There has been any thief in anime that actually stealth through things?
As bad as it could be, anime thieves and ninjas are at least always implied to have skills to go unseen, and always have at least one scene in which their abilities are used in such a way.
On the other hand, every time healers are on screen, their role is over simplified to "When someone gets too much damage heal them", and they look like a class that's useful only every once in a while.
In anime, melee is seen as the most complicated class, and healing as the easiest, when in every game ever made it has always been the opposite.
>>136200800
I'm going to have to agree with you. Some of my best RPG experiences were as thieves and the stealth bits are always exilarating.
In anime it's "lol I pickpockets you", followed by a sequence with the MC realizing somethig got stolen and chasing the cute theif down to get it back, only to join the party after a sob story.
>>136200800
Healers.
>>136200800
just post the thief bitch please.
>>136200800
Well most of their role is scouting ahead and picking locks.
And picking up surprise attacks whenever possible.MC tho didn't learn to sneak properly and only learned how to use a dagger and how to pick locks (kek).
Mage only learned ONEoneONE spell that doesn't even deal damage wheras normal mages get a repertoire of several spells.
Warrior is okay i guess if he's going DPS but he's trying to do both that and tank.
Ranata can't even hit shit for a whole book.
Yume doesn't learn how to shoot arrows at target for at least one volume as well and learns how to use basically big knifes instead.
>RPG roles done wright: The manga
And it happens to be a cooking/parody manga.
WHY
Bell manages to be a decent Thief archetype character, though he's closer to a dual classed Mage/Thief once he gets his level up.
Warriors are usually terribly depicted too specially when they are the MC they are too much jack of all trades that can do magic, tank and heavy damage.
MC gets more damage than anyone and still stands and hits harder than anyone.
It's hard to be unpopular.
>>136200800
Tank classes usually end up doing too much damage
>kids in this threads confusing MMOs and RPGs
Pathetic.
>>136203278
As if MMO weren't a kind of RPG
>>136203408
Maybe the very traditional old ones.
Anyone who argues that a tank can't deal a lot of damage is not thinking about an RPG.
>>136203122
my brothers archer did 3k per critic.
my paladin did only 900 per critic. but my defense was so ridiculous. everyone tough I had paid for stats.
his 3k damage turned in 250/300 against my tank.
Definitely healer.
>My tomodachis are hurt!
Cast healing spell
>My job is done!
>>136203733
Only in current LN plain characters, healers used to be cool in anime
>>136203733
Healers are decent in Grimgal. Aside from healing spells they can also get buffs, anti-undead spells and can use maces to put up a decent fight.
>>136203733
Fuck I fucking hate the healer archetype. It's literally the most dick sucking class ever. Much prefer active defense types like the kannagi from log horizon. Mace bashing like >>136205562
mentioned dis pretty cool too.
>>136203733
SLUT
New episode when?
It's hard to say when RPG-styled anime don't actually incorporate a lot of RPG mechanics in a consistent manner. You don't see too many healers worrying about mana management until they've suddenly run out. You don't see them worry about heal efficiency or deciding between a big heal and a HoT or a AoE heal or anything. And frankly, an RPG anime without the RPG mechanics might as well be a fantasy anime.
And specifically to MMOs, do healers ever draw aggro from known, targeted mobs in MMO anime? Or show designated pullers/training mobs into a more advantageous place to fight?
>>136205949
>when the healer's staff turned out to be telescoping and collapsed into a mace worn at the belt
Oh god, I came.
>>136200800
>In anime, melee is seen as the most complicated class, and healing as the easiest, when in every game ever made it has always been the opposite.
That's because apparently in nippon, EVERYONE is a DPSfag.
>>136206890
>collapsed into a mace worn at the belt
I thought it just shrank to make carrying easier but it did look quite heavy so it does seem to be a mace. Would be good to see him smack the shit out of things considering everyone else is a bladefag. I'm just worried he's gonna die cause he's so competent.
>>136207681
It's a DnD item.
>Staff-Mace
>(Source: Dungeon Masters Guide, 2nd Edition):
>This clerical weapon appears to be a normal wooden staff of the type used when trekking in the wilderness. This item is typically made of bronzewood, reinforced by heavy bands and tips of iron. It gives off a very faint aura of alteration magic. Upon command, the staff-mace takes on one of three forms, as desired by the possessor.
