Is Berserk a 10/10 manga?
>>134545403
Not really.
>>134545403
It's a solid 7.
>>134545403
That's all subjective.
>>134545403
If by "10/10" you mean "really good" then sure.
>Overused "Europe in the Middle Ages" fantasy setting
>rape gore rape rape gore gore aren't we so mature guys
>10 years on a boat
Nah
>>134545403
its a 9/10
>>134545403
There has been never ever a 10/10 manga published.
NEVER
>>134545403
It's very good for a manga. Not the best but I think it deserves 9/10.
Nausicaa is 10/10.
9/10 is the maximum anything can be, generally, 10/10 is much more subjective to each person's taste.
Berserk needs to finish, the pace alone as an on-going series makes it not even a 9/10
>>134545403
Black Swordsman - 6-7/10
Golden Age - 10/10
Lost Children - 10/10
Conviction - 10/10
Trolls and shit - 7-8/10
Vritannis - 8/10
War with Ganishka - 10/10
Sea God - 6/10
Boyhood Arc - 10/10
Falconia - 8-9/10
>>134546960
>It's very good for a manga
>for a manga
What's this supposed to mean?
>Nausicaa is 10/10.
It doesn't even take advantage of the manga medium the way Berserk does.
>>134546960
>Nausicaa is 10/10.
I'm a laffin
>>134547196
>What's this supposed to mean
It means that manga as a whole is of rather low quality.
>>134547122
This, pretty much.
The manga has it's up and downs.
It's a solid 9/10
If the end (if it ever comes) blows our mind out of cheer epicness, I may rate it 10/10
Guts learned not to build a party out of stacking fighter. His new party has a lot more balance.
It went to shit once Guts stopped being edgy. At least it made his character unique. Now he's just a feel guy surrounded by obnoxious comic reliefs.
>>134545403
No, it's like a 7/10 with some 9/10 moments. Good art, well developed characters, decently set tone, and terrible terrible comedy that gets worse as he adds or relegates more characters as comic relief.
>>134547259
Are you one of those people who hate anime and manga but posts here anyway?
>>134547259
So is pretty much every other medium. Sturgeon's law.
>>134547380
I don't hate anime and manga but I don't value them that much.
>>134545403
No.
>>134545403
At times. I'd give it 8/10 overall. Note my wording: "I'd give", because my rating is just that, my rating, and only says something about my taste.
>>134547417
I don't know any manga without some glaring flaws.
>>134547122
Too many 10's imo.
Golden age is like an 8 or a 9, and that is the highpoint in the story, if you're going to look at character development, followed by Lady Farnesse's 'arc,' post Shierke's introduction.
>>134547330
>At least that made his character unique
No it didn't, no version of Guts is really that unique. It's just that Miura is better at writing edge than he is at writing healing, so the latter half of Guts' development isn't as interesting.
>>134547500
Ignoring that you sound casual as hell, name something from any other medium without one or two glaring flaws.
>>134547524
I sound too disparaging. It's a good manga. I want to clarify.
It has it's ups and downs. There's definitely parts where it's a rock solid 9. It slips down to a 6 (storywise, the art is never ever less than an 8) sometimes, and most of the time hovers between a solid 7, and an 8. It's a good manga.
I wish Miura would get his ass to work, and take it seriously, like he used to.
Isidro exist, so 9/10.
>>134547576
I'm into film so I can name you many films like that. It's not that they don't have flaws, I just don't think about them. It's impossible with manga.
>>134547737
Puck exists, so 6/10
>>134547330
>edgy
>unique
Black Swordsman and Lost Children arc edgy Guts were, objectively, when he was the least unique, comparatively.
Guts is at his most unique (again, objectively, according to what "unique" means) in the sense that he "grows up" out of the edgy-dark persona, and becomes more considerate and appreciative of others. Yea, it's not as fun as Golden Age, badass cool guy Guts, or Lost Children, >crawling in my skin Guts, but, hey.
>>134547634
>the art is never ever less than an 8
If anything is extremely overrated it's the art.
>>134547802
At least Puck is not annoying as that little cunt. Isidro is literally the Jar Jar Binks of Berserk.
>>134547790
>it's not that they don't have flaws, I just don't think about them. It's impossible with manga
Sounds like more of a difference of taste(and probably experience) than anything inherent to the medium.
