Having read through the translated but incomplete translation of the Shin Sekai Yori novel I've realized something. If its actually acurate I actually found out something that didn't occur to me when I was watching the show.
The Child, Messiah or whatever didn't die because he killed a Queerat alone but because Kiroumaru literally told the Kid that hes a Human being. Maybe it is just because of the writing or the dramaticism involved with it, but the kids Death Feedback kicked in shortly when it uttered the Queerats word for Human shortly after Kiroumaru dropped dead. And since Kiroumaru is also a Queerat I assume that the Kid does trust it more than what Humans do for obvious reasons.
The unicode symbols that represent Queerat-speech represent the same symbols when the kid looked at the mirror and seeing its own reflection. It is written in a way to make sure the reader understand what the Kid is saying even if its just symbols
Or maybe its just bullshit I'm typing up here but I do still believe that Death Feedback is not related to physically identifying to a race but rather being mentally attached to it. I'm pretty sure Squealer showed the child the aftermath of the things Humans done to them and it drove it mad, that would explain those screams the child does and the hatred it has for humans.
Shin Sekai Yori thread I guess.
I'm not sure.
I think se was just trained as a weapon and she enjoy killing humans because it's like a game for her.
>identifying to a race but rather being mentally attached to it.
true
That's an interesting theory OP.
>>138630793
>I think se was just trained as a weapon and she enjoy killing humans because it's like a game for her.
I'm not sure if you can even do that. The Queerats certainly respected her and treated her well, just look at the tattoo. Remember that scene from the anime with that guy trying to kill the emperor? They don't look similar, but I believe that the Queerats do have a stronger and more sincere relation and connection to their past as the Humans do in the story.
I also doubt that the Queerats had a Evil Minoshiro, I just believe that the writer wanted to make sure that the Queerats actually do progress with culture and science.
Important poll
http://strawpoll.me/7081501
Oh and before someone didn't understand what I was going for with the speculation I just write it down.
It may be true that Marias child didn't die because it believed to be a Queerat, but because it understood that its a Human. And since 1/3 of the story was all about mass murder, Death Feedback would've kicked in regardless of what would happen.
Ultimately, Saki may had "good" intentions with trying to make the child realize that it was a human but in the end I believe it would've been it's death warrant regardless.
Its interesting to see how the novel leaves this much room for interpretation.
>>138631037
they progressed too fast.
Minoshiro is a good explanation for a lot of things in the show
I never understood how his death feedback didn't kick in when he killed the giant hornet soliders
>>138631985
>when he killed the giant hornet soliders
Because he didn't. He only disarmed them.
Sqealer's warriors massacred them.
>>138631948
Yes but remember, this series is "unrealiable narrator, the anime".
You shouldn't trust everything the Humans say in a story where apartheid is one of the main themes.
>society built around slaving inferior races, killing children, fear and secrecy
>Saki learns the truth of everything
>still protects this society and slaughters the heroes who seek to free humanity
Saki was the true monster.
>>138632465
>built around ...
They had to adapt or die out (which might still happen because of how volatile and vulnerable the whole cantus society is)
Saki learned about queerats being humans only later and mercy killed Squealer risking wrath of Ethic committee.
She's one of very few people that could actually make the cantus society a better one in the future.
>>138632465
why do female protagonists always do this?
>>138632606
They adapted into something despicable, dangerous and extremely counter-intuitive.
They've left themselves extremely vulnerable to any threat whatsoever, and absolutely none of them are ever going to be capable to handle any human threats due to the attack inhibition.
They've even incapable of sacrificing themselves killing any hostile humans to save the rest.
Saki is complacent and dumb, quite frankly. She's nice, but fast forward and she's petting the same cats that murder children.
>>138632012
Tottaly forgot about that. But how come nobody thought it was weird that they used cantus to disarm them but not to kill them?
>>138632786
>>still protects this society and slaughters the heroes who seek to free humanity
>>138632465
The survival of the Queerrats and a kinder society means the annihilation of all psychics. It only makes sense that the psychics have put in place these unbelievably cruel institutions such as child-killing, Queerrat oppression, as well as even the death feedback loop. The psychics have realized they are a blight upon the planet but still want to survive. It makes sense that Saki isn't tearing everything apart.
