>Before his death Cell was stronger than Gohan, and therefore super saiyan 2
>Cell can infinitely get Zenkai boosts in power levels by blowing himself up and then regenerating
>Cell can use the fake moon technique to transform into the mighty Oozaru, making himself x10 his maximum power
>Cell can train for 4 months to become golden frieza and be at about 60% of Beerus' base power
>Cell can create 5 cell juniors and perform the super sayian god ritual to become a super saiyan god (60% of Beerus' full power)
So Cell can easily surpass Whis in 4 months.So if he became golden and a god, he'd be about 120% of Beerus' full power.
On the cosmic scale Beerus is a 10 while Whis is a 15, and Golden God Cell would be 10.2.
Then if Golden God Cell goes Oozaru, he'd be 10x his maximum power, so he would be a 102 on the cosmic scale. 7 times the power level of Whis.
Cell truly was Perfect to begin with, he just got cocky and only existed for like a week.
>>136402467
Was he really stronger than Gohan?
>>136402533
Given that Gohan was hurt saving Vegeta before the big beam struggle, yeah Cell was stronger.
>>136402611
but Cell at 100% was still weaker than Gohan at 100%
Gohan was over twice as strong as Cell. Had Cell not injured him while attacking Vegeta Gohan would have won easily.
Cell was still Super Saiyan 2 though. The lightning is the giveaway.
>>136402611
Gohan, while injured, still overpowered SP Cell. You're mistaken to think otherwise. Even if Cell achieved the equivalent of SSJ2, his SSJ2 was obviously not stronger than Gohan's.
Gohan imagining Goku supporting his Kamehameha doesn't mean Goku actually did. Goku was on another plane of existence and dead.
Also, Cell receiving Zankai from self-destruction contradicts the canon rule that Zenkai cannot be self-inflicted.
I hate to rain on your parade, but it doesn't work like that. The Oozaro and SSJG powerups don't stack. They're effectively different levels of Sayain power. SSJG trumps Oozaro, it doesn't stack with it.
Also Cell got lucky when he self-destructed. It's not like that is what will happen every time he self-destructs.
ALSO, Cell cannot perform the God ritual, because he and his Jr.s are not pure of heart. Not unless pure evil counts anyway.
At best, Cell can achieve Golden form. But I would argue that Frieza's Golden form was his race's equivalent of Super Saiyan. Cell already had Frieza's Golden form, if we assume all Golden forms are the same Super unlock inherent with every race. I might get shot for this, but I assume even humans can go Super. It's just that none that we know of have done so. Just you wait, I bet there's a Buddha character who achieved Super Human God Super Human.
What made Frieza capable of fighting on the level of a God was his training, not his transformation. Remember, base Goku still has Godly ki, therefore base Frieza has Godly ki too.
If Frieza achieved his Golden form without improving his base form, then I would wager that he would only be as strong as a SSJ3, tops.
Also note that I consider Frieza's 4th form to be his true base, while his 1st-3rd forms are suppressed forms. You could call his first suppressed form his "-3rd (negative third) stage".
>>136402467
>>Cell can infinitely get Zenkai boosts in power levels by blowing himself up and then regenerating
All saiyans can get infinite power boosts by punching themselves in the face and getting healed. It's just that after Goku did it on the way to Namek, everyone agreed it was too bullshit broken and decided never to abuse it again.
>>136402948
>Gohan, while injured, still overpowered SP Cell. You're mistaken to think otherwise.
He won with plot ki from the next dimension.
>>136403322
Remember when only pure hearted Saiyans could become Super Saiyans?
Pure Evil lol.
>>136403010
It wasn't him who did it. It was the bomb Gero put in him, not anything biological
>>136402948
Gohan literally only had an opening because all the other Z fighters were attacking and distracting him. At the moment both Cell and Gohan were SSJ2, but Gohan was still slightly stronger.
Oozaru Cell would be unstoppable because his tail would always grow back.
>>136403322
Vegeta became SS AND SSG without being pure of heart.
Cell can become GOLDEN SUPER CELL GOD BLUE
>>136403010
>>136403423
Goku got his powerup on the way to namek by self inflicting himself injuries and healing himself.
The whole "self inflicting doesn't count" is a really dumb afterthought that doesn't really change anything in the end because apparently if you lower your chi enough you can be killed with a dinky little laser and so get your zenkai.
>>136403368
Nah, Gohan was only temporarily overpowered by Cell because he lost morale. He thought his ki had been cut in half, thus he couldn't tap into it. When Goku gave him that mind-over-matter pep-talk, Gohan was able to tap into the power he thought he lost.
