So watched this again for the first time in like a decade...still don't get seele's endgame
They wanted to end humanity for what?
Why would you destroy all mankind, are they some philosophical try hard thinking they'll be rewarded for the martyr like ideals...like fucki ng muslims or something
I know one of you faggots knows. I saw a 400 post Eva thread the other day.
Rei is best girl.
They didn't want to destroy humanity. They wanted to evolve humanity to a point where they didn't require bodies because Chairman Keele was an android.
>>135671156
I don't remember him being an android
>>135671521
Then who made the chairman
>>135670364
Didn't they want to go inside the Eva's and become pseudo gods?
They wanted to evolve humanity into a higher state of being; becomes gods and explore the stars.
>>135671725
Eva's aren't gods. They can be destroyed
>>135670364
Why doesn't NERV give the pilots therapy to cope with stress
>>135671795
What defines a "god" in NGE is nothing like an abrahamic god; Eva 01 gets classified as essentially a god once it gains control of the S2 core. It's all semantics, though.
They wanted to head Instrumentality, fuse all of humanity into a single, greater being, and then pilot that being as essentially a god. They weren't able to pilot it in the heat of the moment, so they settled on evolving all of humanity into a giant conensus-driven machine instead. Then Shinji fucked that all up after a little therapy session.
I thought they wanted to control instrumentality which was also Gendo's goal but because of Rei, Shinji actually did?
>>135671665
Nobody. Androids aren't robots.
>>135671894
Correct.
>>135672131
>Androids aren't robots.
Yes they are,they are just robots with human looks
>>135672199
My bad. I meant cyborg. He's still human he just has mechanical organs and shit.
I don't like this series.
>>135672473
Same, it's the definition of overrated garbage
>>135670364
didn't they go over this like three times in the series
seele wasn't trying to kill everyone, they were trying to go to the next evolutionary step, everyone as one single being, our strengths complimenting each other and removing the weaknessses. Their focus wasn't the destruction, but rather what would come after.
>>135672243
Again to what end.
And what was with choking Asuka at the end, was he trying to kill her to prove to himself he really didn't need anyone?
>>135673003
Nobody would ever want to do some shit like that...the whole plot of this seris is dumb. The show is only worth it for mech battles
>>135673071
Asuka represents all the rejection and hatred Shinji felt from and toward others. His attempt to kill her was an attempt to kill those unpleasant feelings.
>>135673071
>to what end
Never clarified. All that matters is he was a cyborg.
>was he trying to prove he really didn't need anyone
The opposite actually. He was choking Asuka because he wanted to see if she would love him even if he hurt her.
>>135673071
Keele wanted to prolong his life so he could see his plans reach fruition.
Open to interpretation. I see it as a measurement of Shinji and Asuka's growth.
>>135673128
The whole point of Instrumentality is that it's not a good thing.
>>135670364
>They wanted to end humanity for what?
Ain't explaining shit. That's just how Anno rolls.
>>135670364
they wanted to be your dad
>>135670364
Because Anno is a hack
>>135673240
Well, Gunbuster made sense.
I miss when Evangelion was good
>4 movies worth have been wasted on rebuild
>>135673406
Not all the details of it but you could say same thing about Go Nagai's works.
>>135673532
the only objectively good part was EoE.
one well directed movie.
>>135673680
>series wasn't good
fuck off nigger
>>135670870
Factually incorrect.
>>135673860
Rei is the best girl.
Now, and forevermore.
>>135673965
They're both trash
>>135673965
Never was or will be. She's an overrated shit for pseudo-intellectuals.
>>135674008
Butt secks
>>135674040
dumb butt mad fire poster
>>135673128
are you ten?
Literally the whole point was that the main character realized it's not good and chose not to go through with it. On paper, it doesn't sound too bad (you and everyone else are reunited with your loved ones as a PERFECT being with no weaknesses or faults) but the point was that Shinji realized that it's our individual experiences that make life worth living, that there is bad in the world but there is also room for good.
>>135670364
They thought humanity was at an evolutionary dead end and wanted to force the next step by breaking down everyone's AT Fields and combining them into a single god-like entity using the Evas/Lilith.
>>135674040
So she's the personification of the show
>>135670364
They wanted to return humanity back to its original FAR state.
>>135674040
>fireposter's opinion
>worth anything
>>135671521
You know, after all these years I finaly understand what that is. I never managed to make out what I was looking at.
>>135674090
So a stupid character learns something painfully obvious, wow this anime is so profound. Anyone who thinks its a good idea in the first place is a complete retard.
>>135674174
>>135674083
>anyone who is able to speak factually of Rei is muh boogeyman
>samefagging
Touchy.
>>135674090
I'm not talking about the main character, I'm talking about seele's who wanted and took initiative for this shit to happen. Where I stand by my point, that literally no one in the real world would ever want to do dumb shit like that.
Stay mad homie.
>>135673718
first half was generic shonen anime, rest was a depressing look into the bleak world of budget miscalculations.
>>135674266
>This anime with giant robots and aliens is unrealistic!
>>135670870
THE BEST!
>>135674266
man I wonder if there are people who think differently from others????
maybe that's why there are different political idealogies and schools of philosophical thought????
>>135674451
Of course not. We just pretend to have different opinions because it makes things more exciting.
It is all agreed that Rei is best girl.
>>135674562
Not at all.
Why did it matter if it was Gendou or Seele who initiated the Instrumentality?
>>135674609
ha ha ha!
what a funny man you are!
>>135674639
Because Gendo and Seele both wanted to control Instrumentality and attain their own, unique goals. Seele wanted to pilot all of humanity as Gods. Gendo just wanted to revive Yui.
The version of Instrumentality we see is different from both of these options.
>>135674689
Same to you.
>>135673532
It's just so frustrating. It's very obvious that Anno has actual talent, but the idea to redo Evangelion in itself was just bad.
NGE is flawed but it worked and most importantly, it was finished. It had an established fanbase which praised the fuck out of it and its cult status only grew over the years.
So even if the Rebuilds were good, you are guaranteed to have fans who'd complain, just because it's different. And even though it can grow into an irrational hate, some of it is justified, precisely because many things didn't need to be changed. NGE worked just fine.
On top of that he is 'required' to make changes. Otherwise people would probably lose a lot of interest. But what would you change? Everything worked they way it was already. So we need to have changes like Rei blocking Asuka's slap in the elevator, which of course is a somewhat cool scene given the context of NGE, but most of it comes from
>Remember when she didn't even react in NGE? Well now she does! Woaaahh coool!
The statement that the Rebuilds are 'how he always envisioned Eva' are simply wrong (assuming he actually said that). It's how he envisions it now.
So no matter how you do it, you'll always do it wrong one way or another.
I don't even hate the Rebuilds as much as others, but I wished Anno would've done something completely different. 3.0 kinda moves away from your usual Eva, but it doesn't work in its context and it's still Eva.
Damn it Anno
>>135674639
Different end goals. He thought Seele's plan was stupid and he and Yui were actively plotting against it. Instrumentality didn't begin according to anyone's ideal scenario but everyone got what they wanted.
>>135674800
Rebuild is Anno's attempt to reshape Evangelion.
There is no story to tell, only characters and relationships to change. That's why it blows.
>>135674800
>On top of that he is 'required' to make changes. Otherwise people would probably lose a lot of interest.
He wasn't actually. The original plan was basically a truncated version of the original series with a new ending, but he realized halfway through 1.0 that he didn't have to tell the same story and that it would be pointless to do so.
>>135674696
>>135674813
But was it ever stated how exactly they meant to control it? Because all I remember is Seele launching an all-out attack on T3/NERV without any implication of what they'd do differently in practice.
>>135674938
The wanted to take control of Eva 01 so that they could put their souls inside it, allowing them to pilot the rest of humanity after Instrumentality went through under their guidance. Nerv fought back, so they weren't able to procure the unit and instead decided to just force Instrumentality anyway and hope for the best.
>>135674696
Pretty sure Seele really wanted the gigantopuddle ending
My theory is that they were worthless autist r9kers who wanted to create tang life so nobody would be alone anymore and individuals wouldn't exist.
Gendo just wanted the one person who actually did understand him back.
Yui wanted to become immortal and let Shinji to make the Choice.
Joke's on us, because Maya was actually behind everything.
>>135674639
Gendo's version takes him to Yui, and he is in control.
SEELE's version makes them the masters in their private ark.
Rei's version gives the middle finger to both and makes a human (Shinji) choose after having experienced it.
All mutually exclusive.
>>135674800
The idea to redo Evangelion in itself is not bad. It's the intent behind it.
Anno intends with Rebuild not to recreate or enhance the quality of the previous work, but to change how characters is perceived. Anno's only lament concerning Evangelion is who got popular and who didn't. It's a selfish otaku desire to see your favorite top the charts. Anno never got that wish with his favorite.
Rebuild is merely his attempt to change that. Any change ultimately boils down to that selfish desire. 3.0 most of all.
>>135675038
Seele did not want the giant puddle ending; they wanted to control Instrumentality and become gods, but they were willing to settle for the general evolution of humanity into a godlike being, even if they couldn't control it themselves.
And also they're coppout losers who don't want to be alone.
>>135675042
Fuck off assmad Reifag. Anno remade Evangelion to make a fuckbillion dollars. He does not care in the slightest about your autistic waifu wars.