>>138632971
>It only makes sense that the psychics have put in place these unbelievably cruel institutions such as child-killing, Queerrat oppression, as well as even the death feedback loop.
Not really. The psychics have regressed mentally, spiritually and technologically, incapable of real survival. They're sophisticated barbarians, they're all brawn and no brain. Their brain is not muscle, but it's their cantus, their psychic muscle.
The psychics have to admit that they can't even make things as well as the queerats do, as they advance and adapt.
Rather than attempt to cure or understand their condition, they regressed into a cruel status quo where millions die to sustain their stagnant culture.
>>138632907
Because they're Queerats. They think of them as animals killing themselves. Humans just want to make sure they can play with their powers, they don't care about the things that happen to the Queerats alone.
Reminder that Satoru and Shun are fags and only Mamoru was straight.
>>138633109
>Rather than attempt to cure or understand their condition, they regressed into a cruel status quo where millions die to sustain their stagnant culture.
Probably because there is no cure. The education system and Minoshiro both make it clear that they've put extensive research into trying to deal with cantus and it ended in utter failure. They are where they are because all other paths of salvation were crossed out a very long time ago.
>>138632786
>They adapted into something that works and allows people wielding the power equivalent to WMD to survive and not kill each other and few thousand bystanders because of slightest rage outburst
Sure it's not ideal. They basically destroyed society as we know it and killed 'old' humanity but that's evolution for you. They're top of the fucking food chain now.
>They've left themselves extremely vulnerable to any threat whatsoever,
Not really, they can handle everything that's not outright human.
>and absolutely none of them are ever going to be capable to handle any human threats due to the attack inhibition.
There are no human threads left. Also they solved that problem when they started to use cats to hunt their 'bad' children. They can kill, just not directly.
>They've even incapable of sacrificing themselves killing any hostile humans to save the rest.
They are capable of sacrificing themselves to try to kill any hostile humans like Saki's parents did.
>She's nice, but fast forward and she's petting the same cats that murder children.
It's good you're not in charge because the cantus population would be dead in one or two generations.
They are not killing their children because it's fun. They are doing it because the little fucks wield power to kill / destroy thousands and if there's a slightest chance they will, cats have to clean up.
As I said, it's fucked up but there's no easy way out of that. The power they wield is too big for common sense solutions.
>>138632907
>But how come nobody thought it was weird that they used cantus to disarm them but not to kill them?
Kiroumaru was only survivor and he made it out because his elites protected him with his own lives.
He didn't stick around to check too closely what was happening.
The committee members checking the battlefield found some strange clues but didn't come up with good explanation.
>>138633237
Given how "pure" and unaltered the human form remains and how grotesquely they can adapt themselves, that seems like a definite lie.
They can with their limited technology (read: hypnosis) prevent people from using their cantus altogether, resulting in no problems whatsoever.
>>138633256
>Sure it's not ideal. They basically destroyed society as we know it and killed 'old' humanity but that's evolution for you. They're top of the fucking food chain now.
They were the top of the food chain prior to attaining psychic abilities as well, and lived far better and more prosperous lives. Their system does not work, as it allowed the death of nearly their entire population by the hands of less educated man-rat hybrids. The only thing that stopped them was dumb luck and reliance on a member of the queerats helping them.
>Not really, they can handle everything that's not outright human.
Stealth, subterfuge and similar attacks killed them quite easily.
>There are no human threads left. Also they solved that problem when they started to use cats to hunt their 'bad' children. They can kill, just not directly.
Queerats, the environment, all these are non-human threats. Event he occasional "bad egg", a human, is a threat. They failed to kill such a threat when it appeared.
>They are capable of sacrificing themselves to try to kill any hostile humans like Saki's parents did.
By passively allowing themselves to die, yes. But not by e.g charging "Messiah" with a knife or crushing her with cantus. Any other sneak attack.
>It's good you're not in charge because the cantus population would be dead in one or two generations.
