What's better?
A literal translation or a localization of terms?
>>123791780
A good translation.
>>123791780
Literal with TN notes explaining it.
It becomes painful when you know the literal translation and they give you the localization.
Duwang
Depends.
In Ika Musume's case, I don't know what they could have done with the "de geso" to make it work. By that I mean it wouldn't matter what you did, some large group of people would hate it.
>>123791780
Literal when you can do it while still sounding good.
Localized when you can't.
Most fansubbers just localize, even going as far as to mix things up or over translate lines when it's not necessary.
Literal if you're studying Japanese.
Localization as long as you don't go Phoenix Wright tier if you're not.
There should be a TL note indicating a pun was made. That way I know when I'm supposed to come up with a suitable pun and the translation doesn't suffer.
>>123791780
Casuals will answer localization, people who actually watch anime frequently will answer literal.
Only shitters want butchered, overtranslated dialogue spoonfed to them. People who "just want to know what they're saying" are as bad as the people who say they watch dubs because subtitles are distracting.
>>123791780
Literal translation base with a touch of localization is best. Any liberal base translation is retarded.
>>123791921
Just put ~De Geso at the end of every sentence where she says it? CR's translation is fucking dumb inserting squidding and similar words into sentences
>>123791780
Literal.
>>123791780
Just dub everything and nobody can complain cause they won't know the difference.
>>123792198
But then you get into the argument of "what is translating if you're leaving things in untranslated?". I'm 99% sure we've had these arguments here a bunch of times without any consensus.
The point of translation is to translate, but for which audience? A literal crowd, a casual crowd, or a completely ignorant crowd? Or, niche, less niche, mass appeal, in that order. It isn't an easy decision and speaks mostly to philosophy.
As for Crunchyroll, they obviously go somewhere between "less niche" and "mass appeal" rather than "niche". Then you have people like Commie, whose philosophy seems to depend on how much THEY like the show they're doing.
>>123791780
>ITT people who watch poor translated shows en masse and nothing else discussing what an ideal translation is like
>>123791780
Good literal with honorific and minimum localization > Anything else
![[a-s]_initial_d_4th_stage_-_03_-_the_topgun_of_the_todo_school__rs2_[5BEB9209].mkv_snapshot_06.36_[2015.04.10_01.38.23].png](https://i.imgur.com/f1dJgun.png "[a-s]_initial_d_4th_stage_-_03_-_the_topgun_of_the_todo_school__rs2_[5BEB9209].mkv_snapshot_06.36_[2015.04.10_01.38.23].png")
I'm still watching the third episode. Anyrecommendationsfor better subs?
No honorifics is the dumbest shit. There are fucking western works with them, everyone knows what they are including normies.
And every time a show has the scene where honorifics are discussed, they squirm trying to translate it just for the sake of autism. Hilarious.
>>123792360
>poor translated shows
That's pretty much all of them now. Fansubbing is dead.
>>123791870
>>123792095
Indeed.
Nana had kickass translations
>>123791780
I don't think that the dialog in most anime is worth stressing out over this.
>>123792726
>implying moe & ecchi aren't the pinnacle of modern plot development
It REALLY depends on the context.
Localize within reason. No jelly donuts please.
>>123792425
This here.
>>123791780
neither, it have to be the most literal possible and keeping it neutral, a lot of times in english subs they use too much localized shit, nothing bothers me more than slang/meme words in subs
>>123791780
Learning the language and not having to worry about this bullshit to begin with.
I think squidpuns-tier TL is acceptable but not really preferable unless the original text really calls for it. It's fine as an extra or alternative in the extreme form.
>>123791780
No such thing as a literal translation, when you fags are going to understand that japanese works different than english?
A localization is superior always.
Near-localised - it should feel like the work of another culture, but still be entirely understandable. There are cases where only True Otaku are going to be watching anyway, and in that case go crazy with the untranslated stuff to make them feel like they've actually learned some moonspeak.
And a question - are there any English words you wish translators would learn already? Sometimes it seems like appropriate translations are being avoided.
>>123791870
>translation notes
>>123791780
The one with natural English
what is the best TL group?
>>123794062
HorribleSubs. They are always the fastest group to release new episodes. Professional quality translations as well.
>>123792451
whatever uses an R1 translation
>>123791833
This anon gets it.
Literal vs liberal/localized is a false dichotomy.
>>123794233
>>123794062
maybe Vivid
>>123794062
Trick question, there is no best TL group.
There are good TL groups, but they often disband, or the good members get replaced with shit new members. In some cases, talented members let themselves go/get an overinflated ego and their skills deteriorate due to complacency.