>>135674294
The robots and the aliens were the only good part, there never should have been that underlying thing with seele or gendo.
Should have just been face value. Et is coming to earth and we built these giant mech to fuck them up.
>>135675038
>tang life
>>135675159
Your anger at the facts just makes me right anon.
>>135675042
>this rhetoric again
>>135675009
So basically whoever's directly initiating the Instrumentality (or is present, in one way or another, in the Unit that's initiating it) has some control over it? Was this stated/implied somewhere?
>>135675246
Wait, so what's the line of causality here? Has my anger made you correct? So you were wrong before? Do I have the ability to change the fabric of reality with my emotions?
>>135675159
If you read his interviews, it's basically the only thing he cares about. His only comment on any reaction to 3.33 is just popularity-talk among asuka and rei.
Anno just is that shallow.
>>135675287
If they know what they're doing, yes. What we actually got was Rei having full control, but giving Shinji options. She looked at what he wanted - which was essentially for everything to end - and went ahead to start Instrumentality. After a therapy session, Shinji decided he didn't want that after all, and so Rei allowed him to abort it.
Gendo planned to utilize Adam's body and soul with Lilith's body and soul to take control, but Rei took Adam's body and soul from him, giving her power. Seele would likely need to take control of these assets from Gendo as well in order to fully control Instrumentality.
>>135671521
>Kaworu's guardian for 15 years was a salty old cyborg
No wonder why he wanted to die.
>>135675378
I remember maybe one interview recently where he remarks about Rei's dwindling popularity having to do with the fact there's no longer any mystique to her.
>>135675411
Not necessarily, as they control the MP-series.
That was SEELE's key.
>>135675463
And if you ask me, there wasn't much mystique to her anyhow.
>>135675480
The harpies allowed them to conduct the ritual to start Instrumentality, but it didn't give them the full control that they wanted.
>>135675463
Yep, and comments like that are the only thing you'll get from Anno these days.
Anno is way past caring beyond making money and rewriting Evangelion into a more waifu-centric story.
>>135675411
So Rei destroyed all of humanity and forced them inside of her even though they didn't want it just so she could cater to some boy?
That's fucked up.
>>135675541
Then how come in the Eva-related Animator Expo shorts, Rei has the most prominence in every single one and Asuka isn't even there?
>>135675517
How do you know that? They are more than just initiators, they seem more than capable of controlling EVA01.
Until Rei interferes and assimilates the MP-EVA's, they are still parties in control.
>>135675541
You're really blowing a casual observation out of proportion.
>>135675411
Okay, thanks. I kind of missed that, even though I mostly watched the series for the wacky sci-fi/metaphysics shenanigans plot.
>>135675615
Rei has more prominence in Rebuild as well, really. Not to mention in the public eye. It's whatever Anno touches and works on, and even in his newer works Rei stand out more, but only as an object to be criticized most of the time.
>>135670364
they want start the fucking tang cause they believe in the next step in evolution for humans nigga
and fucking gendo cause he misses yui and wants to reunite with her
also, rei best grill
>>135675557
Is it really any better than forcing all of humanity into a single being even though they don't want it just so you can live out your fantasy as a God, or just so you can see your dead wife again? At least with Rei's version, we get everyone put back down with the ability to come back.
>>135675634
Because Seele isn't within Eva 01 calling the shots, and
>Until Rei interferes
Rei has both the souls of Lilith and Adam, giving her complete control. Ideally, Gendo or Seele would have control of those elements.
The fact that Instrumentality is aborted in EoE goes counter to the idea that it's okay by Seele; they wanted to push Humanity forward to become a single, superior being freed of all the downsides that tangible boundaries carry with them. The destruction of that being and the ability to come back from the tang is exactly the opposite of that idea.
>>135675686
Rei wasn't an object to be criticized in the shorts.
If he hates her as much as you say, he wouldn't have presented her like that in the shorts and he wouldn't have presented Asuka in such a pathetic state in the shorts either.
>>135675615
Asuka is in one of them, actually. So is Kaworu. The reason for that is probably because Rei's VA is working on the project as well.
Rei's presence in works like these are comparable to how american politicians spend more time speaking negatively of the other candidates than their own virtues. It's more effective.
>>135675635
Not really, it's been the same tone from Anno the last 20 years. It's not as much blowing something out of proportion as you're trying to silence the matter of fact situation.
>>135670364
>>135675774
Wasn't Rei Q in the shorts? That's already bad.
>>135675776
Your theory doesn't work because Rei wasn't portrayed negatively in the shorts.
Not in the Rebuilds either.
>>135675807
There's nothing wrong with Rei Q.
>>135675776
>it's been the same tone from Anno the last 20 years
Not quite. Not as much as you believe anyhow.
>>135675763
>Because Seele isn't within Eva 01 calling the shots, and
Who says they need be? EVA01 and is pilot is only called the catalyst. It only becomes an actual decisionmaker after Rei interferes.
>Rei has both the souls of Lilith and Adam, giving her complete control. Ideally, Gendo or Seele would have control of those elements.
Not at all, because SEELE's version of instrumentality does not include Adam or Lilith in fact.
Their instrumentality were based on clones of Adam, the MP-series, and the clone of Lilith, EVA01.
Their control is only made through the MP-EVA's. They were getting what they wanted, and what Rei's interference does is to allow the catalyst to make a choice. Instrumentality was already booting up and would gone on unhindered with or without Adam/Lilith.
>>135675774
I don't think either of us are going to make any headway. This Reifag is a rather infamous one that's ran the same rhetoric for quite some time and refuses to listen, even when shown wrong. Not trying to kill any "discussion" I'm just saying this as someone who has had experience with it.
>>135675774
I had that impression, since both shorts I've seen that feature Rei either mimic 3.33's Rei Q, or literally is 3.33's Rei Q.
Rei Q of course, being the ultimate in official Anno strawmen(girl?) for Rei.
Asuka on the other hand, is not presented in a pathetic state at all. Especially not compared to the original NGE-version.
>>135675832
>Your theory doesn't work because Rei wasn't portrayed negatively in the shorts.
>Not in the Rebuilds either.
>There's nothing wrong with Rei Q.
I guess there was nothing wrong with Hitler or Stalin either.
>>135675896
The difference is that Seele ideally wanted to control Instrumentality. They wanted to bring all of humanity into one Godlike being, and then pilot it themselves. They wanted to be the brain of Instrumentality, so to speak. They can't do that when they aren't at the epicenter. In the heat of the moment, they decided that they would settle for just plain creating that Godlike being and being a part of it instead of controlling it. The Harpies were their backup plan in that case.
Then Rei comes in and gives control to Shinji. The point is that, had Shinji accepted Instrumentality, that would be the runner up to Seele's main goal and they'd be satisfied with that. However, Shinji rejects Instrumentality, so they failed.
>>135675868
>Not quite. Not as much as you believe anyhow.
It's just as much as I'd believe, unfortunately.
>>135676043
No, you just want to believe it's that way because the cognitive dissonance is too much to bear otherwise and you're comfy in your persecution complex.
>>135675763
Which is dumb to begin with, like stated elsewhere in thread. Nobody would be okay with that...seele's existence and motives are just too far fetched, that even suspension of disbelief doesn't work.
>>135674905
Has something like this actually been stated, or is it just some internet rumor? Because 1.0 is already significantly different from NGE, even though the most apparent parts are the same. Stuff like Misato showing Lilith to Shinji early on (and herself knowing that Lilith even exists and that it is actually Lilith, not Adam) or the sea being red already are minor changes in itself but they imply a much bigger change for the sequels, considering how these things impacted NGE's story. These could be some of those 'halfway through changes' you were talking about, but it sort of feels like something that may have once been said on /a/ and from then on people passed it on as a fact.
>>135675042
No, I still pretty much believe the idea to redo Evangelion in itself is bad.
I know that it's a prevailing theory that Anno wants to push Asuka and reduce Rei's fandom (or maybe just one vocal anon?), but this just seems silly. In 2.0 Rei acts cute as fuck and Rei Q is not actually 'our Rei', which is said more than once during 3.0. Meaning, if anything he wouldn't make fans angry/disappointed at Rei, but the movie itself for not showing more Rei.
Also there are way better ways to push Asuka than what he did with her in 3.0. I watched it with my brother and he actually liked her less after 3.0 and I can see why.
I agree that the Rebuilds feel a lot more generic anime-ish with waifu bait etc., but if his true intent was to do as you said, it's just such a weird way to try to achieve that goal.
Why do you assume that he wants to destroy Rei's reputation only now with the rebuilds when in EoE there was literally a giant head of Rei with a creepy smile sliced in half? Why do you assume that the Rebuilds are an attack on Rei when NGE had much more off-putting shots/moments/etc. of her?
>>135676035
>The difference is that Seele ideally wanted to control Instrumentality. They wanted to bring all of humanity into one Godlike being, and then pilot it themselves. They wanted to be the brain of Instrumentality, so to speak. They can't do that when they aren't at the epicenter.
Why not, exactly? Your body's locations matters little when all is to be joined as one anyhow. They don't need to be at the epicenter to make it happen when the effect and inclusion 'range' is global.
It also begs the question, why initiate third impact when they aren't there? Seems uneceessary, as EVA01 is not moving and does not react to them biting or attacking their wings.
SEELE had things under control with the MP-Series, but they lost control over the MP-Series when Lilith assimilates them.
