So, to recap...
Enuma Elish destroys worlds
Excalibur is equal to Enuma Elish
Solomon's Ars Almadel Salomonis is billions of times more powerful than Excalibur and Solomon himself transcends spacetime and has the power to destroy history itself
Solomon is one of seven grand servants, and being the grand caster is probably the weakest or second weakest
Together, the seven grand servants are strong enough to stand up to... Arcueid's sister's pet dog
I thought it was seven counter guardians that are needed to control Primate Murder (which has a type advantage thanks to being conceptually empowered to kill any human), not Grand Servants?
>Solomon is one of seven grand servants, and being the grand caster is probably the weakest or second weakest
Not if musasho mijamoto is the grand saber.
Or holmes the grand assasin
Houyi is probably grand archer.
How does it compare to CCC?
All we've gotten is that it's voiced by Kawasumi, lots of VAs voice multiple characters in tihs.
Solomon indicated that the grand servants are probably unique ones that could never be summoned as regular servants, because they're too powerful.
Yes. In FSN, Ea is only slightly better in output, but Excalibur has a seal bullshit, when it was forged by Gaia as its finest weapon to deal with planetary threats.
Excalibur is indeed better than Ea.
>Solomon indicated that the grand servants are probably unique ones that could never be summoned as regular servants, because they're too powerful.
And you can't summon Arturia unless she strikes a deal with Alaya to be summoned.
Takeuchi art. Kawasumi VA. Do you even think there's somebody more famous than King Arthur to be Grand Saber? Arturia's already the best Lancer and Rider in the game too gameplay wise, as a fucking 4*.
>Solomon indicated that the grand servants are probably unique ones that could never be summoned as regular servants, because they're too powerful.
Yeah, like full power Arturia.
>when it was forged by Gaia as its finest weapon to deal with planetary threats.
Atilla the Hun's sword is still stronger though
because it was forged by Mars and she's Type: Mars
but shes not best lancer or rider, even in that game. Lancer and rider wise, shes having an okayish np (lancer) and a good np (rider) while her buffs and stats arent that strong, being a weaker version of her saber alter (saber). They cant compete with karna on aoe/mass damage, or scathach on single/boss mobs on lancers as well as drake as way better in atats, crits, star generation and has an equal to better np, while mary and anne are way better on crit amd single hit. Shes good, but not a best in these classes. Shes the strongest saber thozght, but only okita as a saberface, not arthur, who only is good
>but Excalibur has a seal bullshit, when it was forged by Gaia as its finest weapon to deal with planetary threats
But I thought Gaia/planet hate humans.Why would she create/give such weapons to them?.Heck she even created primate murder and even called the Types to cleanse the planet of humans.
>Excalibur is equal to Enuma Elish
Where did you hear this bullshit.
Source or GTFO
>Together, the seven grand servants are strong enough to stand up to... Arcueid's sister's pet dog
Correction. Grand servants playing with the apostles would be like a chiuaua slightly entertaining a pitbull enough to keep it's attention.
I mean, status screen did say that Ea damage is comparable to that of Excalibur. It higher, of course, but they are still on the same level. I'd argue that full Rho Aias could've equalize them.
Arturia's family is connected to Gaia and the land of Britain. Arturia herself is a dragon too, and maybe fae. Her sister turned into a full faery and her uncle became a dragon.
They lived in an age there was still balance between nature and humans, it only got to shit after Arturia's death. Her kingdom was an utopia where humans and magical beings lived sided by sided in a rather harmonious way.
>Correction. Grand servants playing with the apostles would be like a chiuaua slightly entertaining a pitbull enough to keep it's attention
ORT and PM are stated by Nasu to be on a league of their own when compared to Servants. And he stated the fuyuki Grail Servants are based on the real system which is the one required to fight threats to humanity (i.e Primate Murder).
Are you a secondary? Nasu stated Ea (in FSN) is Excalibur equal, if only with a "slightly" superior output.
This was before he wanked Excalibur into being Gaia's finest weapon that deals with threats against the planet in its final form.
In prototype, EXcalibur would BTFO Ea. It BTFO easily Enki which is far more powerful in its full powermode (it can effectively WIPED OUT ALL LIFE ON EARTH - once it charges of course).