>>134547877
At least Isidro isn't constatly breaking the 4th wall for the epic pop culture references and dressing up game.
And we really didn't need that other bitchy fairy.
>>134547790
Nice bias anon.
>>134547821
>>134547821
Compared to? In what way?
Not necessarily "arguing." Just curious.
I agree that it looks a little cartoony, but only here and there. And for the most part, Miura's art is amazing. To think that everything is just coming from one man, that's pretty god damned impressive. Especially some of his spreads from his earlier times, whew. Jesus christ.
>>134548067
I'm pretty sure he has assistants.
>>134547877
You have them backwards mate.
Sexy shota Puck was great. Isidro should never have been brought into the story; GUTS is the male protag here, not that kiddy shounen faggot. Puck should have simply remained as how he was in Black Swordsman, instead of being replaced by the ginger and turned into a fucking running gag character. M fucked up, there.
>>134548067
Early art looked mediocre at best, current art is way too cluttered and the characters themselves have odd looking faces.
>>134547877
>Isidro
They want the shonen audience.
>>134547330
As much as I hate to admit it, i have to agree with you. For me, Berserk was a perfectly written and engaging story from volumes 1 until around 17. As soon as it hit the conviciton arc the series began going downhill, The humor starting becoming increasingly obnoxious, pacing slowed, even the action started pushing it as over the top imo (although i actually like the berserk armor since it makes sense in the context of the world). To me, things like guts launching a canon ball at a charging beetle demon, while using the momentum to tourqe his body and blade into the mantis demon at his flank, was utterly badass. Him cutting a column in half at the tower of conviction, was not.
>>134545403
If it ever get finished, yes. Let's say for now that idolm@ster is a 10/10 game.
>>134547790
Because films are compressed as fuck compared to any manga longer than 2 volumes. Of course you're gonna notice more flaws when you consume something over the course of a month or year rather than in one 2 hours sitting, and you're probably gonna notice the flaws in said films a lot more during rewatches.
>>134547330
>guts
>edgy
Man, He Loves to fight and not being edgy. Even when he saw first time Nosferatus he shit in his pants but fight anyways. After the Golden Age shit goes down for him and found new bitches for helping him for not being and edgy faggot.
>>134548168
>Early art looked mediocre at best
Take that back you fucking nigger. Yea, it was not the best in the industry... but to say "mediocre"... what kind of standards are you using here, buddy?
>the characters themselves have odd looking faces.
You know, I know what you're talking about. The way he draws his character's faces is different. But I think "odd" is the wrong way to put it. Miura's characters have always had "odd looking faces," but I definitely prefer his older style. It was less "technically realistic," I suppose is the term, but it was also more akin to the anime-manga standard style, and I think it was more expressive that way. But perhaps I am just more familiar and more comfortable with that general style.
>>134548105
Ah, well, maybe I'm wrong, then.
>>134548289
I don't disagree.
>and you're probably gonna notice the flaws in said films a lot more during rewatches
Minor flaws are irrelevant. Most manga have really major flaws.
Berserk - Puck, Isidro and humour
Vagabond - "philosophy", extremely slow pacing. Naturally I compare it with samurai films and something like Harakiri is just so much better
Any Urasawa manga - too many characters, too many subplots, usually a terrible ending
Punpun - too edgy and miserable. It wouldn't be a problem but it stopped feeling authentic.
>>134545403
It used to be
>>134546847
You're gonna have to work on your grammar if you want anyone to reply to you seriously.
>>134549222
>minor flaws are irrelevant
I'm not talking about minor flaws, name a film with no major flaws. Also try reading shorter manga.
>>134549436
The Godfather.
>>134549499
Fuck. Okay well name major flaws in Palepoli, Fly Daddy Fly or, I dunno OMK.
>>134549222
The only real problem with Punpun is that it went on too long, if it had been shorter the misery wouldn't have gotten stale. And comparing Vagabond to classic samurai films is stupid, they're too different in nature for that to be an appropriate standard.
>>134549757
Palepoli isn't a plot-based manga and I don't remember it that well. Let's say I wasn't impressed by it.
>Fly Daddy Fly
I don't know that one.
>OMK
Dropped after two or three chapters.
>>134550138
>dropped after two or three chapters
Well fuck you then.