>>135675935
You have a losing argument, Mr. Asukafag. Of course you're not going to make any headway. You only protest to protect your position in the waifu wars, which is predictable since Anno's actions favor you.
>>135676088
I have Anno's citations to fall back on. You only have denial.
In a rational world, I win and you lose.
In your own delusional world where you can cup your ears and scream persecution complex, you win. But only there.
>>135676092
Anno makes Rei cute as fuck (in other words, regular Rei from NGE), and then tramples the continuation of the character in 3.0. Fairly standard buildup and teardown.
>Also there are way better ways to push Asuka than what he did with her in 3.0.
There's also better ways to push Rei down than what he did with 3.0.
The only thing that matters is where they stand relatively to each other.
>>135676157
I'm actually letting him know not to waste too much of his time because I've had experience "arguing" with you.
>>135676209
>citations
A few benign comments that you Reifags purposely misinterpret and blow out of proportion? The bottom of >>135676092 is right. There is a ton more imagery in NGE portraying Rei as unsavoury, unhygenic, creepy and off-putting.
Meanwhile Rei-Q "rescues" Shinji from Wille and gets a headless scythe unit evocative of a reaper. Those are just two examples.
>>135676157
>Your body's locations matters little when all is to be joined as one anyhow.
Except when it comes to who's in the pilot seat. There's a difference between being swept up into the big being and being at the center of where everyone is being swept up into.
>why initiate third impact when they aren't there?
Again, in the heat of the moment they needed to swap to plan B. Remember that they're attacking Nerv and they know that Gendo is trying working against them. Whatever they need to do, they need to do it quick. Ideally, yes they would be able to neutralize everyone at Nerv, then take Eva 01 back with them so they could start up Instrumentality. However, that wasn't the case and Eva 01 broke free of their restraints. Because of that, they decided to start the ritual right there, leading them to Plan B.
>>135676309
Shinji only was ever the catalyst in SEELE's version, not someone who was in control.
>>135676263
>The only thing that matters is where they stand relatively to each other.
You mean you can't bother changing your perspective because you view things only cast into a competition because of an Anno boogeyman. And even then you're wrong.
>>135676263
>Anno makes Rei cute as fuck (in other words, regular Rei from NGE), and then tramples the continuation of the character in 3.0.
But I already said, this isn't true. He didn't trample on her, he just didn't show her. Rei Q is not Rei II (or however she is called in the Rebuilds). For all we know 'our Rei' is still pretty cute and has her actual memories.
Additionally, Rei III wasn't very heart-warming either as far as I remember.
>>135676355
I'm not saying he was in control anon. Rei was. It's the person who controls Adam and Lilith's body and souls that has control, which is why Gendo was trying to take Rei's soul before she betrayed him.
Seele's ritual with the harpies was a plan B aiming at a more general Instrumentality giving rise to a consensus driven god without anyone truly in control. Ideally, Seele would have taken control of all the elements and placed themselves in control as the brains of the God.
How many times do I need to repeat myself?
>>135676092
>No, I still pretty much believe the idea to redo Evangelion in itself is bad.
Very well then, I for one believe it deserved a honest remake fit for the movie screen. A good point can be demonstrated in more than one way is my belief, and since I believe NGE's points to be solid, a movie remake would be one way to re-demonstrate.
>I know that it's a prevailing theory that Anno wants to push Asuka and reduce Rei's fandom (or maybe just one vocal anon?), but this just seems silly
Because it really is silly. Really, really silly, but still the apparent truth. There's nothing so far after almost ten years to say otherwise.
> In 2.0 Rei acts cute as fuck and Rei Q is not actually 'our Rei', which is said more than once during 3.0.
I know, and so the previous two movies are the setup, and the third->onwards becomes the trap springing. You have to lift something up in the air if you want to drop it. Had he started with Rei as she is in the third, there'd be no shock.
>Meaning, if anything he wouldn't make fans angry/disappointed at Rei, but the movie itself for not showing more Rei.
He achieved both didn't he?
>Also there are way better ways to push Asuka than what he did with her in 3.0
There's always a better way to do something, including slandering someone. This is the way he chose.
>Why do you assume that he wants to destroy Rei's reputation only now with the rebuilds when in EoE there was literally a giant head of Rei with a creepy smile sliced in half?
Because something like that only enhances Rei's popularity.
>Why do you assume that the Rebuilds are an attack on Rei when NGE had much more off-putting shots/moments/etc. of her?
Because it's not about making off-putting shots or moments, it's about degrading and making a character seem pathetic.
It's all about making sure one stands above the other, and refer to the ending of 3.33. Who has their shit together at the end?
Did Asuka have her shit together around the time Kaworu came around in NGE?
>>135676400
>But I already said, this isn't true. He didn't trample on her, he just didn't show her. Rei Q is not Rei II (or however she is called in the Rebuilds). For all we know 'our Rei' is still pretty cute and has her actual memories.
That's precisely why he tramples on Rei though.
In the original, the character known as Rei encompasses all you see of Rei. Imagine introducing a second Asuka who was retarded in the fourth movie and not showing the one developed so far.
>>135676456
>I'm not saying he was in control anon. Rei was. It's the person who controls Adam and Lilith's body and souls that has control, which is why Gendo was trying to take Rei's soul before she betrayed him.
See the contradiction here? Gendo would be the one in control here, not Rei. Rei can make sure someone gets to make the decision.
>Seele's ritual with the harpies was a plan B aiming at a more general Instrumentality giving rise to a consensus driven god without anyone truly in control.
This is speculation, but if so they invoked their plan B while plan A was still viable.
SEELE is in control of all the elements that matter, clones of Adam, clones of Lilith, and the spear of longinus. The grab their chance, and by using Shinji as a catalyst, they are to force their vision through the MP-EVA's.
>How many times do I need to repeat myself?
As many times as you'd like to be wrong.
What was the main goal of the angels?Why did they try to reach Adam when actually was Lilith inside the base?Where do they come from?
>>135676657
>Gendo would be the one in control here, not Rei.
Yeah, if it weren't for the fact that Rei betrayed Gendo before he could take her soul. Do you not know how to read?
>they invoked their plan B while plan A was still viable.
No, it was not viable
>SEELE is in control of all the elements that matter
No, they aren't. What part of "They need both Adam and Lilith's body and soul" do you not understand? They had none of those things. Gendo controled Adam's body and Soul, and had access to Lilith's body and soul. He was in the process of taking Lilith's soul - within Rei - but then Rei betrayed him, fusing with Lilith's body herself, and starting Instrumentality.
>>135676756
To reunite with Adam, resetting life on the planet so that Adam based life would be the only one to remain. The went after Lilith because they couldn't tell the difference between Adam and Lilith.
>>135676367
I try to get things right. You only pick whichever side is most beneficial for your waifu. If there ever was a competition, you lost it and want to change that. Hence your dismissal, Asuka-fan.
>>135676400
>But I already said, this isn't true. He didn't trample on her, he just didn't show her.
When you build up a character for two movies and conclude the second with a major gamechanger, and don't show the character, then you're snubbing that character pretty hard.
3.33 didn't just not 'show' Rei, it actually created a stand-in that didn't exist in the original. A stand-in who is less intelligent, less capable, less everything than any other Rei iteration has been before.
Rei Q is the perfect strawman for people who hate Rei, it allows e.g Asuka-fags to see Rei as a doll, someone who only follows orders. In other words, not the original Rei.
It went onwards to make a scene out of how Rei was 'merely a clone', and change Yui's surname to match Ayanami Rei's, to further tie them together, where Yui is Rei's ball-chain of sorts. In effect, a scene which aims to humiliate and dehumanize Rei.
Above all, like you said, the problem is that Rei Q isn't Rei, but another character. Rei III might not have been heart-warming, but she was a genuine continuation of Rei III and made it a better character, and without Rei III Rei would be worse for it. Much worse in my opinion.
>>135676001
There wasn't.
>>135676092
>Has something like this actually been stated, or is it just some internet rumor?
Yeah. Anno himself said it in an interview in one of the Complete Records books. I think it was 2.22
>During the making of the first part, “Prelude”, I feel like I was half-fixated on reenacting the TV series. Because we had lacked money, workers, and time, I wanted to recreate the old material. I was so fixated on the idea of reenaction that I was making [the film] without deviating from the timing of the [original] timesheets. Half-way through I realized that it was okay to alter the timesheets. Although it might seem strange, despite [the film being] a kind of “new, digital satsuei2 work”, I was overly hung up on the initial phrase, “film remake”. During the initial screening of “Prelude”, I felt that, if I had gone this far in updating all the images, I could have deviated a bit more from the [original] storyboards. The original conception was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV series, but I felt I was too fixated upon that place. So, from the second part onwards, I intended to abandon those elements “fixated” on the original series and proceed with the feeling that I was making an entirely new work. I would set out from “ground zero”.
>>135676820
>I try
You don't even do that, though.
>>135676773
>Yeah, if it weren't for the fact that Rei betrayed Gendo before he could take her soul. Do you not know how to read?
Let's say Rei didn't betray Gendo. Rei combines with Adam, and so on and so on. Rei is here in full control again, and her ability is as of such to give someone control. Do you know how to read?
The point being is that for all scenarios, including the one that happened, the one in control is not actually Rei, but a central actor. In one scenario SEELE, in another, Gendo. In the real one, Shinji.
>No, it was not viable
Because?