Yeah but he said that 7 grand servants are needed to fight "deterring force of the planet" that has an "absolute power to kill mankind". Nasu also mention somthing like that about PM, he could just change CG to grand servants now. So not confirmed but very possible
A deterring force to the planet is humanity and PM is there to deal with it. CG are there to deal with him to protect humanity. Grand Servants' role is something more like that of Type's.
The Japanese don't advertise their mobile games as free, that's a Western thing. The only mobile thing on TM's part that's advertised as free is the Fate route for mobile. Which it is.
>Correction. Grand servants playing with the apostles would be like a chiuaua slightly entertaining a pitbull enough to keep it's attention.
>>Andersen: The summoning of Heroic Spirits is the summoning of the Counter Force, and the Counter Force is what ensures that mankind continues. They appear in seven vessels to strike down a single foe. Who is this foe you ask? Could it be more obvious? A disaster that threatens our world, humanity’s world! An avatar of the end that will destroy not the planet but humanity, destroy the civilization that we have built! Born from civilization but a devourer of civilization, it’s none other than an apotheosis of our own doing. And summoned to defeat it are those who stand at the pinnacle of all Heroic Spirits.
>Solomon: Yes, the seven Heroic Spirits are heavenly emissaries sent to destroy a certain evil. The seven greatest knights of that era who protect the foundations of humanity. The original seven at the pinnacle of heroic spirits. The invocation ritual of Heroic Spirit summoning was originally magic used in a decisive battle to save the world of humanity. The thing that depreciated it so it could be used at human convenience is your summoning system, the Holy Grail War.
>Mordred: You’re telling me we’re second fiddles to you!?
>Andersen: Don’t let him goad you, Mordred. It’s not a matter of rank. It’s the vessel, the authority that he’s given. He’s nothing more than a Heroic Spirit in a greater vessel than ours. If we’re weapons used against individuals, he’s a weapon used against the world. He’s at the peak of Heroic Spirits having the same attribute. In other words, he’s a Servant with a Grand vessel.
>Solomon: Yes, I must commend you for arriving at the truth! I am indeed the king of kings, the Caster of Caster! Thus I grant you the right to hail me as Grand Caster, Solomon the King of Magic!
It was said the Grand Servants are required to fight an enemy that would threaten not the planet, but mankind. And what do you think is the greatest threat against mankind? Primate Murder, even ORT comes not second, but third.
Dark Six is even more threatening to mankind than ORT.
>Q: About the power comparison between Arc and Servants, would the Arc being compared be the 30% one or the full one?
>A: That would be the 30% Arc. It takes 7 Counter Guardians to control the Primate Murder and the Servants of the Grail War are based on these.
>Born from civilization but a devourer of civilization, it’s none other than an apotheosis of our own doing
>Yes, the seven Heroic Spirits are heavenly emissaries sent to destroy a certain evil.
Seems like this would refer to multi-Avenger. Of course, PM > Avenger by Avenger's own admission. So it could apply to PM as well.
Ea=>the output of Excalibur, as in the beam.
The actual amount of energy and the destruction it causes far surpass it. Now assuming ARS can shoot as a focused beam, it should be able to overpower Ea's beam. But as with super Excalibur, we now know that living Gil's Ea > Servant Gil's Ea, so expect that to get a boost as well.
>In terms of scale, it is hundreds of millions of times greater than King Arthur's holy sword. Quite simply, it is an anti-Humanity Noble Phantasm.
He's like F/SN Gil but even worse
>type moon power levels
Remember how, excluding buffs from the grail, a servant can never be as strong as the hero it's based on?
Yeah and that is still a city buster at best and your link only proves it because Gaia instantly reformed itself when Gil used Ea at full power in F/HA.
And what is funny is that the Moon Cell reformed even faster than Gaia.
It's going to be Altera
1) Gods fear her.
2) Everyone wanks her.
3) They refuse to make a NP interlude even if she needs it.
4) She's shrouded in mystery.
5) Sakurai wrote Prototype Fragments and there is an account of a male Attila there. Who is she?
Solomon is obviously pretending to make MC and Mashu power up to stop Attila.
