Wasn't he supposed to be considered the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime? Power creeping aside, where would prime Hiruzen be in the tiers of Naruto? Taking into consideration that he did (albeit weakened versions) of the first two Hokages and Oro, would he be at the top of the second highest tier, being only below the likes of Kaguya, her kids, and Naruto/Sasuke?
>>137163178
He's so powerful that the entire plot could have been avoided if he ever felt like doing something other than peeping with his crystal ball until old age fucked him over..
fuck off narutards.
The power levels in Naruto was actually not bad during the series but until the end. with Naruto golden form and Sharingan really got out of hand
>>137163178
Not Senju nor Uchiha so his power level cant be high tier since these clans being descended from a literal god explains their ridiculous power.
>>137164071
>Not Asura, Indra or their reincarnations
For all praise both clans got they both only produced really good ninja per gen. Look at Hashirama vs his brother.
>power creep aside
but that's stupid because a large part of the latter cast was introduced after the power creep. trying to fit him in doesn't make any sense
>>137163178
>he supposed to be considered the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime
Hokage level is unimpressive as fuck.
>>137164713
Well...ha I guess I tried. Just a little curiosity because for shits and giggles I looked up how shit ended.
>>137164715
Well, from what I looked up, the black guy and the first two had powerful showings, no?
>>137164071
Shit, remember when this series was like "hard work>>>>>destiny/inherent talent?" and even then fail miserably at that because Naruto used inherent fox shenanigans to beat Neji? Didn't think it could've gotten worse.
>>137163178
>the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime
I thought it was "the most powerful of all the five kages in his prime"
so only relevant to the other nations kage during his era
>>137165083
hard work beating genetics is fucking retarded because your genetics allowed you to work that hard in the first place.
How does gen jutsu work and why does it work sometimes and fail sometimes?
>>137165367
That's honestly what I think of when I see Guy and Lee, almost no one else can use the first gate let alone any other so I'm under the impression they were born with the talent to do it better than everyone else.
>>137163178
Here's how the Hokage power ranking probably actually goes
7>1>4>3>2>5>6
>>137165367
Nah, what you are saying ain't wrong, but you're looking at it from a different perspective.
>>137165381
That's the one you're just not supposed to think about, ironically the sharingan had the most straight forward version of genjutsu.
>Look someone in the eye, cast illusion.
>>137163178
>second highest tier
Third or fourth.
>being only below the likes of Kaguya, her kids, and Naruto/Sasuke?
Are you insane?
>>137165611
Poor Kakashi, his Sharingan was the only thing he had going for him and they took it away
>>137163178
Hes strong but hes not First or Second Hokage strong. He wouldn't have stood a chance against any of the Akatsuki. He was strong sure but he was old and most characters went way past Kage levels of strength. I remember the Kage being revered as the strongest of characters in Naruto before Shippuden then after Shippuden the Kages became casual characters.
If all you need is good genes to be powerful, why don't they just do human breeding?
>>137166194
well Naruto comes from nothing so maybe the hidden message in Naruto is that we should all let demons into our lives to succeed.
>>137166326
Uzumakis are basically Senjus meaning Naruto's power is logical. Also Kurama has been constantly suppressing Naruto true power since he was born.
>>137165381
it disrupts your chakra flow or something
it was explains veeerrryyy early (around chuunin exams I think) and I've forgotten most of the explanations
>>137166170
>He wouldn't have stood a chance against any of the Akatsuki
Are you implying anyone in the Akatsuki is as strong as the First other then Obito? Nagato should be stronger than the Second. The Third should comfortably beat all of them except him, Itachi and Nagato excluding Deidara committing suicide.
>>137166534
The third lost to Orochimaru and Orochimaru would lose to almost every member of the Akatsuki excluding Deidara.
>>137166611
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru could take down Hidan, Kakuzu, Konan and Sasori
>>137166534
Most of the Akatsuki except Hidan could mutilate Hiruzen without much effort, its fucking funny how Itachi was actually far more powerful than him as a freaking teenager yet still took orders from him.
>>137166684
Konan can warp explosive notes him
Kakuzu just spams Pressure Damage
Sasori iron sand has poison in it and if that fails Oro is gonna have to deal with one hundred superhuman puppets moving at high speed
Hidan gets murked
We never saw Hiruzen in his prime. This argument is pointless.
