Why does this series hate visual storytelling so much?
Because it's not necessary.
>>133649695
Because it's an adaptation of visual novels?
>>133649695
It's not it's style.
>>133649732
*light novels
>>133649695
because the series relies on dialogue/puns.
>>133649767
>>133649732
That's not an excuse.
Can you think of other light novel adaptations (outside of Shaft shows, just to be safe) that will often cut to shots where full sentences the character's thoughts are literally written on screen.
>>133649864
That's more visual than just leaving those out
>>133649864
>>133649790 The plot emphasizes dialogue over other flashy things (what comes to mind is the technology and what not in Horizon)
The only other visual storytelling I can think of is fanservice and cat tats
>>133649695
I hate the phrase "visual storytelling".
Shaft's and Shinbo's style has always been a budget-driven one. Bakemonogatari aired in 2009 and before then, while having produced various anime titles, Shaft had never really had a big hit. Therefore their differentiation in the animation studio market was to produce anime with small budgets.
>>133649864
You already got all your answer
>>133649728
>>133649751
>>133649790
/thread
>>133650033
Why?
>>133649864
It's the Monogatari series. It's Nisio. There's not much "visual story" to tell in the first place. 80% of it is in dialogue and the characters' thoughs.
The visual stuff in the series, like Nadeko Medusa, Rainy Devil, and the events in the upcoming Kizu, are all done extremely well.
>>133650218
It always seems really vague, people who use it seem to value it to an immense degree that I just don't get, and a lot of the time it's just getting thrown around for blatant shitposting. It's also one of those terms that I suspect originated solely for the purpose of internet arguments, since I never hear or see anyone use it in normal contexts.
>It's a talking in the same room for the next 5 minutes over some flashy cut-aways scene
>>133650390
It just means storytelling through visuals, rather than dialog.
In a single word, Nisio.
>>133650280
I'm not saying there's never any visual stuff. That would be almost impossible, in any anime.
It's than 90% of the time the show will rather use its visuals to do wacky unimportant shit to keep you from getting bored by the dialogue and will use text to convey actual content.
To me that seems like an actual flaw worth acknowledging.
Those terms are over and misused, but I think style over substance and pretentious really do apply here.
>>133650523
Katanagatari.
>>133650541
>style over substance
I guess, but I'm not sure what substance you really expect.
>pretentious
No.
>>133649695
Crab is a loser. Everyone else is good.
>>133650541
Is there more value in visuals than conversations? Is there actually less substance in Monogatari's visuals than in other series? Are you just asking for it to be more of an action show?
>>133650649
What is ironic is that she won.
>>133650541
Style over substance of course, but calling it pretentious just because you can't appreciate it is on you.
First you've got Nisio, who relies heavily on wild dialogue to tell his story in the first place. On top of that, these stories being adapted by studio SHAFT, who love to use stylish visuals and New Wave-esque storytelling techniques in their works. Of course you're going to end up with something that's dense in style + dialogue, where the visuals are used less to describe action and more to convey the basic setting, mood, tone and atmosphere of the current dialogue. This doesn't mean it has any less worth than conventional storytelling.
>>133650541
>style over substance
Sure, sometimes.
>pretentious
Fuck off.
>>133649695
I disagree. There is plenty of visual storytelling going on.
Not that anime is really known for it's excessive use of visual storytelling.
>>133650753
>Is there more value in visuals than conversations?
The two can compliment each other.
> Is there actually less substance in Monogatari's visuals than in other series?
It feels more like the show is wasting good opportunities to put substance in its visuals most of the time by instead a slave to its stylishness.
>Are you just asking for it to be more of an action show?
That has nothing to do with action. You can have an episode with just two characters talking and put lots of things in the visuals and cinematography to convey more information or make the dialogue more effective.
>>133650541
Style IS substance in a visual medium, holy fuck are people really this stupid?
>>133650280
What is this from? I read the filename but I don't believe it.
>>133649695
Because budget hates it and most of the OG animators are probably working on Kizu. When the occasional visual storytelling comes up though it's pretty glorious.
>>133650927
>You can have an episode with just two characters talking and put lots of things in the visuals and cinematography to convey more information or make the dialogue more effective.
I think actually there's few TV shows that do more in that respect than Monogatari, even discounting the stuff that's just playing around.
HOly fuck this bloard is infested with plebians
>>133651025
To begin with there's few TV shows that are as dialogue heavy as monogatari.
>>133651146
And? What are the ones that aren't, putting into their visuals?
>>133651107
The fuck is a bloard
>>133650390
Well, let's say we want to convey that Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One and has the potential to become the most powerful Jedi ever. We can either
>have him do a normally impossible Force feat (ex. successfully shoot proton torpedoes at something while moving at super fast speeds)
or
>his midichlorian count is super high!
one of the best episodes in the series is 1/2 in a car
>>133650927
>It feels more like the show is wasting good opportunities to put substance in its visuals most of the time by instead a slave to its stylishness.
So you want there to be more symbolism and metaphors in the style?
>>133649695
Because visual storytelling is boring.
