What do you think of Log Horizon, /a/, and what are your thoughts to it in comparison to other VRMMO Anime like Overlord, .//hack, and SAO?
>>139639548
It was alright. At the very least it was better than SAO. Season 2 was kind of a drag.
Also Akatsuki.
>>139639548
It's the best one. (inb4 it's the only good one)
>>139639662
I don't know about "the only good one". .//hack was kind of a snorefest imo, and SAO is obviously shit-tier, but Overlord is good at least.
S2 was shit, novels were better, Yen Press sucks.
Tetra a best.
Had the most competent world and rules. Was kind of a snoozefest though.
Overlord was much more enjoyable to watch but I could appreciate Log Horizon more as a former MMO player. Both of these were better than SAO or .//hack
>>139639692
I'm 10 episodes into Overlord and it's okay at best. The first two episodes were cringe-worthy sometimes though.
>>139639548
it's cringe and it's shit.
too childish
>>139639772
You shouldn't complain about things being childish when you make childish posts like that.
>>139639548
The best of the bunch. None of the others really adequately explored the implications of life in the world of an MMORPG. Also a more interesting cast of characters than the others.
>>139639715
>Yen Press sucks.
What's wrong with their translation?
>>139639790
You shouldn't complain about people complaining about childish things when you make a childish post like that complaining about childish things.
S1 was fine and enjoyable. S2 was boring and felt like it was going nowhere.
SAO is shit, haven't watched .//hack.
I'd say Overlord is best out of them.
>mmorpg
Fucking sucks. Every single one of them are absolute garbage.
People must be extremely autistic if they prefer to live in an MMORPG instead of a pure fantasy world. MMORPGs were fucking made to let people live out that fantasy as close as technology would let them, but autistic fucks have forgotten the point and think that it's about powerlevels and grinding.
Am I the only one who didn't have a major problem with Log Horizon's second season? I mean sure it's not as good as the first, but I wouldn't call it boring or shit.
>>139639772
>muh mature animes
>>139639965
I dunno, it seems to me like your typical fantasy world would be shit unless you're coming in with some kind of unfair advantage, which everyone seems to do in your typical "suddenly transported to a fantasy world" story. At least in an MMORPG world, there are some decent conveniences and a more level playing field.
>>139639997
I didn't have a problem with it either. The pacing was slow, but since I marathoned it, I didn't really mind. I really wish they'd make S3.
>>139639965
>disregarding something just because of one of the building blocks of its setting
>pure fantasy
So you're arguing for something being completely shit simply because of a degree of separation?
Even barring that, the plot for something like "Overlord" is dependent on the MMO setup, and still manages to function coherently.
Log Horizon's plot is based almost entirely on the whole "people suddenly being sucked into a fantasy world from the real one" and focuses more on how those people adapt to their new places in life and how they interact with things and characters that they were previously more thickly separated from.
In short, your problem with MMO-based series like LH seems to be based in the assumption that you think they're entirely about "powerleveling" and "grinding", which is retarded.
Maybe actually watch the series you're denigrating before you try to pass judgment.
>>139640066
>I really wish they'd make S3.
You and me both. But even if they don't, I've at least got the light novels to look forward to reading.
>>139640085
>just because of one of the building blocks of its setting
And if the foundation is shaky or shit, (ie. autistic bullshit in this case) then how good can the setting possibly get?
And no, Overlord is hardly dependent on the MMO set-up, since you can easily extract the MMO terminology since they are in a fantasy world, and all the bullshit leveling mechanics are easily explained as the MC merely being overpowered with no decent challengers, which is another problem in and of itself. Log Horizon however has people literally re-spawning and a fucking guild house that nobody can breach due to the magic of the "system".
How the fuck can you even take a series seriously if there is no threat of death for anybody? It literally relegates anything you do to a grind.
>>139640198
>How the fuck can you even take a series seriously if there is no threat of death for anybody?
Are you being serious right now? Do you legitimately think that DEATH is the highest stakes a series can put up?
In fact, if you remove something like the possibility of death (and this is something that is rather effectively touched on in Log Horizon), then consequences for killing and the strong taking what they want effectively goes out of the window, meaning people can act with impunity, which is how things like mass oppression start. Furthermore, if nobody can die, then things like forcible entrapment and kidnapping carry WAY heavier implications than they do in a world where people can die.
And to touch on another point, if you'd actually WATCHED "Overlord", then you would know that the entire reason that Ainz wants to take over the world of the game he's in (as well as the reason he's so good at doing what he does) is because he's so invested in the world he's in.
