is not goku's habit and nature that's the reason he can ride kintoun. so not even whis is stronger than ssj2 baby vegeta 2 as stated in the gt anime.
>>140483569
imagine the red one ssj4 (like it is) and this golden one ssj5 or ascended ssj4 or whatever
GT was great. The final arc, the final episode and teen Bra made it all the worthwhile. No disrespect to Super, I'm loving it as well. Fuck the canon mystic gohan bullshit, Dragon Ball went back to being Dragon Ball with Buu, admittedly got botched with GT and is coming back in full swing with Super.
All you Z faggots can go away.
>>140497429
No, he directly compares it to Majin Buu, the one that the three of them are most familiar with. Pan doesn't know of any Buu other than the one who lives with Grandpa Mark, Goku's statement is for her benefit as much as it is for the audience. Any other instance would have had a special note, as in "Stronger than Buu after he absorbed your dad."
And Pan still kicks Rildo's ass pretty hard.
Ultimatefag please, you're the one who clearly didn't watch the episode. Not that I blame you, it was pretty shitty.
>>140497657
>Teen Bra
She's 8.
>>140497766
No matter the age, she's sexy.
>>140497766
Then she's a big fucking eight year-old and my thirteen year-old dick wanted to split her hymen.
>>140497667
You're ab idiot keep masturbating. He talk to rildo not pan and i don't think pan has any relation. She may be stronger than buuhan. Who knows and who cares. You're a stupid basing thing with your masturbatory logic and assumption. That is a fact take it or leave it faglord newfag. I'm done it has been obvious not masturbatory theory like yours.
>>140497766
>8
my mind says no but my dick says "awwww yisssssssss"
>>140497667
You can keep crying and masturbating those are facts.
>>140497888
>>140497933
I've made direct quotes, they're from the Rildo fight. I've shown context, even provided pictures. I've presented the facts. You're the one who seems to be upset over this.
>>140497837
>>140497848
>>140497893
How do you feel about this scene?
>>140498228
I enjoyed it.
>>140498228
a child boner if my memory serves me correct.
>>140474403
It could be better.
But at the very fucking least, it puts some goddamn effort into it.
>>140482029
Here we fucking go, now it's time to throw out our series of excuses as for why you can combine Kaioken with SSJ.
Decades of people arguing why it couldn't work together now flipped on it's side because it came out in Super. Super can just do no fucking wrong, can it?
>>140484275
I don't know why they're bothering, it's not like they're letting them do anything.
>>140492303
I never really cared for the BGMs in GT, or at least I never really listened to them that much.
The OP/ED themes though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHCwfRupjKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEC1XYsohDE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OeYwdKcP0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkz73alCi80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl49WYaXuG0
Magical
>>140498794
Because Super acknowledged those very reasons that it couldn't be done. SSJ was too much of a strain, even after Goku tried to make it more natural to be in. The higher states of power required the rage still and kaioken required a calm and focused mind to control the power flow.
SSJB doesn't require rage at all, it's completely compatible with Kaioken, though still hard to control as Goku said.
>>140499091
DAN DAN is one of the few things GT did right, even the remixes are great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKHRQwCljlQ
>>140499091
>>140492488
man so much nostalgia...
Bullshit. Goku's regular design and ssj are better than ssj4, and all ssg and super cyan are is a palette swap of ssj. Go fuck yourself. keep beating off to your never canon fan animations dilhole.
>>140494546
But GT Goku trained Uub for several years where as Super Goku trained with Gods and Vegeta for what? about four years counting Time Chamber time?
The design is fine.
The colours just ruin it.
>weird pinkish red
>calf shit yellow
>>140504353
>calf shit
that's his pants.
>>140495881
Personally i feel Vegeta catching up via Oozaru makes perfect sense considering that Oozaru is a 10x boost, and Goku went Kaio-Ken x10 with a 90% chance of dying, so it's doubtful he can go beyond x10 currently, it would also make sense in theme as Goku has achieved his new level of power via his first controllable transformation, so Vegeta gaining a massive boost to power via his own first transformation would be a great call back,
Imagine a Kaio-Ken SSB Goku vs Oozaru SSB Vegeta fight that calls back to the Saiyan Saga and would be the last fight in the series.
It makes no sense compared to the prior transformations and has magic parts for some reason.
GT was worth it solely to hear Baby mock Goku with a 'monkey throwing poop' joke.
The more I watch Super, the more I want to rewatch GT.
