Since there's no IBO episode this week let's talk about some superior Gundam series.
I am Ruplong, the Avenger of Samples.
I'm watching it right now since there's no new shows for a few days.
Sochie best girl.
>>135615973
You should really get the BDs, they look amazing. Probably the best looking Gundam series.
Even if you don't have enough space, just download a few episodes of them at a time and delete when you're done.
Yep! Let's talk about some superior Gundam series.
>>135615707
>bring up superior Gundam series
>post a Tomino series
get out of here /m/
>>135615707
Post Gundam lewds
>>135616783
>IBO
>better than any Tomino series
Nah, man
>>135615707
I dropped it at episode 16 or so. Does it get better?
>>135619687
yeah but not for a pleb like you
>>135619687
It does but it's certainly not your type of show.
Turn A was great from the beginning for me. Dianna best girl.
>>135615707
>Turn A
>superior
nice joke.
>>135619687
If you didn't enjoy the episode that Diana changes her role with Kihel that's supposed to be the end of your trip.
>>135620313
stick to a/z
>>135615707
>let's talk about some superior Gundam series
Kudelia a shit.
>>135616000
This was the last Gundam filmed on cels, right? It would be at the peak of that era of technology.
>>135620471
Marina literally did nothing during Season 2. Nothing. 100 times worse than Kudelia you biased piece of shit
>>135620471
Relena is fucking autistic
>>135615707
>let's talk about some superior Gundam series.
What, that leaves out 3?
>>135620538
>Marina literally did nothing during Season 2
Marina did the best thing ever, she threw all shipping bait attempts into the trash bin. Kudelia is drowning into this shit. Marina is better by default, also she managed to properly raise 6 children on her own.
Opinions on thunderbolt?
I think it tries to hard to be "cool".
>>135620545
Relena was insane, strong and got shit done. Call me when Kudelia stops being the most useless jew in the universe.
>>135620644
Just because IBO is all you have seen doesn't make it better you retard
>>135620723
It's pretty. Also jazz. It's also pretty. And short. Read the manga if you want to discuss anything about it.
>>135620723
what the fuck does that even mean? this is the most empty critique on anything i've ever seen
>>135620743
The fact is that IBO has a charm that most of other Gundam series don't have.
>>135620644
Yes AGE, WING and SEED.
Wait, those are the only Gundam shows worse or as bad as IBO
>>135620793
Just because IBO is all you have seen doesn't make it have a charm you retard
So Guin wanted to fuck Loran's boy pussy since the beginning, right ?
ooweeooweeooweeoowee
ton-a-ton, ton-a-ton, tonnnaaayyyyy
>>135620793
The stupid exposition and unanimated mecha charm?
>>135620823
Since he shot the wolf
>>135620743
That implied only 3 Gundam series are worse than IBO, you idiot.
>>135620823
Who didn't?
Lel Okada is literally destroying this fandom
>>135620723
It looks very good I guess.
>>135620884
It's like this every time a new series comes out you fucking newfag
>>135620814
>IBO
>no charm
Did you miss the circus mutant freaks that are the evil adults?
>>135620872
Harry wouldn't . He'd rather granny princess.
>tfw like every other gundam series the second opening and ending of IBO are going to be shit compared to the first one
>>135620884
I want her to write a sequel to Code Geass, you know, just to have a good, loud, ironic laugh.
>>135620776
Well I didn't want to write a paragraph. Not my fault your thickheaded.
>>135620928
>Harry wouldn't
>>135620997
And i don't want to read a paragraph written by a retard like you
>>135620960
You've never seen 00 S1 or Zeta?
>>135620823
I like him.
He's the most clever guy in the show.
THE MUSTACHE IS A MOON
>>135621065
>>135621038
Or Turn A.
Or GnR.
Or ZZ.
Or Wing.
Or AGE.
Or G.
>>135620960
From the aqueous star with love was great.
Just posting best gundam pilot.
>>135621111
Those are all shit compared to the first one, thanks for proving me right.
>>135621065
Why was Turn A so great?
>>135620960
>00 s1 ed2
>shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wg4mIpnfpQ
end yourself my friend
>>135621153
>toonamifags thinking their 15 year old opinion counts
>>135621153
You ended up posting the wrong guy.
>>135621161
Watch them instead of shitposting.