To be fair, that would be a good thing and the better way of advancing humanity as well as ensuring happiness for people.
>>138633256
>They are not killing their children because it's fun. They are doing it because the little fucks wield power to kill / destroy thousands and if there's a slightest chance they will, cats have to clean up.
They are killing their own children out of paranoia, something admitted and stated quite clearly in the source material itself.
The deaths and murders of thousands of innocents out of fear is what they're doing, and there is an easy way out of it, simply not doing it and altering themselves so they would be able to deal with such threats efficiently.
Ironically the problem they've gotten themselves into is their own fault, as they've left themselves vulnerable to the threat once it arises.
The pre-emptive murders of these children do absolutely nothing because the threat they fear is more than capable of avoiding detection and execution. Hence these threats do occur relatively often and kill thousands in the process.
NINGENNNNNNNNN DA
Why are ssy threads pretty much the only real discussion threads we can have on /a/?
>>138633896
Wait untill some time passes and waifu wars for Maria and Saki hit
>>138633970
Maria, obviously.
>>138633256
>They are capable of sacrificing themselves to try to kill any hostile humans like Saki's parents did.
If based god quadeyes shisei can't sacrifice himself to kill another cantus user then nobody can.
>>138633896
A combination of it being pretty well-liked on /a/, not overly popular in general, and having a lot of vague story elements that are open to interpretation. Nobody on /a/ really hates SSY and the people who like it enjoy talking about it.
Anons the manga adaptation is pretty hot, I recommand to check it out.
>>138634293
The manga is pure shit.
>>138634347
My dick has another opinion
>>138634293
literally child lesbian hentai that only half-attempts to tell a shadow of the original story.
How come the cats were unable to kill Maria's son? They can kill humans with cantus on a regular basis, but not him? And it's not like his cantus was exceptionaly powerfull or anything, or did I miss something?
Why can't more books be adapted to anime?
SSY was vastly better than any LN stuff. It sold like shit though, fucking elevens.
>>138633514
>Given how "pure" and unaltered the human form remains and how grotesquely they can adapt themselves, that seems like a definite lie.
How so? The actual human form has nothing to do with their ability to use cantus and there's no reason to assume they can perform good enough genetic modifications to remove cantus without causing even more problems.
>The pre-emptive murders of these children do absolutely nothing because the threat they fear is more than capable of avoiding detection and execution. Hence these threats do occur relatively often and kill thousands in the process.
Nigga, they happen once every few centuries. It's highly likely that among those innocents were actual potential threats, most of which were removed. The system being imperfect doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all.
>>138634734
It's not just this, either. Another and Shiki were both great as well. Novels make for great anime adaptations. Shame the same can't be said for Haruchika.
>>138634659
>And it's not like his cantus was exceptionaly powerful
Unexceptional cantus is still more than beasts can handle, even if it's supremely sneaky bloodlusting supercats.
They surprised the kids they were sent to kill, and finished them off before they could retaliate. Against a cantus wielder who was constantly killing everything around it that weren't queerats, cats probably wouldn't be very effective
There might have been more to the cats, actually, I don't really remember. I think they were a bit more thoroughly explained at some point.
>>138634659
Maria's child was certainly using more Cantus (mostly in unchecked and destructive ways) than any other child that the cats have successfully killed? Cats were for eliminating young threats before they became threats. Maria's child was already a powerful threat.
Didn't they also send Cats for Shun but of course that didn't work? It's been a long while since I've seen the series so I forget.
>>138634889
When the cats attacked Mamoru earlier on, they stalked him a while in advance, and the same happened to Saki.
This isn't ever mentioned in relation to the fiend, but it's pretty believable that they can't kill a cantus user without the element of surprise.
>The village's system was too cruel with the executions and eugenics
If a fiend was born they would be defenseless and maybe even wiped out. If a Karma demon was born it could potentially not only kill the whole village but maybe endanger a huge territory or all life (who knows what abomination our subconcious could spawn?).
They have all the right in the world to be paranoid and in the long run it's better to kill 100 innoncent children than let a single potental fiend or karma demon live.
SSY is a shit world to live in.