>Gilfags still think Ea is antiplanet
As expected of newfags.
Guess what Excalibur is the sword of promised victory but Saber doesn't win all her battles.
The fact you even take the nickname of a NP seriously just makes you even more of pathetic joke.
Which is why the original guy in the reply chain said that real life Gil(who we'll likely see in the Babylon stage) is probably stronger than Servant Gil.
Just like how Saber doesn't has have Avalon or her Dragon Core as a Servant and how if Solomon were summoned in a Grail War he would likely be limited by his master's mana sully regardless of who his master would be.
I mentioned AAS having to be focused to beat him because we don't know how it functions. If it's raining down Excalibur-like beams like the Human Extinction Attack, then it's not going to overpower Enuma Elish because its destruction is spread over the entire world. If it's just a giant beam cannon with the power of hundreds of millions, then it overpowers it by far.
>More like Gil applies a temporary wallpaper and the world is never gone.
Doesn't Gil actually do the opposite? Where an RM would be what you describe but EE takes off the wallpaper that is the world before the world puts it back on again?
In Zero he kills half of Rider's army, he doesn't destroy the RM. Also destroying a shitty RM, destroying all of Gaia's RM.
At best he can do what Shiki does when he kills Gaia.
Yes, all the times it is mentioned to have done that must be pure hyperbole. Surly, it's just the original dildo or something rocking the world with the power of the original orgasm.
>if Solomon were summoned in a Grail War
He doesn't exist in the seat of servants because he turned himself into a heroic spirit.
>mfw stupid fuckers who never played the games try to discuss them
Thanks for proving your are the samefagging Gilfag who keeps posting his fanfiction in this thread.
A world isn't a planet in the Nasuverse. And Gaia resists Ea pretty fine. Ea doesn't cause permanent effects and Ea did not create Gaia.
Funny because in the youtube videos you pathetically watched since you can't even install a VN, Gil says the mother earth goddess is even more ancient than his own mythology with an entirely different creation myth,
The fact you actually can't distinguish hyperbole in a setting that clashes different myths together just adds another point to the case that Gilfags are just newfag secondaries.
In CCC it's said that Gilgamesh himself was created by Gaia's deterring power to bring humans under control and keep the age of gods alive.
>It was absolute power — the power to destroy the World itself.
>It was enough to delude one into thinking that Gaia/Counter Force of the planet was opposing Gilgamesh’s power to destroy the World.
And since when is anyone arguing that Gil can planet bust?
>It's only 0.2% of its power or something
Did you asspull this number? No, near side > far side. It was stated if BB were to leave the far side the Moon Cell would delete her in a second. The Moon Cell oversees all the near side, but not the far side.
>Called by this name, the Sword of Rupture was the primordial sword present at the creation of the world in the Age of Gods. The role the blade of the beginning accomplished - it was nothing short of that which had cut apart what had been shapeless into Heaven and Earth, what had given a definitive shape to that distinction.
Again, that's its entire point. Take world A, destroy it, and create world B.
>The god, Ea, is believed to be the quasi-deification of the power of the planet which turned, smashed, and stabilized the surface of the earth when it was still covered in gas and seas of magma, during the primordial stage of the earth. Many gods began building nations after the the primordial earth was stabilized into a world where living creatures could live, but Ea is a god who performed the act of building of planet before that.
>Gilgamesh's sword, which is crowned with Ea's name, changes space itself by agitating space-time through the rotation of three layers of giant power fields. Its true power is not something to be used against a single living creature but against the world. Even among the many Noble Phantasms possessed by Servants, it is one considered to be at the top, the sword "which tore apart the world."
I am not name calling, but joining the argument with empty information/knowledge will just poison the well. It is the same as claiming that Akira Toriyama is the guy who made Fate series. Also you are over 18 years old already, why should anyone here spoonfeed me?
If you post the pic of your disability on here I will spoonfeed you immediately.
Good job in proving your case. There is not one line in the translated segment that says "he is not a regular Heroic Spirit." He says several times that he is a Heroic Spirit, but the whole point is that he got the Ferrari while everyone else has the Yugo containers.
>Text says it can destroy the word
The world is effectively destroyed in the area Ea targets. The area is limited, only 1000 targets. The burden of proof is on you to prove it can affect the entirety of the world.
