I'm the anon that was shitting all over Teppu last night.
>how could anyone like Ishido
>she's a total cunt and I dropped this shit on page 2
>characters don't need to go through arcs
>Cohen Brothers, etc etc.
Basically, the thread turned to shit and everyone dug in telling me to stop being a fag and read the rest of the manga. I marathoned it all day today.
When I got to this point, I was so fucking satisifed. I was reading this purely for the Schandenfreude. I wanted her to get her ass kicked. But during the fight there was flash backs to her and her brother.
>Oh awesome, back story
>Maybe this is why she's a bitch
>Maybe this is revenge on her brother's bully or something
No. The only thing that was shown is that her brother was picked on, she defended him, and he became a hermit. And after all is said in done, Ishido is still a conceited asshole who fights purely to shit on those happier then herself.
I have read this whole goddamn series and have come to the conclusion that while the fights are cool to see play out, I cannot enjoy reading about Ishido as the MC and still harbor my previous feelings of hate and loathing toward her.
My fears have come to past. I read this whole story and my initial assumption was correct. There is nothing redeemable by Ishido. The only consolation is that she loses to Bushy Brows in the end as God intended.
24 hours later he's still mad
>>133955076
Yes but this time I read the fucking manga and can stand by my initial assumption. How the fuck can anyone enjoy this shit?
>>133955007
Isn't this /u/shit?
Why would you even bother reading it?
>>133955147
I don't know how it was fucking marketed or whatever but yuri fags need not apply
>>133955007
While I'm somewhat neutral to the series as a whole, I agree on Ishido being fairly unlikeable. /a/, what do you see in her?
Literally shit series to people with no taste or no self esteem.
I should have listened to my gut and not read past page two.
>>133955380
I don't know but /a/ couldn't wait to suck her non existent cock last night.
>>133955007
She's a villain protagonist. If you don't like her, you don't like her.
In any other sports series, she'd be the weird strong antagonist the protagonist was always working toward beating.
Her past and motivations do not really justify her actions, they merely explain them.
Natsuo is a mean, not nice person. The only "nice" thing she intends to do now is beating the fuck out of Yuzuko to make her not a disturbing sociopath, and this is something we will never see.
>>133955476
>she's a villain protagonist
So what is the fucking appeal to reading this shit? To watch a mean person do mean things?
This is lending support to my "people who like Teppu have no self respect" view
>>133955476
The thing about villain protagonists is that they're often entertaining, either through being funny or charismatic. Teppu was fine but I didn't see anything interesting about the MC other than instances where the author was practically pointing at her and saying "look at her! she's a villain protag! she's saying the opposite of what a good guy would say!"
>>133955538
I don't really see how that makes sense.
The realm of fiction is boundless. It doesn't always have to be about the hero. What makes it interesting is seeing a strange person and following their story.
You can not like it, but there's no need to be a dick about it. It's not for you. You can read something, respect it, and not necessarily think "aw yeah, I'd do this to".
And lastly, there are things to admire about Natsuo. She's strong, she can be cute, she's overwhelmingly confident, and she has some bizarre quirks.
>>133955573
>The thing about villain protagonists is that they're often entertaining, either through being funny or charismatic.
No, that's just your preconception.
It doesn't have to be that way and never had to be. Even then, this is subjective, because obviously there are people who like Natsuo's character despite the bad things she does.
>>133955573
She would be interesting if she had SOME character development or went through a fucking arc of some sort.
But no, /a/ was all circlejerking over the fact that
>not all characters need arcs
Ishido is a bad character flat out and you should feel bad for reading Teppu.
>>133955106
I just wanted to see the MC get knocked down a notch. I still don't think I was satisfied.
>>133955604
>No, that's just your preconception.
That's why I said "often," not should. I didn't particularly feel anything toward Natsuo because there was nothing that interested me, but obviously it's all subjective.
>>133955728
She loses to Bushy Brows but in the most unsatisfying way.
>>133955633
>>not all characters need arcs
They don't. Why should they? Some of the best characters of all time are great because they are unwavering.
I think what makes Natsuo interesting is that her hyper talent has ruined almost all her relationships, and it's interesting seeing how she deals with that. From trying to be admirable, to just saying fuck it, to trying to actually TRY for once. That's all very interesting.
>>133955748
Well I don't even think it's often, though. But I can't speak with any definites on that, I haven't read/watched/played literally everything.
Can we talk about what the fuck is the story with her brother? Because that shit is never fully explained. Why is she so fucking pissed off about it to the point that she hates her brother?
>>133955785
They don't NEED arcs but it can make a shitty character more bearable to read about because they show development and could turn out to be less of a shithead.
A character like Natsuo needs an arc otherwise, why are you reading it? The fights? She isn't a compelling, sympathizing, or relatable character herself.
>>133955787
It IS fully explained.
>My brother is awesome, we bond over action movies, it's great.
>My brother is incapable of doing action movie shit I can naturally do. Fuck.
>Karate, maybe things will get betOH never mind, turns out my brother totally sucks.
>Let me repeat, my brother is awesome. I respect him a lot. So when he slaps me in the face because I'm better than him, I put on a face of weakness to satisfy him.
>But fuck, doing that kind of pisses me off. In revenge, I'll beat up his bullies and the girl who beat him, embarrassing him because seriously fuck you for being such a shit.
tl;dr it's love/hate She wants his acknowledgment, not his scorn.
>>133955842
>A character like Natsuo needs an arc
Evidently not since most people who have read this start to finish enjoyed her character or at least her story. It's a study of a violent, cocky, overconfident character with a bundle of issues, it's not a story about her getting over that, but an examination of what that all MEANS. Because really, not everyone is going to change, so we may as well take some time to try to understand the weirder weirdos.
