Why are angels always the bad guys in anime and manga
and devils most of the time are the good guys
Why Japan?
Well, in official lore the angels are always good and demons are bad. So they want to subvert that.
>>135115391
Because Nips subconsciously associate angels with the ideological west, which was terrible for them. Nippon stronk.
>>135115391
Are there even anime or manga that has actual angels and devils besides P&S?
>>135115751
Hataraku Faggot-sama
>>135115391
Angels are killing machines used for the purpose of genocide in the official lore. Then there was also that whole thing called the Dark ages.
>>135115751
devilman maybey
>>135115751
actual angels and devils in the sense that they're soldiers of heaven/hell?
Rage of Bahamut
>>135115751
Princess Lucia by fucking Seo
My Balls too right?
is there an equivalent to angels in Japanese mythology?
>>135115391
Have you read Paradise Lost? Satan was literally the protagonist.
>>135116281
I'll read that on Christmas Day
Thanks
>>135115391
Probably because Japan likes the underdog who fights against the impossible or dies trying. Demons in the context of Christianity are Angels rebelling against their master. That appeals to them because they don't have the negative stigma of a devil as absolute evil because their mythology was all about nature and shit instead of pure good/evil dichotomy.
>>135115391
Because they think they're clever by reversing the roles.
>>135115391
That's some horrendous ESL translation going on there.
>>135116281
protagonist != good guy
>>135115391
The Japanese know shit all about actual Christen myth, the only franchise I know that actually does it with a good understanding is Shin Megami Tensei. And even then there are some creative licenses taken.
That said it's not like Angels are actually the good guys. Their motto was "Fear Not" for a reason, cause whenever they showed up people either died or went insane from fear. Winged humanoids they are not who spread hope and love they are not.
Morality tends to be humans = good (with the possibility to be tempted to evil), Demons = evil (but they can be reasoned with to an extent), and Angels = neutral (Dispensers of God's will, they don't give a shit about anything other than what God tells them to do).
As for why the Japanese portray demon's as the good guys. Well to them demons don't necessarily equal evil, especially considering what they nicknamed the first unifier of their nation. They probably just really dig the whole "dark is not evil" trope since people have gotten really tired of classic heroes lately. Doesn't make it any less silly though.
>>135116004
Soldiers of heaven and hell could be literally anything depending on the setting which is mostly the case. I meant as in traditional biblical context.
>>135116591
That depends on perspective.
>>135116638
Holy fuck, I never even considered that this was a thing.
>>135116603
>/thread, nothing more to be said unless you're looking for examples that'd prove you wrong or some shit.
>>135116780
No.
>>135116762
Soldiers of heaven and hell IS the biblical context.
I guess saying agents of heaven and hell would be more accurate since the forces of hell don't actually take to arms like heaven does.
>>135115391
>Why are angels always the bad guys in anime and manga
When is the last time an Angel did ANYTHING good, in the Bible?
99% of the time when an Angel appear, genocide happens. Basically the entire popular portrayal of doved winged pleasant humans was Greek Mythology imagery that was borrowed and inserted into Christianity. Check the lore.
Basically, because the Japanese story writers actually READ the Bible, they ended up portraying Angels correctly. Because if a Biblical angel was to appear, the proper response is to scream and run as far away as possible.
East Asians see middle eastern religions as very rigid and extreme.
One chinese scholar who met christian sailors said they worship an arrogant cosmic horror who demands absurd punishment to those who don't obey his countless and petty laws
>>135116848
>punishing bad people is bad
>>135116883
>punishing people who i don't like is bad
ftfy
>>135115391
What if a bunch of green colored people came to your land and brought their religion and wanted to teach it to you?
>>135115751
Lazy King.
>>135116848
this. Even people who go to church in the U.S. don't read the bible themselves but have some shit priest do it for them.
The first thing angels say when they reveal themselves is "fear not"
That means something
>>135116603
SMT really is a pretty good representation in a way even with their creative licenses and Kaneko's love of putting a dick secretly into everything.
>implying secretly
YHVH is a massive asshole, just like in the old testament and everything that isn't an angel is a false god/demon. Sounds about right.
Also,
>They probably just really dig the whole "dark is not evil" trope since people have gotten really tired of classic heroes lately
This is Go Nagai's lasting influence on the industry. Devilman and Mazinger really popularized the idea that you are what you are and not necessarily your powers. Mazinger can become a God or a Devil.
Not always.
>>135116780
From what I remember Satan feels he can run things i Heaven better than God but his rebellion fails and he gets kicked out of heaven. So, butthurt, he tries to create his own heaven (With Blackjack and hookers) in the underworld, but its just a cheap knockoff of God's. So he goes to Adam and Eve in the garden to ruin them as final jab at God and even that turns out to have been part of Gods plan. And through the whole thing he comes off as jealous and self pitying.
It's been like a decade since I read it though.
>>135117272
i thought it was more along the lines of this
>God makes humans
>likes human the best
>Satan is like "The fuck? These humans are pathetic."
>God says fuck off
>Satan fucks over humanity
>God banishes him
>Satan opens up a hangout center for delinquent angels aka hell
>>135115391
They tend to like doing angels falling for devils too. I hate that shit they're mortal enemies. The holy powers do not cohort with evil
>>135117408
>The holy powers do not cohort with evil
>He's never heard of fallen angels
>>135117361
Satan is kicked out before God create Humans from what I remember. Why he went after Adam and Eve is because he was pissed off that Humans were given control of the world God had created.
>>135117408
Except literally every single devil is a fallen angel. They're made of the same stuff.
>>135117361
>God makes angels
>God makes humans
>Angels fall in love with human
>God banish those angels to Hell
>Some angels rebel against God
>They become ruler of Hell
Angels are seen as extremist. Devils are seen as more Human.
>>135115391
There's maybe a few subversions of the already subversion
Disgaea I guess?
>>135117497
In Paradise lost hell didn't exist until Satan created it after he lost his war and was banished. Like anon said it was a mimicry of heaven and as the other anon said it was a place for his fellow fallen angels and monsters to hang out since they were all now homeless.
Angels only killed the trash of society. Which isn't a bad thing since it controls population so you don't become too overcrowded which you have now in the modern world.
Because... just imagine if the world was controlled by ISIS or blacks or mexicans or jews.
>>135115391
The real reason is actually quite simple. To the Japanese, western religions are hilariously interesting. It's kind of like being on the outside and looking at someone else's badass religion that involves wars about demons and angels.
I mean, just look at how many people (especially the Japanese) view the Hindu religion. Just doing a quick search of the Hindu gods gives us a history of SPACE ALIEN GODS WITH AIRSHIPS IN CONSTANT WAR. Of course, the Japanese would parody that shit, and the same goes with Christian religions.
