Why couldn't Archer defeat Berserker twelve times?
>>134594830
So he could kill him seven times over the next morning.
>>134594830
Saber crippled him at the beginning of Fate.
At the time of his fight with basakah he still wasn't at 100%.
Because Berserker is the superior warrior. In order to beat Berserker, Archer would have needed to prepare twelve Broken Phantasms and made sure that each of those twelve delivered a fatal strike. That's not easy against someone as strong, fast, agile, dexterous and just plain talented as motherfucking Heracles.
>>134594830
Terrain disadvantage that forced him to fight at close to mid range against the deadliest melee servant of the war, no master support, and Illya being there, which meant Archer had to limit his attack options to the ones that couldn't accidentally hurt her.
In order to win, Archer should have used a strategy similar to Gil's and aim for the master all the time.
In a fair fight, unless he starts attacking from really far away, he is very unlikely to win, as it is every other hero in the 5th HGW not named Gilgamesh.
Considering what Archer has been shown capable of, I always thought it was ridiculous that he could kill him 6 times in a weakened state.
>>134594830
not enough Rin's anus mana
>>134600322
>in a weakened state
Citation needed.
>>134600366
Did he recover? I honestly don't remember.
I just remember him getting his ass beat by Saber in the beginning of that route and being useless until this one moment.
>>134600461
I also don't remember, that's why I asked for citation.
This and wether Blackened Berserker still had God Hand are two of the most blurry facts in powerlevel discussions.
>>134600321
Why didn't he go for her master ? Did he know he was fighting his sister or what ?
>>134599936
Not necessarily. The only time he uses (and presumably kills) Berserker with a broken phantasm is in Deen's version. I don't recall him using BPs against Berserker except in UBW, and that did precisely jack shit.
>>134600612
Illya was right there in front of him, of course he knew who was Berserker's master.
Archer's memory issues last for like half a day, HF proved that she remembered Illya just fine.
>>134600691
But why didn't he try and kill her then ?
>>134594830
So where does herc fit on the power list? Upper middle tier?
>>134600599
I recall him having recovered a bit, but not being at his 100%. Been a while since I read the VN though.
>>134600612
He's not an asshole, except to Shirou. And yes, he probably knew who she was, or at least he does in HF and Deen's.
>>134600656
Which raises even more questions.
The fuck did Archer do.
>>134600721
Archer is not Kiritsugu, he wasn't going to nuke his fucking sister just to win.
>>134600721
>Shirou killing Illya
Anon please you cannot be this dumb.
Probably ran out of mana and couldn't project anymore rank A noble phantasms.
God Hand not only negates anything below Rank A, it also negates anything that has killed Herc before. Only way to over come it is by using different weapons/attacks above A rank (which only Gil or Archer could do) or the bullshit method of killing off multiple lives with a single attack (Shirou/Saber method).
>>134600787
Exactly. Deen hand waved it with UBW, presumably that implicitly applies to the VN too.
Also Shirou managed to kill him too while outside of UBW.
God Hand works however the fuck Nasu feels like it at the moment.
>>134594830
We just had this fucking thread. Who does this uninspired shit of recycling the same shitty threads over and over? I see it with fate threads all the time.
>>134600787
1) Overedge is probably A rank
2) He can trace A rank strength from his projections
3) He technically could use NLBW
4) A suicidal God-tier projection like that degraded Excalibur we saw in HF isn't out of the question
5) Broken Phantasms don't need to be used specifically as arrows
6) We don't know how many conceptual bullshit NPs like Rho Aias he has stored in UBW, so the possibilities are many.
>>134600849
>negates anything that has killed Herc before
This is completely wrong and people need to stop repeating it. Hercules gains resistance to anything that harms him when he heals from the damage, even if he doesn't die. But it doesn't become completely ineffective against him, it just becomes more difficult to harm him.
>Q: Is Berserker's "immunity against an attack he has experience before" an ability of his Noble Phantasm, or is it due to his ability to see through the attack?
>A: The answer is that, it is a result of both the resilience of his body, as well as his techniques. God Hand has the ability to make Berserker's body immune against an attack after it has been damaged once by the said attack. Also, Berserker himself possesses the skill to see through an attack he has witnessed before. However, due to Mad Enhancement, this "technique of a swordsman" is sealed. As a result, he can only count on the ability of God Hand.
