Are there any more ambitious MC than Emperor Lelouch?
>>140377730
Hitler-sama.
Tried to create a weapon that kills the enemy and give power to the people.
Lelouch is a plebian compared to glorious REINHARD VON LOHENGRAMM
>>140378148
LOGH is shit pleb
>>140378202
Far better than the garbage that is code geass
>>140378148
Not really. Reinhard becomes shallow and boring as hell after becoming Emperor, on top of the series general problem of Reinhard and everyone else insisting that they're smart to the audience and then proceeding to do nothing smart at all (Code Geass suffers from this too, not to the same extent though) The only way you could argue for Reinhard over Lelouch is to bring up LOGH's larger scope, though it doesn't particularly impact Reinhard's characterization much and is just part of the setting.
LOGH > Geass in general, sure. That's not what OP is talking about here though.
>>140377730
Are you joking?
>>140377730
Ted Cruzumaki gonna rasengan all the candidates and become the 45th Hokage
>>140378148
SIEG KAISAR RAINHADO !!!
>>140378291
>Not really. Reinhard becomes shallow and boring as hell after becoming Emperor
Less interesting perhaps, shallow is pushing it though
>>140378291
OP is talking about ambition.
One conquered earth, the other a galaxy.
I mean are you mentally impaired? One clearly had slightly bigger ambitions than the other.
Even if we ignore the size of the settings all lelouch had to do was replace his daddy and he had the world in his palm more or less.
Reinhard had so overtake the empire and then conquer the FPA and wage an absolutely massive war to do so. Lelouch at most had to play terrorist until a way to succeed the current emperor fell into his lap ontop of his magic eye powers letting him do it even easier.
Lelouch's ambitions were plebian-tier compared to it.
>>140377730
Griffith from Berserk, his ambition causes a demon sacrifice.
![[HorribleSubs] Sword Art Online II - 06 [720p].mkv_snapshot_06.51_[2016.04.19_12.55.16].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wuCKYX9.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Sword Art Online II - 06 [720p].mkv_snapshot_06.51_[2016.04.19_12.55.16].jpg")
>>140377730
>Lelouch wants to rule over one country
>Are there any more ambitious MC than Emperor Lelouch?
Pfffft. Kirito takes over whole worlds and adds to his harem. Get this chuuni anime shit out of here and let's talk about a REAL anime, like Sword Art Online.
>>140378432
Ooh true story. Griffith is a sick bastard. First eclipse alone is darker than most normal junk
>>140378502
GET THIS SHIT OUT OF HERE
>>140378148
you mean Yang, right
Reinhard was just a whiny autist
>>140378510
make me faggot
>>140378508
I question if the likes of VON LOHENGRAMM
can compare but I must say I would pledge allegiance to VON LOHENGRAMM over Griffith if given the choice since one ends with me possibly still alive
Defeated a literally omnipotent being and ends an aeon spanning tyranny of all the universe's spiral races
Demonbane
>>140378630
eh but he's about as ambitious as lulu, TTGL isn't that much more over the top than geassing the fucking will of humanity
>>140377730
Lelouch is a fag who didn't even fuck CC and Kallen.
Pic related is the most ambitious MC ever in the history of nipponese works
>>140378630
You're right, Boota was pretty ambitious
Easily.
>>140378552
Don't you have a ninja clan meeting to attend?
The MC of Horizon on the Middle of Nowhere wants to start a World War to make his DEAD girlfriend have emotions again and then HE DOES.
>>140378291
You just hit on one of my biggest peeves. The show says the character is a genius, but that just means that they somehow can predict everything that is going to happen with no real logic.
Say what you want about Death Note, but I think it does a great job at making L and Light actually seem intelligent. I think characters can only be as smart as the author.
>>140377730
Lelouch was not all that genuinely ambitious, honestly speaking, though he did want the power to change the world
I was just rewatching CG again and I forgot how ridiculously fun this anime was.
Why don't we get anime like anymore?
>>140378412
Lelouch still needed to conquer the rest of the world, not just Britannia, but obviously there was a lot less time in terms of episodes to pull that off.
Let's not forget Reinhard was originally doing all this for his sister though. He continued after that ,but he was similarly one-track minded at first.
>>140378845
Klk was the last anime that sort of compared
>>140378804
It's a pretty commonand correctcriticism of LOGH and a lot of anime involving "strategy" in general - the MCs often aren't clever, the rest of the cast around them just become very dumb to accomodate them.
As far as LOGH is concerned the characters themselves are still good though. It's what carries the entire show in fact.