In most Shinto and Buddhist teachings, there aren't very many DIRECT enemies like the Devil and his army of demons. Hell, Catholics have texts detailing the size of a demon general's army. All that shit plays into this mythological fantasy world that the Japanese are absolutely in love with.
Plus, western cultures and religions tend to have power centered around one individual (aka God) versus eastern cultures where community tends to be valued above the individual. To the Japanese, this can translate to an 'absolute power,' which can translate to a totalitarian figurehead, which in turn can mean a 'bad guy.'
>>135117361
>>135117497
Something people never get, Satan isn't ruler of hell, he's chained down there along with everyone else basically.
Hell sucks for everyone, including Satan. He was cast down there, in the end. God made hell for the fallen angels though, not for humans. Humans going in there wasn't really part of the plan nor does he throw them in there, but if they don't follow him then they tend to fall there as they're condemned by their own choices.
Although the time for Satan to be cast down isn't right now, so he's allowed to go anywhere for now and do things, he's free for now. The time when he's cast down is the end of days after all.
You even have him visiting heaven during the story of Job once. As Satan says there's nothing good about humans, god says "Well my servant Job is great", so Satan is all "Well if I caused his luck to sour he'd surely curse you, and you'd see he's not great", and god was like "Just don't kill him, but you're wrong anyway"
Perhaps that entire story was just a long gambit by God to only increase Job's faith even more, as he went through some shit and only came out stronger, and more rewarded in the end.
Life is just life, the entire idea about heaven is that the things that happen after your life make the time you spend on Earth look like less than a second or a joke in comparison. You need to be tested on Earth, because this is nothing but a test in the end, to see if you can hone your spirit/faith/love enough to be considered worthy.
God isn't a sky wizard meant to make you happy all the time; the Bible can tell you that whenever. God is meant to be seen as a father, like Hank Hill. He doesn't hate humans ever, but he doesn't like the things they do at times, so he tries to steer them away. He doesn't always do what you enjoy or want, rather he does what he knows is right, and what will hopefully straighten you out.
That's supposed to be the general idea anyway
>>135117272
Basically. It's drawing upon the narrative devices of tragedy where the protagonist manufactures their own undoing do to a glaring character flaw (Satan's pride, in this case). He thinks he can do things better and gets btfo, then sits in hell for a while with his allies while they all lament that they got screwed over. There's some really amusing criticism bundled up in it, like demons complaining that they had no way of knowing how badly they would get wrecked because God had never shown them that It was omnipotent before then. They end up basically blaming everything bad that happened to them as a consequence of their rebellion on God.
Outside of the obvious pro-catholic "don't fuck with God" moral, there's definitely a lot of placative irony in the story. Satan doesn't actually make it out too bad for somebody that gets sent to Hell and the dangling implication of actual Fall of Man is that we ultimately have more in common with him than with God.
>>135117694
We were talking about how it happens in Paradise lost, not the bible.
>>135117694
The Job thing is ever the source of conflicting Canonization by Bible interpretations, since the earliest historical versions still in existence never actually mentions the devil or satan by name and instead by a title, a title that actually crops up a lot in the earlier versions of the Torah and Old Testament and which scholars speculate may have become the origin of the satan myth.
Job's one of those stories that's been subject to lots of christian bastardization, though - like making up their own ending because they didn't like the original one and completely ruining the moral of the story in the process.
I would love to see an anime/manga take on the Marriage of Heaven and Hell.
>>135117490
Since the bible says that some demons actually have offsprings, I usually see things this way. The original fallen angels are the top demons since they are their progenitors and even while corrupted they may still have some "divine" nature in them, meanwhile their kids are beings born from their corruption and negative aspects, lacking any divine origin and only acting to create or spread the same negative aspects they represents.
If you want to represent them, a demon would be the typical horned and bat-winged creature, meanwhile the fallen angel is the dove winged being but dirty and with signs of "evil" in them (black eyes, black veins, somekind of sickness etc)sorry for bad english
>>135117694
>God isn't a sky wizard meant to make you happy all the time;
Well you can say that all you want, but it is pretty clear your view is the minority. Christianity managed to last this long by deliberately hiding the nature of their own deity. If everyone actually know what the Christian god is suppose to act like in canon, there would be far less Christians.
Is it weird that the manga that gets Christianity the closest is Saint Young Men, yet it still isn't that right?
I mean I can give the oddities a pass there since its a comedy, but at least it seems to have researched the subject more than others.
>>135115391
I hear that in a lot of eastern mythology being a demon doesn't automatically make you evil. In china demons are just dudes doing their job. Which just happens to involve being a monster that tortures evil people.
Thus turned to be an intellectual discussion of heaven and hell on 4chan. Now I have a little more faith in /a/.
![Maris_Stella_of_Doomsday_03_p106_[AK].png](https://i.imgur.com/c0luXhY.png "Maris_Stella_of_Doomsday_03_p106_[AK].png")
>Angels
>>135117922
Not really. You can be an "expert" on a foreign country, but you're still going to have a shitty understanding because it is a foreign element. Same shit with religious faith. If you're outside of it, you're going to get some things wrong.
>>135117936
>He wasn't around for the Maria the Virgin witch threads
Well, if you look at japanese folklore, the closest they have to "demons" are yokai, and yokais aren't exactly evil. Some of them are evil, some are mischievious, some are nice, etc.
>Yōkai range eclectically from the malevolent to the mischievous, or occasionally bring good fortune to those who encounter them.
And if you look into eastern mythology, you get stuff where even those born as demons/spirits can ascend into heaven and become a deity by doing good shit. Look at Sun Wukong, who started as a goddamn monkey born from a rock.
>Fuck up heaven and generally be a nuisance there
>Punished and later tasked to escort this monk to India
>Ascend to heaven as a deity after the end of the journey
>>135117999
Most of the discussions nowadays are filled with moeshit and pseudo intelligent comments that have no intellectual context here. 90% of /a/ are dumb without good criticism.
>>135116603
This. Go Nagai is the only mangaka which actually knew about Christian stuff and that only because he read The Inferno of Dante.
>>135117488
Wasn't Satan's reason for rebelling against God because God told him of his plan of creating humanity and give them everthing, Satan didn't like the idea of angels having to servers creatures that were inferiors and even could defy God (free will) and decide that he had to stop God, after the rebellion the remaining angels give their free will away to avoid more traitors in future and that's why they usually are the mindless drones of God?
He hating us it could be seen as some kind of jealousy for being the favorites of God?
>>135118065
In fairness Sun Wukong was always badass. He kicked the shit out of all the gods and the planets. Buddha had to stop him in the end.
>>135117916
Nah, that seems stupid.
I go to different churches all the time, and they aren't hiding anything, but they do give it context and meaning rather than the people who just take things out of context and go "See, evil" which just feels like shitposting at times as if all they know of god is SMT.
