I need some clarification, this is my second time watching Reconguista and shit still doesnt really make sense
but first a poll because im sick of the G-reco defense force constantly shitting up threads
http://strawpoll.me/6262995
So to start cons:
>shit characterization
>raraiya monday have little to no reason being made retarded to advance the plot or implement the setting
>friends turning on each other for no reason
>going from sankto porto to Towasanga to Venus globe with little to no reason as to why they wanted to even go to any of the palces
>forces constantly in-fighting and then just stopping likes it no big deal and working together
pros
>great art
>great mobile suit design
>nice ost
so why did they go from sankto porto -> Towasanga -> venus globe exactly and why did mask switch to working with venus globe got lost around the ep16 or ep20 when this happened
>>134740561
>this is my second time watching Reconguista and shit still doesnt really make sense
You're a special kind of retard.
>>134740561
also why was flamina 2 ft shorter when she was on earth, or not in a body suit, or not also a skeleton
why were kuntalas never fully explained, why did mask become soo hateful towards bellri
why did manny being bellri's friend and then asking mask to reconcile with him then turn on him and try to kill him like it wasnt a big deal
>>134740561
It's bad but it's not as god awful as a lot of people say it is.
>my second time watching Reconguista and shit still doesnt really make sense
Pay attention. It's not that complicated just not very well explained. If you really can't understand what's going on someone made a chart.
>>134740650
>hey heres some reasons why things are the way they are
no G-reco defender will ever do this
>>134740734
this is all well and good but it doesn't explain why they kept choosing to race to the next location
also doesnt explain why flamina and her group didnt realize the G-self wouldnt run without a rayhunton or Raraiya for whatever fucking reason
the plots got a shit ton of holes and it wasnt a big deal up until the megafauna and amerian army enter space
I never had an issue with understanding the territories and groups
>>134740561
anyone know if the model sales were any good btw, wouldnt mind trying to read about what some of the backpacks were supposed to do if they had manuals translated
>>134740650
>never answers the cons or the questions
well im fine with letting this thread die after this
we need more votes
>>134740561
i watched it for the art
plot was a mess
>>134740561
>this is my second time watching Reconguista and shit still doesnt really make sense
I pity you.
>>134744786
>>134740742
just proving my point even further
>>134744347
No, we need more episodes.
>>134740650
Retards that can't pay attention aren't much special.
>>134744983
10:5 G-reco a shit
>>134740655
Christ, you truly are a goddamn moron unable to pay attention.
Everything in G Reco gets explained eventually, if you are seriously still confused you're retarded. What G-Reco fucked up is it took it's sweet time explaining everything so for the first 15 episodes you didn't even know what each faction was or why they were fighting eachother. Looking back on it after watching the whole thing it's pretty good and more enjoyable as a rewatch than the first watch imo.
>>134746001
>>134745381
>>134744983
>>134744786
>>134740650
for each of these G-reco defenders not a single one has tried to explain/defend any of the cons
>more enjoyable as a rewatch than the first
second watching I was less bothered by aida and bellri getting over their friends deaths but alot of the characterization behind mask is still unexplained and frankly too out their to believe, same goes for manny as well as the rayhunton family group being the worst spies to exist as well as the dumbest
>>134746197
>alot of the characterization behind mask is still unexplained
That's because you retard are supposed to put the pieces together yourself. This is not IBO where everything is spelled out loud so braindevastated with no imagination can get what happens.
>>134740561
Did you watch Zeta? Did you watch Turn A? Did you enjoy those two shows?
The popular opinion, at least here on 4chan, is that they're some of the best Gundam series ever made.
So what I don't understand is how can these two shows be so unanimously loved yet G-Reco so controversial? They're all Tomino shows and they all have typical Tomino quirks. I can understand how someone who's never watched a Tomino anime might find it weird, but I honestly don't understand how can someone love Zeta and Turn A but hate G-Reco. Are these people only saying they like Zeta and Turn A because they're popular classics or what?
>>134740655
>why was flamina 2 ft shorter when she was on earth
Body suit makes you taller.
>why were kuntalas never fully explained
What is there to explain? Tomino said he wanted them to represent a sorta of stain in human history, for how low it went, and prejudice given the lack of interactions between Spacenoids and Earthnoids for all those years.
> why did mask become soo hateful towards bellri
Because Bellri is a traitor and Mask sees him as a possible danger for Kuntalas in the future.
It is all due to the lack of understanding between the two of them. Mask doesn't know what Bellri has been through during his travel to Venus Globe, and even when Manny tells him about all that he still refuse to listen.
> then turn on him and try to kill him like it wasnt a big deal
Because of what Barara said to her ("Mask gave me good memories"). She thinks that if she won't help Mask until the end then Barara will take all the glory and she will be left with nothing.
She says all that, it is hard to miss the reason she acted that way.
