Did Vegeta ever come to the realization that he would never be as strong as Goku?
Yeah at the end of DBZ. Apparently they decided to retcon it in super.
He did, but Toriyama needed money, so he's back to his old self. Maybe even worse now.
>>133995801
only in super. He's a lot more mellow in the movies which toryiama actually worked on
>>133995698
I'm ok with that. Their rivalry is kind of needed still now that the show got revived.
there was an entire monologue about it
>Vegeta gets the Super Cyan powerup before Goku
>Proceeds to kick the absolute shit out of Goku in training
>Now nobody can stop him from gathering the Dragonballs and wishing for immortality
>Finds out a wish was made recently on Earth
>Goes to New Namek for Rampage Part 2
>Goku races to stop him, but gets word that Freeza is en route to Earth
>Goku has to give up Vegeta and head to Earth
>Vegeta later makes a kickass entrance and the uncertainty of whether Vegeta is immortal/evil now adds that much more weight to Freeza's offer to rejoin him.
>Kills Freeza like he should have originally, no timefaggotry needed.
>Because the big fight is now, Super Cyan Goku v Super Cyan Vegeta
>Goku wins when Vegeta lets his guard down after seeing Bulma and Trunks' horrified expressions, worried that Vegeta could be evil again
>Whis notices this
>While Vegeta is unconscious in a good ol' fashioned healing pod, other characters make snide remarks about the issue of having an immortal saiyan running around, and what to do about it
>Vegeta flashback to Namek, making a wish on Porunga.
>Village of Namekians watch in awe as Vegeta, conflicted, decides what to use his wishes on.
>Asks if it's possible to bring back Planet Vegeta and everyone who died in Freeza's initial invasion
>Porunga says yes
>Asks if it's possible that he could be immortal, and reign as King of all Saiyans
>Porunga says that's also possible
>Vegeta thinks on it, then 180s on his wishes.
>Ends up his first two wishes are for the benefit of his and Goku's families. Good health and long lives and what not. Nothing for himself.
>Third wish is to be teleported back to Earth to help stop Freeza
>He never, ever, ever admits to it or tells anyone what his wishes were.
Since that's not happening, here's hoping the Universe 6 saga actually has character development.
>>133996913
this isn't where you put your fan fiction
>>133995394
Didn't alcohol-sama say that Vegeta had more potential power, he just never accesses it because he's too busy being petty and jobbing? And how come they never abuse Zenkai to become stronger?
>>133997581
He said Vegeta has a chip on his shoulder and is so strung-out all the time that it limits his skills.
Vegeta has been stronger than Goku several times since Goku first surpassed him.
I shouldn't have to name all of those times if you're familiar with the series.
Also, while I can't confirm this, I think it was said that Vegeta is actually slightly stronger than Goku at the moment.
The fact that Vegeta is currently around Goku's level, the fact that his SSJ2 berserk mode outperformed Goku's SSJ3, the fact that Vegeta was born with a far greater power level than Goku, and the fact that Vegeta is always able to catch up to Goku,
all tell me that no, Vegeta is not in Goku's shadow, and that yes, Vegeta has roughly the same potential as Goku, if not more.
That said, Goku might in fact have more potential; but the fact is, they push each other toward infinity, meaning neither is truly stronger than the other in the grand scheme of things. They can both reach any power level.
>>133996913
This is great.
>>133998927
>Vegeta has been stronger than Goku several times since Goku first surpassed him.
Let's see, the first time they fight and the battle against the androids. That's it.
Several my ass.
>The fact that Vegeta is currently around Goku's level
He isn't.
> the fact that his SSJ2 berserk mode outperformed Goku's SSJ3
It didn't.
> the fact that Vegeta was born with a far greater power level than Goku
So did Nappa and Raditz. Both are dead.
>Vegeta is always able to catch up to Goku
DBZ proved you wrong. BoG too.
Vegeta is the jobber character and forever will be, he's the successor of early Piccolo.
>>133995394
But he has been stronger than Goku on multiple occasions?
Not him, but
>>134000403
>Let's see, the first time they fight and the battle against the androids. That's it.
What about when Vegeta fought Freeza and Goku wasn't yet healed?
>He isn't.
They seemed to be equally fast when they had to carry those blocks Whiz gave them. When they fight they appear to be on about an equal level. See for example that punch that surprised Whiz in the last episode.
> It didn't.
