You told me katanagatari was good, /a/.
You were half right, but holy shit how can you endure a mary sue like this? This is almost literally an OC donut steel. I'm at ep 7 and I cannot keep watching, this is fucking ridiculous. This character looks nothing but a self insert.
>my character is beautiful and strong, and can own everyone with just a finger, also the has a special power that lets her copy everything she has seen, she's a cold and calculating person but sounds very sweet xD she's not perfect thought she has a very fragile body!
its the epitome of character development start paying some fucking attention to how their actions and behaviors change from beginning to end. The ending will make this all evident and clear as night and day.
Apparently the word Mary Sue itself is now poison to some people, even if they don't know what it means.
I wish people would stop using emoticons in order to mark things they consider wrong.
Explain to me how this character is not a mary sue. I promise I'm open to change my opinion.
I'll believe you /a/, I'll keep watching but you better not be tricking me again!
Because she's not portrayed in a positive light, where as mary sue is always right and perfect ,counter example would be ONI samaa, everything he does is always right where as Nanami is portrayed more as a psychotic, tragic figure, her power is more of a curse than a blessing.
This is like the textbook Nisioisin style female character. He seems to have at least one of these in everyone one of his stories, at least. I still don't know why people praise this guy so much because other than how he writes dialogue all convoluted, twisty and repetitive and at a rapid fire pace there's little separating his stories from the rest of the light novel waifu wish fulfillment flock.
>Explain to me how this character is not a mary sue.
You don't want to know what a Mary Sue is. The word itself it the problem to you, the stigma that makes a show unwatchable. You probably don't know why people complain about Mary Sues in the first place.
Let me rephrase then.
Explain to me how her character doesn't all the characteristics of a Mary Sue, except for being a self insert which I don't believe she is. Forget the word Mary Sue itself, think of its main characteristics which make it bad. She is super powerful. Super special. Super beautiful. Looks way younger. Has a weakness that never actually hinders her. Tell me one good thing about this character.
She may be a minor character but she broke completely my suspension of disbelief of this show. I just can't take anything seriously anymore after this. I can't care about the characters anymore. Believe, I wish this wasn't the case because I was actually enjoying this show a lot.
>except for being a self insert
The most important part, basically?
>think of its main characteristics which make it bad. She is super powerful. Super special. Super beautiful. Looks way younger.
None of these things are inherently bad. She's an antagonist, and anime antagonists are traditionally like that. Is this your first anime or something.
Mary Sues have a very real problem and you just confirmed that you have no idea what that is:
It's that they are always the fucking center of everything. Most other characters are defined by their relationship to the Mary Sue. If they like her, they're good guys. If they hate her, they're bad guys. The plot and the entire universe all revolve around the Mary Sue.
THAT's why a Mary Sue is a bad thing.
And now tell me how she is a Mary Sue.
The preview for this for this episode had them slicing mountains and the sea in half, what she did was laughably small in comparison. Also when you distort the meaning of Mary Sue to that degree it is no longer is a Mary Sue anon.
>>Explain to me how her character doesn't all the characteristics of a Mary Sue
She's lacking the ONLY characteristic every Mary Sue needs have by definition.
The world doesn't exist to fellate her.
She doesn't matter, she's completely irrelevant. She shows up once in a side episode where she butchers a bunch of people who were weak as fuck to begin with and as minor antagonist.
Her being perfect is the point
She hates how strong she is and it has caused her nothing but pain, that's her backstory
>Mutsue's dad had the same eyes as Nanami
>Mutsue developed a technique to bypass his hax eyes and kill him
>Nanami defeats superwoman Sabi Kokken at age 6 or so
>Mutsue decides that Nanami is too strong and plans to kill her too
>Shichika kills Mutsue to protect his nee-chan
>Nanami has terrible guilt because now Shichika is forever an imperfect deviant blade
>Mutsue died before teaching him all the kyotouryu techniques
>She hoped that by pushing Shichika to his limits in a fight, he would eventually recreate the techniques on his own, like Mutsue did to surpass grandpappy
>she weakened herself by not eating or sleeping for a couple months before her battle with Shichika
>Togame fucked it all up with her scheme
And as the other anons have stated, she's missing the key characteristic of a Mary Sue, namely that the Katanagatari universe doesn't exist to grovel at her feet
>Tell me one good thing about this character
She makes you care about what happens to her almost as much as you care about Togame and Shichika despite her having barely a fraction of their screentime.
Are you guys really gonna keep fucking around because of semantics? You know exactly what I mean. I just wanted you guys to convince me this was all planned and calculated and I could continue to enjoy the show.
Well no reason to keep watching now. Thanks /a/.
The same thing kind of happened to me. I don't know I guess I just find a lot of Isin's writing choices bad at the same time as many seem to feel he's a genius that can do no wrong. I found the show okay up until this episodes and haven't been able to watch any episode since though I was kind of losing drive before that because the usual Isin convoluted bullshit and droning dialogue was really starting to pile up. Still better than Monogatari though by a long shot.
>Are you guys really gonna keep fucking around because of semantics? You know exactly what I mean
This is another way of admitting that you have no idea what you're talking about and trying to get people to move on and ignore it.
>hey guys could you explain to me why fire is so cold
>Fire isn't cold
>stop complaining about semantics, you know what I mean
These tropes don't apply when the character is evil. You have to be a good person to be a Mary Sue, and Nanami is completely evil.
And to anyone claiming she isn't, remember that she slaughter everyone in the ice village, including all of the children but the one. That's evil. She is meant to be portrayed as sympathetic but nonetheless, totally evil.