>No, they aren't. What part of "They need both Adam and Lilith's body and soul" do you not understand?
That's bullshit. They didn't need any of those and started instrumentality perfectly fine without them.
They state that clearly in EoE. You didn't pay attention.
SEELE has:
Adam-clones
NERV has:
Adam's embryo, Lilith, EVA01, Rei
SPACE has:
The Lance of Longinus
Hence NERV sits with all the trump cards, and both need the Lance of Longinus. This is why SEELE is so pissed when Gendo throws it away. It puts them at a disadvantage.
SEELE can't start impact without EVA01 or Lilith.
When the Lance of Longinus by chance returns, they cease the day and use the following ingredients to start things:
Adam (MP-EVA's)
Lilith (EVA01)
Lance of Longinus (the real one)
They are happy and in control via Adam.
>>135676893
I sincerely do, while you just advocate a position you know is wrong because this very pandering situation is one you gain from.
>>135676812
So the Third impact can lead to different results depending by who triggers it,right?
>>135677014
You're very adept at describing yourself.
>>135676400
Same thing. He half-built Rei into a poka-poka mess and then threw her away. This denies Rei any deeper character and makes sure the only impression you're left with after watching Rebuild is that Rei is a disposable clone of Shinji's mom with no redeeming quality besides being based on a successful character.
>>135676971
What the fuck is rei then?
>>135676971
>Let's say Rei didn't betray Gendo. Rei combines with Adam
Rei never would have combined with Adam in Gendo's route. Gendo would take control of her soul, and he would be the one in control. I've said this multiple times now you fucking idiot. Pay attention.
>The point being is that for all scenarios, including the one that happened, the one in control is not actually Rei, but a central actor.
And you directly contradict your own misinterpretation above with this.
>Because?
I've already explained why you goddamn neanderthal.
>That's bullshit. They didn't need any of those and started instrumentality perfectly fine without them.
They didn't start anything worthwhile without them. Instrumentality only gained any headway when Rei joined the fray.
You can't read, you can't even stay internally consistent within your own posts, and you don't remember what even happened in the show. You're full of shit and I'm done entertaining you.
>>135677122
Rei is Lilith, the huge body you see downstairs is just an empty shell.
The soul and life-essence of Lilith was drained and inserted into one of the many Rei-clones. This makes Rei Ayanami. It also makes a human interface for which Gendo can interact, and command.
>>135677031
Yeah.
>>135677161
>Rei never would have combined with Adam in Gendo's route. Gendo would take control of her soul, and he would be the one in control. I've said this multiple times now you fucking idiot. Pay attention.
What you say doesn't matter, anon. Gendo's route as you describe it doesn't exist.
Gendo taking control of someone's soul, and all that - where are you getting that from? Is it mentioned anywhere? Can you cite it? Refer to it? Of course you can't. You made it all up.
You just have to accept that you are wrong.
Let me remind you of what Gendo actually says in EoE, he asks Rei to do all those things. To take him to Yui, for Rei to act, not himself.
Rei would put Gendo in a position of control. Rei decided not to do so, and Gendo was fucked.
>And you directly contradict your own misinterpretation above with this.
Not at all. Can you read?
>I've already explained why you goddamn neanderthal.
Not anywhere I've seen. You're wrong too.
>They didn't start anything worthwhile without them. Instrumentality only gained any headway when Rei joined the fray.
Instrumentality had already commenced before Rei makes her entrance, it was booting up and would continue as SEELE wanted. They don't count on Rei to enter the arena, she and Lilith is never mentioned as part of their plan.
This is fact.
>You can't read, you can't even stay internally consistent within your own posts, and you don't remember what even happened in the show. You're full of shit and I'm done entertaining you.
Clearly, that goes for you.
You just can't stand being corrected. Maybe when you cool down, when you're ready to internalize the fact that you were wrong, will you return and perhaps be more apologetic.
>>135676558
The difference would be that (as far as we know) the fourth is going to be the last. Meaning if he'd leave out Asuka, she'd have no conclusion, which would completely suck. As far as things stand now, Rei II has a chance of comming back. In 3.0 we saw a very short moment when another Rei appeared in front of Rei Q and in the 'Until you come to me' short, there is also a Rei in school uniform, which is likely not Rei Q. So there are a lot of hints of Rei returning. Maybe not the way we expect her to, but at least in some way. And if she does, she's likely going to be likeable version of Rei.
Also your example would, like I said, turn the fourth movie into a stupid movie. (Just like I said that leaving Rei II out of 3.0 makes 3.0 somewhat stupid). It's not a good idea to just leave out main characters within a series of movies.
In NGE he let the audience know that Rei III is still the Rei we know to some extent by letting her shed tears on Gendo's glasses, maybe he'll do something similar in the fourth movie. As of yet, we don't know. The only thing that suffered from replacing Rei with a less interesting Rei so far was the movie itself.
There is very little I can add to try to convince you of my opinion. The biggest one is that I feel like an actual attack on Rei's character would've been handled very differently, but it's not something I can back up since it's not a fact, but neither is yours. Though I'd like to ask of you (and everyone who so firmly believes that Anno wants to trash Rei) how you'd react if Rei II returns in the fourth movie (since it's Anno we're talking about, maybe not in person, but by invading Rei Q's body or whatever crazy way you can think of). Right now there is very little reason to like Rei Q, which you guys see as an attack on Rei since she replaced Rei in 3.0. But if there was reason to do so in the sequel, would you still insist that the entire intent of the Rebuilds was to damage Rei's reputation?
![[Bloat]_The_End_of_Evangelion_[A854019B].mkv_snapshot_00.51.38_[2016.01.04_23.09.08].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TZQUvrP.jpg "[Bloat]_The_End_of_Evangelion_[A854019B].mkv_snapshot_00.51.38_[2016.01.04_23.09.08].jpg")
>>135677161
Sorry pal, but you're beat. The MP-EVA's were going to finish things. They got far enough to more or less be ready to tang everyone.
SEELE never intended to use the actual Adam or the actual Lilith, they explained themselves that they would use the MP-EVA's and Lilith. This is also surmised by Fuyutsuki, who says they will be using EVA01 as a medium.
"The MP-Series have been our faithful servants, and this is the reason they were created."
The data-readouts are the exact same as when 2nd Impact happened.
This was all without Rei interfering.
>>135676878
Damn, this actually decreased my hopes for the Rebuilds even further. It feels like there wasn't nearly enough planning, though that's also what happened during the creation of NGE, so who knows.
Though I don't feel like getting my hopes up.
>>135677119
>makes sure the only impression you're left with after watching Rebuild is that Rei is a disposable clone of Shinji's mom with no redeeming quality
And you're saying she's different now, somehow?
>>135677350
>The difference would be that (as far as we know) the fourth is going to be the last. Meaning if he'd leave out Asuka, she'd have no conclusion, which would completely suck
Assume he puts her in the last scene then, or another movie. It would suck, and would suck still.
>As far as things stand now, Rei II has a chance of comming back.
Of course, but what does it matter? The character is already spoiled and dehumanized, denigrated. There is no possible way to finish this character, in a sense, it has nothing any more to finish. Just showing a character isn't enough.
>Also your example would, like I said, turn the fourth movie into a stupid movie. (Just like I said that leaving Rei II out of 3.0 makes 3.0 somewhat stupid). It's not a good idea to just leave out main characters within a series of movies.
Everyone realizes it's a stupid move. Yet Anno made such a stupid move. His intention can only be to precisely trample on Rei.
>In NGE he let the audience know that Rei III is still the Rei we know to some extent by letting her shed tears on Gendo's glasses, maybe he'll do something similar in the fourth movie.
I've considered more or less every possible option here. If he makes Rei Q the actual Rei, then he will just be making the "dummy/retard rei" into the real Rei. Which is just as bad.
>There is very little I can add to try to convince you of my opinion. The biggest one is that I feel like an actual attack on Rei's character would've been handled very differently,
What if I told you, that this is the precise best way to handle the attack?
>your question
I expect Rei II to come back, and so does everyone else. It doesn't change anything, the attack is in the past already.
>>135677350
Rei II will definitely be back. Fuyutsuki even said she's being stored in Unit 01 for now as part of Gendo's plan. I think Rei Q will probably take on a new name before the end to cement the fact that she's a different person.
>>135677350
What do you mean "firmly believe"? Its a well-known fact in the fanbase. Anno has been trashing Rei for his entire post-EVA career. Go ahead, find me one statement from Anno that isn't dismissive of Rei.
I don't know if you're new or just pretending that things are nicer than they are, though.
>Though I'd like to ask of you (and everyone who so firmly believes that Anno wants to trash Rei) how you'd react if Rei II returns in the fourth movie (since it's Anno we're talking about, maybe not in person, but by invading Rei Q's body or whatever crazy way you can think of). Right now there is very little reason to like Rei Q, which you guys see as an attack on Rei since she replaced Rei in 3.0. But if there was reason to do so in the sequel, would you still insist that the entire intent of the Rebuilds was to damage Rei's reputation?
Absolutely. It doesn't matter what the final movie does because as far as damaging a reputation goes, you only need to do it once. Because Rei is just "cute clone girl" in NGE as opposed to the stronger heroine in NGE, bringing back "cute clone girl" is just insult to injury.