>>138634659
She was usually followed by some elits rats, Hitler didnt wanted his mastercard to be fucked up.
But that's right, those sneaky bastards could have killed her easily.
Tomiko a cute, I want to breed her.
>>138635063
Warhammer 40k: For Ants.
>>138634794
>How so? The actual human form has nothing to do with their ability to use cantus and there's no reason to assume they can perform good enough genetic modifications to remove cantus without causing even more problems.
There is, given what we've seen of human mutation, not to mention what they were able to will into being for Squealer. Asking "how so" like you did, is just admitting that you're fucking retarded.
>but they only happen once every few centuries!
That's one near-extinction level event too many.
The system does not work at all. The system they have makes everything worse, it's a self-created and self-created problem, a volatile system.
>>138635063
>They have all the right in the world to be paranoid and in the long run it's better to kill 100 innoncent children than let a single potental fiend or karma demon live.
In the long run it's better for the psychics to surrender their psychic abilities while working for a cure or better means of control.
As it is, they've doomed themselves into stagnancy.
>>138634073
OP here, I love how the story really can be interpreted in several ways, yet theres no way to come up with a different resolution other than more cultural regression and possible blood shead.
I really wanted more of the story back then when the anime ended. Though any continuation of the story or spin off showing the history of the non-cantus Humans and the other side of the war during the last 8 or so episodes would worsen the facors that made the story actually great in the first place.
>>138632465
>Saki was the true monster.
I can't disagree, in the novel she stated that she alone killed about 100.000 Queerats alone. Though I believe that this might be a mistranslation? The novel makes it clear that Saki is thinking different of humans now, but since she is but then shes pulling the whole nihilistic shikata ga nai thing out of her ass and moves the fuck on with her job.
She's also heavily implying that she thinks of herself as a monster but doesn't want to speak about it. Its clear that shes aware that Humanity by now is but a bunch of lying hypocrites.
>>138635096
I want to repair her telomeres, if you know what I mean
I dropped it back when they grew up and everyone became literally gay. Did it actually get better after that?
>>138635096
Squealer isn't Hitler though. Hitlers country wasn't on the verge of destruction for 500 years.
You have to understand that impending doom is basically the Queerats mantra.
>>138635227
>In the long run it's better for the psychics to surrender their psychic abilities while working for a cure or better means of control.
That's precisely why Squealer did nothing wrong, once the psychic humans are exterminated the world can start recovering from that ominous event that started when the mutants appeared in the 21st century and almost caused mankind to go extinct.
Until the last cantus user is killed there will never be true peace again, just carnage at worst (the different dynasties of the cantus emperors) and that monstruous totalitarian system at best.
And yes NINGEN DA
>>138635457
No it's a horrible series that wouldn't interest someone with superior taste and attention span such as yourself. Skip it and don't shit up the fanbase, I-I mean spruce up the shitty fanbase.
>>138632971
It makes sense if you buy into the idea proposed by the cantus-user society that individuals are fundamentally incapable of governing their own actions.
The fatal flaw in their society's thinking is that they pretty much want to continue to let the human existence be defined in as close as possible terms as it was prior to the collapse. They saw systems of centralized government utterly fail to account for the presence of superpowered individuals, and they were correct in thinking that all pre-collapse systems were at an end. The problem with their response is that they essentially just tried to make pre-collapse systems of human lifestyle tighter and more controlling in order to restrain the change in mankind, rather than abandoning them completely.
In many ways, cantus could have been an incredible opportunity for humanity. The people that went on to create the society of cantus users we see in the show saw it as something that had to be restrained rather than something that had to be adapted to, and this is ultimately what put them in the mess they're in. Responding to the possibility for humans that break under the pressure of an overbearing society now having enormous destructive powers by crafting an EVEN MORE overbearing society was never a good idea.
>>138635552
A simple yes or no would do fine you literal nigger.
Why is the society of Shinsekai Yori so regressed? Why are there a total of 30.000 people in Japan living in rural primitive villages?
Why don't they build cities?
>>138635599
They actually live in a post-scarcity society, they can have anything they want by just thinking it. No need for very advanced tech or big cities.