>>135621161
>century colour
>silent voice
>rhythm emotion
>worse
shit taste detected
>>135620960
You're wrong.
ZZ had Silent Voice > Anime Ja Nai
Wing had Rhythm Emotion = Just Communication
G Gundam had I trust you forever, which is slightly less than Flying through the Sky
V had Don't Stop! Carry On > Stand up to the Victory
>>135615707
I dont think i can be bothered with IBO anymore
That whole bullshit with guts brother just came out nowhere and was resolved just as quickly as it appeared and the show expects me care. Same with that kiss. And char and garma just appear for no other reason than to deliver exposition. It seems like somethings going to happen soon but i feel like i've been sitting through filler for 13 episodes
>>135621255
Oh and Zeta's OP 2>>>>>>>OP 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSycojV_L1A
Turn A was boring while I was watching it but in retrospect it's my 2nd favorite Gundam. It feels like an adventure and there's no autistic bitches and whores shit or ESP. The suits are creative but still fit the franchise.
I think I was bored because there's a lack of a bad guy to keep the plot focused on 1 thing but that's my fault for being a simpleton.
>>135621255
>Turn A
OP1 > OP2
ED1 < ED2
>GnR
OP1 = OP2
>ZZ
OP2 >>> OP1
ED2 > ED1
>Wing
OP1 >= OP2
>AGE
They were all kinda decent.
>G
OP1 = OP2
ED1 < ED2
>>135621296
It strats alright but shits itself in the end, also
>purple-haired four
>purple newtype-eyes
>>135621282
>char and garma just appear for no other reason than to deliver exposition
Last time they appeared for no real reason beyond loli screentime.
>>135621225
>Century Color better than Turn A Turn
Just fucking kill yourself
>non-tomino
>good
>>135621296
the fucking aspect ratio change at 1:00 makes me rock hard
The day we have a Gundam thread that isn't just full throttle shitposting will be quite a day indeed
>>135621905
4chan is an 18+ site so obviously it's going to be shit because it's filled with adults and their lies
>>135621928
>posting ZZ
Is the Thunderbolt OVA standalone or do I need to watch the older series first?
Turn A had all best girls
>>135619635
This
IBO is "you tried your best" whole Tomino gundams are flawed at worst.
>>135622363
It's part of 0079's one year war. It's like watching Unicorn without watching ZZ
>>135622439
Cool, thanks.
About to start victory gundam after I watch F91, how is it?
Also does Late UC gel together like Early UC or are they basically separate entities.
I take it we all agree Puru is best girl across the entire franchise?
>>135622380
Lily a shit
>>135622472
they might as well be AUs
>>135620927
It got old when the frog people showed up.
FUMITAN da best TRAITOR
>>135615707
This is the best artstyle
>>135622930
Watch King Gainer
>>135622533
She is a worst girl who was actually a best girl all along
>>135615707
Just posting the greatest Antagonist and Character of Gunda
>tfw there would never be a character as good as CHAR again in Gundam
>>135622862
Based brats.
>>135615707
>>135615792
Best drills. Best hime. Best girl.
>>135623215
>char.jpg
>clearly First Officer Quattro Bajeena
what?
>>135621282
There's so little happening in each IBO episode you may as well just look at the screencaps posted in the threads and save yourself 25 minutes of boredom.
>>135621905
When we get a good series again and or people forget about recent series then maybe.
>>135622472
It's a mixed experience. There's some cool things, but it completely veers off course when the plot takes back seat to toy commercials. I seem to remember most of the last half being non-stop battles which made it quite a slog to watch.
Late UC kind of gels together provided you read Crossbone; then there's Gaia Gear which throws back to Char and brings up (another!) Zeon group.
>>135623368
So never on account of /a/'s bullshit and not being able to agree one what is and isn't a good series ever and not just with Gundam
>>135622862
>>135623292
She will redeem and will die portecting Kudelia?
Gundam X?
>>135623406
>what is and isn't a good series
The broad agreement on /a/ and /m/ is that AUs (apart from X) are shit.
>>135623450
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX63XB2N04A
Good OST
>>135623555
>apart from X
You have no clue.