>>134550248
Well, it looks amateurish. Art is very important in a visual medium.
>>134549222
>the entry-level "mature" seinen are most manga
>movie comparisons
>authentic
You seem better than most /tv/ cross boarders, but you still need to work on not making generalizations beyond your experience. Lurk more.
>>134548369
There are people who will defend monkey Casca.
>>134550474
it was foreshadowing to her retardation
>>134550414
The Godfather is entry level and it's better than any "mature" seinen manga.
>>134550368
That doesn't mean they all need to be extremely detailed or anything, it does its job fine. It's simple and the style is a little boring, but it flows pretty well and suits the tone and setting, and is never garishly bad.
>>134549321
There has never ever been a 10/10 manga published.
>>134550570
It's not.
>>134550585
Maybe. It's just not very interesting. Coming of age, perverted main character, shallow otaku sensibilities. Meh.
>>134550570
Because becoming entry level in the film industry and becoming entry level in manga have completely different requirements, because the industries are completely different.
>>134549499
>>134550570
The Godfather was made-up garbage. None of the characters acted like real gangsters. Even Goodfellas is more realistic than The Godfather.
>>134550875
Great critique there. You could dismiss anything like that.
>>134547817
>in the sense that he "grows up" out of the edgy-dark persona, and becomes more considerate and appreciative of others
He's pretty much the same, his 'edgy' persona was there to push people away so they don't get killed and he's always been cold toward stranger, you just don't get to see it now that he mostly interacts with the party. I guess the word edgy lost its meaning, even in the swordsman arc he's not just practicing senseless violence and is shown to care.
>>134545403
Nah. No manga out there's perfect. But it's definitely a solid 9/10.
>>134551145
Not him, but Swordsman Guts was definitely in a much edgier light than later on. That monster-fucking scene is really weird when you reread.
There are only two 10/10 manga. Devilman and pic related.
Fist of the North Star would also be up there but the second half can't live up to the first.
>>134549499
>>134550570
The godfather's story is overrated as fuck, it's directed very well but the story is just theatrical gangster shit. The manga you talk about have larger flaws because they actually try to make their stories and characters somewhat complex, so there's more ways to fail.
>>134551216
>That monster-fucking scene is really weird when you reread.
It was the first chapter, got to grab the audience's attention somehow
>>134551216
>but Swordsman Guts was definitely in a much edgier light than later on
I'd argue the whole atmosphere was made that way cause he's traveling alone, it was simply more pronounced to show how much he struggled. Not to mention he was basically going insane whenever he was telling consoling himself about onlookers getting killed cause of the brand.
>>134551383
>>134551216
Re-reading Black Swordsman makes me appreciate Puck much more. He worked so well as a foil then, especially when you realize Guts was basically going insane from revenge and loneliness and he was sort of trying to pull him out of it. He worked pretty good in Lost Children too but that got undermined by him becoming more and more of a comic relief character rather than a foil.
>>134548298
Guts is the definition of edge. It's easy to forget as he has character growth and people seem universally to like him, but try to read the first volumes again and claim he's not edgy. He pulls all the cliches that have already reach sad meme-status, including "nothin personnel, kid". Guts definitely has been edgy.
And I just want to mention "edgy" is nowadays used pretty much as a negative buzzword, but being edgy doesn't instantly make the character shit even though many people on /a/ seem to believe so.
Berserk is a 10/10 manga up until Miura ruined it by turning into a faggot and making it some bullshit shounen high fantasy adventure barely resembling what he originally set out to do with the series. The early arcs are 10/10 all day long and without question among the very best manga ever written.
>>134548284
>Him cutting a column in half at the tower of conviction, was not.
What? That's the least plausible thing to you? The fucking sword's weight alone could smash walls, not to mention Guts in his prime wielding it. The punishment he endured in swordsman arc alone is more bullshit but its not supposed to be grounded in reality, especially since the fucking character is wielding a sword that isn't possible to wield in real life.
>>134551594
I remember when someone first explained inertia in regards to the Dragonslayer. Made it hard for me to re-read Berserk for a week or so without laughing a bit at shit like him whipping the thing aroung.
>>134551649
You needed someone to explain to you it was unrealistic?