Last few churches I've gone to they directly said this type of sermon; about how God isn't just there to make you happy, and that's not what he's trying to do really. He cares about your spirituality and you growing stronger, rather than just handing you things. He will bless you, but even with his favorite people, he put them through some real shit repeatedly to make them stronger.
Even when god incarnated upon Earth, God himself went through basically all the shit and pain without looking away, in order to show that a mortal could live an upright and pious life for others, and that you could live without sin. The entire point of Jesus is basically him showing people the way through example, and showing how a man can and should live, rather than just being down on yourself saying "Well I can't help it".
When that one guy visited heaven in the Bible and said he was too dirty to even speak before then, god didn't judge him, god already knew all of that shit, rather god just clensend him of his sin using magic fire, and sent him on his way to spread the word.
God isn't out there to judge you or to make you happy; he's there to show you the light/way, and have you grow stronger in his name so that you are more than human. You will have to go through some shit to go there, rather than wallowing in the dirt and sin like you want, it isn't anything easy or happy for sure.
Its meant to be worth it though.
>>135118086
Is devil man any good? I'm in a dry spell and with all the free time I have I am just blasting through whatever manga I read.
>>135118065
Eastern religions tend to have more in common with western classical polytheism than with the abrahamic religions.
>>135118099
Why didnt Satan just tell God to create life in Mars and compete with each other
I wish there's life outside of earth
>>135118150
Continuing on this point a bit, with something entirely unrelated basically
I'd say Moral Orel got Christiantiy pretty right in some ways; there are always going to be shitty people that misinterpret the gospel in their own ways, or just use it to judge when that's not what they were sent to do, they'll use it for their own benefit or interpret it to fit their own ideals basically, so they can justify whatever.
That can't be helped perhaps, people have always done that. They even have an episode about how everything god does isn't "good", but it is "right".
Orel is someone who uses religion in the right way in the end, a demonstration of how it can work.
>>135118166
I consider it to be great but it's kinda hard for someone new t9 manga to get in it because of the artstyle which is silly considering how depressing, violent and scary the world of the manga is.
>>135118083
>moeshit and pseudo intelligent comments
I know right? everthing is waifu, best girl and lolis, any attemp of talking about the plot is derailed to moeshit and the people ask why shit series manage to become great hits and the ones with a actual good story always flop..
>>135118187
>life in Mars
>>135118150
God really mellowed out in the new testament. In the old one he was sending flocks of bears to eat children and thunder bolting rival priests.
>>135118187
Statistically there probably is.
>>135118246
My favourite part of the new testament's Job is where God has all of Job's children murdered and then just gives him some new ones afterward.
What a great guy.
>>135118139
And he still became a deity in the end despite all the shit he did.
>Mess up heaven
>Steal and eat their immortality peaches
>Buddha steps in
>he pisses on Buddha's hand
>>135118099
I'm not sure, like I said I read it a while ago and my memory is fuzzy at parts. From what I remember Satan (And some other Angels) were getting sick of serving God and his son, who they began to see as arrogant and self serving, and felt that they could do a better job ruling over Heaven in their place. So the war starts, lasts a few days, and the son of god basically wipes the floor with them as it turns out their power is nothing compared to his and God knew they would rebel all along as well as the outcome.
>>135118150
>God isn't out there to judge you or to make you happy; he's there to show you the light/way, and have you grow stronger in his name so that you are more than human. You will have to go through some shit to go there, rather than wallowing in the dirt and sin like you want, it isn't anything easy or happy for sure.
That's your interpretation, but if you say this then you wouldn't be able top convert anyone to Christianity. Christianity couldn't survive this way, the preaching just wouldn't be effective. You need to trick people into thinking they need to join.
>>135118294
Back in the day he probably would have turned him into salt for good measure.
>>135118187
What if despise being here after some millenia, the plan is us becoming the "precusors" to any intelligent life in the universe? earth being the place where everthing started, someday, either by technology or archiving somekind of ascension, we start going planet from planet seeding life, and taking care of it, like God did with us.
>>135118316
Christianity still promises an eternal afterlife in the kingdom of God to the faithful and brimstone for everyone else.
>>135118301
They did bring him there to be a stable boy or some shit at first. After he ate all those peaches there wasnt really much they could do to stop him.
>>135118166
Pretend you're an edgy teenager while reading it.
>>135117805
In most of the ones who at least try to translate it as it should and not as King James wanted Satan is more or less called the enemy/other, he never had a name, he was just a function/agent of the will of god to test mortals
>>135118294
Well seeing how everthing was a "test" you could say that at least the first childrens are now in heaven for their "service" to his will.
>>135118347
Technically they say if you are a good person who hasn't heard of god you are fine.
>>135118316
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't bullshit people whenever he preached about this stuff.
Pharisees tried to get him to judge an adulterer, and he uses a parable to turn them all away rather than judging shit like they wanted. He has not sinned, cast the first stone. None of them had the right to judge another, nor is that what they should be doing right now.
Yet he also had sermons all the time about this is some shit you're about to go through if you follow me, but what's waiting for you is far greater than this life.
Pretty sure all of the apostles generally died in a gruesome way.
John the Baptist was a pretty good guy; lived in the woods eating locusts, and just preached all day to those who would listen. Just in general a lot of the figures in the Bible were pretty cool though, like David.
>>135118399
so your point?
>>135118399
See, that's the thing. Once they've told you about it it's too late.
>>135118435
Not everyone else is going to hell.
>>135118209
I liked how that series ended. Moral learns to see just how terrible the people around him really are, and that his role models aren't perfect and don't always know better, and he learns to think for himself and have his own interpretation of the bible and Christianity rather than relying solely on other people's.
>>135118399
That's not what the Bible says, which is generally why the Bible tells you to spread the word as hard as you can.
I mean don't kill people for it, or torture them, that's not what Jesus said to do, but you still need to do this as though you're saving peoples lives.
You are the ones that know the truth, its your job to not hide your light, and try to save others as well. Don't do that shit like the crusades, that's stupid, Jesus didn't do that, but you do need to be desperate as though their lives are yours to save.
Jesus was preaching no matter where he had to do it, even if they were going to kick him out, but he wasn't beating people if they didn't listen closely enough. You have to be a pacifist, you aren't there to judge others, but you still need to be willful.
>>135116004
>>Rage of Bahamut
is this good? should i watch it?
>>135117361
That was never Satan. That was Azazel. Satan in the Bible is God's prosecutor.
>>135118467
The only one not going to eternal hell is newly born baby that die.
>>135118347
>brimstone for everyone else.
>Only having brimstone
>Not having 18 floors worth of torture that they simplified from the original 134 floors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyu
>>135118399
In today's world there are people who haven't heard of god? I mean even warriors in the amazon probably have iphones these days, given to them by missionaries
>>135118230
Plot discussions can be tricky. Does the series have anything actually worth discussing? Why?