It's decent and feels like a real mmo.
I swear the SAO guy never even played one
The mmo series airing this season and last season are better than everything mentioned in this thread
>>139639548
It had the best world building, skill mechanics and a clever use for them.
Oh, and its author is a total bro.
On a personal level i feel it captured the MMO feel perfectly, and made me think about all my old Guildmates.
Shout out to old/rog/, you all made it special<3
>>139640303
>Do you legitimately think that DEATH is the highest stakes a series can put up?
Yes.
>hurr durr all these things cary way heavier implications
No they don't. Because there's a possibility to get out from them or change the circumstances. You cannot change death.
>hurr durr if you actually watched overlord ud know taht characters in the world care so y dont u?
Yes I've watched it, and read everything released. What you mentioned has nothing to do with what we are talking about.You better not respond with something along the lines of "y u change wot I said hurr durr dats ad hominmem". Nah it's called making fun of you. Since you're a moron.
Its great, now to wait for the translation to catch up or a 3rd season, not sure if having the tax controversy going to get him anymore gubmint money for the adaptation.
>>139640303
>In fact, if you remove something like the possibility of death (and this is something that is rather effectively touched on in Log Horizon), then consequences for killing and the strong taking what they want effectively goes out of the window, meaning people can act with impunity, which is how things like mass oppression start. Furthermore, if nobody can die, then things like forcible entrapment and kidnapping carry WAY heavier implications than they do in a world where people can die.
And just because they resurrect, doesn't mean death is irrelevant. First, having lethal damage dealt to you still isn't terribly pleasant. Second, the experience after death and before resurrection is quite confronting; several characters from combat guilds gave up combat because they didn't want to face that again. And third, resurrecting costs memories, which many aren't too happy with the idea of.
But besides that, I like that resurrection is possible, because it does make the world MMORPG-like and not just an MMORPG paint job on your usual fantasy world when you have "you die in the game, you die in real life" like in Sword Art Online.
>>139639548
It's only ok, but still the best out of those bunch.
>>139640538
His pace has slowed, but we recently got a new chapter out of him couple of weeks ago. So he didn't go AWOL on us.
>>139640508
>No they don't. Because there's a possibility to get out from them or change the circumstances. You cannot change death.
You can argue that one both ways. Death is a way to escape slavery and oppression, and if you can't die you're worse off. Sure, the possibility of changing the circumstances exists, but in most cases it's a pretty remote one without some serious outside help, so might as well not exist.
>>139640508
Actually, that IS ad hominem, and you're the one who's veering close towards the shortbus end of the spectrum.
Death is not the most serious consequence you can pull out of a world. If you think it is, maybe you should go read something like Mogworld, whose entire premise is based on the denizens of its world suddenly losing the ability to die (as well as being based in a WoW-expy).
What I just mentioned DOES in fact relate to what we're talking about, since Ainz's motivation is rooted solely in the fact that he was a devoted player of YGGDRASIL before the game "shut down" and the NPCs of the world came to life.
And to cap off on the "ad hominem" thing, maybe next time you should actually try to defend your position instead of rewriting parts of my post in what I'm sure you think an autistic person sounds like, making your post more about the fact that you think I sound stupid or that you think I'm a moron rather than the actual content of my post. Protip: don't use ad hominem and then say "you better not make your post about me making this ad hominem".
gg, no re.
>>139639548
More thoughtful series but still painfully full of illusions of grandeur for self-insertions.
Compared to series with similar settings it's among the top of the group. You also forgot to mention Accel World, but I can forgive you for that.
>>139640635
>Death is a way to escape slavery and oppression
Yeah, if they're a weakling. But who wants to watch an anime about weaklings?
Even the most pitiable pathetic faggot MCs get put through more than what any average person does in a lifetime and powers through it nonetheless. Well, there are always exceptions. Like that faggot Ichika from IS.
My favorite of the lot by far.
>>139640508
I refer you to
>>139640567
It's shit, just like every other VRMMO anime.
>>139640788
>lumping all shows with a similar premise (and the premise being where the similarities stop and end) together
>>139640635
>>139640638
Anons you're wasting you're time, stop arguing with retards.
>>139640638
Let me again rewrite what you just wrote, while excising the bullshit and wankery.