>>134551649
>first explained inertia in regards to the Dragonslayer
>>134551649
Even the sword he wields during the Golden age is not very plausible either. I chalk up his strength to wield the Dragonslayer and the punishment he endures from the apostles cause of the brand, like when SK mentions he's constantly at the interstice, it makes him even more inhuman
>>134551702
I knew it was retarded but I thought Guts having essentially super strength solved most of the problems with it. I never thought about how much Guts weighed himself and how it'd be impossible to move the thing without basically throwing his body all over the place.
>>134551799
The kicker is he does it one handed too
>>134551566
/thread
>>134551566
You are the definition of a pleb.
>>134550995
Since when realistic equals good?
>>134551320
>it's directed very well
Well, yes. And the story doesn't ruin it.
>>134551799
To be fair it's not like he's swinging it around like a ninja or something, it's mostly slow strategic/well placed strikes.
That is of course until the shitty modern arcs where he is doing aerial cartwheels with it like it's fucking Dynasty Warriors or something.
>>134552211
>To be fair it's not like he's swinging it around like a ninja or something, it's mostly slow strategic/well placed strikes.
You were saying?
>>134552106
>And the story doesn't ruin it
It doesn't hurt it, but it keeps it from being anything impressive story wise. If you try something more complex you're always gonna have larger flaws. Like A Streetcar Named Desire, it's plot is interesting and complicated, and Blanch is a complex character, and both her and Stella are well developed. It's a good movie, but its complexity makes you realize how one dimensional Stanley is compared to everyone else.
>>134552298
I don't think plot or complexity is that important in film.
In fact, it's something that hurts many manga. Especially manga with more complex narratives like 20th Century Boys.
Berserk is great because it's relatively simple without too many plot twists.
>>134552297
Eh, something like that is extremely rare and it's from the beginning of the manga where Miura was still getting a feel for the fight scenes. Just looking at it feel unnatural because the fights basically never look like that.
Yes, I'm sure you could find another panel where he is moving the sword around quickly, but I'm pretty sure you know what I mean here.
>>134551594
>>134551649
>>134551702
>>134551789
>>134551799
>>134551828
Guts has a special ability that allows him to break Newton's 3rd law. This allows him to exert an action on the sword without feeling an equal and opposite reaction from the sword, which is why he doesn't sink into the ground all the time and how he can swing the sword around without being swung around himself.
>>134552456
>I don't think plot or complexity is that important in film
And that is why you fail. Plot complexity is one thing, but character complexity is important if you're trying for anything that can be called good or above average writing, at least one or two should be fleshed out, or you just end up with a bunch of caricatures fucking with each other. Berserk's plot is kind of simple relative to its length, but the main characters are all at least somewhat complex and developed(except the comic relief ones).
>>134552466
>established from the start of the manga that he's a master swordsman, has amazing reflexes, speed and herculean strength
>Miura was getting a feel for fight scenes
>its fucking shown throughout the manga that he's fucking fast and strong
>hurr shitty modern arcs
I don't know what you mean, people really need to read the manga before talking shit. I'm sure everyone is frustrated at the slow updates but the story is fine
>>134545655
/thread
>>134545403
was great until the eclipse, should have never had all that stupid grimdark bullshit. literally ruined the series.
>>134552701
I've been suffering through the slow updates since 2004 and I can assure you that has nothing to do with me calling the current arcs shitty. It's also not like that is some controversial opinion or something, most fans feel this way. Not sure why you're having a fit over essentially nothing.
>>134552701
>the story is fine
No. People saying the problem is Guts losing his edge are retarded, but the story is way too filled with shitty comic relief, and barely any plot progression. Basically the problem is Miura can't write comedy, and even ignoring the release schedule the last few volumes barely have any story in them on Guts' side.
>>134552690
There are great films without any characters.
>>134552930
>fit over essentially nothing
You calling current arcs shit cause of something that was established from the get-go isn't nothing
>most fans
Guess what, most Naruto fans consider it a masterpiece, doesn't mean they're right.
>>134553009
>barely have any story in them on Guts' side.
Why is this a problem? The whole fucking world changed with Ganishka's death, it was necessary and it was a nice parallel to show how fast everything changed while Guts & co were on the boat. There are a tons of other things that need exposure, like God hand backstory as well as SK.
>barely any plot progression
Its the slow release, Ganishka was in vol35 and were at 38 now. Sea god arc being 1vol isn't a big deal, its just Miura was on a big fucking hiatus
>>134552930
Since 2007 actually.