If it's good but not contentious, then the only real discussion you can get going is people agreeing with one another over basic plot comprehension -which isn't interesting at all- or flexing their undergraduate arts degree and posting armchair thematic analysis that sound suspiciously like pseudointellectual blogs.
This kind of discussion can happen because it's a small thread at 1AM EST, but as nice as this is, it's not /a/ related. If we could have this kind of discussion about anime or manga, that would be wonderful, but it requires that there's a series good enough to garner interest and contentious/unpredictable/ambiguous enough for people to form strong opinions and interpretations contrary to one another, but still concrete enough for there to be hope that the 'discussion' will one day bear some kind of fruit and not just run in circles chasing tails over things that are entirely subjective or inferential.
How often do shows like that come around? We're lucky to get one a year, if that. It's not like you can just manufacture good discussion about a seasonal magical highschool battleharem LN adaptation - the subject matter has to actually give you something worth discussion.
>>135118504
I thought it was pretty good.
>>135116788
hitler considered japs as only 1 level under the aryans - on par with nordic europeans like the french and brittish. they were "honorary aryans"
>>135118316
This is... what exactly are we praying for? What do we really want? Human being convert to Christianity out of fear of hell and we are willing to drag others to hell to save our skins as humans. To interpret the bible like this questions the very morals like a mass murderer who believes in Jesus going to heaven and a non believer who is good all his life with nothing wrong going to hell. What is fair in the bible? I pondered on what we call faith and pure injustice. What do we call what is evil and hypocritical? In the end...are we not all hypocrites?
>>135118504
it's alright, i enjoyed the characters more than anything else but it had good action as well i think
>>135118542
They probably weren't listening to what the priests were saying. Lord knows I wouldn't if I had to live in the fucking jungle.
>>135118399
>echnically they say if you are a good person who hasn't heard of god you are fine.
They say that as long as you are a good person and doing well by others then you are already following God's will. Having heard of god or not doesn't factor into it. Your belief is expressed though your actions.
>>135118579
Nigger god isn't fair. He turns bitches into salt for looking back at their home as they flee. God will fuck you up.
>>135118495
>Moral
Orel*
>>135118656
We don't like to talk about Sodom.
>>135118579
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. A village that uses shamans and has no knowledge of modern medicine would greatly benefit from today's modern medicine, no? In the same way I think the point off Christianity (untainted Christianity, at least) is to show people the light, give them what they've been missing.
>>135116879
>One chinese scholar
>countless and petty laws
A chink said that? How about those stupid their emperors and warlords put on their people just to kill ten of thousands as they pleased?
>>135118560
>>135118597
but is it shitty generic "little girls with magic powers" or "gamma male with magic powers"?
>/a/ - biblical stories and interpretations
>>135116934
>It's my fault for disliking bad people
>>135118675
You know who God has watching his seat? Fuckers on fire so hot they need to cover it with six wings so you dont fucking die from looking at him. Six wings nigga!
>>135117262
Source?
>>135118716
Thief gets roped into helping demon girl. Gets chased by disgraced knight. Main character wouldn't be described as beta I think.
>>135118729
jerking off is considered a sin in God's eyes
big part of the city could've just been lonely on a friday night or some shit
>>135118741
And then there's that one badass fucker with the sword made of fire that guards the way back into Eden. Shit's fucking made of fire, just for us too. That shit's how bad we fucked up. Like damn.
>>135118656
God is entirely fair, in the sense that "I do exactly as I say" .You see that meaning in the passage where he turns someone into salt, and the thing with the bears eating kids. He did both of those things, because he had given a warning that he'd do exactly those things, so don't do this thing or else it will happen.
That's nothing but fair in a sense; he told you this shit is going to happen, don't do it. He told you not to eat from the tree, don't do it, or else consequences.
God is fair like the world is fair; like if you touch fire, your hand is going to get burned, but the fire is warning you this is a bad idea beforehand, and its only living up to its word. I mean fair in the sense that actions have consequences, and you can't talk your way out of fire burning you as long as you touched it. If it was said to happen, its going to happen, basically. God's entire thing is that he always must live up to his word, no matter what he said, he has to make it happen if he said it. If God is perfect, then there can be no falsehood, he has to make each word a reality.
I've heard one guy explain the bear thing in full context before; it made some sense when it was fully explained out, but I doubt I can remember it. Lot of Bible stuff is all about context in a weird way. Also there's a lot of parables that only made sense within the context of the times.
>>135118716
It's something right out of a tabletop RPG campaign. Dashing rogue/dickass thief scores a job escorting an undercover demon that's pivotal to some war between heaven and hell, all while fleeing his rival: a disgraced dandy knight-turned mercenary. Meanwhile, elsewhere, an ancient evil awakens.
It's set in some fantasy'd up rendition of medieval spain. Give it a shot, you'll love it.
>>135118741
>>135118811
>these posts
>>135118616
> but still you're not fine at all
>>135118504
By far the best relatively-traditional-western-fantasy anime out there, so if that's what you're looking for, then yes, absolutely.
Objectively though the beginning is awesome, a lot of people expected it to be AOTY when it started airing. Latter half or so kinda becomes much blander, but never bad or unbearable. Overall solid 7/10.
Still so, so much better than anyone could have expected from an anime adaptation of a korean MMO TGC cash-grab.
>>135118967
I wish more koreans would make cash grab animes, they are pretty good at it.
>>135115391
Because japan (or at least the japanese people involved in the anime industry) are a bunch of edgelords that think darkness and shadows and fire and blood and evil and everything associated with demons are cool.
>>135115391
Japs love to think they're being 'special' by doing the opposite of what is the norm. It's why most of their shit ends up being terrible because 90% of writers are actually fucking hacks with no talent, but while Hollywood has groomed their hacks to stick to a winning formula, Japs saw Hollywood and wanted to do the exact opposite, falling into a formula themselves but a fucking terrible flawed formula.
![[Commie] Koufuku Graffiti - 09 [F48A2401].mkv_snapshot_18.16_[2015.03.10_19.43.57].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/z5w1G86.jpg "[Commie] Koufuku Graffiti - 09 [F48A2401].mkv_snapshot_18.16_[2015.03.10_19.43.57].jpg")
>>135119088
>hollywood
>winning formula
How's that kylo ren working for ya, /tv/?
>>135118790
>>135118898
alright, you won me over
thanks lads
>>135119114
Hollywood sells very well, so it's a winning formula.
>>135119114
>kylo renimplying Kylo Ren isn't Anakin 2.0 done right
>>135119114
There's a reason everyone in the world knows and has seen tons of american movies but very few movies from other countries besides their own.
>>135118430
>I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't bullshit people whenever he preached about this stuff.
And if that's all is being preached, then Christianity would be a perfectly benign and peaceful little cult that never hurt anybody.