>>135623593
the start of the first op is really fun to hear on SRW
>>135623660
>SRW
Never forget Tiffa starts with NewTypeLV5, making her the strongest newtype of the whole game
FRY THE SKY
>>135623955
I WANNA HAVE
A PURE TIME
>>135620823
He should have been the final boss instead of Gym Ghingham.
>>135624228
You wanted Guin to get inside a mobile suit and fight Loran?
are you fucking retarded?
>>135621255
Anime Ja Nai is the best stfu
>>135624319
Yeah.
He's a better antagonist than some hairy space samurai who comes out of nowhere.
>>135624381
>are you fucking retarded?
>yeah
oh ok then
can they hurry the fuck about origin.
if only they use it to "remake" 79
>>135624445
Nice argument, /m/emeboy.
>>135624453
The Origin is only going to be the shitty Char flashbacks and it is not canon you faggot just watch 0079
>>135622422
The only Tomino Gundam that was meh was ZZ, Tomino put a lot less effort in this one than any other, probably because Zeta already burned him out.
>>135624947
F-91 was shit
>>135624975
F91 is a special case but yeah, it downright sucks in its current form.
Not gonna lie, IBO is my second gundam since G. Are any of the others as much fun as G was?
>>135624975
I really enjoyed F91 despite the pacing issues, but I feel I give it way too much credit for "what it could have been" instead of "what it actually was."
>>135625625
Build fighters was fun, you won't get a lot of the references if you aren't a Gundam fan though.
>>135623215
Posting the cuck
Haha this kid
>>135620960
While I enjoyed the hell out of Stand up to the Victory, Don't Stop! Carry On was actually GOAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is7A_htB54g
>>135625897
>cuck
I hope you're not talking about Reccoa, she left because Quattro didn't give a shit about her
Is it bad I loved Turn A's ED?
>>135626019
What's bad with it? I think it's amazing.
>>135625951
In Zeta Define and the Novels he gets cucked properly
>>135625845
Which series would be a good starting point then?
But are you badass enough to survive re-entry in a barrel?
>>135622472
Victory is one of those polarizing ones where you'll either really love it, or really hate it. It combines all the goofiness of ZZ with the death and despair of Zeta, then amps that up a fuckton.I fucking loved it.
As for all the Late UC series, they are mostly separate entities. The Crossbone manga is a sort of sequel to the unwritten sequel of F91, sharing some characters and hinting at some stuff that happened, but pretty much its own story.
>>135625897
Are we cuckposting now?
>>135625797
There was a lot of interesting stuff that could have been done with F91.
I wish we could get a full F91 series and a more adult Crossbone-inspired sequel.
>>135626133
>Zeta Define and the Novels
>>135626172
I'd say start from the original and go along in production order, if you want to get to the FUN straight away though watch Build Fighters.
>>135626172
Production order.
>>135626232
He got cucked deal with bitch boy
>>135626280
>>135626348
fuck off jovian nigger and watch out for watermelons
>>135625625
Build Fighters and ZZ are the most "fun" next to it.
>>135626019
Turn A EDs are fantastic.
>>135626252
>>135626255
thanks /a/nons. Will start working through these now.
>>135627049
Just try not to get put off by the size of it, it's pretty daunting.
>>135627049
Also don't watch movie compilations you fucking faggot
>>135624975
>>135624947
I found ZZ a lot more enjoyable that Victory. I've always been of the opinion that people just like it because "it's dark".
>>135615707
When I first watched Turn A, I couldn't help but get the feeling that people probably didn't like it as it was being released weekly. Like pretty much every other Gundam series, there seems to be this issue where It's never appreciated until you can watch it all in bulk.
>>135627161
>tripfag
>has shit opinions
nothing new to see here
>>135626382
Sounds like somebody got triggered
>>135627130
was already planning on avoiding them until I finished.
>>135627215
PAPTIMUS WATCH OUT
>>135627130
Movie compilations are worth watching for the new beautiful drawn scenes.
>>135625797
>all of that forced animationz
>>135627267
oh yeah bro i love me some cut character development for 10 more seconds of a zakus dying
>>135626223
I came here for the Men of Destiny all I got was Top Cuck
Though 0083 Rebellion is quite great
>>135627291
writing posts like this should be a bannable offense
>>135627194
What was good about Victory other than the Victory, V2 and Usso? Marbet maybe? Katajina is one of the worst characters in Gundam and goes through Nina levels of having her character and motivations constantly rewritten (or poorly written to where it makes no sense). Then you have characters that are introduced just to die. And the whole motorcycle battleships and the "fear the guillotine" was laughable at best. Somewhere after episode 30, when Usso's reunited with his mom, the show starts become pure comedy and not tragedy.