It kind of makes sense that Gohan thought he lost power; Saiyan power, and ki in general, are tied directly to mental and emotional state. He was a mess after realizing how bad he fucked up. It's fair to say that he felt defeated because he was responsible for his father's death. See, if he thought Cell was responsible, he would have probably doubled in power again. But thinking he was responsible due to his arrogance might have made him lose faith in his power and himself.
>>136403346
>It's just that after Goku did it on the way to Namek, everyone agreed it was too bullshit broken and decided never to abuse it again.
No, it's outright stated that you can't use self-inflicted injuries to increase your powerlevel. How Cell got around that no one really knows, but it's a stated rule.
Also it's not just any injury, it's being brought to the brink of death. It's why Vegeta didn't get a power boost after he lost to Cell. He was just being toyed with, Cell didn't bring give him near-lethal levels of injuries, he really just beat him up and knocked him out.
That means one wrong step and you could get killed just trying to boost your power. In the end training is a better method.
Can you guys imagine OP just sitting at his computer in a Cell cosplay, surrounded by various types of Cell merchandise, making these threads all day?
>>136403483
>Goku got his powerup on the way to namek by self inflicting himself injuries and healing himself.
Not really, he just trained really hard. He probably got most of his powerup from getting his ass handed to him by Vegeta back on Earth. By the time he got on the ship he was probably already stronger than any of the guys on Namek.
>>136403483
You know what? I'll concede that even I, the great Anonymous, cannot perform the mental gymnastics necessary to overcome Toriyama's inconsistencies.
>>136403547
>No, it's outright stated that you can't use self-inflicted injuries to increase your powerlevel
Which contradicts the fact that goku got his powerup by shooting Kamehameha's into his goddamn face for six days. It was a retcon, anon.
AND IT DOESSn'T MAKE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE, since anyone who wants to abuse it can just "lower their chi" and they become vulnerable to small arms fire.
And it's many degrees of injury. Zenkai is the most arbitrary bullshit in all of Dragonball, goku would get it from a small beating or a terrible injury, and how big a powerup could be from "a little stronger" to 33 FUCKING TIMES stronger.
So given the fact that they have 1) Senzu, 2) Dende, 3) Dragon Balls, there is literally no fucking reason for them not to be abusing zenkai, whether by punching themselves in the face or by getting someone to shoot them after lowering their chi.
>>136403572
topkek
>>136403547
AND ONE MORE THING
>Training is a better method
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Goku's powerlevel went from 90,000 to about 3 Million in ONE SINGLE BOOST.
No anon, Training isn't remotely better.
>>136403588
No anon, they specifically show him shooting himself in the face, eating senzu, getting stronger. Even the narration says he's purposefully bringing himself to the brink of death to get boosted.
>>136403547
>training is a better method.
You mean training till near death.
>>136403725
That's not zenkai.
>>136403775
How the fuck is it not zenkai you enormous apologist.
>>136403725
I don't think he shot himself in the face on purpose.
>>136403855
He is literally shown doing it.
>>136403802
Zenkai is self inflicted. What Goku did was train. Nothing more.
>>136404060
Only 1 of the 3 times goku used the senzu beans on the ship was natural. The other 2 times were self inflicted by his blasts, and he got way stronger after those.
I'm pretty sure that the Oozaru form multiplying your power by 10 was just a hyberbole.
If it was actually true, then Vegeta in Oozaru form when he was on earth would have had a power level of 180,000. That would make him stronger than Captain Ginyu and therefore the 2nd strongest thing in the universe after only Freeza himself.
>>136404060
Look man. The narration SPECIFICALLY says goku recognizes the ability of saiyans to power up from the brink of death and was taking advantage of it. This is immediately after he shot himself in the face with Kamehamehas and almost killed himself, which he comments on.
Zenkai being impossible to self inflict only became a rule when vegeta says it during the freezer fight.
>>136404373
It's probably true, but it's not like the form isn't full of weaknesses though.
>>136404373
Besides King Cold. Even if Oozaru was Ginyu level it is tethered to a moon which anyone Zarbon-level or higher could destroy, and his tail which as Yajirobe showed any Joe Schmo could cut off. If Vegeta tried it Burter would have cut his tail before he was fully transformed.
>>136403346
Zenkai stops working once you become a Super Saiyan. Some people theorize that the whole purpose of zenkai is to allow a saiyan to become super.
Cell is an exception because he's Perfect, and the injury he recovered from is pretty much the most severe injury theoretically possible.
>>136404529
There is no implication whatsoever that that's the case. It's just fanwank to justify plotholes.