>>140379097
Honestly, LoGH made me cringe more often than it made me appreciate the writing. The highschool politics 101 speeches that are made to seem like they're supposed to be really smart, the incredibly obvious military ploys, especially Yang taking over the fortress, it was all kind of painful to watch.
The characters were pretty enjoyable when they weren't being "smart", but that's about it.
>>140379097
>It's a pretty common and correct criticism of LOGH and a lot of anime involving "strategy" in general - the MCs often aren't clever, the rest of the cast around them just become very dumb to accomodate them.
The problem is that characters can only be as intelligent and knowledgeable as the author(s) that write them. If you want a good political/strategic anime/manga, the best way to do it is to have a writer (or someone advising the writer) with experience in these fields.
A bit like how the guy that writes Shokugeki no Soma is friends with an actual chef, so the recipes make a vague semblance of sense.
>>140378845
CG was a fluke. I can't think of any other anime that pulled all the ridiculous shit CG did and ended up a really good series.
>>140378845
There's shit like vvv, aldnoah, guilty crown, etc. It makes me think that geass gave birth to a whole subtype of anime, the failed geass attempts.The first one of them was geass R2.
>>140379863
Geass R2 is great though, despite how ridiculously stupid it was.
>>140379935
Well it has ep 21 and the ending going for it, but shit was pretty rushed and the asspull per minute ratio is horrific.
>>140378804
This desu
Lelouch, Light, the brothers Elric, and Simon.
Lelouch and Light try for utopian societies free of strife, the Elric brothers attempt to create life, and Simon has a drill that will pierce the heavens, and maybe higher.
>>140379266
>It's a pretty common and correct criticism of LOGH and a lot of anime involving "strategy" in general
>t. Anon (17), High School Dropout
How about you tell me what the issue with the """strategy""" was?
>>140381143
Was meant for >>140379097, but >>140379266 might as well humour me.
>>140381143
>>140381171
Iserlohn is taken by the most obvious ploy one could come up with. It literally would have been countered by just IDing people before they enter the fucking control room of the most, and in fact, due to the retarded layout of the map, only important fortress at the time. This isn't even a Trojan Horse scenario because at least there it's somewhat believable because you know both factions are highly superstitious and the Gods actually exist. This is a highly advanced space-age civilization that can't even be bothered to pat a group of people down before letting them into the most important room in the universe.
If you say "the point was to show how fucking retarded and complacent many people in the empire are, particularly the old ones" then I agree. I agree and add that it's the most boring scenario you could come up with. Watching retarded people being taken advantage of by slightly less retarded (but still retarded enough to think this plan would actually work) people is not exciting. It makes me cringe that someone would actually write this and think that it was enough to make me believe Yang was a smart character.
>>140378412
Your understanding of world in general is shallow, both feats requires you to do you the same thing essentially. Scale and time frame is always irrelevant. It's the process.
>>140378630
you forgot to mention
>destroys and recreates the entire universe
>has a metaphor for his dick hundreds of times bigger than the universe
I'm not sure if sticking it to your dad because of your mommy complex is exactly ambitious.
>>140381400
This has little to do with "strategy" - the strategic part would be "capture Iserlohn" rather than the actual execution of capturing it. And it was indeed a Trojan Horse scenario at least in the sense that the constraints of warfare are blurred by the protagonist Yang Wen-Li, quite akin to Odysseus. Whether it was well written is a different story, but one should consider that LOGH does not feature a "high tech" sci-fi, but something more anachronistic - and very intentionally so.
>Watching retarded people being taken advantage of by slightly less retarded (but still retarded enough to think this plan would actually work) people is not exciting.
What you should consider is the limitations of what you can show on screen and deliver to your audience in a limited time. Often enough people bemoan a supposed stupidity on the side the opponents, but most of it is usually present in the form of mannerisms and visual cues rather than actual actions. Also, what should be considered: too intricate plans would not work properly, not to mention that it's the simplest of plans that are usually successful. The more factors come into play, the more likely the plan is to fail.
Criticisms of this sort are usually uttered by people who want signal to others how educated they are, in the same sense as leftist writers virtue signal to their audience. However, they usually fall flat, since they miss that they're dealing with audio-visual fiction here, which comes with its own set of constraints in regards to storytelling.
>>140381743
>This has little to do with "strategy" - the strategic part would be "capture Iserlohn" rather than the actual execution of capturing it
Nope, "strategy" encapsulates both the motivation and the execution of a plan or action, if anything the execution of it is the more important aspect of this.
>Whether it was well written is a different story
It's actually the discussion being had here.