>Q: For Berserker's Noble Phantasm "God Hand," it says that he'll gain resistance to any attack he's been dealt, but does it require for him to "die" for this to happen? Would the same attack work multiple times so long as he doesn't die from it?
>Nasu: There's no need for him to die. It's something like...for example, if he is damaged by flames, after his wounds heal he'd gain +100 fire resistance or so.
>Takeuchi: Hey, seems like it's been toned-down. Wouldn't it have rendered flames completely ineffective before?
>Nasu: I said it wouldn't work, not that it would become completely ineffective.
>BB: "I nullify all attacks, and Mr. Macho there triples his defense! How are these two any different?!"
>Herakles: "(I'm not hacking the system like you are!)"
>Takeuchi: Either way, it's a pretty broken skill.
>>134603414
>it doesn't become completely ineffective against him
It does in the VN. Nasu changed the mechanics for the anime, this is why Takeuchi asks
>Hey, seems like it's been toned-down. Wouldn't it have rendered flames completely ineffective before?
>>134600656
That caladbolg did actually take a life off in UBW
>>134603414
Nasu has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.
But this was always true, almost everything involving Berkserker in the Fate route is completely retarded and should be ignored.
>>134606723
>almost everything involving Berkserker in the Fate route is completely retarded and should be ignored
>If I didn't like it, it didn't happen
>>134600795
What would Kerry do if he was fighting instead of Archer?
>>134607273
If he lets his daughter live, then his son dies, along with some more people.
If he kills his daughter then his son lives along some more people.
He decides to kill Illya because he's losing a loved one either way, but if Illya dies then Rin & co get saved as a bonus.
>>134607273
Murder her for the greater good, then cry over it.
Then he'd discard the grail anyway.
>>134598896
So a 100% Archer can beat him?
Probably in a similar way that Gilgamesh beats Berserker in UBW. Gil is a bit better than Archer, plus it's possible that Berserker wasn't constantly defending Ilya the whole time, what with the opponent being Archer (someone who could very well have some attachment to her) rather than Gilgamesh. So Archer is only able to take out about half of Berserker's lives.
I don't know, I'm just speculating
>>134600612
Archer isn't trying to win the grail war in any route.
>>134607560
If he targets Illya or fights with a lot of range. A fair one on one with no distance between them is very unlikely to end with Archer's victory, even if he's at 100% condition.
>>134607560
Archer can't beat Berserker.
Hard to say.
Maybe if he wasn't weakened by Saber and had prepared UBW and some BP's he could take all his lives.
because the PLOT
Did Black Berserker still have God Hand?
>Archer loves saber
>is valiantly holding Berserker back, throwing his life away for even just seconds of time for them to get away
>meanwhile saber's getting banged in a shed by a ginger teenager
>>134594830
Because he could. He just wanted to die in order to stay away from Saber/Shirou relationship, so they (90% Saber) could have a chance of being happy.
>>134598896
He was fully heal by then
>>134609154
Citation needed.
>>134608908
>>134608908
That ginger teenager is himself
What's the problem?
>>134609430
C'mon it's all the same, it's not like they're connected by telepathy, they're entirely different people.
>>134608908
Ugh, yeah, I REALLY felt disgusted by the way the author decided to restore Saber's mana, i.e., killing a cool character off and have her get banged by MC with some help from Rin. And afterwards we have MC and Saber Five-OHKiling Berserker with some bullshit Nasu decided to have them pull off at the end.
As to Archer loving Saber, it is said he tried to save her, but it seems he didn't actually fell for any of the heroines during his HGW.
>>134609341
This shit alone made me want to drop the VN SO hard...
>>134609341
The true reason why he's butthurt in UBW.
>>134609794
He did fall for her.
Archer's HGW is a Good End Fate Route.
>>134610132
That is Shirou from Fate Route.
>>134609794
> he didn't actually fell for any of the heroines during his HGW
He loved Saber so much that he overcame his hate for Shirou and decided to keep his CG job.
>>134610165
Nasu said Archer is Shirou from Fate recently.
>>134610223
Why can't Archer be happy with Saber?
>>134610246
*slightly changed Fate route, that is.
>>134610246
I'd like to see a link stating that, if you don't mind.
>>134610246
Did he really need to spell it out? It's common sense.
>>134610281
If we talk about FSN Archer, then because he "couldn't save her heart" once, and wouldn't try it in fear of failing her again, plus multitude of other reasons. If we talk about his HGW - well, who knows.
>>134610301
This
