So can someone really intelligent with good understanding of symbolism and allegories, and also Japanese language and their culture, explain this show to me? No dank memes and baiting please.
Bears are yuri fanservice fans, imagine VD fans, while the girls are fans of yuri like YRYR and those sad, depressing, yuri stories with one sided love and suffering.
The story is told from the eyes of the girls' world, ie fans of yuri who see their idea of yuri being challenged by a more animal, less pure, idea of yuri.
That's how I see it, for the symbols and references you needed to be threads, there were images explaining a lot of the imagery.
>>134903174
Nothing to get really. Ikuhara's writing makes it seem like there are things you are missing. It just is a mysterious show where not much is explained. But it clearly shows everything important, without having to have a huge knowledge of Japanes culture
>>134903389
>Ikuhara's writing makes it seem like there are things you are missing
After watching many of his works I think he likes to touch base with reality and explain shit just so that he can fuck with you even more.
Basically OP, my estimate is that the more you think about it the more you miss the point.
>>134903174
It's a show about social minority (or let's just say lesbians) staying true to their heart and not conforming to social pressure. It's the same old story of love/friendship overcoming the world. Anything else on top of it is just extra really and you can project your own interpretations on them. That's why things are left so vague in the first place--to not make this show very strictly about one concrete thing like lesbianism.
You have about 1/1000 chance of this thread being a good Ikuhara thread OP.
>>134903174
>gay bear storm
>not lesbian bear storm
you don goofed
>>134905583
>image
FUCK
>>134903174
Iz about habbing fug :DDDD
But no seriously.
It's just about girls having sex.
Literally just a yuri anime and nothing else.
You can take it as girls love, if you're more relaxed that way.
This is the weakest work in the author's repertoire. Watching Penguin Drum if you want some plot with your symbolism.
>>134903174
>So can someone really intelligent with good understanding of symbolism and allegories, and also Japanese language and their culture, explain this show to me?
No. We're just as confused.
>>134903174
There is an image floating around that has a pretty good explanation, but I don'thave it right now. it boils down to the show being an allegory for Japanese society and the way they react to irregularities (and lesbian bears are quite out of the ordinary). You can relate almost any scene of the show to this theme, so I'd say it's a pretty accurate interpretation.
Then again: If you can come up with something interesting, go ahead.
Reminder that her name is Claire, not Kureha.
You don't need to be all that to get the show, just pay attention to all he times the seies is showing on your face the meaning of the symbolism.
>>134909307
>>134903174
I marathoned it after watchingGatchaman Crowds Insightand it made a lot of sense
All I know is, it was fun and that OP was godly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-mnk1zYbzc
>>134911434
The only good thing about it.
Garbage, even by Ikuhara standards
I really get the feeling like Ikuhara doesn't intend his work to be symbolism in the "one thing represents one other thing" sense, where you can just take a "symbol" and point to a thing that it "represents." Not all authors are allegorical and I don't think Ikuhara is writing an allegory.
Stories where all the scenery don't appear to be meant literally can often tempt you to construe them that way, and I can understand that, but there's the possibility that there is no denotative referent - i.e. there's nothing that the symbol itself is trying to disguise.
I think what's happening more often in Ikuhara anime is that he wants to achieve a certain intangible feeling or theme more broadly and that his imagery is meant to serve that purpose. Consider for instance the scene with the cages in Mawaru Penguindrum, which seems to perplex everyone but is really just a concise and stylish way to represent a hypothetical past interaction between the two of them. Or the courtroom scenes in Lesbears where the characters are being asked to justify and expound upon their motives. The surreal scenery is just a vehicle for furthering the character stories - every bizarre image and symbol doesn't necessarily refer to a single thing (though some of them might, the lilies for instance have a clear enough symbolism that's easy to grasp, and the file cabinet in that woman's office, whose name I forget, where she talks about putting everything in boxes). You see these images recurring periodically throughout the series at times when they are relevant to what's going on.
So no, I don't think you can sit down with a cipher and crack the entire goings-on of this anime. I don't think that's the intended effect either. Like the pink haired guy in Penguindrum said in one scene that I liked: "A spell is just a spell, nothing more."
>>134912646
One more thing I should mention - Ikuhara likes to do that thing where he throws a bunch of imagery on the table that makes you question what's going on, and then he proceeds to explain it at intervals throughout the series. Penguindrum has the mechanical teddy bears, the penguins, the apple. Yurikuma has things like the staircase, the courtroom scene, the lilies, and more broadly the scene with Kureha is trying to shoot the bear statues and can't figure out why she can't aim at them properly. Normally things that raise eyebrows and then get their "oh, I get it" explanation later. And usually those are mixed in with a lot of other things that aren't actually explained but that are still open to interpretation nonetheless. But those other things I often think are just there for atmosphere and to make the actual significant symbols less obvious so that it's more satisfying when they pay off.