>why are you reading it?
>I think what makes Natsuo interesting is that her hyper talent has ruined almost all her relationships, and it's interesting seeing how she deals with that. From trying to be admirable, to just saying fuck it, to trying to actually TRY for once. That's all very interesting.
>>133955871
She straight up states she hates her brother though.
>>133955966
She says a lot of things. She also cries because her brother says "Yeah, I came to your match", and then she dreams about watching movies with him and having fun..
>all this butthurt.
I Bet you want all mc's to be like moralfag battleshounen protagonists.
Wait..... is this her brother saying this TO her?
Have I read this whole thing wrong....?
>>133956304
No. She's basically saying it to everyone, including him..
>>133956355
I don't get it. Isn't SHE the one that has it all? The talent, height, etc?
>>133956387
The thing she doesn't have ishappiness.
Furthermore, the need to struggle, the desire to improve, the ability to be fucking average and have a normal fucking life: these are things Natsuo is incapable of. What has her talent gotten her aside from people hating her for easily doing what takes them ages to accomplish?
Her brother is capable of these things, but is a shithead. You could read this page as something he says, but seeing as she has a fantasy about "having it all" (that is, a normal life), I think that she's the one bitching here.
Could be both of them, though, and she's borrowing his words.
>>133955007
Ladies and gentlemen, the example of a successful bait, watch and learn.
>>133956387
>>133956471
ah, and one more thing: throughout that part of the chapter her narration is the floating text that's not in speech bubbles
So yeah, it's her.
Sorry about the page, I'm feeling lazy and this is what was quickest to grab.
>>133956471
See, here I thought the brother was bullied. Which would cause him to have these feelings. But it doesn't explain while Natsuo feels this way.
Also, it's annoying because it's easy to be talented and not act like a shit head because of it. Her issue isn't her talent, it's that her talent gives her and undeserved sense of haughtiness. I can't feel sympathetic to that.
>>133956604
The brother WAS bullied and thinks his sister is being a show off, that is the source of much of Natsuo's issues.
She wasn't showing off to begin with. She was being her normal. Her normal is way above average, but she is who she is. She was playing with her brother, and learning karate, and then her brother slaps her down and says "you're doing it wrong".
What she really wanted wasn't to be a show off, but she kind of got pushed into it by her brother's attitude. She played the part he so firmly believed she had been playing naturally, and eventually fell into it legitimately and with bitterness. It's something she complains about early on: how she IS better than everyone, everyone sucks, and it's boring and lame.
But secretly she'd rather be average and not have to deal with this at all.
I guess, basically, putting it simply she didn't go about things the right way, but she does have her reasons. I am not sure if you should feel sympathetic or not, though.
>>133955007
I have to admit, I'm impressed you actually went ahead and read it.
The reason I like Natsuo is because she's different from so many other generic sport MCs in that she's a complete bitch and doesn't pretend to be anything else, and others treat her appropriately. She's certainly not the kind of character I'd like to read about all the time, but after reading about someone use the power of friendship, or how the MC has no talent but trains extra hard, or some other generic thing for the nth time, it's somewhat cathartic to have someone approaching from the opposite direction.
That being said, I can understand why you don't like her, and I won't say you're wrong for thinking such things. I guess it's just a matter of different tastes.
>>133955233
Guys, not even the Onee-Sama's at /u/ think this is yuri. Because it's not. You would need goggles so thick they would knock you to the floor.
>>133955007
Isn't that the point? I thought it was supposed to be a sports manga from the point of view of the rival.
>>133956122
Why would you assume that lol
>>133956304
Yes, it is her brother who says this to her after she beat up the three bullies
Even with the absolute abortion-catastrophe of an ending, Shamo is 20x better to read than this trash
>>133955007
Are you really still mad that a protagonist can be an asshole while still being endearing?
>>133955007
>>133955633
are you perhaps that same anon who dislikes mushishi and therefore think everyone else should dislike it as well? you seem like that anon since you also seek attention, respond a lot and there was no need for you to say:
>I'm the anon that was shitting all over Teppu last night.
you could have just stayed anonymous if what you only wanted was to discuss Teppu and what other people think of it
also,
>>133955007
>007
Have to say I was disappointed as well. All those threads, all that discussion about what else might be behind it, how it wpuld develop. And we get fucking nothing. No reasonable explanstions, no development, no conclusion. Some pandering to waifufags and then it's over.
>>133955106
The same way people enjoy Revenge Classroom
I dropped Teppu because it took too long to update, but im glad to hear she lost to catterpilar brows, i liked her
>Character arcs
>Characters need development
>they have to be likeable to a certain degree
I haven't read teppu or w/e it's called but you guys should read more real books
>>133961256
Light novels aren't real books.
>>133961282
This is correct. Believe it or not, there's literature out there that's actually worth a damn.
>>133961324
I seem to recall Doestoyevsky being big on character arcs. That, what was it, Raskolnikov guy?
Anyway this is a fucking character-driven story, not plot-driven, nor does it illustrate any points or make any metaphors with the characters, which is what literature that features little or no character development does. Good literature, that is.
>>133955007
You don't have to like it senpai.
>being butthurt 24 hours later
>forcing yourself to read through something you hate
>being unable to accept that people find an unchanging asshole MC enjoyable
This is why autism awareness exists.
>>133955147
But they're both men.
>>133961256
I remember reading Don Juan where the main protagonist is the biggest asshole and gets killed by a deus ex machina.