>>135627318
>Movie compilations are worth watching for the new beautiful drawn scenes
Reading comprehension?
It does not say skip out on the original TV broadcast.
>>135627161
>I found ZZ a lot more enjoyable that Victory
Didn't talk about more/less enjoyable, just the way production and contents went, ZZ is extremely dry in contents are once they left earth, production dropped severely. Victory has it's fair share of padding but it's easy to tell that Tomino put some damn effort into it. Look at all Tomino Gundam finales, ZZ is by far the cheapest and most uninspired.
>>135627161
>I've always been of the opinion that people just like it because "it's dark"
Victory is a paradox, while the thing is indeed grim, it's rather upbeat in tone most of the time.
>>135627354
>"fear the guillotine" was laughable at best
That's literally the best part of Victory though.
A guillotine is literally gravity killing spacenoids
you could write a paper on it
>>135627354
>hating motorcycle battleships
Shame on you.
>Somewhere after episode 30, when Usso's reunited with his mom, the show starts become pure comedy and not tragedy
Somewhere after episode 30, when Usso's reunited with his mom, the show starts to become pure padding.
>>135627426
>Look at all Tomino Gundam finales, ZZ is by far the cheapest and most uninspired
Yea, I can agree with that. The ending isn't the best, although I do love when Judau tells of Bright and the Feddies.
>ZZ is extremely dry in contents are once they left earth, production dropped severely
Isn't that around when they started working on CCA?
>>135619635
But Tomino was also responsible for Reconguista—
>>135627333
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l8zX6AGJeI
Men of Destiny is trully Gundam's the best opening
>>135627640
>Isn't that around when they started working on CCA?
It may very well be the case, from the moment the kids get in charge of the Nahel Argama they kept running into filler characters until the episode count was high enough to allow them to wrap things up by blowing Haman and her incompetent Neo Zeon.
>>135627653
Which was ridiculously better than IBO
>>135627653
I liked G-Reco.
>>135627783
>Reco
>better than anything
Hahaha
>>135627653
And even though G-Reco was rushed due to being 26 episodes, it's still better than Gundam "I'm 'bout to Oversleep".
>more than a decade later
>Zeta still has the best gundam face
Why is this allowed?
>>135628016
:< best face
>>135627974
Reco is solid aside from the middle which is an utterly rushed headache that even managed to bring filler in to make the great last act even more enjoyable.
>>135628016
Because people still have their souls weighed down by gravity
>>135628084
Agreed, and and least there was a plot that moved forward.
Let's take a moment and appreciate his superior taste.
>>135628183
>>135628016
>>135628456
Got done watching this last week. Shit is great, until that fucking ending.
>>135628183
The loli's character is utterly retarded and I fear what nonsense she's gonna serve later on.
>>135628456
>there are people who think Nina makes no sense and chose Gato over Carrot
At least everyone can understand that she's a bitch.
>>135628843
I think the idea is great but the execution is disastrous. 0083 is pretty much a big question mark had you not watched Zeta before it.
>>135628843
>until that fucking ending
Considering the shift of tone from the comfy 0079 to the cynical Zeta it's incredibly fitting actually.
>>135628913
I watched Zeta before, it had it's faults it was slowly getting worse towards the second half,after Lt. Burning dies imo,but that ending was like a total shift with dumb twists out of no where fucking it up.
>>135628952
I don't think so at all, this was such a shift it was completely out of nowhere. I don't know if you are quite getting what part of the show I was implying with my image.I'm mad about the romance subplot suddenly becoming the main with Nina suddenly choosing sides with her former fuccboi that is about to destroy earth.
It was completely out of character and such a stupid fucking decision. AND she has the nerve to come back to him.
>>135624975
F91 was shit because it was a movie instead of a full 50 episode series like it was supposed to be. Still one of the best EDs in any Gundam.
>>135629387
>I'm mad about the romance subplot suddenly becoming the main with Nina suddenly choosing sides with her former fuccboi that is about to destroy earth.
