I'm supposed to believe Zouken had the Holy Grail sitting in front of him, with Sakura, the adopted daughter he'd been torture-raping for her entire life in preparation for the Holy Grail War, available and with her own servant to use, just decided to let Shinji mess around in Fate and UBW and do nothing else?
Zouken and the whole Matou household felt like a huge afterthought that was tacked on to F/SN to make Heaven's Feel. There's no sign of Zouken beforehand and it's not like his motivation to join the conflict isn't present until HF, and he has the same means at his disposal.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Nasu is a bad writer.
Zouken's soul is rotting. So he has soul alzheimers and kinda forgets alot of shit plus sakura was gonna be used in the next grail war
>>139567167
>not knowing the motto 'nasu is a hack'
newfriend please.
Why did it have to be worms? I could accept her if not for the worms.
>>139567167
Zouken by that point couldent even remember why he wanted the grail entirely by that point either. It wasn't just his bady that was decaying.
Sakura is a cute A CUTE
HF has been translated for nearly 10 years now and you are only just realising that it does not make any sense and completely fucks over much of the already established setting in order to hamfistedly pursue its contrived storyline?
Step up, OP.
>>139567634
Nasu is brilliant, more often than not. You have only yourself to blame if you're too fucking dumb to get the story.
Worm is a worm A WORM
>>139567167
>Sakura, the adopted daughter he'd been torture-raping for her entire life in preparation for the Holy Grail War
No, he'd been preparing her potential heir for the Holy Grail War /after/ the 5th.
Zouken was a patient man. He wanted a true Matou family member to hedge his bets even better. He only gets involved with the fifth due to circumstances that happen involving Shirou in HF.
>trying to make sense out of fate
Wew
>>139567167
>>139567981
Did I touch a nerve?
Zouken knew the grail was a corrupted mess, and the 5th war was an anomaly that happened decades early.
Each time I see this girl I remember that old man and the worms rape thing, she is disgusting and needs to be killed to stop her suffering.
And man, I felt so good when Kirei killed her asshole father.
[ ] Persist on becoming a hero of justice
[ ] I just want to protect Sakura, that's all
http://strawpoll.me/7273838
>>139567973
>it does not make any sense and completely fucks over much of the already established setting in order to hamfistedly pursue its contrived storyline
Why doesn't it make sense?
>>139567167
Serious answer: he was only gonna get serious in the 6th, his big keikaku was using Sakura's son to revive the Matou line and have him win the Grail. He lets Shinji fuck around for the same reasons he actually deterred Kariya in Fate/Zero - it doesn't matter to him at all. HF is the exception rather than the rule because he sees an opportunity when meeting Shirou.
>>139568176
>no "[ ] I will protect my little big sister as my father couldn't" option
It's shit.
>>139568214
>Zouken
>True Assassin
>Sakura being part grail but this only having any effect or bearing in HF when the situation involving dead servants is the same accross the board
HF is a bastard mix of two different routes that really didnt come out correctly.
>wormslut
No thanks.
>>139568771
Oh dear.
>>139568771
Living the dream.
>>139568771
Thanks I just managed to block this from my memory.
>>139567981
>there are people that actually believe this
I feel so sorry for your kind.
>>139568771
Jesus fucking christ.
>>139568280
Sakura can have children?
I thought her whomp was gone?
>>139569375
I think you must've read that in some doujin. All Kotomine reveals is that she has been raped and is no longer "pure". What's the point of Zouken wasting the one miracle that could actually save his family? I believe he tells Kariya the exact same thing about her having an heir in episode 1 of Fate/Zero.
Is it ever revealed what mage family Shirou is from? I mean, not just anyone can use magic, right?
>>139569912
We don't know a single thing about Shirou's past prior to the fire.
He still has memories of it, I believe, but to Shirou, the to Shirou, the guy was essentially born at the end of the Fourth War.
>>139568771
Is it wrong that I wish this was a true story?
>>139571165
I want to watch Sakura squirm and cum while she puts worms inside her cunt.
>>139569696
>What's the point of Zouken wasting the one miracle that could actually save his family?
Because she was never meant to save it you dumb ass secondary. She is simply a science experiment.
>>139571352
>>139568280
I'm getting conflicting statements here. Is she a disposable lab rat or a baby maker for him?
>>139571490
She's hugely important to all his plans for the future of his household and for his participation in Fuyuki's 5th Grailbowl.
>>139571352
Where the fuck did you get that idea? Sounds like you're the secondary.