>>135677784
>insult to injury
sounds like rebuild to me
>>135675615
>>135675686
Rei has more prominence in Rebuild than ever before becauseshe is actually the soul of Shinji's child, hence why their relationship is so unusually close and weird in these movies. Like why he literally goes berserk to save her at the end of 2.0, receives a telepathic message from her in 3.0, is prompted to join NERV because of Rei Q in 3.0 and so on.
While NGE was a growing-up story about the issues that come with adolescence; such as a poor image of self, sexuality, fear of forming relationships with others and so on - Rebuild is about the transition into adulthood and what comes with it - namely responsibility, finding a life partner and eventually - parenting.
It sounds nuts at first but I can assure you that if you rewatch the Rebuilds with this in mind, then all of it starts to become incredibly clear.
>>135677350
Look, I'm a fan of Rei's but honestly, I expect Rei to return. Problem is that I don't give a fuck. There was the chance to develop Rei in a new direction with 2.0, but they didn't do that and instead left Rei out entirely. (They did worse actually, but let's leave it at that)
So, okay. Here I am, thinking; they won't develop Rei in a new direction then, they've go two movies left. That's a lot of time to do character development. Maybe they'll do something like the original, and stick to that?
Nope. Not even that. Rei is still gone, and they follow the plot Rei was part of but with not-Rei instead. Oh wow, brilliant, now even Evangelion has fucking Rei-clones.
It's just a spiteful attack on Rei. Even though he had time, even though the character is perfectly suited to this exact role Rei Q is performing, they shut Rei down.
>>135678004
>There was the chance to develop Rei in a new direction with 2.0, but they didn't do that and instead left Rei out entirely. (They did worse actually, but let's leave it at that)
You could say the same for the entire cast of Rebuild, sans Shinji.
>>135677924
Second guy here. I have a knack for dealing with theories "as-if-true". I assure you that it's just as garbage still.
>>135678036
>You could say the same for the entire cast of Rebuild, sans Shinji.
You can't.
Notice how every single cast member in Rebuild has either moved on, forged new alliances, developed differently? How they're part of a 14-year long ongoing story ? Asuka in 3.33 is a much different person from 2.0 Asuka and NGE Asuka, as is Misato.
Rei is nowhere, no one.
If we were going to have Rei "die" and re-use the plotline of the original where Rei III doesn't recognize Shinji or remember well, then why not use Rei? Misato/Asuka doesn't have their original storylines in Rebuild at all, so they are developed differently.
What Rebuild did was to keep some of NGE Rei's contribution to the story but factor out Rei herself.
you guys arguing about Rei are just proving the rebuilds are garbage
>>135678048
I won't say that they're entirely true, but you definitely begin to perceive the movies in a different light, and one that makes more sense than just simply referring to the old anime for factual back-up.
People have to keep in mind that Rebuild has different lore, narrative themes, impact mechanics and so on from the original series. Ayanami series clones like Rei Q do possess some form of sentience or degree of soul, eva 01 is not a clone of Lilith, Seele's plans are very different now, Shikinami is not Soryu in terms of personality or desires, the sexual tension between Shinji and the girls is gone for a reason and so on.
trigger warning
>>135678257
Worse than grandpa dying.
>>135678253
There is a better explanation for the changes in Rebuild, and it's the only theory that is one hundred percent consistent.
There isn't a single change or evolution on Rebuild that doesn't contribute to Anno (as a symbol of anti-Rei waifufaggotry) writing in for the sake of demoting Rei and promoting Asuka/Kaworu.
>>135677679
Nah Fuyutsuki was just lying. That's why he asks Yui to "forgive him" after manipulating Shinji.
There's nothing inside unit 01. The 0% synchronization rate is our first big blue. Rei Q was supposed to go inside unit 01 via vessel of Adams/Mark 09 merge for this reason. Because there's nothing inside of it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rei's soul was split into fragments and placed into several Rei clones to assure the ascended status of the remaining Adams for a future instrumentality event.
Hence the 3 loli Reis surrounding the original Rei from 2.0's Quickening preview for 3.0. Rei Q is probably one of the 3 little ones seen here.
Misato>Rei>Asuka>Ritsuko
Purple best.
>>135678519
All of these constitute shitting on Rei.
Let's take a big sledgehammer to Rei's very soul to split it in tiny pieces and step on those too.
Let's do everything we can in our power as writers to make sure Rei does not have a consistent character arc.
It's a long way to fall down from the original, where Rei's soul was literally an irreplaceable soul of an ancient goddess.
>>135678340
Anon, just try rewatching the films with these theories mind and see what you make of it. You'll be surprised when you begin to notice how so many things line up.
>>135677645
>Assume he puts her in the last scene then, or another movie. It would suck, and would suck still.
Yeah, that's because a last scene still wouldn't be enough. It all depends on when Rei II will return in the fourth movie whether or not she'll have enough screentime to at the very least have some sort of conclusion that is not complete shit.
>>135677784
As far as I know, Anno has always been trashing the fans' attachement to Rei, not Rei herself. And rightfully so, seeing how most people like Rei for entirely wrong reasons.
Rei is a really cool, interesting and even likeable and occasionally cute character, but she is not the waifu type character her fans make her out to be.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's the right thing to dislike the Rebuilds, but you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
It's possible to clone people. If you clone Asuka and treat that clone like shit I won't think any less of the actual Asuka, although I'd might feel bad for the clone. To be honest I think that the bottom one >>135678004 is, while different, also a very interesting take on 'cloning', since it's a more realistic one.
If there was Rei Q and Rei II within 3.0, I wouldn't have thought of it damaging Rei's integrity, just because there is more than one. If Rei II manages to have a meaningful character arc despite being just one out of many it makes it all the more impressive and delivers a great message ala 'it's not only your genetic material but also your experience that make you who you are'.
The problem with the Rebuilds is that all these things come out of nowhere and there is not enough time to build on those ideas. Most timeskips suck and the Rebuilds had one of the worst kind.
This is probably my last post because there is barely anything to talk about, but I still doubt that this was Anno's intention. I think he just made them unintentionally shit because of his urge to be different from NGE.
Wow all this shit about the movies
Glad I never got past the first one
They seem convoluted as fuck
>>135678716
I can already imagine them lining up, thank you.
It's shit.
>>135678749
>Yeah, that's because a last scene still wouldn't be enough. It all depends on when Rei II will return in the fourth movie whether or not she'll have enough screentime to at the very least have some sort of conclusion that is not complete shit.
I said another movie as well. It would still be an awful thing and would hamper the character. Rei is present from start to finish in NGE. Rei will be the only major character to be cut compared to the original.
>>135678519
He asks Yui to forgive him for being a piece of shit and emotionally wrecking Shinji to further his and Gendo's plan. He ensured that Shinji would be desperate enough to fuck Kaworu and Seele over when the chips were down.
Shinji probably can't synchronize with Unit 01 because of Rei being in there now. Her mission at the end of 2.0 was to make sure he would never have to pilot again. It still worked for him at the start of the movie, but now that he's out, she won't let him back in.
The Vessel was trying to hijack the Wunder, not Unit 01, as it was originally the master of the ship, whatever that means. Seele doesn't give a shit about it or any other Eva except for their precious Eva 13.
I do think one of those Reis might be Q. She even has that uniform lying in a box outside her shower stall bedroom.
>>135678594
Yes and no.
Her soul and role in the impacts is still very important. She plays a key role in every single one. Rebuild's impacts can't happen without her, or rather, they can't happen without her soul (fragments or not) effecting them in some way.
>>135678749
>As far as I know, Anno has always been trashing the fans' attachement to Rei, not Rei herself. And rightfully so, seeing how most people like Rei for entirely wrong reasons.
>rightfully
Explain how that's true, and moreover: how it's not true for the other characters as well.
Anno is a man who makes porn doujins and gets overtly invested in fiction himself, Anno is just making a strawman because she's popular.
>Rei is a really cool, interesting and even likeable and occasionally cute character, but she is not the waifu type character her fans make her out to be.
That's a strawman.
>Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's the right thing to dislike the Rebuilds, but you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
You're avoiding to understand the Rebuilds. It's right in front of you.
>If you clone Asuka and treat that clone like shit I won't think any less of the actual Asuka, although I'd might feel bad for the clone.
I guarantee you that you will. It is easy to say, but as a matter of fact, people were upset at even changing Asuka's surname prior to even having seen the character. You are bluffing here.
>To be honest I think that the bottom one >>135678004 (You) is, while different, also a very interesting take on 'cloning', since it's a more realistic one.
It's not a take on 'cloning' at all. It's not attempting to be realistic either. There is no attention to the cloning process or anything at all. This has all to do with displacing Rei and replacing the character with a caricature. 3.33 fails entirely in any aspect of realism and avoids making any 'take' on anything.
Either way, it is ditching Rei.
>>135678970
Which literally doesn't matter. This is a character we're speaking of, and being put in a soul-grinder is shitting on Rei no matter how much you rephrase it.
A character with deep-seated insecurities concerning her own soul and nature, to have that so soundly demolished while made powerless to act, is shitting on the character.
>>135678966
>The Vessel was trying to hijack the Wunder, not Unit 01, as it was originally the master of the ship, whatever that means.
The vessel was trying to hijack Wunder's control system, which has something to deal with unit 01 being inside its core. Hence it dispersing itself into sludge to reach Wunder's core, where unit 01 was sealed.