>>134746197
>as well as the rayhunton family group being the worst spies to exist as well as the dumbest
They destroyed the Dorette fleet. That was their goal and they accomplished it.
If anything, they are among the best spies for Gundam standards.
>>134746466
flaminia was acknowledged as leaving the group by lorucca and the other silver haired guy and she straightup joined the G-IT group so I would say no her actions were a by-product of her actions that werent calculated
also the group send G-self to earth and doesnt realize only 3 people are known to be able to pilot it then tried to move it
>>134746443
>body suit makes you taller
it also showed la Gru to be a living skeleton yet she wasnt
>kuntala
ill take it
>Bellri a traitor
it was never established that he was a traitor, but as a POW when they initially fought, so I will take lack of understanding at the beginning
however up to the half moon mask was still trying to kill him after several encounters with him and possibly realizing every action he took to not kill people would kinda be a flag
>She thinks mask will leave her
in ep 25 which is where that occurs she still doesnt try to kill him, but then ep 26 she just goes for it
idk call me crazy but it feels really forced both tiimes watching it and seeing the character progression especially while marathoning it, maybe its because the series is too short that within that time frame it just feels too far fetched to see people who were classmates and friends to then be nonchalantly trying to kill one another
and even then the time frame in the anime takes a course of about 1 month if that, considering the space travel section is only a week to venus globe and back
>>134740954
>they kept choosing to race to the next location
Because they don't want the shit to turn into a full scale war.
>flamina and her group didnt realize the G-self wouldnt run without a rayhunton or Raraiya
Because why would they? G-Self isn't exactly some super common tech running on super common knowledge. It'll be like expecting outsiders to know of proprietary info of some corporations.
>for whatever fucking reason
Are you asking why it's restricted to Rayhuntons? If not, see above, if yes, it should be obvious, to restrict access.
>>134746697
>flamina and lorucca setup the G-self to be sent to earth
>they dont know only 3 people can use it despite knowing its has an ability to identify rayhuntons
>no reason as to why raraiya can use it
I think they should know or at the least explain why raraiya could use it
>kept chasing to the next location
yes but why does the amerian and captial army head to towasanga, what was the point of them going
>>134746345
G-Reco is more ZZ and most people say ZZ is good just to troll Zeta.
>>134746345
>unanimously loved
maybe on /m/ but theres a decent 50/50 split on both of those
probably less in double zeta
>>134746681
>she straightup joined the G-IT group
She was always a G-IT.
Also did you miss Lorucca and his friend on G-IT ship during Yggdrasil test? They accomplished what they wanted, since it got Dorette killed.
>also the group send G-self to earth and doesnt realize only 3 people are known to be able to pilot it then tried to move it
And? That was their plan.
THEY put the lock on the G-Self and sent it to Earth to retrieve Bellri and Aida. Go watch again the episode where Bellri and Aida meet the for the first time. It is all explained there.
>it also showed la Gru to be a living skeleton yet she wasnt
La Gu is much older. he is something like almost 200 years old.
>it was never established that he was a traitor
So joining the pirates ship funded by the enemy government, fighting the unofficial army of your motherland and keeping getting in Mask's way don't count as treason for you?
For Mask Bellri was a traitor, and he had every reason to think that.
> after several encounters with him
In which Bellri never bothered to explain his reasons to Mask and only kicked him.
>realizing every action he took to not kill people would kinda be a flag
Too bad Mask doesn't see them.
>in ep 25 which is where that occurs she still doesnt try to kill him, but then ep 26 she just goes for it
She decided to go help Mask as soon as she knew the Yggdrasil started killing people.
Also, what is the problem? At first you complain her change came out of nowhere, now you complain she hesitated for a moment to take the decision to kill a person she knew?
make up your mind.
>>134746755
>>they dont know only 3 people can use it despite knowing its has an ability to identify rayhuntons
What are you saying? Rayhunton Resistance knew that only 3 people could use the G-Self.
They are the ones who put the lock on it.
>>134746877
so Flamina was always G-IT but didnt realize there was a lock on the G-self restricting it to 3 pilots then when trying to steal it realizes it wont allow her or the other guy to pilot it?
>bellri being a traitor
it was acknowledged that the g-self was commandeered and he was a hostage by col cumpa, there was no knowledge then as you state that bellri was even piloting the g-self probably until the third engagement against mask
>manny helping mask
im just saying it feels like a stretch in characterization but thats my interpretation
thanks though the other points do clarify some things
>>134746964
>they are the one who put the lock on it
then why the fuck were they surprised when they could steal it
>>134747028
couldnt* steal it
>>134747028
That's exactly why they're surprised. If I put a lock on my door and have the only key, I'd be pretty surprised too if someone else could open it.