What about young Shinobu who apparently was so perfectly perfect and radiant that people killed themselves at the mere sight and acknowledgement of her oh so perfect existence, does that count as a Mary Sue?
Like I said he seems to do it in every single work. You can already tell his next one with the super special girl that can't remember anybody's name or face who is even more of precious special little flower than the main character with the same condition is going to be like that too. Then again what do you expect from a guy that writes for otaku who worship him as a genius? He seems to mainly be popular because he takes what is already popular with shut in otaku and pushes all those tropes to their absolute extreme to the point where it somehow gets labelled as parody or deconstruction.
Semantics are the reason we can make ourselves understood at all.
"arguing semantics" matters. Using the right word for the thing associated with the world matters.
If you claim that a bush is a tree, you're objectively wrong. Intentional objective wrongness should always be avoided whenever you can.
Use the right words for the right things, please.
>These tropes don't apply when the character is evil.
There can be evil Mary Sues. I'm still hiding one particularly bad story I wrote when I was 12. The protagonist is an edgy vampire of the DARK kind.
>he thinks Nanami is even close to being Mary Sue in NisiOisiN-verse
> You can already tell his next one with the super special girl that can't remember anybody's name or face who is even more of precious special little flower than the main character with the same condition is going to be like that too.
The whole fucking point of the series is that he's trying to murder her because she's so ridiculously perfect in every way.
Based on what I've read in the thread, you're too stupid to understand why you're wrong. You're wrong by definition and you're insisting that you're right because you have some emotional, not intellectual, beef with the character. Are you a woman by any chance?
Like the series which was literally about the ridiculously perfect girl trying to get herself killed and the other ridiculously perfect girl who started to be so perfect that she stopped being a real person.
Well I notice that it's finally okay to criticize Monogatari now and not instantly having everybody dog pile on you as having the shittiest of all pleb tastes so there's been a slight improvement with that situation, but he's still vastly overrated and seemingly has his own fanboy defense force of the kind that seem to coalesce around entities that had big hits 5-10 years ago. Even the likes of Urobuchi, Maeda, Sawano and the other "can do no wrong" favorites of the Western community are coming down to Earth surprisingly fast of late.
Kyoani's still lagging behind though but has been getting there, I mean hell even SHAFT is coming down to Earth somewhat of late in peoples eyes thanks to Mekaku City Actors and a lackluster season of Monogatari by all accounts. I don't know maybe people are just finally getting tired of all this otaku bait shit getting put on the pedestal all the time and are starting to see it more for what it is.
The point is that he consistently writes female characters this way, not what he's trying to do with them though as >>135996141 points out it's kind of the same thing. I have yet to see a story where he doesn't do this. Even that Zaregoto show is supposedly filled with uber genius perfect girls one of which can solve any case in literally a day no matter what. It's just like an extreme form of wish fulfillment basically.
Uh, I have no idea what you are talking about. I've been here since 08 and I've never seen anybody or anything above criticism.
The only thing that's even close sacred to some people is stuff like Aria.
Was Nanami really evil? I mean yeah she did some horrible things but ultimately she was merely doing what she needed to do so she could help her brother. I'd call her more of a neutral being than an evil one.
Too bad Togame fucked it all up.
Who the fuck is Medaka and Kisshot?
Nanami's more like a force of nature than an evil character.
Aria and Azumanga Daioh are the sacred cows of /a/, but it's okay not to like them if the genre doesn't appeal to you.
Medaka is deliberately bad spelling for Madoka, the protagonist of Pretty Cure.
Kiss-shot is Armor, one of the villains in JoJo's Bizarre Adventures. She shoots people and gives them stands, which is apparently fatal but also very, very fabulous.
Yeah, and he "consistently writes females this way", too. Hanekawa, Togame, Hime-sama, Senjougahara, Monkey, wow, look at all those female characters that are exactly the same. :^ )
Reminder that she tore his nails out so he would stop biting them. Really depends on your definition of evil but she has shown no empathy or concern for human life and that can certainly count as evil.
A new one for my folder, thanks
The ones who failed at their revenge...
The ones who failed at their goals...
The ones who failed before achieving their aspirations...
The ones who didn't succeed...
The ones who lost...
The ones who stumbled...
The ones who rotted...
The ones who fought with all their might, sacrificed everything,
just to have their work be for naught, yielding fruitless results,
who died unfairly, or perhaps illogically, tragically, without face, full of regrets...
The story which offers a happy future for them, filled with hopes and dreams...
...quietly lowers its curtains here.
He's clearly obsessed with the archetype and tries to make it work. And the easiest way to make it work is breaking them in various ways.
Like it happens to Nanami, like it happens to Medaka, like it happens to Anshin'in. Kiss-Shot is the only one of them who is still a functional person at the end of her story.
Yeah and then he dies or gets maimed or gets so bored that he desperately tries to kill himself.
I'm just glad Best Girl survived da Katanagatari.
Nanami wasn't evil, she was just a fucking cunt.
I liked Katanagatari until she murdered B U G B O Y Z
Her killing them wasn't the problem.
Her telling Shichika she razed villages because she was bored afterwards was the fucking problem.
When is it said she is attractive? You know in anime everybody is pretty and true attractiveness can only be on known if its mentioned within the show itself
Also she is literally a monster, she killed a bunch of innocent people
Well, I do agree that she is pretty much perfect.
Why does pengin like tabasco so much? It's not normal for young kids to like such spicy things
>she has a very fragile body
「I wonder about that」. She's a quasi-immortal body. Unknown to poison.
Only in your eyes. Nobody ever said it in the whole story.