Also, you're forgetting Mari's warning to Rei Q, where she suggests Rei Q should eject from her eva before she "turns into the vessel of Adams." What do you think would've happened to Rei Q if she didn't eject herself and Asuka wasn't there to stop the vessel from completely turning itself into core-sludge? Chances are she'd be absorbed along with it, and her soul transferred over to Wunder's core and unit 01.
>>135678749
>>135679035
>If there was Rei Q and Rei II within 3.0, I wouldn't have thought of it damaging Rei's integrity, just because there is more than one.
You would, as did everyone else. It is already a fact that Rei Q has been damaging. That was the intended purpose of the character, and only that.
>If Rei II manages to have a meaningful character arc despite being just one out of many it makes it all the more impressive and delivers a great message ala 'it's not only your genetic material but also your experience that make you who you are'.
No such thing is possible. The story lacks the seriousness for it, and it cannot carry the message. It cannot ever be impressive due to the wanton nature of the events that transpire, and without a character to build on we only have a hamfisted pseudo-message that will only do more damage than good.
It's too big of a bite for Rebuild to swallow. Moreover, it doesn't solve the issue concerning how the changes effected so far only exist to change the balance between characters.
You can't keep pandering Asuka and Kaworu, hoisting them to idol-levels of glorification and still have a 'serious' Rei story.
I mean, cut the crap. Do you need to be told how treating Asuka, Misato or any other character the same was as Rei would look to understand?
>The problem with the Rebuilds is that all these things come out of nowhere and there is not enough time to build on those ideas
Nonsense. I saw it coming before I saw the movie.
There is FOUR MOVIES worth of content. When the third one abandons the other half, it did so with intent to kill.
There is no other explanation that makes sense, and if you wish to delude yourself with hope for a miracle, then you waive your right to say anything at all.
>>135679177
Rei Q a shit.
3.33 a shit.
They're all joke characters designed to either attack or falsely praise the NGE-characters. What happens to them does not matter.
>>135677924
>transition into adulthood and what comes with it - namely responsibility
Except a major part of Shinji's character in original is that, learning to accept responsibility for his own actions. Not to mention the adults facing their problems in the original.
You sound insane.
>>135678749
>. If you clone Asuka and treat that clone like shit I won't think any less of the actual Asuka, although I'd might feel bad for the clone.
HAHAHAHAHAHAA no
Asukafags would go ballistic let me tell you that. 'Clone' characters either need to be protagonists or really well-developed characters to get any sort of respect from an audience. The bias against such characters isn't possible to avoid otherwise. You can argue the moral good of viewing life as equal, but you're an idiot if you think people follow those morals perfectly.
Rei managed to become popular only because she was well-written enough, with justification to be a clone tied to her story and character. It wasn't just because "clones are cool, let's add that because it's a sci-fi thing".
>>135679631
Not that anon but it's a popular kaworufag theory. They are people who don't care about character quality or the story, only autistically piecing together pointless trivia and faux-interpretation into a framework that creates nothing, and only aids shipping.
>>135679035
Talking to you is such a pain. I guarantee you this is my last post, I'm very tired and my attention span is sinking the further we talk.
I'm going to do this as short and simple as possible. Sorry if I don't include every single minor detail.
>Explain how that's true
People like Rei because they think they'll have a great time with her as a girlfriend/wife/whatever. This won't happen. Don't ask why, there are plenty of reasons shown in NGE.
>and moreover: how it's not true for the other characters as well.
Well, it is true for other characters as well, but seeing how Anno is japanese and most japanese people like Rei he probably doesn't notice their waifu faggotry for Asuka or Misato that much. He probably assumes that if people like Asuka they are 'man enough' to handle a woman with an attitude, like he said in that one interview where he calls out japs for probably not being able to handle Asuka. Of course this probably isn't true since it's not that people 'embrace' Asuka's flaws, but ignore them. It's just that he doesn't notice it as much.
>That's a strawman.
As far as I know, it's a true statement.
>You're avoiding to understand the Rebuilds. It's right in front of you.
I didn't know I was talking to Anno's cousin who knows everything about Anno and the Rebuilds.
>I guarantee you that you will. It is easy to say, but as a matter of fact, people were upset at even changing Asuka's surname prior to even having seen the character. You are bluffing here.
Apparently you're my cousin as well. Trust me, I wouldn't think any less of Asuka. It's not her, it's her clone. Tough shit Asuka II, I wish it didn't have to be this way, though I still like Asuka, since I'm not an idiot.
Everything else you said, including >>135679328 is so fixated on Rei it's incredible. I wouldn't use this buzzword if it wasn't true, but you're literally projecting your disappointment onto Anno's intentions. Everything that happened was just to fuck with Rei.
>>135679918 CONT
Shitting on Rei (as you'd say it) is just a by-product of the Rebuilds being shit. I mean, damn Anno must truly hate Kaji. First, Mari takes away his speech from 2.0, then he doesn't even appear in 3.0? Fuck you Anno, now I'm gonna destroy all my Kaji posters and figures. Truly, Anno's sole intention when creating the Rebuilds must've been to shit on Kaji. I bet he was jealous because Kaji is so much more man than he will ever be. All the signs are there, you're just too blind to see it.
Kaji-fans arise!
>>135679661
I don't remember saying anything about Asukafags. See, I'm not your usual idiot who is blinded by waifu-faggotry. I like almost the entire Eva cast, but I still wouldn't mind. There is nothing else I can say regarding this subject.
Goodnight
>>135679953
>I don't remember saying anything about Asukafags. See, I'm not your usual idiot who is blinded by waifu-faggotry.
If you mention Asuka, you mention Asukafags. They are the ones going to be primarily affected.
>>135679918
That is unfortunate, because I feel you have major misconceptions that are easy to show are wrong. Take this for a taste if you aren't wanting for more, to think on before you sleep:
>People like Rei because they think they'll have a great time with her as a girlfriend/wife/whatever. This won't happen.
How do you know this? Because from where I stand, it appears that it is Rei's great and original character that makes Rei popular. Every unnerving moment, monologue is required to make Rei what she is, this is the source of Rei's popularity.
There are hundreds of "good-to-be-with" anime characters before Rei, yet none of them reach critical mass in recognition like Rei does.
Therefore, you must be wrong.
Further proof can be found in renditions of Rei. Make a Rei character with a poor story and quality, and we fall back on the original. This is not the case for other Eva characters.
If anything, Rei is unique in the requirement that the treatment and story clinches together.
>>135679918
>Well, it is true for other characters as well, but seeing how Anno is japanese and most japanese people like Rei he probably doesn't notice their waifu faggotry for Asuka or Misato that much.
He would primarily notice the fandom for Rei. But the fandom for Rei is vast. It's more than just otaku fandom, Rei is an icon pertaining to Evangelion, a status something only a titular robot achieves. There's a giant Gundam Statue, and there's a giant Rei statue.
The attraction to Rei is in Anno's own words, "national". (ref. Atlantic interview)
But Anno would also know that the other characters are popular, and his only gripe is that they aren't as popular.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLfQSoVhrM&t=8m0s
He penned this, after all. Earlier (around 6:40, Asuka complains that Rei is #1 despite having less lines and she can' figure out why)
>He probably assumes that if people like Asuka they are 'man enough' to handle a woman with an attitude, like he said in that one interview where he calls out japs for probably not being able to handle Asuka. Of course this probably isn't true since it's not that people 'embrace' Asuka's flaws, but ignore them. It's just that he doesn't notice it as much.
Yes, now you're bringing in relevant stuff. Anno indeed said that, and ask yourself: who the hell says that? Asuka fans, of course. In the same interview, Anno says his favorite is precisely, Asuka.
Keep in mind that he was only ever asked his favorite. The jab at Rei fans he added in on his own accord.
It's clear he does notice, but to protect his own fandom and to alleviate his frustration that Rei is more popular, he slanders Rei fans and alludes that Rei is weak. Everyone who watched Evangelion that gives an honest recounting of it knows Asuka is weaker than Rei.
>you're literally projecting your disappointment onto Anno's intentions. Everything that happened was just to fuck with Rei.
Not everything, just the parts I've mentioned. Who's to say I'm not right?
>>135679953
>Shitting on Rei (as you'd say it) is just a by-product of the Rebuilds being shit. I mean, damn Anno must truly hate Kaji.
Never seen any interviews from Anno indicating that.
Although, we have for Rei on multiple occasions.
That's one point.
>First, Mari takes away his speech from 2.0, then he doesn't even appear in 3.0?
You're right. Anno ditched Kaji as well. However, didn't a lot more happen?
Rei has an ongoing character for two Rebuilds, zilch for Kaji.
Rei got dismissed, degraded and otherwise narratively slandered, whilst Kaji - technically speaking - got off quite lightly.
It is better to be unmentioned than to be mentioned and insulted here.
That's a second point.
>Fuck you Anno, now I'm gonna destroy all my Kaji posters and figures.
I was not aware there were such posters
>Truly, Anno's sole intention when creating the Rebuilds must've been to shit on Kaji. I bet he was jealous because Kaji is so much more man than he will ever be. All the signs are there, you're just too blind to see it.
Given the above, we can conclude with some certainty that it was Anno's intentions for Rei. Rei is a far larger character than Kaji is, and more integral. They are not comparable. Anno does not shit on the old-lady Kaji visits by not including her. He left her alone.
Shitting on a character has an active part. With Kaji, it is only the passive part, which allows Kaji to 'rest in piece' as it were.
>Kaji-fans arise!