>>133651349
They had him win a podrace as a human child.
>>133650390
>>133650390
It's not vauge at all nor is it something made up for internet arguments.
You can look up lots of technical vids that compare visual and non visual story telling. The only reason to not have visual story telling is either to save money or pure laziness.
>>133651291
>What are the ones that aren't, putting into their visuals?
There's more shows that uses their visuals alone to tell stories. But I don't want to compare apples to oranges.
So I'm only thinking about other dialogue heavy shows.
>>133651447
>you want there to be more symbolism and metaphors in the style?
That's a way to put it. But it doesn't have to be symbolism or metaphores, just stuff that feels a little bit meaningful not random or stylish without purpose.
Though I have nothing against stylishness in general, it's just that monogatari's brand of it has gotten rather stale for me over the time and I wish that there was another layer of something behind it.
>>133651349
I haven't seen Star Wars in ages, but can't he not do anything before they train him? The midichlorian bullshit's a measure of potential, I thought.
Objectivity coming through
Bake > SS > Hana > Neko > Tsuki > Nise
>>133650541
>pretentious
Really the only pretentious part about the series is the flashing text because you aren't meant to read it and it doesn't say anything of worth most of the time, but that's just few seconds per episode in a show that has unique and unconventional visuals to begin with.
And the only reason why flashing text exist sis to cut cost as you don't have to draw or animate anything, Bake was full of QUALITY and a slideshow already
However visual flavor to make a show more interesting(which is exactly how you described them) is definitely not pretentious in any way, it's just visual flavor. It feels completely redundant saying this but here we are
And what's even worse is that you're calling it pretentious because it's "wacky unimportant shit", you're literally saying unique visuals require depth to not be pretentious
And I mean sure the visuals are "style over substance" by definition, but the thing is even that's a lot.
Vast majority of anime don't even have style comparable to Monogatari series to begin with while having both is even rarer
bottom line is that you are an idiot, you need to stop overthinking shows
>>133649695
The source material isn't written with visual storytelling in mind. The selling point of the LNs is Nisio's particular flavor of dialogue and wordplay. Basically, it's written to be characters just standing around and talking, or characters standing around and thinking, and their particular ways of talking and thinking make up a significant part of the entertainment value of the series. SHAFT is to be credited for their use of visuals in making you, as an observer of people just standing around, engaged in what's going on in a scene where people are just standing around. And there usually isn't a lot of plot to go through. Gleaning insight into the characters through listening to them talk, is more often than not what makes up the brunt of the story.
All that said, I remember there being a fair deal of visual storytelling in the first season. I rewatched it a few months back, so it's the one freshest in my memory.
>>133652132
Honestly, I would split up Zen. The different adapted novels vary a fair bit in quality.
>>133649695
Because it's not necessary. It was not written with visual storytelling in mind
>>133652132
Stop putting nise last.
It was very well done.
All this bullshit complaint of pacing and too much fanservice are laughable when you compare it to the other seasons objectively. Most have as much or nearly as much of the latter and all have at least as slow or slower pacing.
>>133651741
>So I'm only thinking about other dialogue heavy shows.
Are you saying you think there's more than a few other shows that are as dialogue heavy as Monogatari but are better at complementing their dialogue visually?
The focus is on the characters. You are supposed to infer upon their dialogue their intent, their integrity, and behavior. That is why the visual aspect is focused on the characters and their words, because it is much more important. You are not supposed to take everything as fact, but with suspicion.
>>133652917
It was well done, sure, but it's still boring
>>133652917
It was literally porn.
>>133653373
I don't think it was boring, It was one of the least boring seasons.
>>133654118
And?
>>133654118
So?
>>133652917
In eleven episodes it managed only one good scene. Monogatari has a pretty poor batting average, but Nise was one of the worst.
>>133654489
>only one good scene
Which would be?
>>133654321
>>133654418
That's why it's at the bottom. Mostly dull, you watch it after Bake and the direction is fucking trash in comparison, weak writing. just inane fapfodder.
>>133654603
You're a fucking moron. But that's okay too.
>>133655094
#REKT
>>133654663
That's wrong though.
>>133655741
>no monkey
heresy
>>133655741
>>133654663
The bath scene with Shinobu is one of the best scenes in the series.
>>133657096
Only scenes involving Shitobu that are good are the ones of her getting stabbed by Nadeko
>>133657307
Fag
>mfw the only thing than annoy me about monogatari is that I have to watch the episodes always with the hand on the pause button just to read every fast text.
>>133650788
She won kaiki fat dick
>>133649695
Hanekawa's breasts are the strongest oddities.
>>133652509
great explanation.
it really is a dialogue driven story. we've gotten some great action scenes but nevertheless the main focus is in the dialogue and thought processes of the characters.
In that sense, the cast is doing a great job covering all that dialogue and expressing their lines properly and cuts of words and sentences are necessary to fit the amount of content into a 22-23 minute weekly episode.
>>133657448
There's been less of that in Owari than in previous seasons. Feels a little bit off, honestly.
>>133650218
Why not?