But you and me both know that isn't the Christianity of 99% of all Christians. And if that isn't what people actually believe, then it doesn't count. Because a religious belief that isn't believed, then doesn't really exist.
>>135119114
Making more money than any of us are likely to see in a lifetime?
>>135118316
False. Christianity is declining in modern times precisely because the Church has taken the path of trying to "trick" people into joining as you suggest, softening itself up and inviting disdain when it should be lighting spiritual fires, inspiring people with the heroism inherent to the uphill battle of spiritual growth.
>>135119114
Selling a shitload at the box office and who's role in the film was surprisingly well done.
>>135119114
A completely believeable and understandable villain who is actually sympathetic if you think for a minute, and realize he's got his own agenda whilebeing scared shitless of a fucking huge dude with enough power to make him have fear-induced tantrums every time he fails because he's terrified of what will happen, and manages to be pretty fucking impressive in the latter half despite how awful the scene's executed.
>>135119114
He's going to die and get redeemed in episode 9. Normies will cry, Star Wars fans will love it, 4chan will bitch about how its the exact same shit as Darth Vader but will ultimately begrudgingly agree it was satisfying.
Meanwhile Japan will continue to pump out mangas where the guy and the girl don't hook up at the end but instead have some twisted bullshit reason for why they don't get together, ultimately only being noticed on 4chan for popping up in random threads for everyone to say "Oh man I loved it but that ending was so shit what the fuck".
Face it, Hollywood is a hack, but it's a hack that leaves normies satisfied and paying. Meanwhile anime is floundering because most anime/manga writers are hacks who think they can actually write.
>>135118761
KAgerou project.
>>135119179
Your preacher or whoever you imagine might mislead you in one direction or another, but the Bible won't lie or sugarcoat about the message its giving people.
If you say you're a Christian but you put no effort into it or don't read a Bible, then you're probably jut a Christian in name. If you say you're a Christian, but don't follow the word, then you're just it in name. I think that's also warned about more than a few times in the Bible.
Yeah, in order to be a Christian, you can't just go with what people tell you about a sugar coated fantasy, you need to read on your own and grow on your own as well. I think there's a parable about that as well about a teacher who gave three students five coins each. Two students took that money and made it into more money, and the third student just buried it in the ground, only to dig it up later and give it back to the teacher when he asked for it back.
The teacher was glad for the two students who took what faith they were given, and only increased it without being told. However he felt some shame with the third student. who took what faith he was given, and did nothing with it, nor did he increase it, rather he simply sat on it.
That's kind of a warning for what god expects out of people; you are given faith and chances, you need to turn that into even more than you were given, rather than just sitting on it and thinking its enough.
You do need to be constantly growing.
Kami or Akuma /a/?
>>135119215
This; if going all out and lighting fires in people didn't work, the religion never would have taken off the ground in the first place.
The path isn't "Well it never would have worked if people didn't try to trick others", rather "It stopped working because you started trying to be sneaky with it".
Go all out, don't hide, don't trick, just cry all out with the word.
>>135119393
I don't like having my coffee stirred
>>135115391
>Why are angels always the bad guys in anime and manga
well think about it, angels are about purity and being god's servant
humanity isn't pure, one could even argue that not killing us would be evil
>>135119369
>Yeah, in order to be a Christian, you can't just go with what people tell you about a sugar coated fantasy,
Easy for you to say. But from my perspective the sugarcoat fantasy is deliberate, use to trick and defraud. Christianity is DEPENDENT on this sugrcoat fantasy to EXIST, without it the number of recruits would vanish.
The "Sugarcoated Fantasy" IS what Christainty survive on. Theological discussions are all well and good, but you aren't going to maintain followers and donations that way. You need to trick and lie to make people go to Church on Sundays. And discussions on faith is irrelent when the Church itself depend on the lies to survive. That's why no one ever wants to talk about the well known fact that Christmas Day has nothing to do with Jesus. It's too important for little things like "truth" and honesty" to get in the way.
>>135119331
I actually saw him asbeing understandable, but unsympathetic. He's that edgy teenager who fucked up, and everyone around him knows he's fucked up, but he's too stupid to understand just exactly how he's fucked up or how badly and keeps fucking up as a result. He's not meant to be sympathetic, he's meant to be pathetic, a cheap knockoff of who he thinks Vader was and everyone knows it which is why no one respects him.
>>135119482
From my experience that sugar coated version is mostly told at Sunday school to kids. In the actual church it's not sugar coated.
>>135115391
>Why are angels always the bad guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZRo8Z1Ser8
This angels are the good girls.
>>135119482
I'd say this is fairly false; it wasn't based on the fairy tale, it was based on the truth of the word originally without sugarcoating.
Only along the way did it try to keep up with the times, and when it tried to do this it started declining. The fantasy is what's killing it, not what's helping it. People would still be there without the fantasy; some would leave, but some would come in turn. Christianity wasn't meant to try to keep up with the times and alter its message to fit the modern day each time the morals of the age change.
People are more attracted to someone who lays it all out and doesn't bullshit, rather than someone who's always bullshitting.
>>135118719
What do you expect from a Christian imageboard?
>>135119492"I'm going to finish what you started" wasn't him going GAS THE JEDI GALACTIC WAR NAO, it's an allusion to the fact that he's going to try to betray Snoke and put an end to the nightmare personally, just like Vader did.
I mean shit, anon,he outright tells Han he's doing something completely insane, and if he tries to break out and join them, he will be torn the fuck apart by Snoke. He even tries to getRey to join him, just like Vader did with Luke, with the full intention of overthrowing and destroying Palpatine to bring balance.
How many fucking allusions does it seriously take before you realize what's going on? I mean, it's hamfisted as fuck, don't get me wrong, but it's totally believeable and sympathetic thata teenager who has some level of skill hopes to get closer and closer to the one guy who is able to make the galaxy to topsy-turvy like Palpatine and remove him since Luke was a bitch
>>135118811
Based guardian
>>135118741
>6 wings
What passage I forgot
>>135115391
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DheBb4Kfopk
Read Yondemasu yo, Azael-san.
Angle Sanctuary had good and bad guys on both sides.
>>135119581
We've come full circle.
>>135119684
The world has come full circle on the outside, so 4chan came full circle on the inside.
4chan always has to be contrarian in a sense after all.
>>135118246
It all makes sense when you think about it in context though.
Think about when the Jews go to take the promised land.
They can't just stroll into a fertile paradise and setup shop because it had already been populated by that time.
Likewise, they aren't allowed to mingle with any residents there because it would turn them from God and end up doing harm to God's plan (which happened at least 5 times anyway), so the only option left is what they were commanded to do, kill everyone.
If you read that out of context and without putting thought into it, genocide of an entire civilization will always register as an incredibly violent and evil thing, but it at least makes sense if you consider how else an entire civilization is supposed to take complete control over an area to make a place for God's word.