>>134553009
>the last few volumes barely have any story in them on Guts' side
There is nothing wrong with that.
>>134553149
They can have great storytelling, they aren't very good stories though.
>>134553009
Besides that fact that it's been roughly five years of literally nothing happening in the story, yeah, it's been more like four volumes of directionless padding. That's a big issue and it doesn't appear like Miura has any idea what he wants to do anymore. It may as well be a dead series at this point.
I'm going by the idea that Falconia was the last important/story thing for the record.
>>134553162
>You calling current arcs shit cause of something that was established from the get-go isn't nothing
That's not what I did at all though, you just jumped into the conversation and assumed that. I was just making a comment that the Berserk sword fights are generally much more slow paced than in a typical manga.
Believe me I wish the only problem with the recent arcs was the shift to over the top fighting.
>>134553162
>Why is this a problem?
Because the shitty fucking pirates took up like 10 chapters with their bullshit, that is unjustifiable.
The "problem" is that Miura is 50 years old and doesn't give a fuck about some grimdark fantasy shit he came up with in his early twenties.
>>134553255
>I was just making a comment that the Berserk sword fights are generally much more slow paced than in a typical manga.
No they're fucking not, re-read the whole thing, every time Guts mows down soldiers, they're not sitting there for 10 minutes talking about his sword and being scared shitless, he fucking cleans house and fast.
>>134553315
It was a nice build-up to the main baddie, and slaying a fucking god wouldn't do it justice if it was rushed.
>>134553255
>yeah, it's been more like four volumes of directionless padding
The Sea God arc is only two volumes long.
>>134553371
>It was nice build up to the main baddie
No it wasn't. It was buildup, which was necessary, it wasn't good though. It was annoying as hell and killed the mood when he became a tentacle and still kept up his fucking schtick.
>>134553371
>No they're fucking not
Okay.
>>134553380
Sea God or not, volumes 35-37 and the coming volume 38 have done nothing for the story.
>>134553371
There's a different between clearly drawing the battle in a way you can for example follow the sword, and in a naruto way where fights are people going so fast their movement turns into fucking lines.
>>134545403
sure
>>134553483
>Berserk
>you can follow the sword
Nope.
soo basically shitters are complaining about berserk not being realistic again, a fucking fantasy manga, god i hate you faggits
Is Vagabond a 10/10 manga?
>>134553558
I almost want to filter that image, because every time someone posts it, it's a completely retarded opinion from some newfag.
>>134553435
>No it wasn't
>mow down tentacles for days
>Its literally his beard hair
It was fucking brilliant and the pirate was there for ~10ish chapters. It was simply a long hiatus between them.
>>134553483
There's this thing called art style and being lazy too, its not necessarily a representation of speed. And as i've said its been repeatedly noted that Guts is fast.
>>134553482
>have done nothing for the story
>Stuff of legends coming to life
>Gods appearing instead of staying in the deeper layers of the astral world
Okay
>>134553558
No one is doing that. Some guy is experiencing autistic rage because he took a comment I made about how the sword fighting is stylized out of context, that's all.
>>134553482
Showing Rickert in Falconia was important from the worldbuilding perspective.
>>134553669
>It was fucking brilliant
The twist was, the pirate and his retarded schtick was completely unnecessary for that. I get the long hiatus, that doesn't mean they didn't waste a lot of time with the pirate.
>>134553667
kill yourself
>>134553702
I guess. Certainly doesn't excuse 4 volumes of poorly paced, pointless, and uninteresting manga though. Even the fights were very subpar.
>>134553731
>the pirate and his retarded schtick was completely unnecessary for that
They were there to portray Guts' recovery and he always fight a pseudo-apostle before the main villain
>>134553755
I'm not the One Piece shitter who can neither read nor type properly.
>>134552930
>most fans feel this way
In light of recent events, I decided to give this series a go, is it a good idea to start with the anime or should I start with the manga instead?.
>>134553773
>4 volumes
They were fighting Ganiska 3 volumes ago, and the fights were pretty good
>>134554234
Watch the movies and read everything else on the wiki, then start posting your opinions here
>>134554284
not sure about the opinions part, but i will follow the movies and wiki advice. thx.
Berserk is 9/10.