I get the symbolism but it doesn't work on the narrative. It's like Evangelion 3.0
Ikuhara is a madman.
Although I'm sure its for the best if his works are all just open to personal interpretation.
>>134905317
Has there ever been a good Ikuhara thread on /a/?
>>134903174
>>134913856
>the most important thing is the concept of allegory
Stopped reading. Hope you did well on your high school exams though.
>>134913660
The Mawaru Penguindrum threads were glorious.
>>134914528
Fuck, I only got into Ikuhara this year.
If only there were some kind of archive to look at old threads...
>>134905256
Basically this, it's about social stigma. If you want to relate it to japanese culture there's a known nippones saying which goes along the lines of "a nail that sticks out must be hammered back in". Anyways you see how the girls in the class have a whole system dedicated to astracising individuals they think don't fit. So it's basically a collectvism/social pressure vs. personal expression and individuality story.
Honestly for what it was thematically saying I liked it more than Penguindrum though I liked the visuals and narrative itself less so. In Utena I liked both.
>>134903174
Or call it out on the shit it is
>>134912646
Well, I think Ikuhara does this closer than any creator for tv series though. It's really hard to do this compared to film where the form is shorter and you can concentrate almost totally on metaphorical imagery, like in something along the lines of Tenshi no Tomago or Nostalghia.
In a tv series because of the length you usually end up expanding on things like the characters, so the viewer has a reason to come back, if you do that the story becomes more narratively concise. But I think he still achieves it to a degree. In a sense both the story and the imagery serve thematic exposition, even though you might understand them with only the narrative itself.
Kind of like how Utena is about the protagonist finding out that the ideal of prince is false and by rescuing something you can't automatically save them, since freedom from abuse is a certain act of personal will. The narrative tells us this through Utena saving Anthy time after time, yet she retains a mentality of someone who is owned. In the end Utena goes away showing Anthy she can just leave, she stops rescuing her physically and shows her an example. Anthy follows. But the imagery enforces this. The coffin is used as a symbol of a place that might make you safe but afterall you are actually closed and confined. The whole duel is also to show the idealistic mentality of trying to be someone's savior etc.
>>134914834
What's wrong? 2deep4u?
>>134913975
Just read it now and it seems right to me. I mean I think you can accept the fantastical elements as real, but it can still be an allegory. Really, if you understand the message the fact if you consider the elements that serve it real or not in the context of the work it self doesn't matter. It's fiction anyways.
I appreciate how so few people like this.
Makes it a great "good taste" detector.
It encourages Japanese girls to reject traditional gender roles, have wanton sex, become anarchosyndicalists and destroy modern society.
>>134915207
Where do I sign up?
It will become apparent, so It might as well be mentioned at the outset, that I am a fan of Ikuhara, and while you're reading my response it may be necessarily pertinent to remember this. Due to character count limit, I will only defend Yuri Kuma Arashi. That being said, rest assured that Yuri Kuma Arashi is not simply "nonsensical symbolism", and to distill Yuri Kuma's essence into such a slanderous phrase is not only an insult to Yuri Kuma, but also a insult to your own intelligence and argument. Also keep in mind, phantasmagorical hermeneutics notwithstanding, your confidence alone does and will not attest to the veracity of your specious claims in contesting the verisimilitude of the purportedly ostensible narrative of Yuri Kuma Arashi.
It should be quite clear to even the most cursory viewing of Yuri Kuma Arashi is an allegory for the plight face by homosexuals in contemporary Japanese society. The invisible storm illustrates that the self-interested and self-sufficient individual remains the ideal, in which the centering of rational choice and a capacity of transcendence both occludes group-based harms of systemic oppression and conceals the complicity of individuals in the perpetuation of systemic injustices.
The fantasy sequences are symbolic of how fantasy is always greater than reality, and how the romance Kureha felt for Sumika will always be more limpid and sonorous in her mind, where it must now forever remain. It is true that the people concerned in anime are not what we would call 'real people.' But none of the feelings which the joys or misfortunes of a 'real' person awaken in us can be awakened except through a mental picture of those joys or misfortunes; and the ingenuity of Ikuhara lay in his understanding that, as the picture is the one essential element in the complicated structure of our emotions, so that simplification of it which consisted in the suppression, pure and simple, of 'real' people would be an improvement.
>>134909307
>紅羽
People don't actually believe this right? Kureha isn't even the appropriate moon phenoms for Claire.
One thing I took from it was that it was about different forms of love, and I don't mean being gay, since everyone in the show outside of the judge bears was female. That was the norm, so it was not something to judge, at least in the context of what was shown.