The problem of the society is no longer material but psychological, they need to have people living in a calm enviroment that makes socialization easy and without much stress or else everyone kills each other in an instant.
Dystopias are so great.
Why did Maria leave Saki for that betamax faggot?
>>138635761
Because she wanted his strong seed.Because she felt that Saki was strong enough to live on alone but Mamoru was too beta to live on his own.
>>138635534
>Until the last cantus user is killed there will never be true peace again
Are you telling me that those 21 century girls that were brutally murdered in the first episode by a Cantus user are more genetically similar to Quueerats than Cantus Users?
>>138635534
The issue is that Squealer's society was no better than the old one. It was built off the enslavement of the mothers, the massacre of the cantus users, and the self-sacrifice of their own people for the greater good. There's really every reason to believe that his new society would have been equally dystopian.
>>138636087
>There's really every reason to believe that his new society would have been equally dystopian.
There's not. His society was merely medieval, set back hundreds of years because they've been stripped of technology and human dignity. It would have improved after all cantus users were dead, because they have something the cantus users don't have. They're not ticking bombs ready to go off when they fall in depression or get schizophrenia. This is what's keeping the cantus society from ever improving, the fact that their existence itself needs to be regulated and can cause massive damage to the environment and everything around them. If a rat goes insane he can be put down without much trouble by his fellows.
And the mothers needing to be enslaved is the cantus user's fault in the first place.
>>138635886
And let me ask you something, who are the true monsters?
>>138635886
>Tfw half of the queerats would have been cute girls if they had a human form
>>138632606
saki and a hypocritical murderous bitch, discovers everything becomes equal to the grandmother, I judge based on what I saw, not what could be
>>138632465
real
>>138632465
real
>>138630651
I'm not sure Kiroumaru told the child that she was human in the show, he might have done in the novel.
Death Feedback has always been implied to be a psychological thing, hence why the monk that caught them during the summer camp started feeling stressed after killing the Queerrats. If the child had actually managed to comprehend what it had done and realized that it was human then death feedback would probably have kicked in.
The screams the child does probably has a lot more to do with the fact that it was probably raised in isolation and not actually exposed to language properly, stunting its growth considerably. Most of her actions contain no real malice, but seemed to stem more from the fact that she was after approval.
All that being said though, Maria and Mamrou dying was probably one of the most depressing moments.
>>138633109
There was very little regression. They quite obviously still had modern (current) science but opted not to use it unless necessary, but they definitely had the knowledge.
I hope that human colonies gundam landed on earth and exterminate all
>>138633652
The preemptive culling was proven to be ruthlessly effective. I'm not quite sure where you're getting that it did nothing.
>>138636332
His society was basically communist Russia with crossbows. His society would've eventually progressed to what 21st century humanity was. Probably even worse since the only psychics would then be under their control.
>>138630651
He (she? I don't remember) had Mowgli syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child
>>138638717
I always found it odd, the director of the series wanted to convey that they were communicating to each other. For instance the duration of the scenes and the "clicking" noises they both do went on for far longer than expected. I may to rewatch again though.
>>138638730
That the second best thing to happen. The best would be the appearance of the goddamn Ultramarines.
Then this music plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGHCoVzqtk
http://exhentai.org/g/573606/0e94e29dbe/
>>138639705
>m:monster
>>138639244
OP here, I doubt that the child had Mowgli syndrome. From what I can tell, Queerat culture during the war was way more politically progressive albeit radical than what the Humans were doing.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child
The Child would've been a Feral one only if he would've lived a "normal" life. Human culture in the story is sort of similar to that of Bonobos after all.
>>138639840
>>138635886
Genetically similar, no. But similar, yes.
>>138635734
Supporting 30000 inhabitants doesn't require one to be post-scarcity.
>>138638809
The outbreaks still happen at more or less the same rate as before. The people who are afflicted can reliably avoid detection until it is too late as well.
They're killing the innocent.
Why is Saki the main character story, I've only watched the anime but it could cut out her and her faggotry just follow Satoru to skip pointless melodrama that goes nowhere.