Eclipse was a very good team but now they've disbanded.
gg showed dedication when translating Shaft-animated shows, but absolutely did not give a single fuck about anything else.
UTW was very good when they started, and they're still okay now, but they have some serious commitment issues.
>>123792631
>No honorifics is the dumbest shit.
No, the dumbest shit is trying to translate honorifics.
>"X-san" becomes "Ms. X"
Every time.
![[SS-Eclipse] Hayate no Gotoku! - 12 (1280x720 h264) [4745D536] (Mod by Rawako).mkv_snapshot_13.37_[2015.04.09_14.42.03].png](https://i.imgur.com/Dedn3IR.jpg "[SS-Eclipse] Hayate no Gotoku! - 12 (1280x720 h264) [4745D536] (Mod by Rawako).mkv_snapshot_13.37_[2015.04.09_14.42.03].png")
>>123794386
>Eclipse was a very good team
Muh nostalgia.
>>123792684
Even when fansubbing was 'alive', the shows are still poorly translated.
>>123794062
Koestl and insani.
>>123794386
>Eclipse was a very good team but now they've disbanded.
Heh
>gg showed dedication when translating Shaft-animated shows, but absolutely did not give a single fuck about anything else.
Pretty sure their PPD and Hidamari Sketch subs were really bad though
>>123794586
>their PPD subs were really bad though
This guy
>>123794404
>"X-san" becomes "Ms. X"
I think it really depends on the relationship between the characters.
If they're high school classmates of the same age, then yeah, that's weird.
If "X" is a last name, and "X" is visibly older than the person saying her name, then I think "Ms. X" is somewhat appropriate.
If it's in professional context, I think that's okay too. I've been called "Mr. Anon" by salespeople, even though I'm substantially younger than them.
>>123794586
Maybe I didn't notice because their non-Shaft translations are atrocious.
>>123794765
which ones are you talking about
![[gg]_Kobato_-_03_[ABD76E84].mkv_snapshot_20.25_[2009.10.20_20.43.27].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MGRrlJr.jpg "[gg]_Kobato_-_03_[ABD76E84].mkv_snapshot_20.25_[2009.10.20_20.43.27].jpg")
>>123794808
Just about any non-Shaft show that gg has ever done.
A specific example is hardly necessary because nearly all of them are terrible. But they don't fuck around as much when the show is actually from Shaft.
>>123795028
>A specific example is hardly necessary because nearly all of them are terrible.
so you don't have any specific examples and you're just talking out of your ass
cool
>>123795089
Look at my fucking picture, you incest child.
I may have said it was hardly necessary (which actually is true), but I gave you one anyway.
>>123795152
>I may have said it was hardly necessary (which actually is true), but I gave you one anyway.
I don't know if your picture means anything because I don't know what the line is in Japanese. Also, one example is hardly enough to speak of the quality of TLs for the entire group.
>>123795028
>any non-Shaft show that gg has ever done.
Oi m8 you talking shit about gg's CGR2 releases?
>>123795028
Who the fuck is Ralph? It's been years since I watched this but I don't remember any Ralphs.
>>123795604
She's actually saying "Katsuragi."
>>123791780
There's no good solution for everything.
If you're doing something niche like a slice of life highschool comedy then you're probably going to get a better response from your audience by going with a more straightforward. If you're doing something with a broader appeal or comes off as more western, like One Piece, you're better off cutting honorifics and trying to localize some stuff. There's a reason Chrono Trigger's localization is looser than the recent Persona games.
That said, translators notes are almost always distracting and terrible. Keeping the original joke is fine but don't put in a pop up saying "you were supposed to laugh here and x is a reference to y from another anime."
Both are shit, the best is just learning moon. Is not so hard.
>>123791780
>What's better?
Not having to rely on shitty translations. How tragic would it be for someone to watch anime for over a decade yet not bother to learn it at some point?
>>123796433
I couldn't even ace high school Spanish anon.
I'm not gonna become fluent in Japanese.
>>123792136
>people who actually watch anime frequently will answer literal.
People who actually watch anime frequently won't need subs at all.
>>123796544
Spend an eight of the time you spend here, studying the language. You'll be fluent in a year or two tops.
>>123792136
>people who actually watch anime frequently will answer literal.
looks like I know who to avoid
>>123796544
Just watch un-subtitled anime until you understand what is happening
>>123794404
to add to this >>123794722
anon. San translating to ms or mr in a professional context works perfectly. In terms of classmates or such its more like going
>hi anon, blah blah pero pero
instead of
>wassup mah nig nog
is the only equivalent I can really think of.