They should as they have my sympathies.
>>135679723
You haven't been able to debunk a single thing they said, though.
>>135680670
Nor have they ever been able to bunk anything. That is what
>autistically piecing together pointless trivia and faux-interpretation into a framework that creates nothing
means.
>>135680718
Nah dude, that's just called making theories.
It's in part why the Evangelion fanbase has been so active to this day. It's part of our culture, our community.
>>135680767
No, it's called:
>autistically piecing together pointless trivia and faux-interpretation into a framework that creates nothing
>>135680794
Well, that's one way to define theory I guess.
I don't agree with everything that anon says either, but looking back at the trailer at the end of 2.0, where there's Rei and two children behind her all with purple eyes kinda makes sense now.
>>135680872
>>135680767
It's not even a theory. It's not even at the stage of a hypothesis.
What it is, is Kaworufaggotry at it's most autistic. It's a weave of semi-related nonsense cherrypicked from various part of the story, put together in such a fashion that it creates nothing wearable, nothing decorative, and nothing even remotely usable.
If Evangelion is a ball of yarn, then that theory is the equivalent of scissoring it up into unusable pieces .
>>135680925
So why do you think Rei had purple eyes and two smaller Reis (also with purple eyes) behind her then?
>>135680872
Retard. Theories are testable, backed by substantial proof and evidence, and can be verified as false or true given parameters already inherent to the theory.
It's not even an explanation because it explains nothing either.
>>135680963
I think Anno is a hack that threw together a trailer he was going to abandon three years later.
I think Rei having purple eyes only means they chose to color it purple in that scene due to poor color environment or error.
Even just to keep you guessing.
>>135681018
But then how do you explain this?
>When I asked Anno-san “What’s going on in the scene with the multiplying Reis?” he gave me a clear answer which I can’t disclose here, but Director Tsurumaki and other staff were super shocked. Later on, they said, “Thank you. We were able to understand a lot thanks to listening to that recording session.” Their comment made me think, “Anno-san’s craftsmanship is really something.” That’s what I found most impressive about the whole thing. (laughs)
>>135681075
The explanation is already there. There is nothing of value to explain.
>>135681018
But Rei also is wearing the same school outfit from episode 26, and there are several alive Reis behind her too.
>>135681118
Anno gave Hayashibara an answer for it, and the other staff members were surprised.
I think that means something.
They wouldn't just put Rei in that specific outfit and give her purple eyes for no reason.
And then Anno wouldn't give the seiyuu a reasoning for it if there was no meaning.
>>135680995
Like all grown men I know there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I know for a fact that writers, designers include wanton elements merely just to make you ask that question.
To lure in otaku such as yourself into asking questions that solve nothing, to solve problems that don't exist, and to artificially keep you interested by tricking you into believing there is an answer.
It's more likely that it is an issue with coloring rather than any thought out.
>>135681075
What about that? I think it's obvious it means nothing because the same person is quoted as saying:
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
after having known that little tidbit.
If you want something more concrete, then it's going to be eternally failed Rei's to represent Rei clones to further dehumanize Rei, as is Anno's apparent goal in life.
>>135681184
Asking a question about a mysterious scene doesn't make someone an otaku.
In that case, Hayashibara would be an otaku.
>pointless to speculate about Rei
Even so, she still asked the question and got an answer.
And after getting that answer she was amazed by Anno's craftmanship.
I think we'll just have to see for final which one of us is right.
>>135681181
>I think that means something.
Like what?
>They wouldn't just put Rei in that specific outfit and give her purple eyes for no reason.
Oh really? They wouldn't just abandon that very trailer for no reason either, would they?
They wouldn't have Gendo say "yeah, this is going as planned" in 2.0 for no reason either, would they?
They did just that. Anno literally had them do something and didn't think it through.
Let me tell you something, Hayashibara has given up on Rei. Because she knows the truth, that Anno is aiming just to degrade the character. This is why she also says if my memory does not fail me, that speculating about Rei is _literally pointless_.
There you have it, trust the seiyuu if you want, but they agree. There is no point.
>>135681243
>Asking a question about a mysterious scene doesn't make someone an otaku.
In this case? Yeah, it does.
Because normal people know there's nothing to be found here, and only otaku would spend this much time piecing together a thousand-piece puzzle with only one or two pieces.
>>135674562
>that bitch is touching muh Rei
man i'm so glad she got the worst death
>>135681248
>Like what?
I don't know, I'll wait for final and see if they touch on it.
>They wouldn't just abandon that very trailer
They didn't abandon it. It's what happened during the 14 years.
That's why Mark.06 is in terminal dogma.
>Anno literally had them do something and didn't think it through
But according to Hayashibara, and even Ishida, he did think it through.
That's why they're both amazed by his craftmanship.
>Because she know the truth
Uh, where did she imply that? She's impressed with Anno.
>>135681292
>Yeah, it does
No, it doesn't.
If people see an interesting scene, they will wonder about it.
That's why mysteries and shows like LOST are so popular.
>>135681243
It's not just a mysterious scene, it's a scene with no point. There is no mystery to solve in answering it.
Because the answer itself would have to make something worth answering to begin with.
Only an otaku would care about such trivial and pointless things.
>Even so, she still asked the question and got an answer.
An answer that she has to admit literally doesn't matter.
Just like I said.
I can tell you, right now, from all the experience I have with this fanbase and NGE, there is not a single answer that can be given that is conductive to the betterment of Rebuild much less Rei's character.
That train sailed long ago.
>I think we'll just have to see for final which one of us is right.
We know now. Let me requote the seiyuu who unlike you, knows the answer already:
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>>135681371
>That's why mysteries and shows like LOST are so popular.
Idiots followed LOST.
They were repaid with disappointment, because for all the faux mysteries it created, it answered none.
Ratings dropped, critics slaughtered it long before the ending.
Only a hardcore group of autismal believers, otaku, remain taking the whole deal seriously. You wait to be served an answer that means nothing.
You will meet the same fate as the LOST fans. Disappointment. Regret.
>>135681371
>I don't know, I'll wait for final and see if they touch on it.
In other words, there is nothing. It's not worth speculating about.
Megumi agreed.
>They didn't abandon it. It's what happened during the 14 years.
They abandoned it.
>But according to Hayashibara, and even Ishida, he did think it through.
No, they said nothing of the sort. Regarding 2.0 and the trailer, it is literally made factual that Anno didn't think about it, and that they should just have them say that for now.
>That's why they're both amazed by his craftmanship.
The craftmanship of one who tells no story but implies one. That's what they are impressed by.
>Uh, where did she imply that? She's impressed with Anno.
She was told the truth. Given the clear answer.
She is not impressed, here is the proof:
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
She only says that to kiss Anno's ass for promotional reasons.
When a VA says they literally don't care about the character they are voicing, you know it is truly pointless.
>>135681382
>There is no mystery to solve in answering it
Yes, there is. They mystery is: why does Rei have purple eyes and why is she wearing the outfit from episode 26 and why are there other Reis behind her?
You haven't given any credible answer for this, so it is still a mystery.
>only an otaku would care
No, only a normal person would care.
>An answer that she has to admit literally doesn't matter
She never said that. She got the answer and found herself amazed by Anno.
Not only did Anno have an answer for her, but it clearly made her impressed.
If the answer was something stupid like what you're suggesting or belittling Rei, then she wouldn't be amazed.
I'm excited for Rebuild's conclusion.
>>135681432
>>135681531
Nah, you're just reaching.
I'm gonna laugh at you when final hits though.
>>135672473
>>135672882
hear hear
>>135681545
>Yes, there is. They mystery is: why does Rei have purple eyes and why is she wearing the outfit from episode 26 and why are there other Reis behind her?
That is not a mystery. It is as much as mystery why the seats are turned left in one scene, and then right in another.
You ask a pointless question, and you are rewarded with an inevitable pointless answer.
>No, only a normal person would care.
Only an otaku.
>She never said that. She got the answer and found herself amazed by Anno.
She said this:
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>It’s pointless to speculate about Rei-chan… actually, trying to do so only makes things worse. I don’t see the point.
>If the answer was something stupid like what you're suggesting or belittling Rei, then she wouldn't be amazed.
See above.
>I'm excited for Rebuild's conclusion.
You're a fucking moron then.
>>135681607
You are reaching with a fucking retarded theory.
Those who know the answer to your little nonsense, know the truth:
That it's not worth speculating about.
That is the final answer.
so why did the mass produced evas form creepy rei heads and why did giant naked rei have half of her head with exposed guts and shit
what was the reasoning for that
I heard a theory that she was supposedly intentionally trying to freak Shinji out as much as humanly possible (supported by SEELE talking about Shinji's "ego-barrier" dropping or some shit) so it'd be easier to get him into experiencing instrumentality, but idfk
>>135681545
>Yes, there is. They mystery is: why does Rei have purple eyes and why is she wearing the outfit from episode 26 and why are there other Reis behind her?
Literally WHO FUCKING CARES
What does this answer? What do you get by knowing? Do you have literal autism or something?
>>135681675
>so why did the mass produced evas form creepy rei heads and why did giant naked rei have half of her head with exposed guts and shit
>what was the reasoning for that
Already explained in the series. Your theory is shit.
Rei is taking control over the MP-Series. She is assuming direct control. This is represented by Rei's face growing on them.