Hashirama and Tobirama were in their primes when revived and could wreck shit. Sarutobi was still in old man form and weak from his older age.
If anything in this series helps prove Naruto's actual claim of Hard Work > Destiny/Birthright, Its his own Father. Namikaze wasnt some expert clan or group of demi gods. Minato was just a dude who was skilled and worked forever to hone them, on top of perfecting Tobirama Flying Thunder God jutsu. Rock Lee and Maito Gai would be other examples.
>>137166684
Hidan is immortal and Shikamaru only beat him because prep time. Kakuzu has three hearts and only got beat because he faced off against a team of highly coordinated ninja. Sasori only lost because he faced off against someone with an extremely cheap ability that was similar to his and Sakura's super strength helped her break him.
>Sasori spams puppets all over Orochimaru effectively killing him eventually
>Hidan can outlast Orochimaru and if he so much as makes Orochimaru bleed Orochimaru dies
>Kakuzu fires his laser maybe loses
>Konan has that cheap explosive notes tactic
>>137166611
Because he was old.
In his prime he would wreck them surely.
>>137165611
>>137165927
I would argue that Kakashi is actually the weakest Kage period.
>>137166611
He was old, so chakra is lower than it was in his prime, and he was fighting against multiple people. Orochimaru barely escaped with his life. He would also beat Hidan and Kazuku, people Deidara are clearly superior to. >>137166684
>Most of the Akatsuki except Hidan could mutilate Hiruzen without much effort
Nah. He had help, but was capable of pushing back the Kyuubi with his staff and was the main force behind it. Imagine a hit from it to someone like Konan.
>>137166823
Minato's genetics is one of the prime reasons the genetics>hard work argument is bullshit.
Prime Hashirama destroyed an island.
>>137166898
Deidara was probably one of the weakest if not the weakest member of the Akatsuki so saying Deidara was clearly superior to those others is wrong. Deidara was even Sasori's junior.
>>137166957
Deidara got far stronger after joining Akatsuki. Tell me how Sasori would deal with C3. How Kakuzu counters Deidara's air superiority and C4.
>>137166957
>Deidara
>weak
The nigga can make an explosion that flipped over the island turtle. He is very broken since C4 is microscopic bombs that are impossible to avoid.
>>137165494
>almost no one else can use the first gate let alone any other
That's because, for some reason, no one in the world other than Guy's dad ever bothered to discover the secret to opening these universal power channels.
>>137166823
>on top of perfecting Tobirama Flying Thunder God jutsu.
He was doing it wrong his whole life, Tobirama took time to correct his form during a battle for the fate of the world.
>>137166838
>Orochimaru cuts the puppets to pieces with his magic sword
>Hidan gets wrapped in snakes
>Kakuzu wins
>Konan needed literally years of preptime for that
Can we call agree that Sasuke should have died twice in Shippuden?
Once to Deidara and then again to Killer Bee?
>>137167439
The Deidara fight I thought was fine, him attacking all 5 kage and walking away is all sorta bullshit.
>>137167439
three, he also died from madara
>>137167439
he should have died from cancer every episode he is in
>>137167735
my fucking sides.
>>137163178
I think its more "strongest of his time" meaning he was the strongest Hokage at the time. or strongest Ninja at the time. The guy was trained by Hashirama and Tobirama who were leagues above the rest. So its sorta like the calm between the generations. so he was the best of the worse
>>137166876
Well yeah. Allthough with sharingan i think Kakashi could beat all of theese guys pretty ez
In his Prime Sarutobi is probably one tier lower than the true god shinobi...
>Literally God
Kaguya
>Demigods
Hashirama
Madara
Tobirama
Naruto
Sasuke
Obito
>False Gods
Sarutobi
Orochimaru
Minato
Jirayia
Itachi
Pain
Kisame
>Prophets
Kakashi
Maito Gai
A
Onoki
Mu
Killer Bee
>>137168937
At the least whats her name, it's kinda sad she's the only other character from the rock village that got enough screen time to make it to kage.
>>137169031
>Kisame
>Kakashi
Kakashi is lightning ninja dude. Lightning>water
Also A is probbably stronger then alot of those guys below minato because they have no answer for his speed
>>137169116
Cement girl is her name.
>>137169131
A is below because of what the people above can do...