>>139571490
Don't listen to the secondary making retarded fanfiction. If you read HF he literally called her a disposable lab experiment and it's pretty much empathized the whole route.
>>139572278
The fucking route you secondary, fucking read it before talking out of your ass.
>>139572351
>>139572404
>he believes what Zouken says
Just because he claims to not give a shit about her well being doesn't make it true, it's pretty clear she's somehow involved in every single one of his plans, including winning the Grail War and reviving the Matou family.
>>139572351
>>139572404
I got the impression that she was both. Sakura herself is disposable, but first Zouken wants a kid out of her.
>>139572524
Nope he doesn't give a shit. She is was meant to be disposed, no kid has ever been implied anywhere besides fanwank here.
>>139572491
>What Zouken and the Novel say is wrong
>Believe in my dumb interpretation
Yeah sorry but no go fuck yourself and your fanfiction.
>>139572567
Nasu says otherwise in one of the complete materials collections.
>Q: Why did Zouken only send Sakura into actual combat in Sakura’s Route?
> A: Actually Sakura would not develop as the “Black Grail” in any other route. However, when she was chosen by Shirou, “the person she does not wish to lose”, the negative emotions she kept bottled up all these years came flooding out, which accelerated the growth of “All the World’s Evil – Angra Mainyu”.
So it's one of those things he failed to elaborate on in the course of the story because he's a hack writer.
>>139572567
Wrong. She was traded in Fate/Zero because the Matou line is dying. He needs her to insure that further lines will have circuits.
>>139572788
Give me your source, and why would what he tell the Tohsaka be true if the damn VN itself narrates his thoughts and what Sakura truly is for him?
>>139572723
That doesn't tell me anything.
>>139568771
>Ever vomited while you were horny? It's weird
my sidesYes, once when I was really drunk
>>139571490
She is both.
Disposable lab rat for a Archmage means she is disposable in a 50-100 year perspective.
Not minimum 1-3 weeks as labrats are in RL.
>>139572567
If she is used for battery, or for kids, its whatever. She can do all of them.
Thats why she is the lab rat.
>>139572723
Okay this is important:
1. Servant dies
2. Sakura swallows servant
3. Grail activates as its suppose to
>>139573112
No you are just making fanfiction right now. Show me statements where he wanted her for the babies, there is none he wanted her because she had potential to be a good lab rat.
>>139573616
No anon, the only shit in the VN is that her baby making tools are intact.
Its never stated what Zoukens actual plans for War 6 is, or what Sakura is suppose to do. Beyond having the potential to be a mana battery. Or having a grail if Eizberns forfeit.
>>139573616
His entire conversation with Kariya at the very start of Fate/Zero makes that intention quite clear.
>>139573741
>the only shit in the VN is that her baby making tools are intact.
They aren't what in the fuck are you on about? At this point you are just trolling. Good job.
>>139573758
It doesn't. Nice fanfiction.
>>139573741
Zouken wanted to do in the 6th Grail War what he did in Heaven's Feel. Summon Avenger, then use the link between Sakura's body and it to tranfer his soul in it and have an immortal body. The reason he didn't do it in the other routed was that he couldn't break Sakura. In HF the fact Shirou reciprocated her love meant that Zouken could use him to break her.
>>139574814
Good job spoonfeeding secondaries.
>>139574814
he didnt summon avenger in sakura's orute nor did he transfer his soul to a servant.
>>139568280
Is that why he let's Shinji rape her?
>>139571165
It is, isn't it?
I remember reading the cockroach one taking place in a public restroom, from that woman's blog.
>>139574939
Do me a favor: Get an immersion blender. work that thing into your asshole, then tape the switch down and jump off a couch so you land on the handle.
>>139567167
Hey OP, do you remember the promise you did to your childhood friend about marrying her when you were 1 month old? Well, same thing for Zouken. Old faggot has been living for so long that it's amazing he still remembers how to breathe.
>>139575918
>mastered life magic to extend lifespan
>doesn't learn any mind magic to make sure he stays sane
kek
>>139574939
At this point u primary faggots are worse than the secondaries. Do the world a favor and quit your bitching
>>139575849
Stay butt fucking blasted faggot.
>>139575957
That's not even a thing
>>139575965
no no, that's what you're supposed to do. Get to it.
>>139576328
what?
Nothing in the wide Fate franchise will ever be as good as Carnival Phantasm
>>139577482
cp is so fucking overrated. The Tsukihime shit wasn't funny at all
>>139577482
>liking meme anime
>>139567981
Nasu has brilliant ideas, but he's not a great writer. If he is, his brilliance doesn't translate well to English. His writing is pretty repetitive both in style and in the basic story structure.