>Criticisms of this sort are usually uttered by people who want signal to others how educated they are
Doesn't apply here, this is an anonymous image board.
>>140381743
I'm not the guy that mentioned the particular word strategy, I called them ploys and plans. Not that it's relevant, we both know what we're talking about.
>Whether it was well written is a different story
This is what I'm arguing. I'm saying it's not well written because the ploys don't fit how the rest of the universe reacts to them, that is, they are in awe that Yang managed to take advantage of retards. It's not well written because it ruins my immersion seeing people get lauded as the smartest general around after using a tactic that anyone could have seen would be ineffective.
>one should consider that LOGH does not feature a "high tech" sci-fi, but something more anachronistic - and very intentionally so
I realize this, but regardless of the intentions, it does not fit the ploys.
>Criticisms of this sort are usually uttered by people who want signal to others how educated they are
Wew boy. Sure, alright.
What ticks me off about the show is not that the plans are simple. I enjoy lots of shows with far stupider plans. It's that the show presents itself as smart and mature, and the characters as smart and good at tactics, while simultaneously showing them only beating retards with plans that only work because they assumed their enemies would be retards.
>However, they usually fall flat, since they miss that they're dealing with audio-visual fiction here, which comes with its own set of constraints in regards to storytelling.
Then I suppose the writer should have been made aware of these constraints and not attempted things that apparently couldn't work without extreme dumbing down, which in turn ruined the believability of the characters and setting.
That said, I don't think you're right. I believe it should technically be possible to tackle complex tactics in a visual medium. In fact, I think a visual medium would be way better a way to convey them than a text-based one, as maps and armies can be shown to the viewer rather than vaguely explained.
>>140382314
>Nope, "strategy" encapsulates both the motivation and the execution of a plan or action, if anything the execution of it is the more important aspect of this.
Clausewitz defines war as an act of violence in order to dictate your political will to your opponent ("purpose" of war). The "goal" of war is to render the opponent defenceless, and this goal is seen through by what he calls "strategy", which may be the eradication of enemy troops, the capturing of enemy resources, and so on. Strategy would determine the capture of Iserlohn an objective, but it would not dictate how Iserlohn would be captured. Strategy determines the battle, what wins the battle is called "tactics".
>It's actually the discussion being had here.
I would argue it's written well enough due to what I told you about the limitations of visual media. And I've justified the anachronisms in regards to the setting. I don't know what you'd be expecting instead of it, factually, I don't know shows which do a better job than LOGH in regards to a wholesome portrayal of warfare. Criticising a show when there's nobody else who does a better job is fruitless.
>Doesn't apply here, this is an anonymous image board.
It still does apply, because I see mostly ones own ego stroking in posts like this.
>>140378588
Yeah I dunno if I'd follow Griffith. He's pretty twisted
>>140377730
Obviously
>>140382658
>I realize this, but regardless of the intentions, it does not fit the ploys.
And I say it does.
>Then I suppose the writer should have been made aware of these constraints and not attempted things that apparently couldn't work without extreme dumbing down, which in turn ruined the believability of the characters and setting.
"ruined" is a rather strong word. If LOGH is "ruined" in that aspect, then pretty much any anime in existence is "ruined" too, and we're essentially wading through post-apocalyptic wasteland - which obviously can't be the case, so we'll have to use a better metric here, that captures better what's going on here.
I'd hold against it in any case that I believe it's not easily possible. If you want to get across to your audience who the smart guy is who's doing the right thing, the easiest way to achieve this is by giving the other guy the mannerisms of someone not-so-smart. Otherwise you'd have to give an ungodly amount of exposition every episode to make the audience realise what's going on - which possibly a good part of your audience is going to miss anyway.
>I believe it should technically be possible to tackle complex tactics
If they had shown literal real life tactics the very same people would be bemoaning how basic and easy to see through they are.
Tactics aren't exactly a complicated thing: they can't be complicated because they need to be executed in the heat of battle and are subject to the frictions of war, making all too elaborate planning pointless.
It makes me laugh when I see anime with all too elaborate planning, depending on all kinds of factors that can go wrong, that it would make Clausewitz spin in his grave.
Luckily, LOGH spares us a lot of that, even though it is occasionally at fault in that regard too. What it does however, is deliver a rather wholesome picture of warfare, reminding the viewer that things outside of the tactical realm exist, which sets it apart from similar shows.