>>134747057
Im at a loss here man, again the group who knows the G-self specs and knows it has a locking feature
THEY KNEW IT HAD ONE IT WAS STATED
then they try to fucking steal it KNOWING THIS
what was the point
>>134747000
>when trying to steal it realizes it wont allow her or the other guy to pilot it?
You know, G-IT have all the tech from UC. Trying to disable the block wasn't such bad idea.
>there was no knowledge then as you state that bellri was even piloting the g-self probably until the third engagement against mask
And in fact Mask started raging very hard after the Towasanga episodes.
>>134747028
I don't even know who you are talking about anymore.
Resistance != G-IT
Resistance put the lock on the G-Self. They knew and expected it to work. And it worked.
Flaminia, being a G-IT, tired to disable it, because who knew maybe it worked.
And it wasn't a far fetched idea, since Happa managed to turn off the codes and put the G-Self only in restricted mode during their travel to Venus Globe (the scene where Bellri cries when Happa speaks about Rayhunton's feelings for their kids).
I seriously don't understand what is the issue here.
>>134746681
>however up to the half moon mask was still trying to kill him after several encounters with him and possibly realizing every action he took to not kill people would kinda be a flag
They WERE trying to kill Bellri. Or more specifically, Kumpla knew damn well what Bellri and co were up to. The whole 'we're trying to rescue the director's son!' is an excuse to get Bellri out of the way since they're trying to uncover/ruin his plans.
As for Mask. That too is deliberate. The whole point of Mask is that as the series goes by, you realize that Luin being a chill dude with Bellri was a front. Deep down he has always been jealous of Bellri. The Kuntala thing was, by the end of it, just an icing, a convenient excuse rather than the main point. Not unlike Char vs Amuro in CCA.
>>134747120
>they were trying to disable the lock
was that ever stated actually
I watched the episode a day ago and all I remember them saying is that it wouldnt startup and they couldnt get it to move
>>134747188
> them saying is that it wouldnt startup and they couldnt get it to move
So it was locked and they tried to use it anyway.
What about it? They aren't the first people who tired and failed.
>>134747173
>col kumpa full of shit
yes this is fine and its known hes manipulating bellris mom and shit w/e however
>deep down he[mask] was always jealous
thats a bit of a stretch as we get no indication of this really unless you wanna use his statement in the final episode where he fucking loses his mind in which thats just bad writing
>>134747211
well knowing knowing the issues with it and then having this big hostage situation with the half moon and their main target is to steal the gundam knowing this it just seems really fucking stupid
>>134747308
> thats just bad writing
Or maybe because that's the part where he dropped thefaçadefor real. It's not bad writing if it's consistent with the way the story has progressed. And it's not a stretch at all, unless you genuinely think that 'Kuntala pride' is really his key motivation. Seriously, I hate to re-use that /m/ stock phrase but pay attention to the dialogues. Tomino's not even subtle.
>>134747308
>where he fucking loses his mind in which thats just bad writing
Why should it be bad writing? He lost focus because the war was getting nowhere, he became desperate to the point that he refused to listen to his girlfriend just not to admit he was wrong about Bellri.
It is not bad writing, it is stress.
>this big hostage situation
Who are you talking about now? G-IT taking Megfauna crew or Capital Army thinking Bellri was an hostage on the Megafauna?
In the first case, they thought they had time, given their inexperience in war and "lack of imagination" (Noredo and Aida repeated it dozens of times, that Spacenoids wouldn't expect a counterattack of any kind because they are not used to war).
>>134747393
>>134747398
>knows what a directing officer does after all luin lee was a capital guard recruit
>knows bellri is a selfless individual as he tries to take out the pirate with a weaker suit
>the entire series bellri couldve killed mask albeit he doesnt and constantly is trying to keep from harming people
>suddenly fucking thinks bellri is going to be a dictator because hes butthurt
This is honestly what I saw with his progression
farther than that you could just argue mask hates him because he got his shit wrecked and just wanted to justify killing him in the traditional I wanna kill someone because im the "masked" character of this gundam series but thats just shit, making him the villain despite being smarter than that
>>134747825
sorry let me clarify that green text
>last episode luin lee loses his shit and thinks bellri is going to be a dictator as the next directing officer
>thinks its worse because he hears hes a rayhunton
>he says this while knowing bellris mom is just a lackey for the pope and towasangans/ slave to su-cord religion
how he makes the connection is beyond me while he knows bellri is a pacifist to an extent and selfless
>>134747867
Congrats, you know understand why Tomina is saying that these sort of racial discriminations are pointless and irrational.
>>134747308
Mask character for retards who can't put 2+2 together
Born a kuntala, lived his whole life being mocked for that, anger builds up and develop a grudge against upper classes. Wants to get out of this situation and make a difference so joins the CG. Meets Bellri who's the son of a big shot, being friend with such a person would come with benefits, Luin pretends to be Bellri's friends despite Bellri being everything Luin hates, someone who got everything without even trying. Luin is offered power from CA, being Bellri's friend has no meaning anymore with this new rising power. The Fullmoon ship appears as a wild card in the war holding much firepower, Mask naturally goes for it. Luin's character is so simple it's impossible not tot get it.