That's just him saying he did it all himself, dumbass. When he's saying Heroic Spirit, he's talking about "summoning" himself as Grand Caster. That's what the Grand classes are, Heroic Spirits.
>There is not one line in the translated segment
are you retarded
>that says "he is not a regular Heroic Spirit."
He doesn't say that you fucking retard, he says HE NEVER WENT TO THE SEAT AND CAN'T BE SUMMONED BECAUSE HE TURNED HIMSELF INTO A HEROIC SPIRIT AND THAT'S WHY HE'S A GRAND
>heroic spirits in the grail war are copies of the heroes in the seat of servants
>solomon never went to the seat and can't be summoned
>Therefore he can be summoned! He summoned himself!
Yes, Ea is one of the most powerful NP and it was so powerful that it can harm the world but it can not destroy it.
Nasu did not shove this 'anti-planet' class NP for nothing, you see?
And it clearly extends beyond that range because it then proceeds to suck the entire area into nothingness. Unless you think it only sucks in the area in the beamzone, in which case you have never looked at any image of IH.
Don't place me on the same level as you incompetent fools. After I died, I resurrected myself and sublimed into a Heroic Spirit by my own power.
>I resurrected myself
brought myself back into the world without needing to be summoned by a human
>sublimed into a Heroic Spirit by my own power.
into the Grand vessel, a living Heroic Spirit, also referred to as the "main body" in CM3 or somewhere else
That does not imply he went directly from dying --> Grand. By nature, a Heroic Spirit is someone on the Throne anyway, and the Grand classes are made for the top 7 Heroic Spirits, which he claims to be part of.
And. The ones summoned to defeat it are those who stand at the pinnacle of all Heroic Spirits.
The seven greatest knights of that era, who protect humanity's foundations. The first seven who stand at the pinnacle of Heroic Spirits.
My name is Solomon. Know me, one of the seven standing at the summit of the Heroic Spirits.
What is wrong in all of these?
Are you retarded? There's a long explanation of how the grand servants have nothing to do with the regular servants/heroic spirits and aren't bound by the same rules WHICH IS WHAT MAKES THEM GRAND SERVANTS because the grail war's summoning ritual is a shitty copy of the original, and the grand servants ARE ONLY AVAILABLE FOR THE ORIGINAL SUMMONING RITUAL.
I'm not sure of how stupidly op Ea would be when Gil was alive but as a servant he can not do that.
I think you will get a better picture of how Ea works if you read Hollow Ataraxia.
Nowhere does it say that. It says the ritual uses the top seven HSs. Nowhere does it say those HSs are unique to that ritual. I think you're forgetting that Saber is going to be summoned as Grand Saber.
In that case, I'd probably still place my bets for Odin being the Grand Lancer.
I can't think of any other particularly special Lances in history aside from Gungnir which would really be "The Strongest Lance"
Odin just being powerful is a bonus
Aren't Reality Marbles weaker than Gaia because Gaia is constantly trying to unmake them?
If he intends it to do so, maybe.
Are you fuckers forgetting how CCC and its side materials established how Gil's been holding back with Enuma Elish all this time? Up till now he was using Enuma Elish on a power level he calls the "law of the earth" while in CCC he switches to the "law of the heavens".
>Are you fuckers forgetting how CCC and its side materials established how Gil's been holding back with Enuma Elish all this time?
He went all out in Stay Night. EA is trash tier, deal with it.
Then you're probably just bad at reading Japanese. I don't know they're level of expertise, but neither of the two translations done by two people (who at least seem to have a high level of expertise) even come close to implying that.
In Zero, it sucks in the entire RM including the sky as if it were actually a thing that can be broken, and it starts to do the same exact thing in strange fake before Enkidu counters him. Just chalk it up to powercreep.
>who at least seem to have a high level of expertise
Yes I'm sure you can tell despite not understanding the language at all.
And yes I'm sure they have really high levels of expertise even though they can't even figure out basic fucking grammar
>Angel of Four Pillars
>no one can agree on how Ea works because it's presented differently in every iteration, is always described in hyperbolic myth format, and is stated to be "full power" every time it's used
This man is a menace, and he needs to be stopped.