>Death isn't the worst thing, because read this book
>characters caring about things in the world does relate to what we are talking about which is something to do with games and MMOs and the thing was an MMO so here it's relevant
There. Please don't ever use the term ad hominem. You have 0 clues as to what it means. This isn't a fucking debate with an audience that we are trying to please, you loser. You already have zero face with me, so why wouldn't I jab at your retardation?
>>139640769
Yeah I saw it. Basically boils down to "these things are worse than death because of how much people can whine about it afterwards". So yeah I agree, a world without death would be the worst thing ever. The amount of whining would be inescapable and make even me wish that killing myself was possible. Which is why it sucks as a setting.
Is Touno still in legal trouble by the way?
>>139640824
Those retards aren't really capable of arguing though anon. Hence this isn't an argument.
>>139640846
and it was all started because someone asked about courtesan or prostitute. Mamare is a bro.
>>139640788
It's not a VR MMO.
>>139640829
>Basically boils down to "these things are worse than death because of how much people can whine about it afterwards".
So you think that you'd be perfectly fine living chained up in a dungeon somewhere and tortured on a regular basis, with not even the possibility of death to get you out of it? If so, you've got a tremendously overinflated opinion of yourself. Everyone would break, sooner or later. The only exceptions are unrealistic heroes of stories.
>>139640829
Ad hominem isn't about an audience. It's about excising the meat of the argument (IE, the actual subject matter that's being argued about) and making it about the person you're arguing against. For example, you failing to defend your position and instead making it about calling other people faggots and retards.
Also, 1. Mogworld is actually an effective demonstration of why death isn't the worst consequence in a setting, and why some people might even yearn for death in such a situation
2. Ainz's motivation (and therefore the impetus driving the events of the entire series) is based in his devotion to the MMO. Some big points, like Ainz's battle with Shaltear, also hinge on him having items that wouldn't exist outside of an MMO, such as a "cash shop item" available only to Player Characters that decreases the cast time for a large spell.
>>139640901
I've never really been tortured before anon, so who knows. Either way, it makes a boring watch.
>>139640904
>It's about excising the meat of the argument
>and making it about something else
Yeah, like the discussion of ad hominem.
My position was defended with a mere sentence, and you still haven't countered or even acknowledged that it exists. WITHOUT DEATH, THINGS THAT SUCK CAN BE CHANGED TO NOT SUCK. I even made it all caps for you. Maybe you'll find it and comment.
>mogworld is a blah blah blah
Elaborate. Because I'm not going to read a fucking one shot by some nobody blogger just because some retard on 4chan can't articulate his own opinions.
>some big points
>hinge on him having items that wouldn't exist outside of an MMO, such as a "cash shop item"
Jesus fucking christ. How much of a shitbrained mongoloid does somebody have to be to not even realise that a "cash shop item" can easily be some fucking one of a kind item that exists within the setting shown?
And notice that anon? I both managed to insult you while at the same time providing very solid "meat". Care to comment further?
Abandon thread!
>>139641093
>Either way, it makes a boring watch.
I don't think it does. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter, but I still don't think that the threat of (permanent) death is necessary to maintain tension and make things interesting. It can be more difficult, certainly, and as we can see with you it won't keep everyone's attention. But done well, it can be interesting.
>>139639548
1st season was good fun. 2nd slowed down a bit and it was kinda all over the place. But overall I liked it.
SAO is not very enticing, .//hack was interesting but slightly confusing at times, haven't watched Overlord yet.Akatsuki is cutest. Marielle too.
>>139641093
The argument that you're making is based entirely on the assumption that the people who are in the situations that (as you so eloquently put it) suck have the power to change the situations they're in. I'm not sure if you've brushed up on your history recently, but slaves don't usually have the resources to change the fact that they're slaves.
Moving on, "Mogworld" is actually a full length novel written by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw that centers on a character in the titular Mogworld, which is a game that is planned to be a revolutionary MMO by having its NPCs and world be entirely procedurally generated that accidentally ends up in the NPCs becoming self aware within the game world. Jim (the aforementioned NPC) dies, but is brought back to life after the game devs implement programming that keeps anyone in the game world from permanently dying as part of the beta testing stage. I won't spoil anything further, but it is quite a good read (and actually pretty funny) and even if it's not for the purposes of this argument, I genuinely reccommend you read it, as well as Yahtzee's other book, "Jam".