>>134747867
>>he says this while knowing bellris mom is just a lackey for the pope and towasangans/ slave to su-cord religion
Which is exactly the point.
Bellri's families, both of them, are families used to power, while Luin has a weak background.
Knowing Bellri's original family was even more powerful than his adoptive one is not a joke or an useless detail for someone like him.
Have you never seen anything about Communism? It is the same thing.
+beautiful visuals
+great fights/animation despite the whole y'know violence being awful tomino thing going on
+onee-sama
-awful, awful, awful, awful, awful plot/writing
-onee-sama was relegated to the role of token tits a few episodes in
-onee-sama was his actual onee-sama
>>134747899
Here's a problem you find with people who watch anime... or any medium, but especially anime and video games.
If a character does something stupid and irrational, they ask "why is he doing that" not "what point is the author trying to make here"
"why is this guy so stupidly and self detrimentally racist?"
To show you how stupid it is in real life, the in narrative reason doesn't matter.
>>134746805
This ZZ, like Reco, are shit
>>134747867
>how he makes the connection is beyond me while he knows bellri is a pacifist to an extent and selfless
You don't get it, Luin only sees what he wants to see, Luin doesn't see Bellri has a pacifist, Luin only sees Bellri has a spoiled kid given free power at every turn. Luin is the bullied kid, he's used to people being asses, he knows people are asses, being bullied Luin learned to bully, Luin can only see Bellri as an ass that will only get more power in the future, Luin can only see people as aggressive in nature.
There's a simple saying that defines Tomino's message with Reco perfectly, power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts absolutely.
You thinking with "Bellri is a nice guy so everyone sees him as a nice guy" is an actual problem that Tomino addresses in the show, that being that people raised in different environments will think in different ways and won't be able to imagine other ways of thinking but the ones they were taught.
The more I read people complaining about Reco, the more it's obvious they didn't understand much of it.
>>134748210
>being that people raised in different environments will think in different ways and won't be able to imagine other ways of thinking but the ones they were taught.
Fucking this!
Seriously, nobody asked themselves why Bellri traveling around the world was so important for Tomino that he dubbed himself in the ending?
That is the answer to 90% of the issue people have with G-Reco.
>>134748084
thats not the point though, he knows bellri as a person and has seen his actions but now hes ignoring them to just be angry
he also knows at the end hes more allied with pirates that as Aida told everyone in the first two episodes that shes for a fair spread of photon batteries and would prefer if it wasnt shipped to them but rather new the construction itself so all territories could develop it thus no power gap
as for
>>134748066
>>134748210
no need to belittle me but you yourself are reading into his character or is this what tomino style writing is, where I have to read into characters constantly
isnt that just considered shit writing when I have no real experience with what the kuntala race is supposed to be percieved as besides the passing, "we were once used as rations in the past" and the bullying that occurs but at the same time
noredo has no problem with it and no one on the megafauna treats her like shit in fact the only racism we experience is at the first two episodes and one mention with the G-IT corps
I personally did not like it. I vastly prefer IBO.
>>134748119
>-onee-sama was his actual onee-sama
That's a +
>>134747825
>>134747867
Tomino is a hack and hasn't learned anything since the 80s desu.
>>134748185
I got to admit, this is pretty much why sometimes I find it frustrating to have a discussion on /a/ sometimes. People can't seem to accept that fictional people can make irrational actions too and that characters making seemingly illogical actions may not necessarily be due to bad writings.
>>134748329
not if it meant having a relationship with her was too taboo to be aired
at least we got one magnificent doujin out of it
How the everloving fuck did G-Reco of all series become the next big controversial clusterfuck? It's a normal fucking Gundam series. Did /m/ just get bored with shitpostint about ZZ, CCA, and SEED all day or something?
>>134748307
>noredo has no problem with it and no one on the megafauna treats her like shit in fact the only racism we experience is at the first two episodes and one mention with the G-IT corps
Are you >>134747308 ? In which case then, now do you see why it isn't bad writing or stretch at all that Mask's beef with Bellri was personal rather than the Kuntala pride that he claims?
>>134748307
>no need to belittle me but you yourself are reading into his character or is this what tomino style writing is, where I have to read into characters constantly
Every piece of fiction you're should be expected to read into the characters, otherwise there's no point to it. You suffer from something I feel like a lot of nerds do, people that watch anime, play games, etc. You don't get that some things are unimportant and don't matter. What a kuntala is doesn't matter, all that matters is that they're considered second class citizens. You see that and that sets up elements of a character. That's it, what they are, and how they related to the history of the world don't matter. It doesn't matter why the flash can move really fast, he can, that should be the end of it. But sadly it isn't and superhero comics are largely a joke because of that.