>>139567167
>It just doesn't make any sense.
Nothing make sense.
Fuck Fatetards
>>139573741
Will ufotable/Nasu expand on Zouken's character in the upcoming films?
>>139579824
It isn't any better in Japanese.
>>139572351
>it's pretty much empathized the whole route
>empathized
What could he mean by this?
>>139575960
This.
>You're just a secondary!
>No you!
>No you!
Do you faggots even read what you post?
So what's wrong with having 2+ children when your a mage? It seems far from impossible to teach and train two offspring.
>>139568443
Abandoning Sakura means abandoning Illya.
What's the arbitrary line between a secondary and a primary?
Dark Sakura a best
What's the chance of OP being a Zero secondary?
>>139582899
>>139580000
Checked
>>139582595
Butcher honestly fucked up with this one. Rin's father died and she was mostly self-taught, so the statement that a mage can't possibly train more than one kid at the same time is bollocks.
>>139582595
Only one child can get the family crest. The only exception to this is the Edelfelt family
>>139583525
>Only a few pages a month
It hurts.
Magus families won't split a Family Crest between heirs.
Those nigga Toesuckas STOLE half of the Edelfeldt Crest in a prior War.
also Rin was being given some magical instruction by Kotomine.
>>139582956
Makes for a good wallpaper.
>>139584352
Thanks
>>139568771
>>139568771
Does anyone have the Shiki+ORT h-scene?
>>139575323
Well no, because he didn't expect Sakura to turn on him and kill him. That was his plan though.
>>139567167
Well, that's very typical for Nasu desu.
>>139568176
>no "Protect Illya instead" option
>>139587941
Illya wouldn't accept you if you abandon Sakura.
>>139567167
Sakura didn't awaken as the grail in fate and ubw because she isn't involved and shirou didn't show affection to her.
>>139587941
Illya hasn't earned it.
>>139579824
>Falling to the mistranslation meme
>>139590205
>I can't read
>>139576328
Magic is literally 'I can make it a thing'.
That's the problem with magic is that it has no rules. Even if you try to make some there's something that comes along and fucks that rule up.
>>139567167
>I'm supposed to believe Zouken had the Holy Grail sitting in front of him, with Sakura, the adopted daughter he'd been torture-raping for her entire life in preparation for the Holy Grail War, available and with her own servant to use, just decided to let Shinji mess around in Fate and UBW and do nothing else?
At that point she didn't matured into the Grail and he can't actually force her to that level to fight, so he switched his priorities.
All he did in HF was a huge gamble actually.
>>139567167
He never expected to Sakura to grow into the Grail, that's why the Shadow appears he goes all insane about how incredible that is. She literally surpassed all his expectations.
>>139568457
All of those are factor that only matter if the circumstances presented at the prologue leading to HF are set. If not, everything proceeds as normal, so it doesn't really conflict with anything. It's something adressed even in the route itself many times.
>>139582595
It wouldn't have been so much of a problem if only it wasn't so obvious that Sakura had the potential to be bloidy amazeballs as a magus. She wasn't shit enough for him to be keen on the idea of letting her grow up playing second fiddle.
>>139568126
Was kirei a good guy for killing tosaka's dad?
I wonder if rin ever found out about that? Probably not, since fate/zero was fanfiction.
>>139594253
>Was kirei a good guy for killing tosaka's dad?
No.
>I wonder if rin ever found out about that?
She did.
>>139567167
He doesn't care. He has all of time to carry out his plans. Raising Sakura is an eyeblink, nothing more.
Really, the only person who's a threat to him is Gilgamesh - who probably has a treasure that can snuff him out, and likely finds Zouken repulsive. Otherwise, Zouken's just like "Eh, whatever. Those crazy kids." and fucks off.
>>139594508
Makes one wonder if the reason Sakura was happy at the end of UBW was because he killed him off as a favour to Shinji
>>139594070
>if the circumstances presented at the prologue leading to HF are set
Like?
>>139567167
It was explained right there in the route. When the war breaks out 50 years early and with fuckton of machinations. he goes "Wow, this shit is super chaotic, I may be in somewhat favorable position, but why the fuck should I risk it all? Nah, Shinji can knock himself out". But in HF he learns of the extent of the connection between Shirou and Sakura, plus she starts to have feelings again, so he decides that even though war is super chaotic, he has to good of the hand to simply fold here, and starts his play.
On the somewhat related note, I'd like to see the dismantling of the Grail 10 years after Fate and UBW, and the role Zouken plays there.