Except that Beerus himself stated that and he fought both.
>DBZ proved you wrong. BoG too.
Do you understand what catch up means? Most of the time Goku is stronger, but there's always a time when Vegeta reaches his level again. He's basically the only side character from Z left who's still relevant in terms of power (aside from Satan obviously).
>>134000403
>That's it.
When he got out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to fight Cell
Their first fight
After Whis has been training him for a couple months
>>133995394
Yeah, at the tail end of the Buu arc.
>>133998927
>Vegeta has been stronger than Goku several times since Goku first surpassed him
Goku is indeed superior to Vegeta, but Vegeta manages to surpass him sometimes because he welcomes rage, which is the main source of raw saiyan power, while Goku keeps a cool head and doesnt give a shit if everything explodes or not.
Basically Vegeta has been a true warrior his whole life while Goku is an overpowered jerk. Sometimes one is better than the other.
I wonder how mad would Gokufags be if DBS ended with Vegeta surpassing Goku and defeating the final boss.
>>133996913
>>Ends up his first two wishes are for the benefit of his and Goku's families. Good health and long lives and what not. Nothing for himself.
>>Third wish is to be teleported back to Earth to help stop Freeza
>>He never, ever, ever admits to it or tells anyone what his wishes were.
Real hero. Real human bean.
>>133995698
he was death on that moment, now that he is alive again none of that mattered.
>>133995394
He knows it ever since the end of Cell saga. He just can't accept the damn status quo.
Even in DBSuper, he actually acknowledged that Goku is better than him (several times even)
>>133995698
>retcon
>>133996762
>Their rivalry
It's not even a rivalry anymore. It's Goku chasing after Beerus and Whis, while Vegeta chases after Goku, stating he's going to challenge Beerus, while Goku ignores him.
>>133995394
Yeah when when he got defeated by kid buu
>>134004504
>>It's not even a rivalry anymore. It's Goku chasing after Beerus and Whis, while Vegeta chases after Goku, stating he's going to challenge Beerus, while Goku ignores him.
This.
Vegeta and Goku might as well be best friends now (which seems to be what Toriyama and Toei are pushing with RoF) with how they're holding hands and finishing off each-other's battles.
>>134004866
That's the only way their shit was destined to be and you know it. Vegeta's gentrification is complete.
>>134005434
People should be thankful he hung in there for as long as he did. Yamcha became a complete joke right after he beat hungry Goku, Krillin was more of a buddy after he stopped being such an asshole and both Tien and Piccolo started becoming irrelevant as people who could challenge Goku during the Saiyan saga.
So niggas gonna pretend Goku didn't just say Vegeta was stronger than him 2 weeks ago?
>>134004866
Gogeta beeing canon is slowly approaching. Eventually they will have to fuse when shit hits the fan at the incoming tournament.
>>134004097
It is a retcon though. In fact, DBZ has so many retcons, pretty much in every arc. I mean, Master Roshi is apparently stronger than Nappa now. Think about how stupid that sounds if it's NOT a retcon of Nappa's power.
>>134005654
No, it was Yamcha's long period of doing mostly nothing that made him a joke.
Back in Dragonball, he was "the bar". If someone was beating him up, that meant that they were serious fucking business, and only someone exceptionally strong could beat them.
The trouble is that we never see him do enough fighting. Add that his best fights are him getting his leg broken and/or dying, then we have a problem. Him staying dead for an entire saga, and coming back to the series in 'must be saiyan to fight" fucked him over for good.
>>134002694
Is Vegeta a warboy ????
>He lives, he dies, he lives again
>>134006148
Isn't it possible that Roshi did off-screen training? Nappa was crazy strong when he was introduced, but in the big picture he's pretty weak shit.
>>133995698
he gave up because he realized Goku was a genius at coming up with maverick training techniques that put him ahead of the game. But now god ki's in the picture, he has a chance again; personally I'm looking forward to seeing Akira "over 9000 pissed off fanboys and counting" Toriyama make Vegeta fight the main threat and win. And I don't mean making Vegeta finish off a weakened big bad like he did with Freeza.
>>133995698
That's not quite what he was talking about.He was saying that he's finally figured out WHY Goku is stronger than him. The monologue was more about him finally understanding his rival and why he was continuously stronger more than him realizing that he'll never surpass his rival.