>Quarterstaff: quarterstaff +3, iron-shod
>Great Mace: footman's mace +1, iron
>Mace: horseman's mace +2, iron
>>136206890
That's because in first place, healers aren't necessary to anime. In an game you need roles, tank, healer, etc, but in anime (or work of fiction in general) you just need a group of fighters with different skills and personalities.
You don't need a healer in the party in a show, if necessary is enough with giving to one of the characters some first aid knowledge.
You don't need a proper tank either, at most if you wish you can put a big strong guy because its an archetype that you can always work with.
>>136208143
Just like with real RPGs (as opposed to MMOs).
>>136201524
So, why was a healer/support class given to a boy?
Other than each of them not doing their roles.
>>136206890
>You don't see too many healers worrying about mana management until they've suddenly run out. You don't see them worry about heal efficiency or deciding between a big heal and a HoT or a AoE heal or anything.
This is explored in Grimgal later.It also gets the healer killed because he didn't actually understand how do his job as a healer properly and just kept running to the front lines to fight and rain heals on anyone who got as much as a scratch..
>>136208192
In traditional JRPGs you certainly dont need tanks (mostly there isn't even tanks) but you are fucked without a healer in the party
>>136207963
>Giving a level 1 character a +3 weapon
I want to play in that world.
>Said character fails to hit a goblin with a +3 weapon
Perhaps not. Well, I suppose the weapon doesn't have the magical bonuses, only the form alteration.
>>136208343
Where do I get the LN at?
>>136208424
baka-tsuki redirects you to the translators page. Only volume 1-2 are fully translated and 3 in parts.
>>136208283
>So, why was a healer/support class given to a boy?
Because he was the leader and they assumed the healer would have the leisure to actually command the party due to being a support class.
>>136208343
Does Team Scrub ever get un-scrub?What do they do without a healer? Pot rotation?
>>136208373
Most of these anime aren't about J/LRPGs.
>>136208508
Thank you!
>new character
>put everything into charisma and social skills
>your party gets ambushed by bandits
>you convince the bandits to give you their weapons and money
>DM is forced to give all the XP to you alone
Who the fuck needs tanks or healers?
what role does this guy have?
>>136208560
They never become great, but they gradually improve both by learning new skills, getting new equipment, improving their teamwork, using actual tactics and so on.They get an actually competent healer who knows what she's doing, but is so asocial that they spend a while bitching at her for not babying them like their previous healer did and never explaining why.
Why don't they ragequit and become farmers or something?
What was that one new-ish manga where the MC has an edgy prestige class that powers up when he kills party members?
Is it still going?
>>136208758
>>136208811
forgot to post perfection
>>136208806
There are no farms in the vicinity. It's a frontier town that exists for the sole purpose of accommodating the soldiers. They skipped this in the anime, but If you're not an already accomplished merchant or something, all you're going to do is get forced into slave-like labour in exchange for pennies.
>>136200800
Any mainstream class, most of them glorify bad or lowtier classes.
Why did any of their trainers let them out into the world if they ask suck so bad at their respective classes?
And do people regularly come out of that tower or something? The guards had zero reaction to a bunch of people wearing strange clothes coming out of that tower
>>136204097
Remember when Amelia and Zelgadis were useful?Me neither
>>136200857
Healing is generally easy. It can be impossible at times if your group is bad, but that doesn't make healing hard. It's the responsibility of your teamates to watch themselves as much as it is your job as a healer to keep them alive. A good healer can often keep a bad group alive and will go unnoticed for it, but in top groups the healer is the least skill dependent role.
At least in Grimgar, the healer is taking his rightful place as the leader of the group.
>>136209306
>Why did any of their trainers let them out into the world if they ask suck so bad at their respective classes?
Because the trainers don't really care if they die. They already got paid for training them and that's that as far they're concerned.
>And do people regularly come out of that tower or something?
Yes. A decent chunk of new recruits is gathered this way.
>>136209339
>At least in Grimgar, the healer is taking his rightful place as the leader of the group.
Healers make for awful leaders in Grimgal because it's actually a really fucking taxing job that requires a lot of thinking and consideration. Making a healer the leader just burdens him and weighs down his ability to properly handle his role and manage his stamina.