>>134748307
>hes ignoring them to just be angry
And it is something very "human" even if irrational.
Have you seen Zeta? Kamille tells Katz not to get involved with Sarah, even though he himself is deeply involved with Four and later Rosamia. Same thing, Kamille refuses to see and acknowledge the issue.
>he also knows at the end hes more allied with pirates that as Aida told everyone in the first two episodes that shes for a fair spread of photon batteries and would prefer if it wasnt shipped to them but rather new the construction itself so all territories could develop it thus no power gap
That is a misinterpration. Luin couldn't care less about who has PB, he wants to prove Kuntalas are worthy people inside the Capital Territory.
> I have no real experience with what the kuntala race is supposed to be percieved as
But you do! Go rewatch the scenes with Rockpie and Kia. They think Earthnoids are violent and apes because they know about Kuntala. Kuntalas are supposed to highlight the prejudice towards Earthnoids and Spacenoids' hypocrisy, given that Rockpie is usually a hothead and the first one to punch Klim in a sacred place.
>noredo has no problem with it and no one on the megafauna treats her like shit
Because that is what Tomino wanted. Megafauna was supposed to have a stronger message of coexistence and understanding than his previous works. He said that in an interview.
>the only racism we experience is at the first two episodes and one mention with the G-IT corps
See above.
>>134748389
To some people, if they can't see the entire train of logic that leads someone to make an action they think is stupid, then it's shit writing, and that makes literally no sense, but somehow it gets reinforced.
>>134748307
>when I have no real experience with what the kuntala race
Guess what? That too is part of the point Tomino was making and no it's not reading into his character. He flat out mentioned in one of the interviews that Kuntala was based on an actual persecuted group in Japan.
Anyway, at that point in time in G-Reco, nobody remembers the actual shit that Kuntala went through anymore. It was all just 2nd hand discriminations passed down from previous generations. At that point, nobody had any actual reasons to mock the Kuntala anymore. But they still do. And that's the really stupid thing about it.
>>134748481
>if they can't see the entire train of logic
Once you read some interviews and think two minutes about the events or dialogues, it's very hard not to see Tomino's logic behind G-Reco.
The amount of details and interpretations is tremendously big, but I thought it made way more sense than a lot of his works.
>>134748507
>He flat out mentioned in one of the interviews that Kuntala was based on an actual persecuted group in Japan.
He didn't say that. He just said that maybe he made Noredo too recognizable as someone from a different ethnic group (the slingshot).
>>134748552
Fair enough. It has been a while since I read it.
>>134748565
It is from the Q&A at AnimeJapan.
We got only a few of his answers translated.
>>134748535
But you don't need to know. I was more specifically talking about characters than overall writing. If anything I should actually change what I was saying to "people do look into things, but they do it to such a surface level that they're purely looking for explanations for what made a character do X or Y instead of what the narrative wants to convey with them doing X and Y" Maybe it comes with watching so many things that have less than nothing to say.
>>134748450
I wouldnt say that I read plenty and its not far fetched to see someone turn into the villain but very few are shown the reality of a situation and then just say fuck it then it just seems like they wanna be evil for the sake of being evil
which is what mask did and Ii just feel its a cop out in writing
I can see it though as these two have iterated their viewpoints it becomes more apparent to an extent
>>134748066
>>134748210
still kindia feels more like headcanon for the most part since we dont really get to see how mask it dealing with the stress and its more like you just expect without knowing him too well
tl;dr- point is I feel mask became a cop out angsty character that just got butthurt at the end, when at the same time I didnt want him to be that simple I never believed in the kuntala pride shit but I never thought him to be soo petty when faced with reality when he was considered one of the best and brightest
>>134748633
But what if being far fetched is the whole point? what does mask having a logical progression add to the meta-narrative?
What does him being an irrational actor add?
>>134748633
>soo petty when faced with reality when he was considered one of the best and brightest
So was Char. Being one of the best and brightest doesn't mean you can't also be a petty asshole.
>>134748633
>how mask it dealing with the stress
He flat out said he was desperate when he sunk Mashner's ship.
>>134748664
Actually I just remembered metanarrative is actually a very specific term and I shouldn't have used it, instead I should have just gone with what does it add to the narrative and your interpretation of said narrative.
Is he trying to show the issues of being purely irrational? etc.
>>134748595
Yeah, true. Another thing I've noticed is that often these kind of disagreement arise because people just end up arguing 'well, if it was me, I would have just done X', which of course defeats the purpose of trying to have characters with different attitudes or mindset.