>>140382749
>Criticising a show when there's nobody else who does a better job is fruitless
Gundam 0079 does it better. While it mostly only implies tactics in the background of the simple action the show is built around, it has actual interesting plans that involve the setting of the show and the unique layout of the strategic map, that is, the fact that one faction is mostly space-based and can drop down mostly anywhere, and the other is centered on earth and can't get to space unless they get to specific bases that have rockets large enough to get their robots off the earth makes for more interesting and natural "choke points" than LoGH's rather dull approach of
>we'll just place one choke point in the middle of the map
I'll admit, I loved those maps in RTS games as a kid, just throwing units at a choke point and watching the firefights happen, but it does not make for interesting intrigue.
Add to that the unique concept of the "rumor of newtypes" and using that rumor to force the focus of the enemy on specific troops in an attempt to distract them, regardless of the actual existence of newtypes.
These are interesting ploys that involve the nature of Gundam's universe, all from a stupid "robot of the week" show.
>>140383100
>Tactics aren't exactly a complicated thing: they can't be complicated because they need to be executed in the heat of battle and are subject to the frictions of war, making all too elaborate planning pointless.
Then "tactics" may have been the wrong word. I'm not a linguist. I am referring to Yang's plan to take Iserlohn, which he did take time to prepare for, and did plan from the comfort of his crib. What I'm trying to say is that given the setting we have been shown in the show through the visuals, there is no way he could have ever believed the plan he came up with would work.
>"ruined" is a rather strong word
Sure. It was severely hampered by stories that didn't fit the setting and broke my suspension of disbelief.
>>140382749
>>140381743
Why are you arguing semantics? You damn well understand what >>140381400 is talking about, and this is a casual forum. Yet you're the one accusing others of stroking their egos?
The format of the anime in no way restricted what the writing involved with how the Capture of Iserlohn played out was like. The core complaint people have is that, with what we see, it's hard to understand why the MCs are praised as geniuses in-universe. That's all.
I'm sort of baffled that people are even arguing over this, it's generally agreed on here that the "battles" are the weakest aspect of LOGH. That doesn't ruin the series outright either, that's just a minority of people on here who can only speak in hyperbole for some reason.
>>140383503
>it's generally agreed on here that the "battles" are the weakest aspect of LOGH
Good. It's a shame whole episodes are spent just looking at battles, the weakest aspect. If it was just the more political and character driven side of things I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more.
>>140378804
>characters can only be as smart as the author
That's why the Bean books from the Ender universe are complete shit.
>>140383352
>While it mostly only implies tactics in the background of the simple action the show is built around, it has actual interesting plans that involve the setting of the show and the unique layout of the strategic map, that is, the fact that one faction is mostly space-based and can drop down mostly anywhere
While I haven't watched the earliest of the Gundam shows, pretty much anything I've watched that was Gundam related (Wing, X, Seed, 00, 0083, Unicorn, ...) fell flat in that regard so I'm highly doubtful whether this particular show does a better job.
>natural "choke points" than LoGH's rather dull approach of
LOGH covers a lot larger area, and the choke points are never even explained in detail. They are merely asserted to exist, and it's somewhat implied that they serve navigational purposes forcing them to follow certain routes.
>It was severely hampered by stories that didn't fit the setting and broke my suspension of disbelief.
I think you're applying double standards here, since I could argue that the very concept of "Mobile Suits" should already break any suspension of disbelief - yet in the above mentioned case it does not?
>>140383503
>I'm sort of baffled that people are even arguing over this, it's generally agreed on here that the "battles" are the weakest aspect of LOGH.
Generally agreed by whom? I have yet to see a proper criticism of them. In most cases it's uneducated nonsense, spouted by half-wits who are trying to make themselves look educated on the internet. Most of the criticism is purely about aesthetics - and these are a quite deliberate choice. Criticism of the tactics displayed is pretty much impossible since the show is way too stingy when it comes to technical details to make any kind of assessment. And a supposed lack of spatial manoeuvring (which does happen) is very rarely given a lot of thought, since planar manoeuvres would be generally preferable when it comes to flanking.
>>140384320
>I think you're applying double standards here, since I could argue that the very concept of "Mobile Suits" should already break any suspension of disbelief - yet in the above mentioned case it does not?
It's definitely subjective, but it's not a double standard. These are different things I'm suspending my disbelief for.
Gundam is set in a fictional universe where mobile suits are an efficient way of waging war, due to all kinds of excuse reasoning that can be traced back to the fictional Minovsky Particle. This is pure fantasy, and I can accept that the world Gundam is set in works this way. The same goes for newtypes. People that grow up in space would normally likely die to the higher background radiation, but in the UC universe they somehow end up getting better reflexes and intuition.