>>123796544
Languages are easier to learn when you enjoy learning it, or look forward to the fringe benefits.
You probably didn't do so well in Spanish because you didn't give a shit about it. You probably only took it because the public school system was trying to pander to beaners and tried to shove it down your throat.
You didn't enjoy learning Spanish, had little to no incentive to learn it, or both.
But as soon as you start taking Japanese lessons, you'll probably think "Sweet titty-fucking Christ, now I have tons more anime, manga, and video games that are accessible to me!"
For this anime I used subs which put the context of the series into terms I could understand
>>123796907
Well, the level cultural difference has to be taken into account as well. In the west we don't call classmates by our family names at all, but that's present in Japan. There's an extra level of distance that has to be taken into account, that may warrant putting in a Mrs. or Mr. when we wouldn't normally put one. Simply calling your classmate by their last name in english doesn't denote respect like it would in Japan.
The alternatives are to leave that stuff out, heavily localize to make those layers of familiarity more apparent, or to put honorifics in.
>>123797083
Japanese is a language you really need a lot of will power to learn though.
Sure you learn the hiragana and katakana easily enough, but then you realize for anything you actually want to read you have to learn a shit ton of kanji. Then after about 2 months of that unless you're really motivated (this is something school does help with) you give up.
Personally Japanese/chinese is something I'd recommend going to classes for because of the fact you're forced to keep up with it or suffer consequences.
>>123797587
Honestly, 4 weeks of total immersion will do more for you than any class. It's surprising how quickly one can adapt if you have no other option.
Compare the costs of taking an extended trip to japan, to taking a few years of class. If the former is at all feasible then it's worth it, if becoming fluent is a major life goal.
That's a lot of "ifs" though.
>>123797557
at least where I went to school there really wasn't a formality layer at all so there really isn't any comparison at all.
Of course there were people you normally talked to and didn't and you might be a bit more polite/tentative around them, but it wasn't a layer of respect or anything near what the Japanese have. Just a bit of courtesy so you don't come off as a dick.
Literal translation, but you have to actually translate. I can make allowances for something like "senpai" or "tsundere," but I've seen some really dumb shit left untranslated for no reason. "Gomenasai" topping the list.
Wow. /a/ is finally not being retarded and concluding that learning Japanese is the proper answer to unsatisfactory subs.
Almost every time you have some retards who go
>learning a useless language
to relieve their own sense of incompetence.
>>123798216
Nakama still offends me the most.
>>123798282
You don't need to be incompetent to realise that learning Japanese just to watch Chinese cartoons is a stupid idea.
A great example of gg's trolling was Hidan no Aria, if anyone still cares.
>>123798409
Except they're also always the ones to argue that it's "literally impossible" to learn Japanese from anime, and that Japanese is a fundamentally difficult language to learn and other similarly retarded bullshit.
>>123791870
>TL Notes
>>123798409
>Learning is dumb
Typical murrican kid
>>123798409
>a stupid idea.
And bitching about muh subs and muh shitty scanlations on /a/ isn't?
All those hours of endless, inconclusive debates would have been enough to get you a basic conversational level.
>>123798282
I'm of the opinion that the increased enjoyment from learning Japanese would not outweigh the work that would go into learning it.
If I were an avid manga and LN reader I'd change my tune, but anime? Shit's a visual artform yo.
Hell, even the voice acting, regardless of the content said, generally conveys more significant information than words themselves.
>>123798409
Learning new things to enjoy more of some other thing is a stupid idea? Seriously? It's not even about moon and chink cartoons. People do things like that a lot more often than you think, and guess what, it's enjoyable and can be enriching too.
>>123798575
>TL notes for very obvious things
If you've seen early Gintama episodes, then you've seen these.
>TL Note: "Son Goku" refers to a character in Akira Toriyama's "Dragon Ball" series, which is based on the classic Chinese tale "Journey to the West"
>>123794380
Yup. Underwater is pretty good too, but they don't translate much each season.
>>123798679
I did not how to read or write Japanese for many years, while being able to understand basic Japanese speech.
Shit's easy, bro.
>>123798806
Then I'll learn it by watching live streams.
>>123798940
Good luck. Remember to keep your ears open and be patient. I also recommend using romaji as training wheels.
>>123798699
When it's a show like Gintama where they throw out some thickly coated Japanese jokes, it's understandable, but that is the only time that I find them acceptable. I don't need someone explaining to me what yakisoba is or that "hamburga" actually means salisbury steak.