Me, FFXI noob, tarutaru white mage
>been soloing my way to level 18 or so, real hard back then
>don't even have sub-job yet (lower total mana)
>get invite from halfway across the world
>do healering for an hour or so
>got a good knack for MP mangement
>don't heal everybody to 100%, that wastes mana
>get bitched at for not healing enough
>get whacked by goblin on the way back and de-level
At least I got a chance to learn what not to do when I get healing aggro, do NOT run away, run to the DDs and let them pull it off.
>many years later
>fighting a pop boss
>white mage, healing the paladin who is holding one of the sub-boss adds
>paladin loses his internets connection
>blood tank like a boss by casting healing on myself for two minutes or so
>die just before paladin gets back
Fuck yeah.
>>136208917
So, capitalism ho, then?
>>136201135
>lusty whores that suck everyone's cock
sounds about right
>>136209339
Manato is a shitter which is why he dies.
>>136209777
Where did this come from?
>>136209372
Does that ever get explored? The how or why people are coming out of that tower? And are there more towers like that in the world?
Rangers are always portrayed as shit.
>>136210134
Well, they are
>>136209748
>mfw I cleared the 200k goal in a single day by being lucky enough to stock up on a shitload of armor right before the prices rose
It's incredible how satisfying Recettear can be.
>>136209822
/v/.
>>136200800
Akatsuki from LH was pretty stelthy I think
>>136208343
Do people die for real if they die in the game?
>>136211784
It''s not a game, but a real fantasy world. If you're dead, you're just fucking dead.
>>136208713
[RAGE CLEAVE]
>>136209908
It's still not talked about in V6 but there's another thing that sort of links in with it.
>>136200857
>when in every game ever made it has always been the opposite.
AD&D called, they said they invented the healbot stereotype.
>>136213004
I think there's a maximum of 4 people in this thread that know RPGs to be something that isn't MMO.
>>136207681He does die.
>>136209822
Every now and then people on /v/ would make threads asking "Why would anyone want to play a healer?" or something similar to that. Because /v/ is /v/, things would often take the sort of turn you'd expect them to. That is, a bunch of anons agreeing that the only reason to play a healer is because you're actually a huge slut addicted to the cum of other players.
>>136212397
I really hope they don't fucking yell this shit in the anime.
>>136214154
THANK YOU
>>136214154
No fun allowed
>>136200800
Thief always gets depicted as an actual thief when in reality they're melee spike/dps.
>>136215440
>Thief always gets depicted as an actual thief when in reality they're melee spike/dps.
I just want to hilight how ridiculous this statement sounds despite being completely correct in an MMORPG contect.
At least in non MMOs you get to play a proper thief sometimes, I'm sick of the whole melee DPS thief thing while their utility function is completely ignored.
>>136214154
THANK YOU
>>136213090
Both manage pretty much the same concepts since videogame RPG are just an adaptation of tabletop rpgs and mmorpg are just videogame RPG with chat and other people instead of npc.
They way of playing and how the experience feels its of course completly different, but all three manage the same concepts, roles...
>>136211667
Only because her personality was so bland, everyone forgot she existed.
>>136209315
I remember when Zelgadis was a badass who was both good with sword and spells...then he became shit.
Now that I think Amelia was half monk half spellcaster too so I guess that's what happens when you go hybrid instead of focusing in your class like Lina and the retard
>>136215681
Yeah, pickpockering and lockpicking is now something that you can basically perform whatever you roll.
>>136208758
>>136208848
Trench trolling
>>136200800
Was "I am cum" guy a rogue or what?
>>136209339
In the modern team jump rope style MMOs yeah but in older ones healing requires thinking many steps ahead in order to not pull hate or run dry even when things are going smoothly.
On the note of underrepresented jobs would be the support classes, those are the jobs that dictate the flow of a battle but usually just get relegated to buff sluts in anime.
>>136215440
>>136215681
A pretty stupid concept actually.
So you are a thief whose business is burglarly and pickpocketing and occasional hitman, so you join an organized group of heroes fighting for some shit.
Aren't you supposed to actually be an asshole?
>>136215681
In Guild Wars 2 the thief can actually steal shit.
>>136217828
Thieves can be somewhat heroic too.
>>136215440
Thief was the hate management job in FFXI, always a fun story of some DD pissing off the thief and getting the mob SATA'd onto them.