This guy explains it really well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A65Wfr2is0
>>135119588I don't think modern Hollywood is smart enough for that angle. I think it's going to be the generic he was corrupted by Snoke like Vader before him, and sees the empire as something that was needed and the current order of things as something that upset the balance. It why he keeps doing that mantra about not being corrupted by the light. It's going for the whole idea of extremes being bad, and the old order of Jedi were throwing off the balance with Vader as the hero who overthrew them in the story Snoke spins to him. He'll come back stronger and more competent, before having a sudden realization and turning on Snoke at the end in an act of redemption.
>>135119740
Is hiroyuki christian?
>>135119748
>which happened at least 5 times anyway
Which are paradoxically also part of Gods plan as God is Omniscient.
>>135116370
good luck
>>135119631
The ED is comfy
>>135119748
Also, if you go further back, they wouldn't have needed to do that genocide if they had followed instructions in the first place. Their disobedience led to them being stuck in the desert for 40 years iirc.
>>135119798
God may know that shit will go wrong, but he'll still do it exactly as he was going to do it, because it wasn't wrong. By which I mean his words weren't wrong, even if it went strangely. Just because it didn't work out that time doesn't mean he did it wrong, he just has to work with it. Its what happens when he gave humans free will; he tells them to do the right thing, they don't do it, but it can't be helped, yet that's fine. God ain't going to change trying to do it right just because results are mixed.
God knew humanity would eat from the tree of knowledge; he didn't want them to, he knew they'd do it anyway, it wasn't part of his plan but he knew it would happen, he didn't stop it because that's what free will means basically.
He's gotta let it happen as it will, and just deal with it from there, instead of looking into the future and stopping it, because it won't work like that.
I mean like, God may know things will happen, but its not necessarily part of his plan perhaps or good, but he does still know the final result, and he knows that everything to happen to reach that final goal will fall into place.
Even if god knows a sinner is destined for hell, he still tries to save them and help them, even if he knows that it won't work out. Its not in the plan, he can't save them, but still tries.
God knows how it will all turn out, his plan will never be broken or change, but that doesn't mean everything that happens is necessarily part of the plan perhaps. Humans may turn against him on occasion, that's not something he wants or needs, it still has to happen, but he still reaches out to them.
>>135115391
cause devils are more effay tbhfam
>>135119970
>he can't save them
God owns the hell how can it be he cannot save them?
Should I read more of the Bible?
It feels like it will take too long to read.
I like the change of roles like that. You especially see that in a lot of older RPG games. One of my favorites that allude to this was Chapter Black in YYH. Demons having personalities and morals just like any human, yet them being seen as"evil" and different by default by Spirit World makes them targets for wipe out operations.
Sensui learning about this and flipping his shit made it a very interesting arc to me.
>>135120236
>It feels like it will take too long to read.
Can't be as long as Kawakami's LNs.
>>135120116
He could save them, but that would be going against his own word which would make him into a liar, so he doesn't.
That's the stipulation to having both free will and rules.
>>135120236
they should make an anime out of the bible with all of the characters as lolis
that would be the shit
the
fucking
shit
>>135120116
free will cockblocks him
remember hearing a story about jesus describing heaven and hell
he presents a soup with wonky ladles that don't work to serve yourself no matter what and you can't drink from the source and people are standing around bitching about it, Hell.
he presents the same situation as before, except the people are feeding each other, instead of themselves, Heaven.
>>135120116
He's powerless to go back on his own word, or else all of his words will come undone. He has to be absolute in his word. He's endlessly forgiving as long as people seek him out, but if people don't seek him out, he's not able to forgive them, thus he can't help them. If there was never a chance of getting into hell, then hell wouldn't exist. God isn't going to make an exception for everyone like "Okay, maybe just this guy, or this guy".
He has to uphold his word no matter what, or else his word never meant anything, and that cannot be the case. The one thing god has to uphold his the ideal of perfection and holiness as a symbol for all that follow him.
This is the reason that his agents upon the Earth constantly give sermons of his word to try to save people. God will save you as long as you seek him out, but if you never repent, he doesn't know how to help, since he has to uphold his word.
If God ever went back on his word, then everything he stands for and his word becomes nothing, he can't do that since all of humanity and the universe rests upon his word. No matter how hard, he has to remain firm on his choices, and be absolute.
However he's constantly sending out people to try to sway the people on Earth, so that they seek him out, and so that he can forgive them of sins and cleanse them.
>>135116603
Junketsu no Maria handles angels and religion very well.
And time appropriate combat, armor, etc.
>>135120257
I don't even know what that is.
>>135120116
free will is a bitch
>>135120340
A LN author who regularly writes near thousand page volumes for his LNs, each "volume" is only a portion of the arc(Vol 1A, 1B, etc).
>>135120260
>>135120268
>>135120321
>muh free will
>muh rules
God is so omnipotent that he is powerless to pulling back his words?
Or he just need to say since now the hell is not exist or everyone that in hell that has regreted his sin would be put in heaven?
>Arc of God gets captured.
>Taken and put near a statue of another deity.
>God knocks it over.
>People set the statue back up.
>God cuts the statue down with its feet in front of his Arc.
>The next few weeks the people who took his Arc got their entire cities plagued and fucked harder than Egypt.
>They load the Arc with gold, ox, spices, incense, and other shit and give it back to the Hebrews.
>God later gives a speech about other deities being crafted from the minds of men, and remind the Hebrews that there is no deity before him.
>>135120369
Actually there is no free will if people will be put in eternal hell if not following the rules.
>>135120498
God's plan is too vast and complex for humans to understand.
>>135120567
>>135120498
You have free will to go on a shooting spree but don't act surprised when the cops take you down.
>>135120567
You have free will on Earth to either follow him, or not follow him.
However free will doesn't save you from actions having consequences.
Earth is like high school; you have free will to fuck around and do drugs, no one will stop you, or you can study seriously. However just because you can do it and the choice is there and open, doesn't mean your choice won't in the end have consequences for your health.
This is how god works; he won't ever force your hand, the choice is there, he tells you about the choice, but the choice is ultimately yours to make. You can just eat, drink, and be merry; or you can buckle down and study.
Either option is entirely your own.
>>135120607
So that's not free will. At least we can see the creator of the human law while living and their enforcer but we cannot even see the creator and the enforcer while living. why must we believe something that we cannot even see let alone touch while living?
>>135120642
>you have free will but choosing wrong religion will lead you to eternal torture
>>135120705
So is that your hangup? Not being able to see God? You can't see gravity but you believe in it just fine. You can't see atoms but you believe they exist and influence the world. So what's the problem?
