What's the worst trope about Harem anime?
The MC is always a faggot.
Violent tsundere bitches winning instead of best girl.
>>134447245
This
>>134447213
You don't know what a harem anime is if you think Fate is one.
Everything about the harem genre is cancerous and shit.
>>134447213
Going absolutely nowhere for a huge chunk of time.
>>134447292
/thread
>>134447213
is this scene from UBW?
>>134447245
>trip
Go away.
>>134447213
>not having a harem end
>>134447278
I cant tell if this is sarcasm.
>who is rin
>who is saber
>who is illya
>who is sakura
>who is best sensei.
>>134447213
>girl needs help
>mc help her like a normal human being would
>girl falls in love because of his kindness implying the rest of the world is filled with assholes
this always makes me chuckle
>>134448001
Nothing more than useless window dressing. There's only one who actually matters.
>>134448001
Hey man I don't think Kuzuki was gay for the Shirou
>>134447213
MC is denser than a neutron star
I know this is a necessary trope because otherwise he'd just get his dick wet episode 2, but it still ruins all harems because it's infuriating watching him cockblock himself 5 times per episode
>>134448473
I don't see a problem with that. A harem show where the MC canonically fucked every girl would actually be an interesting change of pace.
>>134447213
Some really flimsy reason that causes the girl to instantly fall in love with the mc and be eternally devoted. Like giving her a handkerchief or bandaging a scrapped knee or other retarded shit like that.
>>134448557
It would happened sooner if School Days never existed, all those anti-harem end fags thump that shit like the bible
Girls are generally copy pasted archetypes with rehashed archetypes for the sole purpose of merchandising, and are put in situations we've seen hundreds of times already just to make them blush over the MC.
>>134448473
Actually becoming pretty rare now a days.
I always get annoyed about the lack of serious romantic rivals in pretty much all harem series.
Like, does every male character other than the lead have to be like Sunohara?
Let's see:
The cookie cutter mix-and-match girl "types" who spastically act like no actual human being does?
The paint-by-numbers "every girl gets her own story arc" plot?
The absurdity of the world being in imminent danger but all that matters is which girl will "win" the faggot MC?
Sorry, /a/. I just can't decide.
The genre itself is silly (though MCs having a harem is pretty much the norm these days).
Harem would work well in a parody, since you could have this average Joe attracting all these hot babes like it's no one business, precisely because it would be poking humour at a situation that would never actually happen.
However, as harem is pretty much a norm these days, and not a matter of satire, you end up with a formula that's been overdone far too many times, to the point the harem itself doesn't matter anymore, since all the audience cares about is seeing as many cute girls as they can, rather than any particular interaction between the MC and his love interests.
From what I can tell, harems these days are just there for sales. The more girls there are, the higher the chances a series has to get attention, and thus there's potential high sales.
However, as far as the plot goes, the MC has a established love interest, which is played pretty much straight and the rest of the girls will be there to add some spice, but that's pretty much it.
The girls, though enjoyable because they're cute and good looking, have become worse over time as members of the harem. Back in the day, they would have taken some time falling for the MC, these days they became all wet, ready to fuck, for the guy in almost no time.
The biggest issue with harems though, in my opinion, is the MC himself. Whilst there are some exceptions, they're usually shitty characters and fail to justify their circumstances. They're this average or below-average kid, with not particularly charming points, who isn't physically attractive and is pretty much uninteresting.
The worst part though is that their dynamics with their harems are usually terrible, if there are any dynamics at all. Most dynamics come down to the MC being a pure-pure boy and accidentally running into some perverted situations with the girls, and acting in the most stupid ways.
tl:dr harems as shit, A SHIT
>>134448557
High school dxd went that route. So did underwater ray romano.
>>134449218
How is Underwater Rey Romano? I played the game so I never bothered watching the show.
>>134448925
>The more girls there are, the higher the chances a series has to get attention, and thus there's potential high sales.
I'm pretty sure this is why there are so many slice of life series now. A SoL is essentially a harem without a man to get in the way.