>>134748671
>>134748664
I guess your both right, maybe because of all the erratic behavior from everyone it seemed to bother me even more with that monologue of him being a dictator was too ridiculous to me as a viewer to swallow at the time
>>134748703
y'know he says that but I dont feel it from his character's VA or that image, on top of that with the jumping scenes from fight to fight it gets lost on you a bit atleast thats how I felt
none the less helpful discussion
>>134748307
>is this what tomino style writing is, where I have to read into characters constantly
Yes it is, which is the exact opposite of what IBO is doing and why people are getting pissed at it.
>>134748671
Char and Amuro are LOADED with Buddhist ideas and philosophy and shit, the more I learn about it, the more I think it's hard to seperate newtypes from buddhist ideas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81_Bao_A_Qu anyone?
>>134748329
It blew my mind but at the same time it sadly also meant that there would be no actual incest.
>>134748781
And Turn A's Black History = all Gundam series are endless cycles of each other.
Like reincarnation.
>>134748748
>on top of that with the jumping scenes from fight to fight it gets lost on you a bit atleast thats how I felt
That is also what Tomino thought.
He realized there were too many fights and too little time to decompress event or character emotions, so people (viewers) got lost in all the battles and still have to process the informations.
As I already wrote, once you read his interviews it is hard to think he is just senile, G-Reco makes no sense or he lost his mind and can't make good anime.
He is a very reasonable director, even more than a lot of other people from the anime industry, even though he is old.
>>134748748
>jumping scenes from fight to fight
I have to admit, this is one thing I didn't quite like about G-Reco. It feels like it's too short for a TV series format and each episode could do with a little extra time to make the scene transitions smoother.
>>134748849
>once you read his interviews it is hard to think he is just senile
More like the more you read about his interviews, the more you realize that senile is the last thing that could define him.
>>134746345
>So what I don't understand is how can these two shows be so unanimously loved yet G-Reco so controversial?
Because they go straight to the point.
G-Reco failed because it tried to be deep and convey a message.
>>134748873
>senile is the last thing that could define him
Yeah, he script'd, storyboard'd and directed 26 episodes by himself and now it is working on the movies. At 74 years.
You could literally feels his energy in G-Reco, even from stupid things like the eye-catch.
Nobody in the anime industry puts so much effort in their works anymore.
>>134748931
>Zeta goes straight to the point.
But Zeta had no point, anon!
>>134748671
>So was Char.
Mask VS Bellri is closer Jerid VS Kamille than Char VS Amuro.
I think Tomino loves the "loser" archetype. He used it many times.
>>134748983
Yeah. Ideon had Gije, King Gainer had Asuham, and Dunbine had Todd.
Todd was probably the most competent out of the three though.
>>134748424
Well for one thing, G-Reco is now confirmed to have happened after Turn-A.
>>134748941
I doubt many people realize the amount of work and dedication that went into Reco.
>>134749169
Poe and Chronicle also come to mind.
But I think Char in CCA is by far my favorite. He felt almost too real.
>>134749194
I honestly cant see it from the characters or storyboard to be honest
the art and designs definitely but it just feels rushed and trying to fit too many things into it
>>134749175
The shitposting started from episode 1 airing, that interview wasn't until the show was over.
>>134749275
>it just feels rushed and trying to fit too many things into it
And that is exactly where you feel Tomino's energy.
Most people would have dropped completely parts of the story or avoided trying to tell you that much. Tomino instead tried to fit everything he could despite being impossible.
Of course the result ended up being very flawed, but I think it is impressive he tried that much at his age.
Also the storyboards are fantastic, you should take a look at how much movement there is among the characters in the background.
>>134740561
>no "it's just okay" option
Great poll, OP
>>134749302
Oh I was just posting one of the reasons, but you don't even have to think that much to reason why it's this controversial. It was Tomino's latest work and it's Gundam, the shitposter are drawn like a moth to a flame. Then you have the non straightforward story telling fueling more gas into the flame.
>>134749433
if you havent noticed this entire threads had an engagement of either "youre retarded" responses for not understanding the show or "the show is shit"
G-reco doesnt allow for inbetweeners
>>134749514
And what stops you from placing a third option in there?
Shit isn't black or white
>>134749514
>G-reco doesnt allow for inbetweeners
Good job ignore half of the thread.
>>134749559
For you.
https://strawpoll.me/6264157
>>134748185
Making a retarded character in a fictional story do things you disapprove of in real life is a shitty and shallow way to criticize something.
It's like pretty much a strawman argument.
If you can't even come up with a believable character who holds a certain opinion you're in no position to make a comment about it.
It's not like trying to express something is an excuse to throw out any logic in that story for that goal. If anything good writing is to come up with a believable situation that shows what kind of mistakes people make in real life.
>>134749570
>>134749559
no fence sitters allowed
>>134749609
>Making a retarded character in a fictional story do things you disapprove of in real life is a shitty and shallow way to criticize something.
You missed 40 years of Tomino doing this.