How the fuck are we supposed to tell which retarded translations you're using when all you're posting is snippets that are also completely unrelated to what we're discussing, dumbfuck?
In hollow, it just opens up a hole, but it doesn't start sucking in the entire dreamworld. In strange fake, the first thing it does is start sucking in everything in the same exact way as Zero. So either he can stabilize it or just chalk it up to different writers.
Of two translations, one partial translation has been posted in this thread and the full scene translation has been linked in this thread. What other translation would I be using?
>i don't understand japanese and never played the game but i read these fan translations which are 100% correct by the bestest japanese translators ever
Seems more like the fandom tries to make things as they see fit because Nasu likes to use colorful metaphors rather than nail down specifics. It's a give and take relationship, since it enables us to wank, and for him to retool the mechanics as he sees fit.
For instance, people say Sakura's abilties are just shadow tendrils that drain, yet in Hollow it's clearly shown that she opens a void and takes things into a seperate dimension. Meaning all the powers the Shadow used are powers she can use, because they were her powers. But people can't seem to agree what her powers exactly are for some reason.
I do trust people who have been translating this shit for years over a couple anon on a message board who could be in their first year of a beginners Japanese course for all I know.
It's not like I'm even demanding "well, you translate the entire scene!" Just post the two sentences that show for certain "Solomon never died, he became a living Heroic Spirit completely on his own despite that making no sense because Heroic Spirits are inherently beings that exist on the Throne and that the entire purpose of the world being able to summon them is that it's summoning the full heroes from the throne rather than a mere degraded copy like the HGW system."
you find me a transcript then because I'm sure as fuck not booting up the game, going to the scene, and replaying it all over again just to copy the text to satisfy some dumbass who has no idea what he's talking about
Every single person on 2chan uses my interpretation.
>other Japanese speaking users
Population of the entire fucking planet's Japanese speakers: Me and your two shitty fansubbers, okay.
I'll just post the scene where he explains it. I'm neither of the two people arguing.
There's a scene with Modred saying nani but I'm not wasting a minute just to post that.
Then there's a scene with Roman tripping over his own words because he can't believe what he's hearing but I won't post it because he literally just repeats what Solomon said.
Shitty translation says
>While I'm certainly a Heroic Spirit, no human summoned me.
THAT'S WRONG YOU FUCKING RETARDS
He says 人間に召喚される事はない
He CANNOT be summoned by humans
>>>I may be a heroic spirit but could never be summoned by a human
Could just mean he can't be summoned in his grand form aka Caster.
Need to see who the other 6 servants turn out to be.
Yeah, it's actually piss easy to follow the story given how they throw items at you that basically let you cheat at battles, reviving all your characters at 100% meter, that you can use unlimited times (as long as you have them left).
But we have been getting quite awesome designs too.
I'm just glad Takeuchi is doing other characters than Saber decently these days. Maybe he is kept satisfied by the sheer amount of new Saber stuff he can make up.
Grand Saber in the files listed same voice actress as Saber. Saber is hyped to have an Excalibur to save the world. Grands are supposed to save humanity. You'd have to go full retard denial mode to think it'll be anything other than Saber.
>That is where you are mistaken o' Londinium knight. It is true that I am a heroic spirit but I have never been summoned by a human. Do not think for a moment that you incompetents are of equal stature to myself. After my death, I arose by my own power and sublimated myself as a heroic spirit.
Without context that's as close as I'm sure it can be. Don't usually check in on these threads. What's this about grand servants and what's Nasu doing with them?
Missed the 3rd screen.
>A living person and at the same time a heroic spirit. That is what I am. Consequently, I have no master presiding over me.
As of now it's just Solomon showing off and using his status as a grand Servant to shit on everybody else.
Since there's a grand Ascension mechanic it's strongly suspected you'll be able to make your own Servants into Grand Servants later on.
Solomon appears to be the big bad of the story. He's called the Grand Caster and they talk a bit about what Grand classes mean. That's pretty much the gist of how they're relevant so far.
But it is? As an Anti-World NP the most Ea can do is damage Gaia's RM. It's strong either way, but doesn't have anywhere near the necessary output to actually destroy a planet.