It was completely out of character and such a stupid fucking decision. AND she has the nerve to come back to him.
So you're one of those idiots who can only inderstand things at their most superficial level. You probably didn't get very far with Reco.
>>135629541
Looking deep into it it was still stupid. I understand why she did it but it was completely forced and rushed towards the end of the series and just dumb in general. It easily could have been written better.
Also don't tell me you are one of those people that try to defend the horrible pacing and execution of reco by implying 2deep4u?
>>135620799
At least WING has Just Communications.
>>135629696
It was drama for the sake of dramajust like IBObut it was in line with Nina's whole character : an hysterical, selfish bitch.
>Also don't tell me you are one of those people that try to defend the horrible pacing and execution of reco by implying 2deep4u?
I only defend its contents.
>>135629800
At least Wing has Treize.
>>135629541
>You probably didn't get very far with Reco.
Not that guy but can you twats buzz off with this ridiculous G-RECO SO FUCKING DEEP shit. The average ten year old would understand what the show was about.
It's as if some idiot got 8+2 wrong then for some reason, one believes he is the next Von Neumann because he got it right.
>>135629862
That too, fucking Treize was the best thing to come out of that.
>>135629832
She wasn't a hysterical selfish bitch until towards the end. That's what I'm complaining about, but the move she pulled on the last episode was even more outlandish than what she committed previously. Out of line imo.
>>135629876
>The average ten year old would understand what the show was about
I wish people twice that age would get it as well as them.
>>135629876
G-Reco wasn't deep, a lot of people just didn't understand what was going on because they didn't pay attention. It was really annoying reading threads about it when it was airing because of that.
>>135629895
I liked Wing it was a complete absurd show. I was laughing my ass off everywhere.
PLEASE COME TO MY PARTY
I AM GOING TO KILL YOU
and then he wipes off her tears
>>135629974
Well I noticed a lot of people missed out on Jamitov trolling the living shit out of everyone in Zeta.
Guess it's just this generation where people just can't sit and watch the damn movie without fucking around with their smartphones or laptops.
So there's that.
>>135630130
>and watch the damn medium
>>135630130
It's really fucking sad because I was really looking forward to watching an upbeat non-depressed Tomino Gundam with /a/ and then these faggots ruined it.
>>135628632
O'barry a shit
>>135627653
I didnt think it was that bad, I quite liked it in fact
>>135628084
i thought the opposite to be honest, for me it was the beginning and that final episode that felt rushed and that everything in between was fine.
>>135630130
its not my fault that no one wants to watch unengaging old trash just because you want people to shut themselves off from the world to watch this garbage
>>135630722
Why do you bother watching anything if you're not paying attention to it? If you're just watching for the background noise there's a lot of things that'd be better.
>>135630780
why would i watch this toy commercial garbage you fucking faggot
Got 0079 BDs can't wait for the Zeta ones.
>>135630849
Why are you then replying to a post which was not even directed to you . You intellectually bankrupted clown.
>>135629959
She wasn't reunited with Gato until then. That's one emotional baggage she couldn't get behind her because the guy just vanished.
>>135630722
I gotta say J.J Abrams really understands the modern audience.
>there are people on /a/ who have never seen 0079
>there are people on /a/ who have considered watching 0079 but wont because "it has bad animation"
>>135631146
I was honestly scared that 0079 would be hard to watch because of outdated animation. I checked the first episode to see and found that just the opening sequence to be remarkably directed. The show itself is incredibly fresh despite its age, much more than almost every modern show.
>>135631146
Muh salt.
>>135631415
>>135631532
>tumblr
Get out
Best Sunrise show the last 15 years
>>135631586
Sorry.
>>135631673
I like how the show is called Buddy Complex and is about 2 guys fusing their mechs if you know what I mean.
And it still manage to be the most heterosexual mecha anime ever
>>135631793
It's also about some guy with a rather severe complex
That Margaret though oh man
>>135628183
She can see it.
>>135629532
I've had fonder feeling about it on my latest rewatch. It's goddamn gorgeous for one and now that the 2nd Universal Century era kind of has content in the form of Crossbone and it's many sequels it doesn't feel as oddly isolated and as like that one skirmish that happened between the Zeon uprising and the Zanscare conflict.