Amuro whining about not wanting to get in the Gundam and getting slapped should have been an hint on how and why Tomino writes his characters.
>>134749718
What's your point?
>>134749766
That Tomino always made characters act in unpleasant or not so popular ways to tell something to the viewer.
Amuro acting like a spoiled brat and whining because Bright didn't appreciate his efforts was one of those moments.
>>134749275
>I honestly cant see it from the characters or storyboard to be honest
A lot of sequences have incredible storyboards, first episode is full of those.
The characters are mere tools to deliver the many messages Tomino wanted people to catch.
>>134749342
One of Reco issues is that Tomino was pushing for too many goalposts, which is commendable but ended up being misguided considering the episode count.
>>134749609
>Making a retarded character in a fictional story do things you disapprove of in real life is a shitty and shallow way to criticize something
That's IBO way of doing things.
>>134749609
But he can and did. See the discussions above.
Mask as a character believable and there was no logic being thrown out. Luin's irrationality was logical in the scope of the situation, which again was a believable situation and was drawn from real life events.
Whether you personally find it believable or not, that's an entirely different issue.
>>134749890
IBO is doing the opposite extreme of G-reco and spending too much time on the individual characters and makinig everything move at a snails pace
you gotta get the sweet spot in between where you get just enough where you can read into characters action because you get small updates on them while not getting too little where your doing dark souls tier head canon
>>134748424
>It's a normal fucking gundam series
if they cut out all the exposition.
>>134749947
>IBO is doing the opposite extreme of G-reco
IBO is taking the viewers for braindevastated idiots.
>spending too much time on the individual characters
This could be good if those were actual characters.
What the fuck actually are Kuntala?
I mean, I know they're a people, but they've got no defining characteristics. How the fuck do you identify people as one? What's stopping people simply assuming a non-kuntala identity?
>>134749925
Actually I wasn't really trying to argue against Luin as a character but that guy's view in general. In particular this statement
>"why is this guy so stupidly and self detrimentally racist?"
>To show you how stupid it is in real life, the in narrative reason doesn't matter.
I was just trying to say that the in narrative reason DOES matter.
If Luin is believable and has his reasons that's fine with me.
>>134748983
>Mask VS Bellri is closer Jerid VS Kamille than Char VS Amuro.
Except Kamille fucking steamrolled Jerid without taking him seriously while Mask was able to render the G-Self inoperable.
>>134750162
>What the fuck actually are Kuntala?
They are people whose grandgrandgrandparents were used as food during the end of Universal Century.
>but they've got no defining characteristics.
That was the point for Tomino.
>How the fuck do you identify people as one?
You don't.
>What's stopping people simply assuming a non-kuntala identity?
Because the characters in G-Reco can identify them, but you, an outsider, can't.
That was the point, for an outsider that discrimination makes no sense, just like our racism wouldn't make sense for an alien.
>>134750271
I guess that makes sense.
That said, there was fuckall in the actual series that even the characters in the show could identify them.
>>134750257
If you consider only who beat whom then Char VS Amuro doesn't fit because Char never managed to kick Amuro's ass once.
It is more Jerid VS Kamille because the rivalry is one-sided and because Mask and Jerid's hate for Bellri and Kamille is more on a personal level (Bellri represents what mask hate the most in society, Kamille is someone who took away Kerid's lovers), meanwhile Char and Amuro rivalry is based on them just being on enemy sides and having to fight each other not to die.
>>134749854
But funnily enough, Amruo's paranoia always ends up being on the money, when he is convinced they're trying to take the gundam off him they ARE, when he thinks the feds are watching they ARE, when he thinks char is tricking them with the axis trade, he IS.
It's interesting.
>>134749609
No it's a super common literary technique that some of the most esteemed literature in the west uses.
>>134749947
IBO is spending a lot of time saying nothing at all. It's interesting to see it have all these things like exploitation of children, then manage to use them as nothing but flavour for character development, it doesn't even really criticise it!
>>134749925
>Mask as a character believable and there was no logic being thrown out.
It's really not that believable when there are no other kuntala characters who complain about "oppression." It's like the whole Kuntala race bullshit was created for him and revolves around him only, having no other consequence on anyone else, ever.
It's bad writing.
>>134750327
You don't need to point out how they can, you just need to know they can, and if anything it would dilute the point of making to seem strange to you to do so.
>>134751179
If no one else cared why were they all on board with what he said? the reason they didn't talk about it is because they were bit characters, or had no reason to do so. Forced exposition for the sake of you wanting to have it isn't really meaningful.
>>134750343
Char did for the first half of the series sorta. And even later on they were pretty equal with Amuro edging out, but in fights like that they always look even right up until it turns one sided then it looks like a stomp.
>>134751226
The show never actually indicated THAT they could though.
>>134751256
well it did, by them doing it.