>>134449315
The first season is passable, but the first game is better. I tried to get into the second season of the anime, but I just couldn't. The personality of the new main character is really annoying and the show does not do a good job justifying why everyone gives the main character special status.
>>134449218
>So did underwater ray romano
maybe off screen or ingame but in the anime it didn't imply that
>>134449315
I quite liked 1st season, game was fun as well.
>>134449418
Like this guy said however, 2nd is shit.
>>134447213
Where the MC is a beta of the highest degree and is basically a personalityless doll who's life is governed by the females around him.
Also when there's a tiny portion of fighting and the MC gets his ass handed EVERY time and a girl have to save him. That shit ruins it
every girl likes MC because:
>"he's nice"
>he helped them one time
>he's the MC
All of the above is equivalent to "no good reason".
>>134449763
That's why i i like the "he is god" trope. It makes sense people like that would have a harem.
>>134447213
Its existence.
>>134447213
>Girls always like the MC for no reason at all
>MC won't decide about one fucking girl.
>>134449805
Gilgamesh harem show when?
>>134449805
To be fair, being strong is as much of a bad excuse for having girls (genuinely) falling for a character, as just being a nice guy.
The problem isn't a MC not being "alpha" but them having shitty personalities, and being crap at having meaningful and fun interactions with the members of his harem.
A character being capable at whatever it is relevant in the series is a cool plus, but the most important deal is his personality. The character should make you feel it makes sense so many girls are falling for him, be it because he's funny (not as in lol so randumb, or HE'S A PERV XD, but a fun person to have around), intelligent, good with words, good looking, and whatever other traits that would make a person attractive to most people.
>>134449966
Gil is gay for enkindu.
>>134449992
But how can otakus self-insert into a character who's everything thry are not?
>>134448001
>if I list multiple female characters that means it's a harem
Are you dense or something?
>>134447213
>the sudden disjunctive cutscene
this happens when two of his bitches are fighting over him and he can't even hear what they're saying because there are tits in both ears. And he's like "nyaaaaaaa" and suddenly it's 5 minutes later and they're walking around shopping.
>girl 1 grabbing girl 2's tits, girl 2 blushing
What the fuck? This is such an unacceptable thing to do that it should have happened in one anime once and not every fucking anime ever
>MC walks in on girl in pantsu and she breaks his nose
3 episodes later she's purposefully trying to get him to see him in lingerie by forcing him to go shopping(and rubbing her tits on his arm while they walk around), then makes it like "This is your reward for saving my life and helping me pass college entrance exams... b-b--but it's not like I l-l-like you, baka!"
>The fucking imouto
brocon isn't funny when she's all forward and unashamed about it. It should be a dirty little secret as a little sister comes to terms with her blossoming sexuality, not something where she outright asks the brother to have sex, or tells his alternative girls that they're unworthy (especially by making fun of their huge tits)
>the trope where it substitutes for plot or action
I wonder how empty the animators feel after spending a few weeks drawing an episode where nothing happens and the girls actually experience negative character growth as they become one-dimensional idiots that the MC will never fuck. Ever. Ever ever ever.
>>134450083
Exactly! That's why most shitty storytellers will create an MC who has the personality of a dating sim character (the kind that only says "...") - the utter lack of personality lets insecure boys self-insert to make up for character deficiencies.
>>134447213
The older sister figure/sensei Christmas cake/lonely milf doesn't get to marry the MC or find happiness and exiles herself because she's not worthy. See: Usagi Drop, A Method to Make a Gentler World, Mahou Sensei Negima, Domestic GIrlfriend.
Seriously Japan. Stop this.
>>134448148
Works well if MC actually put huge dedication into it and/or risked his life, otherwise absolutely.
>>134447213
Top Three:
Dense MC
Girls falling for the MC simply because he was nice to them a few times
MC obviously being blessed by Aphrodite but fails to make full use of this blessing (if you know what i mean...)