>>135681545
Yeah, she was so amazed she pretty much said Rei is a lost cause as far as speculation goes. What part of "sucking up to the director" is hard for you to get?
>>135681181
>Anno gave Hayashibara an answer for it, and the other staff members were surprised.
>I think that means something.
Probably amazed at how insulting it was to Rei or how incredibly dumb it was.
What did he mean by this?
>>135681911
>so how do you want your trailer senpai
>i dunno, just give me something to tide the idiots over for the next flick, throw some shit together
>basically just fuck my shit up senpai
>say no more, say no more
>>135680963
It's a small and obvious indicator that they aren't her. Why Rei's eyes are red besides as a convenient sign of strangeness isn't provided to begin with, they get established as strange and also strange from her with just eye color.
>>135682058
this looks beyond fucking retarded
I enjoy the Rebuilds.
>>135682670
If 3.0 wasn't such a mess they wouldn't even be that bad.
>>135682670
3.33 is the reason Rebuild is shit.
That said, fuck you and the whore you crawled out from.
>>135682698
Was it great? Nah.
Even so, I enjoy 'em.
>>135682715
That's not very nice.
>>135678257
>>135682670
u 'avin a laff m8? u havin a gigl?
u r 1 litlle cheeky cunt m8 ill hook u in the gobber i sware on me mums life and i no u are scared lil bitch gettin your mates to send me messages saying dont meet up coz u r sum big bastard with muscles lol ****in sad mate really sad jus shows what a scared lil gay boy u are and whats all this crap ur mates sendin me about sum bodybuildin website that 1 of your faverite places to look at men u lil ****in gay boy fone me if u got da balls cheeky prick see if u can step up lil queer.”
>>135682912
Asuka is best girl.
>>135682776
Fuck Rei Q. Fuck Anno right in his tiny jap ass.
SEMPER REI
SEMPER FIDELIS AD REI
SEMPER FIDELIS AD REI
SEMPER FIDELIS AD REI
SEMPER FIDELIS AD REI
>>135681632
>>135681666
You're gonna look real stupid when final comes out.
Almost as stupid as you looked when 3.0 came out.
Rei has purple eyes in the Quickening preview because she now shares the properties both fruits, thanks to events that happened in 2.0.
Her soul was trapped inside an angel's core before it was taken into unit 01's.
Notice all of the impacts, mini impacts or progressive steps to impacts we've seen so far follow this pattern:
2.0
>Rei's soul is trapped inside Zeruel's core
>angel is killed, Rei's soul takes the remnants of it's lcl and core and is transferred into a Shinji-controlled unit 01
3.0
>11th angel is a giant core, core turns into a rei head
>angel is then killed and absorbed by a Shinji-controlled eva 13
2.0
>blue angel core infects eva 03's core
>Rei was supposed to be its initial test pilot instead of Asuka
>results in a failed-mini impact that creates a crossed-shaped crater and transforms Asuka into something not quite human
3.0
>mark 09 infects Wunder's core/control system with blue angel core
>Rei Q was the one piloting it, meaning that her soul was going to contaminated by this core material before being transferred over to Wunder's core, containing unit 01.
See where this is going?
Angel core contaminates Rei(s)
Rei's contaminated soul is transferred over to an eva's core.
An impact is triggered.
>>135683363
Nigger, the only one looking stupid was Anno for making 3.0 and the idiots who thought it was anything but trash.
>>135670364
They wanted to evolve humanity and become the gods of a new race. Unfortunately there plan and Gendo's plan backfired thanks to Yui.
>>135683411
>the only one looking stupid was Anno for making 3.0
Yeah, just look at how stupid he looks bathing in all this money.
What a loser, right?
Ha ha.
>>135683363
>3.0 comes out
>it's shit
If you mean stupid for watching the thing, then you've got me.
>>135683398
>Rei has purple eyes in the Quickening preview because she now shares the properties both fruits, thanks to events that happened in 2.0.
Ever heard of a "non-sequiteur" before?
Post best girl
>>135683454
Notch makes more than Anno did in 20 years over the span of five.
George Lucas is bitter and named for an idiot despite being wealthier than both Anno and Notch combined.
Anno looks like an idiot for having made 3.0 regardless of what his bank account says. Literally the worst rated EVA movie in history.
>>135670364
>still don't get seele's endgame
Their endgame is literally to get rid of human flaws and mistakes and sins by killing off everyone into orange gatorade
>>135683363
>3.0 comes out
>it's garbage and gets called out for it
>4.0 comes out
>????
Not really sure how it's going back at the audience, but whatever.
>>135683526
They made that honorary tribute to Anno a couple months ago, and 3.0 was listed as one of his works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzPqgOl3A4o
He's still famed and respected in Japan, he was even asked to direct Godzilla.
And he's drowning in money.
And laughing at you.
>>135683666
I really wish he would come back and finish off this abomination that is Eva
>>135683482
>Ever heard of a "non-sequiteur" before?
Yes.
But you cannot deny that there is a base pattern to these impacts, with Rei being a staple of it it.
Rei or Rei-like thing gets contaminated by angel.
Angel likely dies.
Contaminated Rei or Rei-like thing is transferred to Eva core.
Impact is triggered.
>>135683482
No, you were made stupid based on what your wishes for 3.0 were during 2.0's release.
You Reifags were revealed to be delusional crazy ass shippers who got your just desserts.
>>135683398
>See where this is going?
Nowhere.
Where's the character? Where's the plot? Where's the story? Where's anything that isn't a glorified two-piece puzzle for autists?
>>135683713
And then a double whammy with the Manga.
It just doesn't get better for you Reifags, huh?
>>135683666
Just like the bitter Lucas and Notch then. Kek.
>>135683768
And yet he's still more successful than you'll ever be.
Cry more.
>>135683712
There's a pattern like there is a pattern in taking a dump.
Underpants off, ass down, shit out, wipe clean, ass up and underpants on.
It's an eternal cycle mankind is doomed to repeat forevermore. How deep.
Sarcasm aside, your pattern has no meaning or end in itself.
>>135683727
>Where's the character?
Snug as a bug developing inside a core, then evolving the rest of humanity along with her.
>Where's the plot?
The impacts drive the plot forward. Seele wants to evolve humanity into god-like beings.
>Where's the story?
In 2.0 and 3.0.
>Where's anything that isn't a glorified two-piece puzzle for autists?
It's there, it just wasn't what you wanted so you childishly decide to ignore it at all costs, deeming it useless when it is in fact quite important.
>>135683713
>>135683759
The first one is mostly Asukafags dissing Sadamoto because he's a Reifag, but the second, eh. Legit grief?
>>135683890
>asukafags ship Rei x Shinji
Yeah, no.
Didn't someone post a poll some time ago where Reifags ship more than Asukafags?
>>135670364
They wanted what Sinji did taking away everyone's AT field so we become one hive mind of no doubt, no secrets, no lies. Sinji just added that if you want you could regain your form and exit the orange slop.
>>135683890
>caring about a fictional cartoon character so much you get that dramatic
>caring about a fictional cartoon character so much you're more sad than when your grandpa died
I think this thread proves Reifags are the most mentally insane and otaku-like in this entire fanbase.
Anno was right about them, they need to grow up.
>>135683868
>Snug as a bug developing inside a core, then evolving the rest of humanity along with her.
If it's inside some random place, it's nowhere at all. It needs to be on screen, acting, developing, thinking.
Is God a character in the movie adaptation 'Da Vinci's Demons', or any other religious movie? I think not.
It is nowhere.
>The impacts drive the plot forward. Seele wants to evolve humanity into god-like beings.
This is not the plot itself, and what plot has it driven so far? None. It is as opaque and unformed as it was before any of these events. The pointlessness of the impacts are proven in their wanton nature and lack of drive, they happen but there is no consequence or reaction within the story.
Hence there is no plot. They are like the opening and ending credits of a film, they do not drive the film.
>In 2.0 and 3.0.
You have to actually recount the story, not name two movies.
>It's there, it just wasn't what you wanted so you childishly decide to ignore it at all costs, deeming it useless when it is in fact quite important.
It's there, it's there, but nowhere you declare?
There is nothing there. You are wasting your time. The plot of Rebuild is as fickle as a candle in the wind.
>>135683851
>Sarcasm aside, your pattern has no meaning or end in itself.
Yes, end goal and meaning is using Rei to evolve the rest of humanity into evas - or more appropriately, gods.
That's what the failures of infinity are, incomplete humans trapped within an incomplete instrumentality.
That's why Fuyutsuki claims that Rei is inside unit 01.
That's why the failures of infinity are headless clones of unit 01.
As for the heads? Well, there were thousands of human skulls in Terminal Dogma. Wanna bet who those skulls once resembled? Probably Rei. Hence Lilith's decapitated head resembling Rei, or the 11th angel's core body revealed to be a giant Rei head with even more Rei heads inside of it, as seen here.>>135683398
>>135683963
>Yeah, no.
They don't ship it, that's why they dismiss the manga by calling Sadamoto a Reifag.
>>135684001
That's you for falsifying evidence.
>>135684040
>>135683963
>samefagging Kaworufag
That poll was debunked as a Kaworufag had faked it's translation.
This is the depths shippers of the Kaworufag kind will go to.
>>135684040
Might as well post the others
>>135684089
>>135684078
You can say whatever you want, I have confidence there are other people in these threads that know moon, or can at least understand kana, and should be able to figure out what the poll is asking and what won second place for themselves.