Hiruzen is probably stupid strong and versatile in his jutsu and could figure some thing up with his Earth nature.
Orochimaru is....Orochimaru
Minato has already proven he can fight him
Pain has eye hacks
Itachi could Genjutsu him easily
Jirayia and Kisame might have a problem, but im unsure.
>>137169217
>Pain has eye hacks
Useless against speed though. Except for Tendo who has a recharge time that can be easily exploited if you fake him out.
You gotta remember how quick A actually was. "Fastest ninja alive" means something you know.
Ay was also alive back in the previous war. so he did fight against sharingan users without a doubt. If itachi took it seriously from the get go he could win. but if not he is fucked. Ay isn't a ninja that you can dodge or run away from. even then Sasuke only just managed to run away from him because of amaterasu which without Gaara stepping in it probbably would have ended up in a tie loss
>>137163178
Power levels in naruto are stupid, but that said. He was an ultra old guy when fighting orochi, and also old when he got resurrected. Had he been in his prime, he could have showed his power better.
>>137167260
Fucking Tobirama, what a weird fucking character.
>Creates the protagonist's most iconic technique
>Also creates the protagonist father's most iconic technique, who is hyped up nonstop
>Also creates the technique that becomes central for the final arcs and puts the entire setting upside down
>Somehow still the most unremarkable hokage, with the one that can grow trees being the most knwon
>>137169625
You gotta put it in perspective, the trees are pretty fucking big.
>>137167534
>The Deidara fight I thought was fine
>I'm completely out of chakra
>let me summon, hypnotize, and designing Manda to escape your allahu Akbar in the blink of an eye with the chakra I pulled out of my ass
>>137169625
>>137168937
He'd still get fucked by his horrible stamina that gets even more horrible when he uses his Sharingan.
All the other kages have chakra for days, even Tsunade.
>>137163562
>not bad
Anything post timeskip was bad.
>>137165381
It disrupts you chakra. It pretty much always work unless you have a counter. Like a sharingan, rinnegan, or bijuuu inside of you
>>137167439
Nope, the deidara thing has already been explained to often to go into and killer bee was to busy toying around for sasuke to have been killed
>>137170443
>even Tsunade
She is a senju, of course she is a chakra tank
>>137170456
I liked Pain and Hidan/Kakuzu arcs.
>>137163178
He's the strongest of the Kage at the time even the milisecond before he fought Orochimaru. Judging by how Danzo's flashback had Hiruzen say "I'm the strongest of all of us" with Tobirama nearby & no one reacted otherwise, I say younger 3rd is stronger than 2nd.
>>137165611
>4th that high
I assume you include 9 tails form.
>6th
Had Kakashi kept both Sharingan, he'd likely be to busy resting in bed all day due to chakra costs. Depending on how you view things, Kakashi got off better though weaker.
>>137166823
>Sarutobi was still in old man form and weak from his older age.
I get that old Sarutobi was the most recognizable but what's the in-universe reason for 3rd being revived as a old man? Orochimaru was willing to revive 1st & 2nd as young people but 3rd not even a year before his 60s?
>>137171664
Honestly nothing he showed was all that impressive, for what the powerlevels were in part 1 he was nearly a god but by the end he was fodder.
>>137170356
Looking at how heavily plot armored Sasuke & "I don't need eyes to Susanoo" Madara are, I'm willing to assume Indra eats & breathes plot armor.
>>137169031
I think jiraiya needs to move down because he jobbed to piercings guy who Nardo beat before he even had both halves of the ninetails
>>137171895
>nothing
Even his taijutsu was good. He snuck explosive tags on 1st & 2nd without Orochimaru's notice, had senses so keen that 1st's blinding techniques didn't work, etc.
>>137171953
Had he known Pain's secret, he would have destroyed the first 3 bodies & only have to face 3 afterwards.
>>137170825
Don't forget top tier chakra control.
>>137169031
Move Tobirama down to False Gods. Nothing he's done was that impressive.
Raise Gai to top tier False God.
>>137171994
Compared to the rest of the Kage he still seemed meh at best. Even in what ever his prime was I doubt he measured up to the first or second. He was the Kakashi of his time, good but overshadowed by gods.
>>137172163
>overshadowed
Then he was revived & showed some more shit against Yamato-Zetsu. The others admitted they'd be screwed if it weren't for 3rd.