>>135631673
CONNECT WITH DIO
>>135631415
There literally was no problem with this episode.The island one was plain awful on the other hand, Tomino agreed.
Man this thread has kind of reminded me yet again how the Gundam fanbase is possibly flat out the most negative fanbase in all of anime.
In before "it's because it's all shit!" and my preemptive reply of "well then don't watch it just to bitch you whiny dramatic fucks"
>all these fags not posting best boy
best pilot, best MC, best space jizz
>>135632109
It's a great fanbase because we don't blindly love every show just because of the name.
>>135632155
Amuro really shaped up in CCA
>>135631847
Sunrise TV shows outside of Gundam just seemed to vanish off the face of the Earth in 2015 after this and Cross Ange. To be honest I can't remember them doing a single TV series since Cross Ange back in Fall 2014 that wasn't Gundam. Like a solid year of absolutely nothing and now we get IBO for one of the biggest studios out there with 13 or so divisions. It's the strangest thing that happened in that whole write off year that was 2015 and believe me there's a lot of strange stuff.
>>135632155
>>135632216
so in cca when amuro makes Chan wait for some extended period of time, he was fappin to lalah's ghost right?
>>135632160
Anime definitely needs more discerning fans, but the exact polar opposite of constant full throttle 100% negativity and just shitting on everything gets as old as the types that unconditionally love everything from a certain franchise. You're no better than fanbases like Monogatari, Fate or Kyoani, just the opposite extreme.
>>135615707
I remember watching this when I was but a weeGrown man
>>135632393
>Rain
Literally Imagawa going full every day until you like it.
>>135632362
We don't hate it all though, just the shit ones.
>>135632543
And thats the fanbase problem. You fucks just unilaterally declare a series to be shit because its not Gundam enough or not Tomino enough for you. IBO is the perfect example for why the "fanbase" is just a toxic nerd center, and why Gundam belongs to a more open accepting fanbase who can recognize that every series has its merits. There are no "shit series" only shit opinions like yours.
>>135620732
>Relena is strong
>Relena got shit done
>gets kidnapped
>A bunch of gundams and mobile suits fight a war.
>Claims pacifism is the saviour of the future and the way to go
>sets earth up to get invaded by bad guys, without opposition
>Gundams have to fight again to save the day.
>still claims pacifism is the way to go
>says pacifism is only achieved if you fight for it.
Relena is negative useless cause she actually makes things worst.
How about a strong political gundam girls that takes charge, and leads a coalition to stop the space madmen from their mass genocidal and communist extremist tendacies
>>135632673
Try watching SEED Destiny or G-saviour and say that they're not shit.
>>135632393
I can't wait for Try S2 just for Domon. As awful as Try was, except for Tryon 2, the ending gave me a bit of hope for maybe something fun.
>>135632673
>You fucks just unilaterally declare a series to be shit
then why is every thread people arguing about if g-reco is shit or not?
>>135632109
>the Gundam fanbase is possibly flat out the most negative fanbase in all of anime
Just look at any Macross Delta thread since it's announcement. I like both Gundam and Macross, but seriously Macrossfags being upset there are idols in their Macross series is probably the stupidest thing ever. That's like complaining there's a Gundam in your Gundam series, at least Gundamfags complain about other stuff like directing or writing.
>Good Gundam
-0079
-Zeta
-Turn A
-X
-War in the Pocket
-Stardust Memories
-Build Fighters
>Bad Gundam
-Everything Else
>>135626223
>I wish we could get a full F91 series and a more adult Crossbone-inspired sequel
This, this so very much. F91 deserves something better than what Crossbone delivered.
>>135632673
Here's the problem: most of the Gundam series from the past 15 years have been pale imitations of the Gundam series that came before them. It feels stale and boring that Gundam is reduced to checking boxes for both plot, characters and devices.
It's a strange irony that something set during The One Year War feels so much more fresh than anything else we've seen recently.
>>135629976
JAST WILD BEAT CAMMUNICATION nanimo yuzuranaide
>>135633100
>Stardust Memories
Animation doesn't salvage that piece of shit
>>135615707
Recently /a/ has become /m/ and /m/ has become /tv/, i don't even know what board i'm on anymore
>>135633415
Watch it then read Rebellion 0083 thats what I say
>>135633427
It's easy to tell /a/ and /m/ apart: /a/ has moderation.