>>136404416
No I think it's pretty obviously not true. If Vegeta was twice as strong as the second strongest guy in the universe no weaknesses should make him lose to a couple of chucklefucks who for the most part were barely managing to break the thousands threshold.
Plus powerlevels automatically adjust to factor in weaknesses. Just taking off weighted clothing made a scouter read a higher power level. In analyzes everything. If it truly had such weaknesses the scouters would pick them up and would show the powerlevel was not 10 times higher.
>>136404528
King Cold wasn't canon before any of this happened. He was written into existence only after Toriyama decided to keep the series going after Freizas saga.
>>136404625
>If Vegeta was twice as strong as the second strongest guy in the universe no weaknesses should make him lose to a couple of chucklefucks who for the most part were barely managing to break the thousands threshold.
Not necessarily anon. You forget, while it's usually a very accurate measure, "powerlevel" isn't a direct translation into "better fighter".
Remember what happened to trunks. His power level was greater than Cell's. He got his shit rekt because he was too slow and cumbersome.
A giant fucking gorilla is way slower and way more cumbersome, and cutting off the tail would be no issue if you're not way out of your league fighting it.
>>136404528
>which anyone Zarbon-level or higher could destroy
You mean anyone DB Roshi-level or higher
>>136404348
>>136404374
It's just training, guys.
>>136404701
That was power form Roshi, his power level has never been clocked though. And see as how him being able to fight against friezas men is canon, he is definitely stronger than he looks in that form.
>>136404726
Yes, training. By shooting himself in the face until on the brink of death and using senzu to recover getting a massive powerboost thank to his saiyan bood.
>>136404748
Piccolo blew it off easy and he was under 1K.
Roshi is probably not even that strong in power form.
I always assumed Cell surviving his self destruction was a complete fluke and that it would be too risky to try again.
>>136404685
>if you're not way out of your league fighting it.
Which Yajirobe most definitely was.
Plus we've seen countless times that the higher your powerlevel the more durable your body is. If Vegetas body could be scratched by someone like Yajirobe he clearly wasn't on par with something like Freizas first form.
>>136404748
>canon
>meaning jack shit in this series
Toriyama makes shit up and changes whatever he wants as he goes along.
>>136404843
It probably was, but it proves he can get zenkai boosts via his regeneration.
>>136404864
Well yes, but it was a sneak attack.
And Frieza's first form is 530K, so he's naturally not on that level.
>Plus we've seen countless times that the higher your powerlevel the more durable your body is.
Well it's not like toriyama is consistent about it, but the tail of saiyans is their weakness so it cuts easy I guess.
>>136404833
>>136404868
>>136404899
>>136404922
Bravo, Tori.
>>136404868
How did this not blow up his shuttle, and leave him to die in space?
>>136404952
They didn't hit his shuttle.
>>136403368
>>136402611
>>136402533
Gohan, with half of his ki gone, destroyed Cell so utterly and completely, he couldn't regenerate because there was nothing to regenerate from. So no, he wasn't stronger than Gohan or SSJ2. Him coming back the first time, killing Trunks, and beating the shit out of Vegeta in more or less the span of a few minutes had shaken Gohan and caused him to lose his confidence, which affected him during that beam struggle. But, no, he was never stronger than Gohan.
>>136405040
He was stronger, power level wise. Gohan won with his WAGE powerup.
>>136405040
>caused him to lose his confidence, which affected him during that beam struggle
I thought Gohan was afraid of destroying the earth using his full power during the beam struggle
>>136404864
Krillin's destructo disc cut 2nd Form Frieza's tail off. Come on, dude, Krillin was not anywhere close.
>>136405277
>Kienzan
That technique is meant to cut through anything. We didn't see its limit until Cell when it showed that at some point even a technique of highly condensed chi into a buzzsaw blade can't affect the difference in power.
Same way that the Tribeam was able to affect Semi-perfect Cell despite the MASSIVE difference in power level.
>You will never post in a Dragon Ball thread that isn't filled with secondaries who never read the fucking manga
>>136405438
I don't know why you're taking a detail like that seriously and not Vegeta's quip, then. All it would say is that at 180k (which isn't even all that much in the Frieza Saga), even Yajirobe could take out his tail, and it's a Saiyan weak point to boot. So? This isn't unbelievable, that Vegeta would be in his position despite being able to attain such power with all the weaknesses that form presents. And even if somehow he got Ginyu alone and beat him, his main target was Frieza which he could do nothing about. Why would he be lying here? There's no disconnects with his setting whatsoever.
>>136405438
>We didn't see its limit until Cell
Animeonly.