>MC walks into bathroom and finds nude girl
>MC panics, slips and falls on girl
>Girls has an orgasm and then beats the MC.
Are there any harems that have better male characters get girls besides the MC?
>>134451068
It's pretty rare.
Negima, sorta
Jitsu wa watashi wa, kinda
Ranma 1/2, maybe
>>134451068
Beelzebub.
>>134447213
No harem end.
>>134447213
>What's the worst trope about Harem anime?
The vocal haters.
>>134447213
instead of being about a bunch of self-righteous weak characters, it should be about how to seal the deal and initiate sex with these different kinds of personalities
>>134447213
Childhood friend. They ALWAYS looks same and ALWAYS annoying as fuck
>>134449992
The problem is that often the girls' personalities will be as one dimensional as the MC's, save for their one characteristic, so there's really no good reason for them to fall in love at all, because they're all pieces of cardboard. To have an actually meaningful crush you would need to give them some unique personal trait, be it in their development or background, a reason for them to fall in love with that specific person; which you can't give because it would break the illusion of the perfect archetype and the self-insert.
>>134452231
>because they're all pieces of cardboard
Kek
Shirou only appears to be a piece of feces sodden cardboard. But if you dismiss all the outwardly obvious indications of your typical, horrendously badly written MC, his character concept is actually not bad, and is actually a kind of commentary on the usual trope.
>>134447213
the cake/sensei/older woman never EVER wins.
>>134451068
Does Nisekoi and Hayate no Gotoku count?
Reposting what I wrote in another thread:
The harem genre itself is flawed as that once one girl is chosen the harem ceases to exist and the story ends.
The core of the show is set in the transient phase between meeting a girl and entering a relationship with the girl.
This transient phase is focused on and it is artificially prolonged into a semi-permanent status by various means:
- Add several girls to make the decision seem harder.
- Make the MC as indecisive and obvlious as possible.
- Create a setting that has nothing to do with romance to have a story that overshadows the harem and is able to infinitely prolong the decision process to create as much content as possible.
This alone shows that it isn't easy to create a harem story that feels somehow natural and good.
There are also many different types of harem categorized by how they end:
1. MC ends up with one girl.
2. MC ends up with every girl.
3. MC ends up with no girl.
Obviously 2. is the best category, but 1. is the most common, it can be further subdivided:
a. The chosen girl is declared at the start or very early which makes the show more of a romance with harem elements.
b. The chosen girl is hinted at but the show pretends every girl had a fair chance while it's obvious she doesn't. Worst kind of harem show, IS is a prime example.
c. The chosen girl is genuinly undetermined and only emerges slowly over the course of the story. Tends to cause high amounts of butthurt.
MCs that are boring planks of wood with a phobia of women. Like I can get being a bit nervous if you're suddenly in an awkward situation with a girl but there's no need to cry and run out of the room if a girl wants you to touch her boob.
Girls throwing themselves at him anyways for flimsy reasons like being nice or petting a kitten once.
When absolutely every female in the series is attracted to the MC, and every other male is made to be a complete sexual non-threat.
School Days is the best Harem.
>MC is just a complete, nearly retarded level of uber betaness.
Why does Japan do this? It's no better than having a super macho, flawless, self-insert babe magnet be the MC.
>>134455927
They need to be turbo-beta so loser otaku can self insert, and so the plot never makes any significant advancements so the series can be drawn out for more sales.
>>134456044
>They need to be turbo-beta so loser otaku can self insert
Jesus. I'm pretty much as bad as they come, and I think this archetype is just the worst shit to have to watch. Things must be bad in Japan.
>>134456179
It's a completely different world dude.
Imagine like 15% of American males are hopeless betas who can barely talk to women. It's more like 50% in Japan.
Japanese chads must get endless pussy.
>>134456591
The girls aren't much different.
>>134456606
>They're so far down the rabbit hole they have female otaku
>mc is literally the only man whom women are attracted to and every other man is doomed to celibacy
On the other hand it's not really a harem if this doesn't happen. One of the reasons why toradora isn't a harem.