>>136217509
Yes, assassin basically
>>136217828
>what is a gentleman thief
>>136217828
Robin Hood was a thief
>>136218211
Why would ass asin actually spend his time stabbin dragon's ass with RPG party instead of stealing gold from rich asses and hitting the RPG squad after they beaten the boss to take all the loot?
>>136218211
More ninja mercenary than anything.
>>136211784
>>136212179Don't they go back to the original world?
At the end of the first LN you see Manato who wakes up in a cave and returns to his own life after forgetting everything
>>136200857
Youre an idiot right??? RIGHT???....
IF anything support just heal.... DPS just spam botton, but the MELEE its the one who lead the party... And in most of the Japan shi.t anime its always the dumbclass...
>>136217959
THF was also the ZOMG TREASURE HUNTER job. FFXI drop rates were (and still are) infamously shitty, and THF was a minor cheat that would give you slightly better drops.
And if you got the right artifact armor, you went from +2 to +3! Eventually it went completely nuts and you could get like +10 if you got the right gear, so they capped TH from gear at +8 or so, but you can still proc it higher by poking at the mob with a (preferably low-damage) weapon long enough.
>>136217390
>focusing in your class like Lina and the retard
Hey, fuck you, buddy. Just because you're shit at it doesn't mean general spellcasters aren't the most versatile and powerful classes.
>>136217176
>but all three manage the same concepts, roles...
MMOs use RPG aspects. They are not RPGs. It's like calling us flora just because our clothes are made of plants.
In an MMO, you make a tank character and you will never be able to pick locks. The entire spectrum of your roleplaying is limited between the paths of either tanking or DPSing and what kind of melee weapon you wield (let's be honest, it's going to be the most powerful one you find).
In an RPG that's not true.
Take Skyrim for example. What's your class? Wait, there's no classes. You have to choose for yourself what you do.
Also, because it's a single player game, you can afford to not do a complicated calculation to see which set-up is the most powerful one. You just go with what you like.
>>136222216
No one cares about classless systems.
>>136222216
You do know that the full name is MMORPG, right? And you can find class systems and party roles in older Western RPGs, like Might & Magic or Baldur's Gate. They're being minimized in modern high budget games since they need to reach a broader audience.
>>136217828
Those organized groups tend to find themselves stumbling over large amounts of wealth. There's little reason why a person interested in money wouldn't join such an enterprise.
>>136222355
>You do know that the full name is MMORPG, right?
Just because it's called that doesn't mean it IS that. The name stems from the old days, when MMOs were still very different from today.
And speaking of Baldur's Gate, there's several different ways to play a fighter character through the game. You actually have to figure out a personality for your character. That's what makes it an RPG. You're playing a role.
>>136220235
I remember nothing like that.
>>136222216
It's not like classless MMOs aren't a thing. They're rare beasts, but still around nowadays.
>>136222306
>No one cares about classless systems.
Yeah, fuck you too pal.
>>136223185
Check https://grimgalthetranslation.wordpress.com/volume-1/pdf-and-epub/
in the PDF version you can find that chapter in the last pages of the book, it also foreshadows an encounter that happens later on
>>136223310
Love you too.
>>136223251
I'm not saying MMOs can't be RPGs. I'm saying that what most people here have experienced is a game devoid of any roleplaying beyond the use of fancy language.
>>136201774
is that the thing with the short girl with a ribbon under her boobs?
>>136223422
She's got a name you know. I don't remember the name, but I clearly remember that she had one.
>>136223422
>>136223462
You mean Hestia sama?
>>136221075
It's capped at 13 now.
>>136223338
I don't see that chapter anywhere in the raws?Manato's friend also has the same name as the translator.
>>136200800
There's no much point in discussing this without taking a specific RPG or a set of similar ones as reference point, the priest/cleric being the biggest example, going from a purely caster-y class in most videogames to the more weapon-inclined variant that 3.5/PF easily allows for.
>>136218640
Well, he expended most part of the series stealing from rich asses, just he stealed body parts.
He was a hired assassin
>>136224218
Have I been trolled?
>>136224361
All assassins are for hire. If you're not for hire, then you're just a serial killer.
>>136224441
Not sure. Under the Secrets section they have some fanfic story, might be similar.
>>136200800
tried to stabilize the image a little,can't say I did a good gob
>>136225014
>not allowing the trees to move on their own
>>136200800
Yes
>archer
>99% it's a dainty woman
>shoots giant ass beams with it
>doesn't snipe exposed parts with it
>>136225014
Too lewd.I like it.