Just make the rest of the cast more interesting i mean Shun has very little characterization in the story after the very first two children are killed by cats but we're supposed to care that he died.
>>138638221
Saki a shit. The anime rubs the hypocricy of hers so much under the nose it was almost obnoxious.
I guess the writer wanted to make sure everyone gets what hes going for with the story.
>>138640129
Outbreaks weren't happening at the same rate. Pretty sure Shun was the first one in close to 200 years, and Tomiko explained that their group was slightly special since they had been given a lot more freedom than other children.
>>138630651
HITLER RAT DID NOTHING WRONG !
>>138638221
What would you rather she did?
Take a moment to appreciate just how fucking useless the cantus is the way the humans who possess it use it.
They commit mass atrocities to keep the cantus, and they commit those atrocities to avoid it's full use. They don't use it to shape the land, to innovate in technology, and those few who know how to use it well enough to perform amazing feats such as prolonging life, keep it to themselves and don't even share it with other humans.
The humans of the now, with this cantus, can't do anything and end up becoming technologically inferior to a bunch of feral rats. They live in simple dwellings and literally don't do anything but perform menial tasks for the entirety of their lives.
Simply put, they don't even need the cantus to sustain their way of life and as it is, it's only threatening to end them all if not the entire planet.
It's only a tool for power, and nothing more. A tool of oppression. That's it's sole reason for existing.
>>138640391
>Outbreaks weren't happening at the same rate.
You can't actually ascertain that. You could even infer that society has not only kept the same rate of outbreaks, but also made itself more vulnerable to the outbreaks by more or less castrating themselves to effectively deal with it should one occur.
During the early stages of psychic dominance, there aren't any such recorded outbreaks, and you can't count the sadism of the psychic rulers of the time either.
Basically, the scientists fucked it all up.
>>138636400
Yeah, thats basically the entire point of the Story.
Cantus does nothing because Humans are dumbfucks who can only use it to recreate Elfen Lied.
They could do so many good things with it, but that would mean that Humans wouldn't be the idiots that they are in the story now, wouldn't they?
Ironic, isn't it? She had become so powerful she could save others from death, except from herself.
>>138639964
You missed the point. He was thinking of itself as being the same as those around him. It has nothing to do with culture, only with ego identity of a child being raised by other species.
I.e. he was thinking about being the same species as rats, and them being highly advanced society, having language and everything, only helped being easier identified with them as the same. So when he killed some of them, death feedback kicked in.
I've only looked at the anime and manga but, does anything happen right after the end of the anime/manga in the novel. I had the feeling something ominous was about to happen right when prego Saki was about to go answer the door but then it just ends.
>>138641179
>You missed the point. He was thinking of itself as being the same as those around him. It has nothing to do with culture, only with ego identity of a child being raised by other species.
I meant the term culture with the inclusion of ones identity in mind. Its made clear, both in the Anime and the Novel, that the culture of both Humans and Queerats are an important identification point. Culture helps you to get an understanding of the people around you and the tattoo is one implication of that.
The story itself isn't excatly clear of what Queerat culture actually is either. Everything we know from it is entirely from the perspective of the unrelyable narrator and that it is just her interpretation of things. In my opinion the Anime didn't do justice to that part of the Story by a fair margin.
You should read the novel. Saki just expected that the Death Feedback kicked in because the Childs ego identifies with the Rats, yet his Death does seem to act out a little bit different then from what usually was explained. But then again it just may be the dramatic pacing of the novel.
The rest you've wrote is the general consensus so I'm not responding to that.
>>138642430
Culture has nothing to do with anything. Dogs or wolves don't have cultures, yet if a child will live with them from infant to his teens and more, it's next to impossible to make him identity itself as a human. Nor he will feel that something wrong with it.
Rather, we should talk about nature of death feedback itself.
Obviously it was ingrained in dna of all humans, but seeing as a child easily killed the same humans, that means it was either "not to kill the same species as yourself"-like code, or Squealer with his "we are humans" set the bomb himself.
Either way, he didn't think about humans as humans the same way that humans didn't think about rats as humans and could kill them without any remorse.