>>134456651
I bet you misuse lots of buzzwords don't you.
A: Female otaku have always existed
B: Otaku don't automatically have to be alone
C: You don't have to be an otaku to not want relationships
You're wrong about so many things in such a short post it's astounding
>>134447213
anons calling harem shows not harem
this trope happens EVERY time, it's not even funny anymore
>>134456651
that's actually her job
she works at a snuggle business where the girls snuggle on a futon with losers and says things like that to make herself seem relateable to them
>>134456696
Hm. You're right. That is wrong. I guess I more meant hikikomori. In the American sense of the current trend with socially isolated male shut-ins, which we don't have a specific word for, yet.
>>134456833
She said that while being interviewed by an american journalist though
>>134456864
why break character when you're being filmed? bad for business and it's obvious if you hear her tone of voice; only deluded otakus would actually feel like she was genuine.
>>134456934
Yeah ok bro, the countless reports and studies done about japans crisis of its young people, men and women, was all just a conspiracy to appeal to otaku. It's actually all just the men and women are bitches and whores and something about chads, all because you, random internet faggot, said so.
>>134456987
no, you said that.
I assessed that individual and came to a conclusion, you're just a close minded retard who has no critical ability
>>134456987
kek
>>134457037
>Man I'm just so goddamn smart I know everything. You however are clearly an idiot who can't think.
Get over yourself. There's absolutely no reason besides your own bias and desire to look down on people to believe she was lying.
>>134448470
Underrated post
>>134457088
you freaked out and tried throwing studies at me when I was simply judging a single person that is obviously lying. this chick sleeps with fat and ugly nerds for money, of course she's fucking lying lol
calm down and use critical thinking for once
>>134448470
kek
>>134457177
>lol
>u mad
>muh critical thinking
And no before you even try, that greentext wasn't to condemn the usage of critical thinking, its to condemn how you just throw the term around to make yourself feel like everything you assume is automatically right and anyone who disagrees is just not thinking.
>Hey the moon is actually made of cheese
>No it's not
>lol of course it is im right you just can't use critical thinking like me
That's how you argue.
>>134456838
We call them degenerates
>>134457312
Forced lesbian character
>>134447213
having wormsluts in it
>>134448001
And a whopping one of them had any romantic interest in him. 2 if you count Sakura, but she was irrelevant.
Saber's the only love interest in Fate. Only Rin has a harem in UBW. HF is the closest to a harem Shirou gets, and he still has a dedicated waifu and one girl (Rin) that's still just crushing on him, and that's it.
Unless you're talking about F/HA, Fate is not a harem series/story.
>>134449218
Last I checked he hasn't actually fucked any of them.
>>134452503
He's a great character.
Every trait he has that fits a trope is genuinely due to his history as a character, not as "we need him to be X for self-insert." Everything from his terrible social skills to his shounen heroism.
>>134448470
I don't know, we never see where exactly Kuzuki is trying to fist him in the VN.
>>134448750
That's uncommon because 90% of the time, all it brings is rage, salt, and "hurry up, we know the rival is going to lose, cut this forced drama bullshit please."
Because romantic rivals really are just forced drama.
>>134447213
No jealousy, real women are possessive as all fuck, but kind of grateful 2D territory doesn't turn characters into bitches.
>>134460550
I bet you also think Shirou isn't a self-insert character.
Only one girl winning.
>>134455419
>The harem genre itself is flawed as that once one girl is chosen the harem ceases to exist and the story ends.
please. even if there is a clear winner the most of the girls still stay in orbit. hell, by the end they might all be living in the same house.
>>134448001
Even Fate/Zero is a harem at heart, just look at Kiritsugu's inner most circle of connections.
>Iri the waifu
>Maiya the mistress
>Saber the action girl
>Illya the loli daughter
>Shirley the childhood friend
>Natalia the literal semen demon cake
Childhood friends thinking they have a head start.