>>134006463
So roshi, a man with a power level of 300ish after 300 years of training suddenly surpassed nappa, who was at 4000 in like a decade time? Sounds real believable senpai
>>133998927
>Vegeta has been stronger than Goku several times since Goku first surpassed him.
After becoming a SSJ the only time Vegeta was stronger than Goku was the day after training in the time chamber with Trunks. The next day Goku and Gohan left the chamber and Vegeta was frustrated as fuck because he knew Goku was again stronger than him.
After that Goku was always superior to vegeta.
>>134008285
All the Z warriors xpent 3 years training before the Androids arrived. Krillin said he was going to train at Roshi's so it's not hard to believe Roshi trained.
>>134008468
Its not that Goku was just inherently superior to Vegeta by virtue of being Goku. He was stronger than Vegeta because Goku's fights have always been quality, whereas Vegeta's fights have been quanitity. When Vegeta worked for Freeza, he didn't target the strongest bings in the cosmos, but rather the beings whose planets had resources Freeza wanted. Goku constantly fought *people who were twice or thrice as strong as he was, barely managing to survive after each confrontation (also benefiting from Zenkai boost). Goku also learnt from opponents he beat, which rou-*nded his sk+i-lls as a fighter, whereas Vegeta never learned techniques that would conserve or multiply his energy and create illusions
>>134009319
Yeah. Vegeta is all strenght and power. Just look how many Ki attacks he does on every fight (he loves spamming millions of ki blasts), Goku, on the other hand, mastered the art of fighting. He fights controlling his ki, trying melee combos and tricking his enemy.
Vegeta has the potential to be stronger than Goku but he's just all muscle and no brain. Remember how Goku surpassed him after the time chamber just by making his SSJ form his normal state...gosh, Vegeta trained the 365 days he had to full while Goku wasted at least 3 months turning Gohan into a SSJ and then training him to become as strong as himself just to begin his own training.
>>134009452
Yeah, Vegeta loves throwing his energy away. Note that after he began emulating Goku and fought people stronger than him, he saw drastic improvement (mostly due to zenkai boost). The guy writing the Dragonball Super comic has done a good job showing vegeta's growth; in the latest chapter, he fights very evenly with Goku before losing his cool. He'll best Goku one of these days, especially now he knows Gokus weakness
>>134009586
>That moment when Goku began the teleport spam and Vegeta was mad as fuck because he couldn't catch him
Those little things are why I like DBS. Goku and Vegeta moments are pure gold.
>>133995394
Yes he did, but that doesn't mean he won't train anymore.
>>134007569
>I'm looking forward to seeing Akira Toriyama make Vegeta fight the main threat and win.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>134009764
Vegeta fought ALL the main villains of Z.
Freezer
>He got rekt
Androids
>A17: We don't wanna fight pal, we only want Son Gok....
>Vegie: "I don't care!! I'll kill u!!!"
>And he got rekt by A18
Cell
>"Oh you think you will be stronger than me if you absorb A18?? Go on!! Absorb her!!" And got rekt
Buu
>"I'll fight Kakarot, beat him and after that I'll beat the super stronk bubblegum monster that I helped to revive". And got rekt.
Vegeta fighting a main villain and getting rekt is a Dragon Ball meme.
>>134009764
It might happen, actually. Theres a new guy writing and he might be fed up with Goku cockworshipping. You guys always say Nips will riot if Goku doesn't always fight and beat the main threat, but this is Dragonball. Do you seriously think they'll drop it if Vegeta, who at this point is the story's second main character, beats the main threat for once? Even if they do, they'll deserve it for being such cockgobblers
>>134009319
>>134009452
>>134009586
You could say in a way Goku and Vegeta are two halves of the same coin. Vegeta harnesses his Saiyan Rage which allows him to utelize a lot of power and instict, while at the same time making him vulnerable to becoming frustrated and weak when a plain old frontal assult doesn't work.
Goku on the other hand was trained to be serene. He doesn't waste any extra energy and tries to use up just enough to stay equal with his opponent, even to the point where he'd hold back against opponents like Freeza and Beerus since they're holding back against him. Unlike Vegeta it allows for a lot more strategies but also leaves him open if he's caught off guard or underestimates the strength of an attack.
>>134009931
Even Toriyama himself says he'd like to write a story with Vegeta winning. I honestly feel like he was going to do it with RoF and pussed out at the last minute.