>>135120920
because not believing atom and gravity will not lead you to eternal torture. atom and can be seen by microscope etc. And the concept of gravity also proven by going to space. still gravity itself is a mistery and the theory itself can change anytime when more evidence is founded by human.
>>135120920
>You can't see gravity but you believe in it just fine
To be fair, everyone can feel its influence.
Something is pulling stuff down to the surface of Earth. We can't see it, but we see and feel its effects, therefore we can believe that it exists, we don't have a full explanation for it, but we observe its effects.
>>135121111
>not believing in gravity will not lead you to eternal torture
be sure to remind me that when someone breaks their spine from behaving like a jackass and ends up pinned to a wheelchair.
>>135121173
That's not eternal that's one time torture.
>>135120920
One does not "believe" in gravity or atoms. You accept their existence because you can observe their effects and predict their behaviors with regularity. You cannot observe god, and you can't reliably demonstrate his presence. You wouldn't be a "believer" in a god if you could demonstrate it with regularity instead of handwaving explainable shit away with he works in mysterious ways.
>>135116603
>"Fear Not"
but that's what the aliens say to me when they visit me in my room at night
>>135120920
I'm going to bed, but I'm still interested in this thread, so let me predict a response to the inevitable rebuttal to what you said.
The obvious response would be "I believe in gravity because I can see its effect on matter."
The response to which is that all forms of love, justice, and kindness only exists in this world because of God, the being that embodies those concepts, which means you can see His effect as well by observing where they occur.
Have also a counter for the ever inevitable argument.
No matter how you may try to prove or disprove the existence of God, it will be a matter of faith because if God were to broadcast His presence beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would be no faith, and if there were no faith, there would be no choice.
reminder that the god on the bible is a hack and any real omnipotent being wouldn't give two shits about anything you do
>>135117146
God's wrath was much more dangerous before the events of the New Testament
>>135121148
People would say you can feel the effects of the creator in everything you can do as well, in so many ways.
You can't see wind but you can feel its effects, you can't see god, but you can feel his effects. Its hard to quantify, but that's what the holy ghost is there for at times, along with faith and communication of soul.
If it was something you knew for sure and had to do, it wouldn't be faith. Its a test because he's not just making it an absolute certainty that you absolutely have to do, because the test is whether you feel the holy spirit and have the guts to move forward with it even when you aren't sure.
No one in the Bible ever felt sure about themselves, even when they could speak to god directly, they still doubted. They weren't sure, but they had courage and faith, and that's what god liked. So many people in the Bible were constantly doubting the path, asking for a sign, not sure what the next step was, they didn't know, but they kept seeking god.
This is the meaning of faith; he wants you to stay strong even when its not certain. Just showing signs of his power won't save people after all, showing miracles won't save people. I mean you had Moses part the red sea, and days later people were worshiping cows, which pissed Moses the fuck off as he broke the original ten commandments. No amount of miracles would get those people to stay faithful on their own, that's why faith was necessary. Faith is what gets people stronger, rather than being constantly reassured, and constantly being handheld along the way.
Faith is necessary; if God was just there and you could visit him at any time, then both free will and faith probably wouldn't exist I'd say.
>>135121345
>blah blah blah muh faith
kiddies don't even know the real truththe all powerful omnipresent being is the universe itself. we are all tiny parts of one gigantic being that is our reality.
>>135118430
>>135118209
>>135118150
Let me just say that you're one awesome dude. I'm learning much more from you than I ever have from having gone to church as a child to my late teens.
>>135116236
Yeah, though we prefer to call them "best girl"
can we stop talking about faith this is not the right place anyway.
>>135120236
Reading through the whole collection of Tolkien's works will probably take longer.
>>135121756
>Take it to /faith/
The only place you can get a proper conversation on anything is outside of its native board. This thread only proves that more.
>>135122019
/faith/
We had a board like that?
or you meant /pol/
>>135122070
Probably /lit/ or /his/
>>135117645
>Angels only killed the trash of society
It seemed the only angel doing his job was satan, in traditional old jew texts, the others where going berzerk making giants with human women.
>>135120642
>However free will doesn't save you from actions having consequences.
That's where you are wrong, funny enough.
You know what Abraham invented when he saw that burning bush? The LACK of free will.
Before Abraham, it was no one's business but your own which god or gods you personally follow. It was not a mortal sin to believe in one god over another, or to believe in all or none of the gods. There was no punishment for "picking the wrong one".
You don't worship like I do? That's because we are strangers, that is absolutely normal. I wasn't going to declare you dommed for not following my own brand of faith.
But Abraham saw in that fire, the possibility of a lack of free will. The idea that it is possible to punish someone for not worshipping a god he has never heard of. That you can commit a crime by not believing.
Odin, Zeus and Jupiter didn't care if someone didn't worship them. Abraham's god does. Thus Abraham's god invented the fake consequence of "worshipping the wrong god".
This had never been a problem before. It is now. Abraham's god invented lack of free will.
I speak onto the filth.I'm a massive lawfag. Genocide can be justified in a just war or it benefits the majority.
>>135119482
>The "Sugarcoated Fantasy" IS what Christainty survive on
It's the opposite actually water down Christianity is the stuff people grow out of, but if you brutalize children with threats of eternal torture and hell at an early age you have a much harder grip on them.
>>135122251
I'm not familiar with how the jews view things, because jews are already evil.
>>135122362
>It's the opposite actually water down Christianity is the stuff people grow out of, but if you brutalize children with threats of eternal torture and hell at an early age you have a much harder grip on them.
No, it is very easy to grip onto people if you can PHYSICALLY torture them. What ended wasn't the torture, but the lack of military power to carry it out.
Do you know there was a time in England when it is against the law to NOT celebrate Christmas? You have secret police running around checking homes to see who is slacking on their feasting.
Brutalising children and adults with threats of eternal torture WORKED, it just stopped working once the Church no longer has an army. ISIS is having a hell of a fun time gaining new recruits right now, because they both threaten damnation AND carry out executions. You need both threats to work. Christianity got disarmed, that was the only reason people stop being terrified. And not it is shrinking because it tried to not hurt people anymore. As we can see, Abraham's god doesn't put all the eggs in one basket, and is letting ISIS have their turn.
>>135117006
I suggest everyone read Lazy King, its ridiculously good heaven/hell fightan.
The focus in on the characters, and they all have 'sins' that they have to fulfill. Like theres a gluttony character and she has to eat everything always, so she ends up eating nigh everything in sight including her allies and such who are also always hungry.
MC is a sloth demon. He was reborn from japan but he can't remember too much because he was sleeping for 40,000 years or so and it makes him OP but since he's sloth he never does anything with it.
Character view changes each chapter, its quite the hidden gem. Also angels are actually good.
>>135116603
>They probably just really dig the whole "dark is not evil" trope since people have gotten really tired of classic heroes lately.