Them doing it is all the indication you need. It dilutes the point by having them go "hey look at that X, that's how we know you're a kuntala"
>>134751149
>it doesn't even really criticise it!
Do you really need to have spelled out to you that child exploitation is bad?
>>134751430
No, but if you're going to include it then it's just disrespectful to use it as pure flavour instead of actually providing any commentary, and I'd argue even half way glorifying it as it is in IBO.
>>134751466
>No, but if you're going to include it then it's just disrespectful to use it as pure flavour instead of actually providing any commentary
It's obvious that a lot of characters suffer from it. What kind of commentary do you even expect?
>and I'd argue even half way glorifying it as it is in IBO
Just like other gundam series arguably glorify war while making a statement against it.
>>134751601
>It's obvious that a lot of characters suffer from it. What kind of commentary do you even expect?
Anything. Here's a simple step to tackling subjects like this if you don't want to actually say anything about them.
Step 1. Write something else.
>Just like other gundam series arguably glorify war while making a statement against it.
Yes they make a statement, and the glorification of war is also required to happen for other statements they make to work.
>>134751337
They never actually did that though.
Hell, characters had to explain to others that they WERE Kuntala.
>>134751887
I would have to re-watch all of it to confirm or deny that, so I'll take your word and go from there.
Even if that is the case, the point is still purely "this is weird and stupid" so by you thinking it's weird and stupid it's doing it's job.
>>134751657
>Anything
Great example. Seriously, though what's a statement to you?
Doesn't showing characters in a certain situation and how they deal with it count as exploring the situation to you?
Can't you look at something at judge it for yourself without an author shoving his own opinion on you?
>Yes they make a statement, and the glorification of war is also required to happen for other statements they make to work.
Don't delude yourself. Even if it's sometimes self aware of it watching cool giant robot battles is unironically a big part of gundam's appeal.
>>134751950
>Doesn't showing characters in a certain situation and how they deal with it count as exploring the situation to you?
No
>Can't you look at something at judge it for yourself without an author shoving his own opinion on you?
Not really because this is the author's defined world. Yes I know that these things are bad, but so what? why are they in your work? are you going to do anything with them? no? then why are they here? Hell you know what maybe I take it back with what I've been given the show is more accurately saying "child labour is awesome as long as other kids are leading it!" while also having an arc where one of the characters being a bad leader is causing problems, but it's all still working out and they're learning so it's good!
>Don't delude yourself. Even if it's sometimes self aware of it watching cool giant robot battles is unironically a big part of gundam's appeal.
The point of good people going to war for various things, including glory of the homeland doesn't work unless you make war look glorious. Then you take that away in an instant, 0079 did this many times, it constantly reminded you that this isn't actually glorious, it's hell. People die for no reason, people are damaged, etc.
The romantic, humanist points made in Wing of all things don't work unless you create the world as a pseudo-mythology in the style of the romantics and then bring in a dehumanising element (mobile dolls) and then have opposition to them, etc.
>>134751149
>when he is convinced they're trying to take the gundam off him they ARE
Yes, but it was retarded and typical of a spoiled brat. His attitude was out of place. Who gives a shit if Bright doesn't pat him on the head to show appreciation? They are in a battlefield! Stop with the whining!
>>134752170
Oh I'm just pointing out that it's interesting that Amuro's paranoia is always on the money. It makes you wonder what the significance of it is. Is it just because Amuro represents someone that has achieved satori and can see the nature of things? or is it a representation of Tomino's world view? etc
>>134752233
>is it a representation of Tomino's world view?
Amuro is the average kid from the 80s, geek and with separated parents, in the middle of WWII.
He is just spoiled and needs to man the fuck up in order to live in society. That is why Bright slapped him instead of patting him in the head.
I think it is more interesting to compare him and Kappei, whose family is the old and strong extended kind which shares the burdens and pains among all the relatives.
>>134752077
>No
Why not?
>Not really because this is the author's defined world. Yes I know that these things are bad, but so what? why are they in your work? are you going to do anything with them? no? then why are they here?
Those questions are all meaningless as long as you don't define what worthwhile statement is to you. It's easy as fuck to simplify any work like that and ask what the point is but in the end it's still just you saying you wanted something else from that work while not specifying what that is.
You can't even deny that IBO is criticizing child labor which is what started this argument in the first place but just move the goalposts by saying its not doing it a way that pleases you.
>Hell you know what maybe I take it back with what I've been given the show is more accurately saying "child labour is awesome as long as other kids are leading it!" while also having an arc where one of the characters being a bad leader is causing problems, but it's all still working out and they're learning so it's good!
That interpretation is forced as fuck. Just because the show shows a shitty situation being improved doesn't mean the improved situation is supposed to be some sort of ideal.
>>134751149
>It's interesting to see it have all these things like exploitation of children, then manage to use them as nothing but flavour for character development
Okada and co understand nothing about storytelling.