It's very good but over its 25+ runtime it has become a bit bloated and had some mediocre arcs and story decisions. But the good moments and parts make up for it.
The problems it has are more "it's not really interesting right now" rather than "holy shit this manga is fucked and he wrote himself into a hole". Long running manga can easily go into the latter category.
I think Miura will split the party soon. It's too damn big, and no one wants to see a giant group of characters they don't care about every panel. Plus, it's hard to draw.
>>134554348
He was being sarcastic. Read the manga.
>>134554367
I hope he continues releasing chapters on a monthly basis, but something tells me if he goes on another long hiatus, there's a big chance he'll drop the series for good or he'll go into rush overdrive. Either way,something tells me he doesn't want to do this for the rest of his life
>>134553830
How the hell were they there to portray Guts recovery? Also I get that there needs to be a mini-boss, that doesn't mean the mini-boss he used wasn't shitty.
>>134554256
Ganishka fight ended in 34. 35 opens with a Falconia chapter but that's hardly a representation of what the volume primarily covers.
I don't understand why everyone is doubting the 4 volumes figure, it takes all of two seconds to look up chapters/volumes.
>>134554367
>I think Miura will split the party soon
I kind of hope so honestly. It's getting hard to stomach. It's not completely irredeemable, yet, but I don't think he has it in him and it's probably just going to be another 5 years of pointless shit if he does continue. I'd rather just be done with it and not have to think about it anymore before it gets to the point where the new chapters are so bad it actually begins to cloud and outnumber how great the chapters used to be.
>>134554422
>>134554348
Don't listen to this anon, who wants to read some faggy pictures right?Just watch the movies and read the quick summary of the rest on the wiki, nothing is important past the movies anyways
>>134554586
>seeing skull knight animated was one of my dreams
>it happened and looks like this
>>134554563
>Ganishka fight ended in 34. 35 opens with a Falconia chapter but that's hardly a representation of what the volume primarily covers.
>Sea god dies at the beginning of vol 37
Can you count? Its 2 volumes with the addition of 5 more chapters
>>134546335
>Overused "Europe in the Middle Ages" fantasy setting
Overused when exactly? The era that Berserk was first serialized in was overusing the space genre if anything.
>>134554740
At least based Otsuka was the VA
I love original Berserk, and I still like it a lot, but sure had a sad turn around. Golden Age was almost perfect, the best Berserk has to offer: great storyline, the art was improving a lot, and the ending delivered exactly what everyone expected, but better.
Today what we have is some sort of shitty RPG. I don't mind the new characters, some sure are great, but others are just either pointlessly or for comic relief. I feel sick every time Puck shows up, nothing got me harder in Berserk than his death, Miura completely destroyed his character. What was a great, new side in the beginning of the story, became some comic relief, useless waste of panels.
The new art also bugs me. The original characters were simple and great, no big, cute eyes killing any sort of expression. When Griffith first showed up in his new body, the art on him was perfect, really looked like he wasn't human, because his facial features hardly fit with other characters in that time. Now if you pay some attention, the effect is completely lost, since everyone shares the exact same features.
I'm not and edgefag, I really like new Guts, but if that's the price, I'll take back the old one right away.
It's unfair to judge a work when it's unfinished, but so far its amazing, best manga I've ever read
Anyone else hyped for Rickert's party?
It's more interesting than Guts's party at the moment, that ambush they set up was super cool.
>>134551305
Your taste is too refined from the rest of this board anon
>>134554752
Ganishka is done and over in 34.
Yes, I can count:
35 - 1
36 - 2
37 - 3
38 - 4
I don't care when sea god was over, I'm talking about volumes with little to zero plot development or anything interesting happening. 38 isn't out yet but there are 9 chapters which is the standard for a volume so I'm preemptively counting it. But I suppose if it makes you feel better, I could rephrase as there has been 3 volumes and 8 chapters of nothing happening (minus one chapter for Falconia in vol 35).
>>134555046
His taste in super popular classics? Hardly.
>>134555111
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
>>134554804
> nothing got me harder in Berserk than his death
Wow thanks for the spoiler.
>>134555342
He means his character being ruined, Puck doesn't die. Also if you haven't read it and are in a thread discussing it why the fuck are you worried about spoilers?
>>134545403
It's pretty great.
>>134546847
This.