>>134461515
Yeah, since a normal person would self-incert into a sociopathic, broken, sucidal, and sad excuse of a human being, right?
Just becuause he's around cute girls, right?
>>134463303
I think the fire is an excuse for the fact MC in haremshit have no personality. They throw in this deus ex machina to represent "I have no personality but I like girls and want them to notice me"
Same haremshit, different day
>>134464050
>Shirou
>no personality
>>134447245
Yes, you have hit the jackpot
>>134447328
That is most relationships in anime>>134447328
>>134464050
>Deus ex machina
>Haremshit
>no personality
If you need to relay on buzzwords just like a youtube kiddie to support your arguments, at least learn how to use them properly.
>>134450186
Trued FSN is a porn game with multiple routes and he only fucks one person in every route. Unless you count Zouken since he was inside Sakura while they fucked it could count as threesome.
>>134450959
Accelerator handled that scene brilliantly.
>>134447213
Dense MC who doesn't even realize the girls want his cock.
Second worst are MCs who know who is in his harem, and that they want his cock, but is too fucking beta to do anything about it, not even pick one until the last minute for reasons.
3rd worst are MCs who know that his harem wants his cock, but doesn't do a thing about it because of the author finding means to cockblock him with stupid forced interruptions.
I'm not asking for a harem eroge; but at least a series where the MC does sleep around with his harem casually, then work the relationship issues and drama around that as the author does one of 3 things:
- Shrinks the harem down to 1 girl as the wife (while the other girls move on)
- Shrinks the harem down to 1 girl as the wife and some or all of the others as occasional mistresses (like that one doujin where a shy megane and her rival in love both stayed loyal to the MC, but megane won the rights to be the wife while her rival is a regular mistress)
- Or works towards a proper Harem Time-level end (with all the girls getting pregnant at one point or another).
>There's a "main girl" who's victory is assured from the first episode.
Seriously, why even bother?
The noble ponytail hime.
>>134448001
>who is best sensei.
>NO ROUTE
>>134465407
>a series where the MC does sleep around with his harem casually
>not asking for a harem eroge
Outside of an eroge adaptation, this is pretty much not happening.
>>134450083
An fat greasy bitter otaku would make a more interesting character than Mr just-a-regular-Japanese-highschool-boy-who-lives-by-himself-because-his-parents-work abroad.
>>134466101
i don't want to look at ugly thanks
>>134467675
but unlike dogs one has always something nice to look at, even the contestants that you didn't bet on.
>>134465684
I thought Saber was going to win in UBW
Harem anime is the Twilight for dudes.
Twilight: Hot immortal and dangerous vampire lusts after annoying, boring, plain jane that makes her feel special.
Harem anime: Hot women throw themselves at spineless whimp because "omg he's so kind". Kind being another word for boring as fuck.
>>134447292
This.
The guy never fucks any of them. Really now why would a man surround himself with 7 sluts who all want his cock and not fuck them. Shit most of the time they make his life worse.
Post top 5 Fate characters and I'll judge them:
1. Emiya Shirou
2. Redman
3. Saber
4. Kotomine Kirei
5. Illya
>>134447213
not enough harem endings.
>>134447213
That the best girl doesn't win, or, at the very least, get an episode to herself.
Also, Taiga is best girl.
It seems you lot need to be reminded that Fate/Stay Night is a gateway eroge of the worst kind. It's a bad game, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive powerlevel faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the VN itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.
However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the Noble Phantasms, ridiculous, color-coded clothes, the whole Servant faggotry and everything about the Fate/Stay Night world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on the NATURE of HEROISM, and overall chuuni tone of the VN makes it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.
Fate/Stay Night is basically THE franchise to attract the most hated fanbase known to /a/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this franchise and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Fate/Stay Night threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.
>>134470660
thanks
>>134471835
1.Kirei
Rest is shit.
None of the girls have a personality
>>134472023
the bait is weak with this one
>>134472023
Fate/stay night is an aesthetic experience. I can't tap into your nervous system and make you see what I see, but I can try to explain the soaring heights Fate/stay night sent the show-going public to.