>>137171994
>1'sts binding techniques didn't work
Let's get real. 1st and 2nd weren't at their most powerful. This is just basic and obvious inference from what we saw later on in the war. It's a shitty example of a supposed "feat".
>>137172337
>1st and 2nd weren't at their most powerful
That's still beyond most of Kabuto's edo tensei zombies.
>>137172264
I dont remember him doing much during the war, he fought the 10tails for about a second and then got blasted.
>>137163178
naruto is full of plotholes, asspulls, nepotism and bullshit.
After the Pain Arc everything went down like a trainwreck!
>>137172419
Excluding former Kages and Akatsuki members, yeah because a lot of those were for the most part throwaways to handle the shit tier shinobi and occasionally have someone near Kakashi's level to finish them.
So why didn't this guy ever get his dick wet, get a wife, or have a child?
>>137169031
How can you say that Kakashi is superior to Gai in any way. Gai would probably wreck him with 6 gates.
>>137171599
I just thought the fights gotten away with inventing shit then having the chars die. I just think it's shit, at least pre-timeskip all the abilities introduced were kept in the game.
>>137172727
He would have to take of his mouthpiece
>>137172598
Pakura was very powerful; all she had to do was touch you with one of her orbs and all the water in your body would evaporate.
>>137172802
Gai could probably beat most characters with the Eight Gates but that's basically suicide.
>>137175187
Suicide is true art
>>137171723
Minato stomps Tobirama with Sennin Mode though.
I mean they have basically the same jutsu and fighting style, only thing is that base Minato doesn't have nukes. As a sennin he should have pretty much everything Naruto has considering it's exactly the same sennin mode. Also he can summon Pa & Ma.
People take Minato for granted but he was genuinely strong.
>>137175187
>probably
Gai almost killed Madara who was basically God at that point. And Jinchuriki Madara was far superior to regular Madara who is far superior to everyone else except for maybe 5 characters at the most.
>>137163178
he couldn't take on the 3 even with his summon's help, he needed a suicide technique to take down the other 2 hokage and cripple Oro.
In his prime he was probably equal to the other Hokage.
>>137176031
Why Hashirame let himself be controlled the first time? I can't remember.
>>137164388
Are you kidding tobirama invented basically all of the jutsu the modern ninjas use. Hashirama just had ashura in him is all.
>>137172461
He fought against Spiral Zetsu with a mini-Hashirama Wood Buddha where he countered its techniques with the exact same ones.
>>137172598
>Kages
>Hashirama filling the place with trees
Sasori didn't do much, neither did Deidara. For some odd reason, Kabuto never thought of bombing runs with Deidara nor filling Deidara's chest-mouth full of clay.
>>137176306
>Hashirama just had ashura in him is all
He had his Woody powers. Hasirama's Wood is so good that Madara desperately wanted it inside of him. That's why Madara nearly choked on it just to get it.
>>137177116
Well think about it, all of the filler Shinobi and probably many of the stronger guys would've died before the afternoon if Kishi didn't conveniently write out Deidara.
>>137175599
Thats why i prefer Minato over the other Kages. He doesn't have a lot of crazy Jutsus or is crazy powerful but he is still strong and compensates with his brain plus his design is the coolest one
>>137177586
>liking the retarded jutsu thief
>>137171283
this would have made a lot of sense, though it'd also have left huge question marks such as
>why did Kakashi never acknowledge his granddad or uncle when he met them?
And people would bitch even louder about spushul snuflaks
>>137178553
Sakumo should have been the 3rd Hokage. Non-senju like Hiruzen and Minato are shits
>>137179478
# EndSenjuPrivilege
#NotallUchihas
#Pray4VillageHiddenintheRain
>>137179840
>yfw Uchiha's are an allegory for niggers
>>137179958
more like muslims
>violent ideology
>have a section of town all to themselves where they are free to subject themselves to laws no-one else wants to follow
>monitored 24/7 by the powers that be, who fear they shall one day rise to commit a spree of terrorism
>repressed sexually and grow up angry and angsty
>dark haired
>young ones forced to memorize something that defines them (Uchiha's had katon, Muzzies have the Koran)
>women are all covered up and are barely seen outside
>People of Konoha treat them like special snowflake minorities and try coming up with handwave explanations when they flip their shit and do something crazy