It's been a really long time since we had an actual church/heaven = good and demons = evil manga/anime
>>135119339
Hollywood lost its spirit. It can only parrot old things rather than come up with something interesting and memorable.
>>135117648
It amazes me that the Japs love a religion from India.
>>135117490
Actually Anon, Demons/Devils are classified into two groups: Evil Spirits and Fallen Angels. Now all Demons are Fallen Angels, and most Fallen Angels come from Azazels (Angels who stopped doing their jobs, and "loved" humans like God, and got thrown out) and Satans group (Which rebelled, taking 1/3 of the Angels in Heaven). (Azazel group came later).
We can assume most demons are evil spirits, and that there isn't that many Fallen Angel Demons as Angels are more powerful than your average spirit.
>>135122332
Not that Anon, but let me correct you:
1) Moses saw that burning bush.
2) Abrahamic faith was originally henotheists, but after enslavement in Babylon (if I remember correctly), and fear of losing their identity and such convered to monotheism.
3) Odin, Zeus, and Jupitar came way late and were practicers of polytheism.
4) There were several cults in the ME during the time of Abarham that practiced monotheism, and many people were punished for not doing so.
5) Free Will is having the choice to do something of your own accord. Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, the choice is what matters.
>>135122583
It was a pretty fun read, yeah, shame it's so short but I guess that's better than those damned Chink novels that go on for for eons and never get anything done.
>>135121216
Not him but chronic disability ain't one time torture..people can't do shit yo, somedays they want to be put out of their misery.
Think House but bedridden and doesn't have the medical knowledge to forgive being a dick.
>>135120753
Just remember the Mormans were right when you get to those pearly gates.
>This entire thread
This reminds me of that time I was in a church for some community game thing. Of course, they were trying to get people to convert to christianity but I think it failed on me.
After the whole fun and games, they sat everyone down, and one of the church guy started talking about the life story of this one rich guy that they based the games around.
>guy wasn't born in a christian family
>sacrificed his own dream/passion and went on to be quite successful in life, rich and whatnot
>friends ask him to join them in church
>refuses because he's busy and he feel that he didn't need god because if he went through his life without god and got all successful on his own, why does he need god now? Pretty reasonable and logical reasons, if you ask me
>he then told em that he'll go church if god shows him a sign
>days later, found out he got stage 4 cancer
>he then goes to church after interpreting that as god showing him a sign
What made it worse later was that there was a short session where each group of people can ask questions about the story.
I asked the guy in charge of my group this.
>So, god, being this very powerful all-knowing being, decided that he should show a "sign" by giving someone stage 4 cancer? I mean, isn't there better ways to show a sign?
The answer from the guy?
>"Yeah, there were better ways but god decided that that was the best way"
In that story, god seemed like a huge asshole.
>>135120544
Based.
>>135127492
Christians sometimes cannot explain why God is like this nor explain why he is a good guy.
That is unless its a Priest. They are good at convincing.
We humans have to stick together.
>>135119215
Guess that's also the reason why there're so many people convert to islam instead now.
>>135131421
Making people light themselves on fire and making them believe that they're fightning for some grand cause isn't much better.
>>135115391
Best angel
>>135119748
>it at least makes sense if you consider how else an entire civilization is supposed to take complete control over an area to make a place for God's word
So the Zeonists got it all right?
>>135131498
So why do we have so many converts here and there? There are even people who go through half the globe to join their cause.
>>135118083
Reminds of Yahari
>>135131747
Because they're angry idiots that think they'll achieve some difference by blowing themselves up.
>>135116603
>your face we are worshipping the Elder Gods and their messengers.
>>135131747
You were right, Islam has a clearly defined mission, and whether you agree with it or not, they do not waver from it. That kind of passion and stability appeals to people.
>>135131747
im not even sure if they are many islam converts. most christian probably became atheist or agnostic. so that's why fedora is popular nowadays
>>135119446
But instead you'd have it NTR'd?
>>135121345
>The response to which is that all forms of love, justice, and kindness only exists in this world because of God, the being that embodies those concepts, which means you can see His effect as well by observing where they occur.
Which is a totally unsupported claim that you make without any actual basis.
You believe in your god because you observe his effects on the world, that you attribute to him because you already believed.
Stop using circular logic and just come right out and say that it's an unsubstantiated belief and nothing more.
>>135116603
What if you like both winged humanoids and dead sea scroll angels? I think both have their merits
>>135122442
But Jesus is Jew.
>>135116236
I want to get raped by this woman
>>135132071
Who's to say those angels are actually not devils?
>>135130127
It's almost like there is no universal plan which everything follows and people get cancer because they sunbathed too much or whatever.
Satan /= Lucifer
>>135132135
some of the most horrible looking things are pretty friendly.
>>135132172
"Friendly" can only be attributed to someone with free will which Angels don't have.
>>135132071
angels are impossibly beautiful aren't they, read something about 'they're so pretty they give us headaches'
>>135132228
>angels dont have free will
HAHA! HUMANITY 1 - 0 ANGELS
SUCK IT ANGELFAGS
>>135132228
Then how do angels rebel against God and fall?
>>135132284
Lucifer hijacked the system and whoever wrote the bible didn't really think about plot holes.
>>135132260
>angels are impossibly beautiful
the angel of death probably isn't, since i remember hearing that he only goes for people uglier than him, which makes sense on the surface, but falls apart as soon as you think about it a little.
>>135119393
is that the 'you're only a lolicon, but a virgin too?'women on the right?
>>135117272
I was pretty sure the reason he gave them the apple was to share knowledge, not to damn humanity, it was an apple from the tree of knowledge and Satan didn't want them to be ignorant like God had them being.
So that part always made me question why did God want them ignorant and to not eat anything if it gives them knowledge and awareness.
>>135132284
They fall the moment their brains turn on.
>>135122446
>ISIS is having a hell of a fun time gaining new recruits right now, because they both threaten damnation AND carry out executions
But there are many people in the US and Europe pledge allegiance to them, shooting others by their commands and travel thousands of kilometers to join them while they're completely safe in their home where ISIS's threats can't reach them. Why is it?
>>135115391
Because in their souls they fear the western judeo-christian God. They know their 8 million gods aren't worthy enough to lick the dirt beneath the fingernails of the lowliest messenger of heaven let alone the Almighty.
>>135132603
Because knowledge is a curse.
>>135132796
Because idiots with nothing to lose.
>>135132603
God is an asshole. Why do you think he blew up the tower of Babel and muddled the common tongue of mankind into God knows how many languages?
>>135127492
Well, mere mortals cannot fathom the logic of a omniscient being after all.
>>135132897
to give us the backstory for symphogear S1 and S2
>>135115391
Because no one likes disgusting moralfags.
Don't worry op I'm writing a novel where both the angels and demons are the bad guys :^] buy the soon to be manga for only $500 a ghapder :^D