Citing sources is a pedantic exercise. And besides, this is a forum for those to kick back and appreciate great art: a bit like a gentleman's club in centuries past. Here we chomp our cigars and wax poetic about the great works and the unanswerable questions.
I must say that you (a non-believer) have made a pariah of yourself at this club. What is instantly evident to us (those who have mastered Nasu's epos) isn't something you grasp. It's an exercise on futility to educate on the whys and wherefores of great art. Suffice it to say you have proven yourself a dunce among gentlemen. I consider my point carried and Fate again redeemed.
That may sound like a hominem as populum, but so is telling a schizophrenic man he isn't really seeing ghosts. When the entire community of learned anime connoisseurs clearly sees a work of genius, it's an act of insane vanity to attack it.
Fate and Nasu are simply beyond you. I wish I could help you, but I fear there's no fixing stupid.
Dancing atop this fathomless ocean of meaning is Nasu's story. It revels in all that lies beneath, but only suggests... Only hints. He leaves it to you to draw the myriad connections he's put in the story.
But this requires, you see, some understanding of history, science, imperialism, philosophy, theology, astronomy, and anthropology.
Fuyuki City is simply too grand a creation for some to come to terms with. Maybe one day you'll grow up enough to "get" it. I've seen it about 15 times and I'm still learning.
>>134471835
1. Tohsaka Rin
2. Rin Tohsaka
3. Tousaka Rin
4. Toosaka Rin
5. Taiga
Fate is shit, and not because it's harem. Main girls are pretty unappealing too.
There's good harem. Usually they focus more on the action or comedy than on the romance part of things.
Even if it's generic, it doesn't depends on tropes or shit, but on the author ability.
>>134473761
this tbqh
>>134448001
Reminder that Luvia is best girl
>>134473761
>>134474334
This is why I hate fatefags.
>>134447245
Akatsuki was basedeven if anime was shit
The problem I have isn't so much that the MC is a wimp but the fact is he's supposed to be seen as some kind of especially kind person when said kindness amounts to basic manners
The hero doesn't do anything especially nice beyond behave like a normal decent member of society
>>134460571
U srs mate?
>>134447245
>>134447264
These two. Last haremshit I read was Love Hina more than a decade ago. Completely soured me to the entire genre.
![Utawarerumono - Itsuwari no Kamen - 01 [720p].mkv_snapshot_15.53_[2015.10.05_04.27.00].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eGcmVhs.jpg "Utawarerumono - Itsuwari no Kamen - 01 [720p].mkv_snapshot_15.53_[2015.10.05_04.27.00].jpg")
>>134449498
>>134449418
Those are some pretty terrible opinions, I think.
There being a main/first/cover girl. It writes itself as a bad romance instead of taking the genre strong point that is the competition and instead it makes a long and pathetic ride of "girl x" episodes that actually have no chance to win or if the writer does have the balls of having her win, it feels unfulfilling because the main bitch had more development because she had more focus through the series.
Harems should not have main girls, they should make use of it's main characteristic and give an equal chance for all girls and actually have a fight instead of having one competitor steamroll the others. I want to be at the edge of my desk at the final chapters to know who will win instead of being on the first chapter/episode and knowing the poster girl will win.
It's why a lot of people think "best girl never wins" along with some other reasons. People like to root for the underdog.
>>134474417
Best girl.
I want to be assaulted by pure mass.
>Series is 12/13 episodes
>the main cast isn't even fully introduced till episode 7 or 8
>>134475560
>monmusu
>best girl isn't even revealed until the last episode
>>134475560
That's more of a problem with LNs in general. First few volumes are often mostly introduction, but that's about all you can adapt when you only get 1 cour.
>>134464817
I thought games with routes for every heroine like Fate or Clannad were called harems. Harem end isn't a requirement, right? The only thing you need is a lot of girls lusting after the same guy.
>>134475198
This. Might actually watch a harem show or two if this happened more regularly