Yes, that would be possible, but it would also require that you rewrite the entirety of the show for things to fit in, in that sense. Moreover, a "one of a kind super special item" that a main character just has for no adequately explained reason comes off as trite and boring, whereas Ainz having one because he was a player in the game fits the flow and feel of the story well, as Ainz is demonstrably the kind of player who min/maxes and saves items like that just for the occasions he's in. Trying to shoehorn in another explanation for that would more than likely derail the plot and break suspension of disbelief even in a devoted audience.
>>139641201
Well there are plot points that are interesting without death constantly being dangled in your face. Best girls, interactions with them, etc.
But without the possibility of death, and therefore the possibility of losing them, existing at all, it doesn't even barely have the same amount of impact. Time will literally heal all wounds etc.
>there's no Overlord(game)\Overlord(anime) crossover art on danbooru
This sucks
I want a story where the two overlords meet and do overlord things
How is our author doing?
>>139641286
>Ainz is demonstrably the kind of player who min/maxes
Bullshit, he even he wasn't in the LN.
He made his character for RP purposes, his entire build was based on the "evil necromancer overlord" idea, the only things that saved his ass was the fact that he was good at planning and finding counters to other players builds and strategies and the fact that he was able to get divine level gear.
>>139641286
>as you so eloquently put it
And yet your fat slab of fucking ugly text "eloquently" tells us that you're a fucking hack at any form of writing.
Instead of giving me the reason you posted the book, you choose to give me the synopsis, as if that shit means more to me than you merely namedropping it.
Thinking that a "cash shop item" would require a rewrite to BE THE EXACT SAME as a special item within the world, as it could well be seeing as the world Ainz is in has hardly been explored properly. "for no adequately explored reason" just LOL.
And yeah, that slaves bullshit you posted. What a load of rubbish. Degrees of power change over time, faggot. So even if at one stage people wouldn't want to risk anything to get free, they might at some other stage, and once again, they wouldn't risk anything in this case since not even their life is on the line this time. You know what happened to real slaves that were upstarts and bothered their masters too much? They were culled. Which, again, isn't a possibility.
>>139641607
Obvious troll is blatantly obvious.
>>139641706
Obvious dumbfuck is blatantly obvious.
i like how this thread devolved from the OPs question to ppl shit posting about death and stakes and w/e
never change, /a/
>>139641473
>he made his character for RP purposes
>the leader of a PK focused guild
Anon, onegai.
Even if he hadn't explicitly stated the guild was a PK guild, it's pretty obvious from various shit during the story.
Memorizing how to find someone without being detected, for PK purposes, having a whole shitton of super rare gear, many members of the guild foregoing actual vacation in the interest of farming out shit for the staff, and the excessive power of the guardians.
None of these things are things you'd expect for an RP guild to give a shit about.
His awkwardness while commanding the guardians, too, is characteristic of someone who never got very deep into RP.
Actually having combat-focused cash shop items, the list goes on.
>>139642348
>His awkwardness while commanding the guardians
Pretty sure that came about because he never actually commanded willing servants before, who could also potentially betray him. His guildmates were his friends, and any RP is just that; play. Its ability to instruct people how to actually lead or command is limited as fuck.
>>139639901
Interpretation and character's lack personality building because of it.
>>139642348
>None of these things are things you'd expect for an RP guild to give a shit about.
I never said he was part of an RP guild, I kind of worded myself wrongly in the previous post, what I meant to say was that he has an RP build so he's not a minmaxer.
Out of all the series that plays on the MMO trope I think it did it the best.
The characters thinking logically about how to get around the game's rules and make them work in their favor was entertaining.
The biggest issue is the pacing. It sucks dick.
>>139642603
I don't really get that impression, reading the Yen Press translations.
>>139639548
It was fun, I even like how they got a guy for the dub to meow for the cat guy. Excuse me, I've forgotten names.
But yeah, S2 was forgetable. [DEENs internally]
Haven't seen enough of .hack to give a good reason for comparison, but OverLord was decent if you can accept that MC-kun is an End Game character stumbling around in a new patch. Of course he will seem over his head but come out on top, he is level 100 with God Tier items and blah blah.
SAO:
SAO S1: Great, fun, lol they keep saying beater
Alfheim Arc: Just go to GGO unless you like elves and brocon
GGO: Sinon's Ass Online. Asada-san Asada-san Asada-san
There is stuff after that: Literally a retro virus.
SAO was lost potential that should be forgotten but people will be talking about it in 10 years.
Accel World is just boring. So bad. The animation is ok but the story is boring.
>>139643593
You forgot that the MC, for some fucking reason, had to be a fat lump of lard.