Meanwhile, LoGH's setting is a much more grounded one and yet I'm supposed to believe that nobody acts like a normal human being. Most old people are literally just there to look stupid for the MCs to appear smart.
The subjectivity here is that I can apparently handle fundamental rules of the universe being different, but can't handle characters acting in ways that they shouldn't considering what has been shown in the setting. It's in no way a double standard, but of course you felt differently about it as it is mostly subjective.
You won't see me pretend the reasoning behind mobile suits is well written, but it is less offensive to the characters in the series than LoGH's plague of complete idiocy in an entirely serious presentation.
>They are merely asserted to exist, and it's somewhat implied that they serve navigational purposes forcing them to follow certain routes.
Indeed, and I don't consider it an interesting map. It's highly standard, and feels contrived.
>Wing, X, Seed, 00, 0083, Unicorn, ...
0079 is slightly better at it than those as it has some interesting ideas, but yeah, it's mostly just in the background to imply a bigger war being fought.
>>140377730
A character with one ambition that she pursues with absolute resolve?
>>140377730
That dude from trinity seven
>>140377730
>>140384792
>Meanwhile, LoGH's setting is a much more grounded one and yet I'm supposed to believe that nobody acts like a normal human being. Most old people are literally just there to look stupid for the MCs to appear smart.
This is much more of an issue in pretty much anything Gundam related I've watched, where characters were much more caricatures than believable people. In LOGH, the worst thing you have is someone being in charge of a fleet who seems completely incompetent in his mannerisms (not his actual actions which are rarely exposed beyond in the evaluation of the "smarter" main characters). LOGH explains this in the sense that in the Empire it is mostly noble birth which decides over careers in the military while in the FPA it is political affiliation. And these are issues that have been relevant throughout history. You may criticise that LOGH is a bit too "blunt" in its portrayal, but this is more a matter of taste than a matter of facts. I'd say it does a good enough job, otherwise too many things would be missed by the audience - especially since many of such characters aren't given enough exposition but only appear for an episode or two.
Also, when it comes to acting like a "human being" I don't know any show which does a much better job than LOGH, since plenty of people - regardless of their faction - are given believable motivations and outlooks on life beyond being a functional part of the show, where all too often characters end up two-dimensional. In LOGH you have characters who may be incompetent in too important positions (as it has happened often enough in real life) but rarely you have a Manichaeistic portrayal, which is all too often an issue in anime, including anything Gundam related I've watched.
[to be continued]
>>140385255 continued
>Indeed, and I don't consider it an interesting map. It's highly standard, and feels contrived.
I wouldn't use terms as "standard" in regards to genres that are rare in the first place. Not to mention that in LOGH this is more than mere backdrop as the operative element of warfare plays an actual role in the show.
>0079 is slightly better at it than those as it has some interesting ideas, but yeah, it's mostly just in the background to imply a bigger war being fought.
Exactly, and in LOGH it's more than background; they manage to interweave the spheres of politics and warfare in all of its facets better than any other show I know. Individually, these aspects may still be lacking (and I'd argue that even in lacking they outdo many other shows), but the overall picture that is painted is more wholesome and complete.
>>140378148
Oberstein was more ambitious, he was pretty much the de facto Emperor and acted without Reinhard's approval most of the time.
>>140385255
>You may criticise that LOGH is a bit too "blunt" in its portrayal, but this is more a matter of taste than a matter of facts
Yes, I would. And of course, as evidenced by the fact that even a single person likes the show. I couldn't stand the unnuanced way it tacked the issues it did, but clearly many people can.
>Also, when it comes to acting like a "human being" I don't know any show which does a much better job than LOGH
It may have had to do with the fact that I had just watched Seirei no Moribito, which handles conflict between two factions as believably as I've ever seen it handled in anime. Characters on both factions are likeable and their reasons for doing what they do are almost entirely understandable and seem reasonable considering their knowledge. Perhaps I went into LoGH expecting something like that but on a larger scale, and ended up disappointed with many of the throwaway characters that are just used to forcibly show how "smart" the main characters are.
>including anything Gundam related I've watched
I don't think one Gundam show can be representative of another show. Oftentimes the staff and circumstances in which they're being made are entirely different. I don't think Gundam has the best, most believable characters, but due to the less serious presentation I found it easier to believe in them.