>>136225014
Good enough for me
>ziiiiiiiiiiip
>>136200800
At the very least she got a nice butt.
>>136209822
Healers are the class that plays babysitter while everyone else gets to have fun.
Generally the only reason to play one is because you drew the short straw and the game is unplayable without it.
>>136225368
>bows don't need strength
Of course, it was even more ridiculous in Dragon Age. Bows have dexterity requirements. But crossbows have strength requirements.
>>136225014
>My watermarks are moving on their own!
>>136225573
And nice legs and midriff. Hunter-chan a sexy.
>>136225368
For some reason most archers end using melee anyway, and I'm not only thinking in Archer, all the archers I remember except the MC of vanadis end doing cqc bullshit
>>136225647
Well, to shoot the bow you need a certain amount of strengh to get to the max tension, but if you have it covered, its all about aim (that is dex) doesn't matter how hard you pull the string because at max tension (regardless it cost you more or less to reach that point) it always will shoot with the same power. So making it dex makes sense.
Crossbow strength is bullshit indeed, but crossbows are bullshit anyway, were so broken that were even banned in the middle ages because any peasant could shoot it. Anyway I remember that stregth crossbow happening in DS but not in DA
MMORPG guild drama would make an actually good manga scenario.
Back in the day when I played an MMORPG in a guild for a few years I experienced many things. It was a multicultural guild and featured every type of drama possible. A power hungry control freak raid leader, rage quitters, shitty female healers with their top DPS boyfriends, attention whores, racism, loot drama and cheating. Unemployed tryhards accusing normalfags for slacking.
And this is a guild with purely grown up people with jobs and college and whatnot. There wasn't a raid without drama.
>>136225975
>but if you have it covered,
Yes, so basically, once you meet the requirements to use the bow.
Do you see?
Make the aiming depend on dex, but give permission to use the weapon based on strength.
>>136200800
Thieves are bullshit anyway.
>Deflecting a greatsword swing with the strength of a frost giant behind it with nimbleness and puny daggers
>>136226033
Its a matter of tastes but personally think what manga needs is an story.
Don't get me wrong slice of life about daily problems in a guld could be nice but I prefer a group of heroes on an epic quest visiting places and doing shit.
>>136226075
>Make the aiming depend on dex, but give permission to use the weapon based on strength.
Fair enough, but remember in DA weapons have level requirement, so you may consider the level requeriment for a bout is having stregh enough to tense it.
>>136226033
This sounds awful. Why do people play MMOs again?
>>136226429
>Fair enough, but remember in DA weapons have level requirement,
Nope.
>>136200800
Melee strength classes are portrayed very poorly, their power attacks trained through years of work and sweat always get deflected by some fagass with skinny arms because of muh inner power.
>>136226362
Might be. The guild drama thing would most likely work best as a 4-koma gag thing which would poke fun at typical MMORPG cliches with 4th wall breaking jokes.
>>136226442
I guess I just liked the original crew. When I started the guild recruited me and gave me advice and gear and I got some good friends. Then people started quitting and our raid leader quit and the new one was a real autistic dude (a number cruncher type, really wealthy due to AH-shenanigans) with shitty human resources skills. I stayd along for the old guys that had been there since the beginning. I guess people do it mostly for friends.
>>136217390
>focusing in your class like Lina
The hell are you talking about?
Lina is a four class multiclass.
>>136226639
>implying people read the source material
>>136200800
>c-f "bard"
>no results
Is everyone just talking about MMOs or something?
inb4 Basara
>>136200921
... ... i didn't realize how much of a trope this is until you spelled it out so plainly. i have seen this SO much.
>>136226771
There's not a whole lot of bards in anime, and please let us not talk about LH s2.
>>136210178
>ffIII (3D)
>keep ranger forever because it can hit above 9999 against multiple enemies with barrage
>pussy-ass ninja and black belt do more damage but only to one enemy and can't go in the back row, do as much damage as ranger when against a solo and basically only useful because ninjas are fast and bbs can hit the actual damage cap (which is useless and takes longer than it's worth in 99% of cases)
>sage just heals and sets up buffs and sometimes has the opportunity to use bm
They were admittedly terrible in the original, though.