There was unrequited love (Lulu and Ginko), selfless familial love (Lulu and her little brobear), possessive/destructive love (Kureha and the bear who becomes her inner voice), the love of friends who don't see each others flaws (Ginko and Kureha when they were younger), jealous love (Kureha's mother and the principal who couldn't handle her getting pregnant), and the painful first love that is lost too soon (Kureha and Sumika).
Probably missing some other relationships, but that was a big thing people didn't seem to take away from it. As much as it was about the "invisible storm" of collective social judgement, it was also about the damaging and healing capacities of love in its various forms. I really did love this show - one of the better written anime this year, certainly an AOTY contender for me.
>>134915514
which would be the appropriate ones?
Description of Yuri Kuma Arashi from the BDs:
>A challenge echoes across the Wall of Severance, “Kureha Tsubaki, is your love the real thing? If so, prove it.” Kureha responds that she won’t back down on love, and accepts the challenge. She voluntarily dives into the invisible storm, and, despite facing exclusion from her peers, shatters her own reflection under the guidance of Lady Kumaria, the Star of Love. Kureha then finds Ginko Yurishiro, with whom she creates a world beyond the wall, beyond severance, a world where no one is excluded.
See, it actually sounds good when you put it like that.
Never forget, /a/nons.
>>134915566
ku re a
Worst Ikuhara show
>>134915592
That last part is implied at best. They don't show any of their new world in the end, only that they are together somewhere. The fuck am I supposed to know that they make a new judgment free zone?
That's also a hell of a lot of spoilers for a description.
>>134915663
It doesn't spoil anything.
Notice how they don't mention bears.
>>134905256
This is the impression it left me with as well. The bullying scene made it a bit blatant, iirc.
>>134915598
Is this supposed to be a badly translated line?
>>134905256
>It's the same old story of love/friendship overcoming the world.
Exceptthey get shot at the end. The world overcame them. The world is stronger than you. The world destroys souls. It will CRUSH EVERYONE.
>>134915663
>only that they are together somewhere.
They are together........in dEaTh
Why do yurifags have to analyze this show?
Just fap to it and be done with it.
![Mawaru Penguindrum - Ep08 [BD-720p][Flep].mkv-00h11m24s851.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h9SbzRD.jpg "Mawaru Penguindrum - Ep08 [BD-720p][Flep].mkv-00h11m24s851.jpg")
>>134915787
Gosh, I must crush them soon!
>>134915827
>no nipples
I can't fap to that. I admit the character designs and artstyle are decent, but seeing nippleless tits is such a turn off
>>134915927
>needing nipples
>not fapping to fully clothed yuri scenes
You gay?
>>134915972
Yuri is shit though. I only fap to yuri for the girl's bodies
>>134915972
Did they have sex?
>>134916010
>>134915972
>fapping to yuri to begin with
Absolutely fucking disgusting.
>>134916126
>not fapping to Gagarin's body
What are you? Hetero?
>>134916126
I only masturbated to that whore voiced by Aoi Yuuki. The rest of them were too boring too arouse me
>>134915378
Allegory is a lazy mode of interpretation, because all you have to do is say "X represents Y." It's the interpretive equivalent of a horoscope. But the idea that it's merely an allegory cheapens its actual value as a story about human beings with real feelings and conflicts. Ikuhara isn't a moralist trying to teach us a lesson in coded symbols. He's a storyteller who wants to delight us while making us think.
>>134915546
I think this is spot-on.
>Being friends with man-eating bears
>>134916851
Can't a fantastical be real within the confines of the story and still serve as an allegory with those fantastical elements?
>>134917370
Any story can. To say that that's the most interesting thing about the story or the primary interpretation of it misses the point entirely.
Pretty Cure can be construed as an allegory just as easily.
>>134915135
It's also a retard detector like G-Reco. Seriously OP, you must be braindead to not get the show.
>>134917445
Yeah, but OP said he didn't understand Yuri Kuma. He didn't make this a discussion about the characters, visual direction or the setting. So I don't really know what you're trying to prove here.
Just a friendly reminder that bear can't love girls nor other bears
Also, Suspiria imagery.
![Shoujo Kakumei Utena 1997 - EP30 [BD 1440x1080 FLAC].mkv_snapshot_07.24_[2015.09.12_18.46.17].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/edWFaQU.jpg "Shoujo Kakumei Utena 1997 - EP30 [BD 1440x1080 FLAC].mkv_snapshot_07.24_[2015.09.12_18.46.17].jpg")
>>134917106
>Being friends with a rapist nigger.
>>134918469
>>134915657
That's not Sailor Moon R.
>>134918356
Yup. Superior imagery.
>>134918469
>nigger
it's curry dick.
>>134918469
Friends != his fucktoy.
>>134913856
This is amazing. Love it.
Gao Gao.
>>134921941
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4pF_-GsfCI
>>134918469
Girls love rapists and Akio wasn't a nigger, he was Hindi or something.