>Exactly, and in LOGH it's more than background; they manage to interweave the spheres of politics and warfare in all of its facets better than any other show I know
Yes, but only because very few shows attempt it, which is a shame. It's also probably why I had high expectations for LoGH and was let down immensely. It fails to use them to spin actual interesting tales and scenarios, and is entirely unnuanced and almost childish in its portrayal of politics and war, which would likely be fine, were it not for the overly serious presentation making it seem like it's the smartest thing around.
considering his circumstances, pretty fucking ambitious
>>140386113
>Perhaps I went into LoGH expecting something like that but on a larger scale, and ended up disappointed with many of the throwaway characters that are just used to forcibly show how "smart" the main characters are.
I think you're blowing this aspect out of proportion. In most cases this is done for the purpose of introduction of characters, in order to allow the viewer to assess quickly whose judgement to trust in matters of warfare, or the purpose of showing the flaws of existing systems - e.g. in putting some hapless nobleman in charge in a sense of showing how the Goldenbaum dynasty is suffering from its own lack meritocratic advancement - which historically has been a problem. Compare the Napoleonic Prussian army in contrast to that of Napoleonic France for example. It's not like LOGH made these issues up - these were relevant at certain points in history. Obviously LOGH uses the means of hyperbole to emphasize these aspects, but frankly, I don't know what else you'd like to see. A show cannot be all too nuanced, otherwise these aspects would be lost on the viewer. If you have equally competent people on both sides, with decisions only turning out to be good or bad, often something rather in-between, it's impossible for the viewer to tell what's going on. On one hand, you want LOGH to tell you stories, on the other hand you're discontent when it goes out of its way to actually do this. I wonder whether your idea of realistic politics and warfare is not all too idealistic, since you apparently expect them to put exactly that on screen. If they did that however, it would likely end up being a complete mess, since most people in charge make decisions that are mostly reasonable, and they turn out wrong only within the greater picture due to them not being aware of all variables in play. It would be pretty much impossible to do this justice on screen in a limited amount of time - and LOGH is more in-depth than pretty much any other show I know of.
>>140387026 continued
>entirely unnuanced and almost childish in its portrayal of politics and war
I would argue that it does a much better job than any other anime I've watched. What other anime does even recognise that a logistic component in warfare exists and that supply and timely arrival is one of the many frictions in warfare?
I consider your whole criticism unfair, since you create this completely fictional expectation of what LOGH is supposed to do - yet nobody has done ever before in the realm of anime - and then hold it against the show that it doesn't meet this fictive standard that has never been set.
>were it not for the overly serious presentation making it seem like it's the smartest thing around.
That is your assessment. It is serious as the subject it deals with is serious and it does so in a serious manner. I found this refreshing and straight to the point. It does not hide anything in allegory, it puts things on the table in an open manner and is not afraid of discussing them. Criticising that it doesn't do this with sufficient depth is easy when no other show does this even in the slightest. Show me where it's done in a better fashion. I don't know other anime that sit down and even try to discuss political science.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mwSLGDl.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Go home thread over
>>140377730
He was probably the most outwardly ambitious MC, that actually had to work for shit, depicted ever. Hence we still talk about this almost a decade later. Well, that and a lot of other small shit. Geass did an amazing number of things right. I've rewatched a few times and I'm like 'damn, that was your turn to go off into marginal anime land, and you somehow landed safely into something I"m interested in'. Obviously that effect gets slimmer the further you go on. If only, anons, if only....
>>140387026
>since most ... in play
Exactly, this is what would have interested me infinitely more, and this is essentially what happens in Seirei no Moribito, but in a fictional universe where the greater picture is made far more simplistic.
>It would be pretty much impossible to do this justice on screen in a limited amount of time
It's got more than a hundred episodes. If that isn't enough time, then I don't know what is.
>On one ... do this
I want it to tell me interesting stories that form from the political systems that were set up. Perhaps these expectations were too high, but regardless of my expectations, if it had shown me interesting scenarios I would have enjoyed it anyway. Sadly, the scenarios shown felt entirely unsatisfying to me, despite the show supposedly going relatively in-depth.
>I consider ...to do
I understand, but I did not form this expectation out of nowhere. I formed this expectation out of the way the show presents itself, and perhaps partially out of the way people talked about it before I started watching it. There is no anime that looks as much like it would have an interesting and involved political situation
Honestly, I'm not sure why you're convinced that there has to be another anime that does it better for LoGH to not be good. LoGH in and of itself was not interesting to me for a multitude of reasons, regardless of any other show attempting similar things. I hold "being uninteresting" against the show, as I would any other show. Attempting something ambitious might be worth a few points, but not nearly as many as you're ascribing it. An attempt was made, and that's nice, but in my opinion it simply did not succeed. I wish it had, and I wish there was more like it, but it didn't and there isn't.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't consider it a success. You clearly do, I'm not going to argue with a fact. I'm just saying I didn't, and for the aforementioned reasons.