>>134010100
it would be amazing because Vegeta winning would entail some character growth from him. At the moment he's built up to be a character who just doesn't have what it takes to win big fights, so they could develop his character a little bit and allow him to grow out of his self-sabotage.
>>133995394
>manlets
>ever learning
Pick one.
>>133995394
Not quite.
Vegeta comes to the realization that Goku will always keep on getting stronger and stronger. No matter how strong Vegeta gets, Goku will just keep on growing because that's just who Goku is.
That won't ever stop Vegeta from chasing him though.
Is Vegeta the dbz character with the most depth?
>>134010997
It is one of the few that actually got some development so maybe.
>>134008285
That makes perfect sense within DB
Took Goku 6 years to go from like 100 to 400, and also 6 DAYS to go from 8,000 to 90,000
>>133995394
why do you think he setled down on earth and fucked bulma?
>>134012623
Powerlevels are bullshit
>>133995698
They didn't retcon shit, pay attention.
>>134015171
Yup
>>134015171
Funny thing is the way the fanbase treats the published power level readings like absolute truth when one of the very first things Toriyama did when the scouter was introduced was prove that you can't trust the power level reading alone to settle the outcome of the battle.
>>134000948
>Except that Beerus himself stated that and he fought both.
Beerus said the fighting against Vegeta was more fun, he never said he was stronger.
Blame the retarded subs.
>>134015756
Prove this.
>>133995394
By the end of DBZ he realized that, but now they retconned that with Super. Vegeta now still wants to surpass Goku and as Blue Super Saiyans they're more or less even.
>>134015756
He also said it was the first time in a long while someone forced him to use 10% of his power.
>>134002093
Well, aside from the first time he went SS.
>>134006148
>It is a retcon though
No in the Buu saga Vegeta realized Goku was stronger but he didn't give trying to surpass him, see the final chapter.
>Master Roshi is apparently stronger than Nappa now
Nope, we have no way of knowing how strong Freeza's men are. so amusing they're stronger than Nappa is retarded. Even Freeza mention how they have gotten weaker.
>In fact, DBZ has so many retcons, pretty much in every arc.
Judging by your last two points most of those are likely you not understanding something.
>>134015523
Wouldn't it be number three? What about Gohan?
>>134017845
>No in the Buu saga Vegeta realized Goku was stronger but he didn't give trying to surpass him, see the final chapter.
Yeah but he was more reasonable about it in the manga and ?BoG
super and RoF have flanderized him a bit
Butthurt vegeta fags are hilarious.
Muh pride, muh rage "power up"
>>134018041
Think about this for a second.
Dabura = Perfect Cell without regeneration
Goku as a Super Sayian Full Power = Dabura = Perfect Cell without regeneration
Cell Saga Goku could probably beat Dabura with a Warp Kamehameha.
The problem?
Gohan didn't train SO MUCH that his SSJ2 was having problems with dabura.
Thats right
SSJ2
two
DOS
Gohan was weaker than full power SSJ1 Goku.
And that was not training for 7 years.
By the freiza movie gohan hadn't trained for what, 4?
>>134018882
What about Mystic Gohan? It was stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks.
>>134018882
>Cell Saga Goku beat Perfect Cell
Cell only went full power against SSJ2 Gohan. He was only about half for Goku. Full power Perfect Cell still couldn't beat SSJ2 Gohan until he became Super Perfect Cell.
>>134021167
He gave cell what would have been a mortal wound to a normal human being. The point being cell games goku could kill dabura due to this.
>>134021431
>kill Dabura
At full power? Cell wasn't going full power when that hit.
>>134021693
holding your power level back doesn't affect durability. That's why goku wasn't injuring frieza at all despite going toe to toe with him at the start of their fight.
>>134021167
And he still couldn't beat SSJ2 Gohan even when he became perfect Cell.
He only had a chance because manlet fucked it up and Gohan had to save his ass getting injured in the meantime. And he still lost
>>134022163
>holding your power level back doesn't affect durability.
It affects, otherwise Kuririn wouldn't have been able to blow a hole through Vegeta. Holding back power level doesn't affect -stamina-, which is why in spite of Goku fighting on par with Freeza his power wasn't dropping.
>>134022163
Holding back or lowering your Ki does reduce your strength and durability. This is why Son Goku can make two children with Chi Chi without breaking her or the bed.
>>134022613
Not really. The manga suggested that Super Perfect Cell was around SSJ2 Teen Gohan. They're equal enough.