>>139639548
Its boring for 80% of both seasons, but the topics they address are good. Also, the dungeon raid chapters were so fucking good
>>139640846
Nope. It was basically the Japanese IRS telling him he didn't pay all of his taxes and mamare simply paying his taxes.
>>139639997
I'm halfway through and I really only hated one episode, Guild Master, where that fucking guy has a monologue about teamwork that takes up THE ENTIRE EPISODE. And he's got an internal monologue AGREEING WITH HIS EXTERNAL MONOLOGUE.
Also every attempt at love triangle was annoying. Naotsugu/Marielle = couple of the century
>>139642348
You still think Ainz is in a game and you obviously never read any Overlord.
His build was for RP, doesn't mean it can't be good for killing players or that the guild has to be focues on RP. Several of his job and racial levels gave him instant death spells and he even gained a skill to learn spells from players' corpses.
It was all from him wanting to go for his dream build, the undead overlord of death. He was never meant to have to act like one, just have the build of it.
>Memorizing how to find someone without being detected, for PK purposes
Memorizing how to not get killed as races hunted for jobs and skills isn't just for killing, but pretty essential if you wanted to get anywhere in Ygg. Ainz would've quit the game a long time ago if he had not met touch Me.
>>139639548
The Overlord anime could be good if Momonga was more in control of the situation. Things got out of his control almost immediately. He's basically written as a goofball that barely knows what's going on and has lost the ability to tell what the right thing to do is. Those evil<===>good ratings on the character pages aren't for nothing, even for him. Sebas is basically the nicest character in their group with this. Basically its a frustrating story that sometimes has great world building elements that are then btfo by how OP the leading characters are compared to the world they find themselves in.
Log Horizon is just world building at its finest, and challenges all the characters quite a lot despite how OP many of them start off as. It raises the flag "The Devil is in the Details" and waves it around all day everyday. Very refreshing. I hear other people like it because it treat the characters as if they're not 1 dimensional.
.hack games were okay. I remember it being pretty fun to play. Unfortunately SIGN was kinda meh and I remember the best episode being an special that came after the main series. There were three girls playing the same character because their free time was too limited to keep up with the game. They killed off the character as a way to say "This is the end of games for us. Now we have to be adults!" It was actually cool.
SAO had high potential, but it's written as a short story and wasn't beefed up at all for the anime. Also the main character is...just not a real character. It's just an archetype. Someone the author could admire that gets all the girls and is really competent and talented. The "Full Moon Cats" arc is only there to mask this fact (badly) and as a way to really push in the tragedy of the scenario. Honestly the story could be more interesting if told from Asuna's perspective, or to me, someone like Liz or Agil the shop guy. I'd be much happier with Kirito if I got to see way more hunting solo.
I ended up starting a character on FFXIV from this show. Not the worst choice I ever made
I wish the translations hadn't died so completely and utterly thanks to Yen Press. How many novels are we behind everything at this point?
The latest translations are still on the same book they started on when Yen press did the C&D.
>>139639548
//Hack: I did not watch it yet.
Log Horizon: At first I really liked it, but then I got a feeling that nothing major was happening. Like Akatsuki doe.
SAO: It was first mmo-anime I watched. Start of season 1 made me hype as fuuck. Beater! fk yea. I liked Asuna character, so romance didnt bother me. Yuri-program-pretended-child and their whole pretended family... it wasnt to my liking. First game was the best in my opinion, 2nd was average, and 3rd bad(i dont play shooters) also i dont like how 2nd and 3rd was focused on saving Asuna (muh gurl, kirito becoming too op etc)
Overlord: I like it the most because:
- mc is a villain(or however u call him)-u cant really see that in the anime(anime was meh imo)
- at the start nothing major was happening but it changed quickly-Ainz started interacting with important NW characters and nations - showing them who he really is.
- its just great combination of grotesque(3/4 of the time) and comedy(1/4) - but u have to read light novel to really see that.
>>139640846
Do you have the other caps from his visits? I lost mine, and the archive is gone for good.
>>139647712
The wiki has his visits transcribed. Not the same as an archive but good enough for me
>>139647829
Whoops I forgot to link
http://lh.oksub.me/wiki/Touno_Mamare_Q%26A%27s
>>139639548
>>139639548
All shit, especially log horizon.Tries too hard at being deep while it is just some basic detail even a kid should be able to get.
>>139639548
It was ok but S2/scrubs ruin it also DEEN
Without SAO, we wouldn't have this.
Obviously that means SAO > everything ever.