>>140387066
>It is serious as the subject it deals with is serious and it does so in a serious manner
What I'm saying is that it presents itself as serious and smart while dealing with the subject in a rather disappointingly crude fashion. This and the way many of the characters act in contrast to their serious designs felt like a huge disconnect to me.
all the restaurants anon
ALL OF THEM
>>140387815
>It's got more than a hundred episodes. If that isn't enough time, then I don't know what is.
Not nearly enough time for the intricacies of real life. It's not like you want it to be an actual fictional documentary which sums up the events. If you want in on the "action", then there is simply too little time.
>I want it to tell me interesting stories that form from the political systems that were set up. Perhaps these expectations were too high, but regardless of my expectations, if it had shown me interesting scenarios I would have enjoyed it anyway. Sadly, the scenarios shown felt entirely unsatisfying to me, despite the show supposedly going relatively in-depth.
As I said earlier: I don't know what you were expecting. Obviously nothing that has been ever done before, because LOGH goes relatively into detail and discusses things in a mature fashion. To someone with an actual interest in history and political science it was more than sufficient, since I usually don't get to see anything of that sort in anime, so it was an enjoyable surprise to actually see someone attempt it. If this wasn't still not enough for you, to trash the only show which even attempts something in this direction, I wonder whether your interest in this sort of thing is even sincere.
>There is no anime that looks as much like it would have an interesting and involved political situation
And that is what LOGH delivers.
>LoGH in and of itself was not interesting to me for a multitude of reasons
As I said: I wonder whether your interest in the subjects that you claim to be missing in LOGH is even sincere in the first place. To me it seems like it's a pretence to motivate a mostly aesthetic dislike rather than honest disappointment.
>>140378243
Wrong
>>140388333
No.
>>140388726
yes
>>140389188
This is not a matter of debate.
>>140388277
>To me it seems like it's a pretence to motivate a mostly aesthetic dislike rather than honest disappointment.
If you say so. I'm not sure why anyone would ever purposefully try to not enjoy something, but there's probably no way to "prove" my sincerity beyond getting a fucking degree and uploading a picture of it.
That said, I never claimed to have a serious, deep interest in history or political science. What I have is an interest in seeing complex situations with a lot of different characters unfold in a way that feels natural, and that is not what I got in LoGH. Maybe if I was desperate for any kind of coverage of political science I would have creamed myself at the sight of LoGH, but I'm not. You're mistaking my complaints for pretentious desire for more complex references to other subjects I might know about. I don't care about that. My complaints regarding the show are solely about the forced and unsubtle way the stories unfold, the morals are told and the characters act, and all of these being at odds with the mature-looking presentation that made me expect something less heavy-handed.
Again, I never pretended to have an interest in history. I do, but it's largely focused on mythology and other fiction so it's mostly irrelevant. The only thing I have an interest in is watching a story delivered in an interesting fashion, and that can't be done if half of the events and character actions feel inconsistent with the "smart" feel of the setting. I'm not saying
>the ploy used to capture iserlohn was inherently too simple to engage my superior mind
I'm saying
>the ploy was too simple to fit the aesthetic, universe and especially reaction of the characters, which took me out of the experience
>>140389295
In that regard I would say that the issues you have with a show are mostly aesthetic in nature. What you consider to be "at odds" with the "smart feel" of the show, might as well appear very different to someone else. To me, it was quite sufficient. The interactions within the Imperial faction may have been a bit affected, but even that fit in my opinion if only to contrast with the more relaxed interactions within the FPA. I can see why certain stylistic choices may have appeared a bit too "blunt", e.g. certain characters acting more stupid than their rank would indicate, but what is to criticise there would be more the execution than the device itself, which was deliberately chosen for reasons I've already elaborated on. In the end, it's more a matter of taste, than a general issue.
>>140389634
Of course.
>>140378148
SIEG KAISAH REINHARDTO, SIEG NEUE REICH
Johan.
He's fighting fate itself and no one ever notices.
>>140377730
She was just a normal pink-haired schoolgirl who decided that she would become God.
>>140391633
That's not ambitious at all.
A decision is not the same as the road traveled.
>>140391734
Her road wasn't that long but she was willing to die for her ambition.
>>140391734
The road she travels never ends for she resides outside time. Checkmate atheists.
>>140379863
VOTOMS and came first.
>>140391734
She must constantly destroy every single witch in the present, the past, and the future. For the totality of human existence she needs to keep traveling the road she's picked. And at the end of that road she will have to destroy herself. All to serve her ambition and have things play out the way she wants.
Dying would be a kinder fate.
>>140391809
That's stupid. She didn't know what would happen to her after her wish. It was not ambitious because she did nothing.
>>140391964
>She must constantly destroy every single witch in the present, the past, and the future.
Her wish makes this simply an assured constant, not a struggle. The size is irrelevant when it becomes a law of the universe.
Again, not ambitious in the slightest.
>>140392040
>wanting to become God and bring salvation to all magical girls isn't ambitious
I don't think the word 'ambitious' means what you think it means.
>>140391999
>>140392040
It's as ambitious as trying to turn the world into Heaven with your own two hands.
>>140392096
She never became God you idiots. She simply became a law of the universe. She's simply seen as godlike and never had any ambitions of becoming a god.
>>140392178
Except that never happened and all it did was replace one enemy with another. All it did was give purpose to a small minority of people in the world, as to not let their worthless sacrifice go in vain.
That's hardly ambitious because she did no such struggle to attain that to other people, it was simply willed into existence.
>>140392244
You don't have to struggle to be ambitious. You simply have to be ambitious. And it takes a lot of ambition to decide to change the laws of the universe when you're just a human.
>>140392385
>And it takes a lot of ambition to decide to change the laws of the universe when you're just a human.
No, it doesn't, when someone tells you that whatever you wish for will happen. An assured measure of success makes it less ambitious and grand. It's ambitious to think big, to some I guess, but it's not more ambitious than a person who struggled for a long dream that is impossible or hard to attain. What did she do to get to that point? Watched people die and then make a wish. That's it. No struggle, no goals, no hardship.
All Madoka had was a strong determination with her plan, not ambition.
>>140392244
Kriemhild Gretchen decided that she would do her best to absorb the entire world into her barrier and turn it into Heaven. It actually did happen on at least one timeline. And she was successful and destroyed the sinful world of humans.
>>140392543
>it's ambitious that she destroyed the world
Uh, great?
>>140378148
>tfw fell for the LOGH meme
the worst show I've ever seen
>>140392533
>All Madoka had was a strong determination with her plan
>her ambitious plan
So are you saying when human of royal blood decides to become emperor of the world then that's ambitious.
But when a human not of royal blood decides to rewrite the foundations of the universe, which is a kind of power that is even beyond that of an emperor of the world, then that is NOT being ambitious?
ITT: Autists fixate on the literal interpretation of a word rather than the intent of the question.
>>140392625
She decided to make the world a better place. She failed, but she had good intentions. Glad that you agree that trying to bring about world peace using your bare hands is ambitious.
More ambitious than Lelouch.
>>140392711
>So are you saying when human of royal blood decides to become emperor of the world then that's ambitious.
Yes, because there involves struggle. It's ambitious because the road to that goal is long, bloody and almost impossible to get.
>But when a human not of royal blood decides to rewrite the foundations of the universe, which is a kind of power that is even beyond that of an emperor of the world, then that is NOT being ambitious?
No, because the universe just hit the reset reboot button. That was not Madoka changing everything.
Through endless loops, Madoka gained more power towards her wish which ended up just making her into a law of the universe. The law was put on the universe and rebooted. It had nothing to do with her or the changes, just an addition.
It's not ambitious because changing the course of the entire of history was not the goal of madoka but the automated destruction of witches by her hand. The change was just a side effect of that automated destruction, hence a reboot.
It is not ambitious.
>>140392828
>destroying the world is more ambitious than creating peace
Yeah, you're just insane
>>140377730
I dont buy his video recording prediction bull fucking shit
>>140393148
He's just that ambitious.
>>140392944
Gretchen wanted to create world peace just like Lelouch. Except that her methods wound up killing every single human alive. Doesn't change the fact that she was more ambitious than Lelouch.
>>140392944
>That was not Madoka changing everything.
That's what you don't get. It was Madoka changing everything and her ambitions brought about a world without witches. A world where magical girls wouldn't despair.
Changing the world so that witches never existed in the first place was her end goal. That's literally what her wish was.
>>140392944
>striving to become emperor is ambitious
>striving to become something more powerful than an emperor is not ambitious
I'm a huge Code Geass fan but you are fucking stupid.
>>140393681
hes not striving for anything that shallow
he wants to be the world
>>140393681
More than is vague.
Are you saying helping a small number of people in the world is more ambitious than creating peace in the world? Wording can do wonders.
