I did it, /a/. I am no longer a filthy secondary, even if my introduction to the franchise was entirely doujins, both funny and lewd.
That said, having just gotten HF True, I still have some questions:
-Why is Archer so cooperative in Fate? In HF he gives up on his grudge, but in Fate he simply dies to protect them for no explained reason.
-How could Shirou project a sword strong enough to kill Berserker 5 times over? Why couldn't Archer?
-Why is Caliburn so much ridiculously stronger than Excalibur, when it's probably less famous?
-Why couldn't Archer summon Berserker's Sword and kill him 9 times over like Shirou could in HF?
-What happens to Sakura after the ends of Fate and UBW?
-What happens to the Greater Holy Grail in Fate and UBW? Won't it simply restart the war in 10 years or so since once again there was no wish?
-Why couldn't Angry Mayu be born in Fate and UBW?
-What did Illya do in the end? Did she turn Shirou into a little girl for a while? Did little girl shirou somehow crawl out of a collapsed cavern to where Rider "plucked him out"?Why do people like HF true while hating UBW Good? They're both Harem ends.
In other words, Fate/Stay Night thread
Also post your 2 favoritelewd doujinsof the series I want to judge /a/'s quiestionable taste.
>Why is Archer so cooperative in Fate? In HF he gives up on his grudge, but in Fate he simply dies to protect them for no explained reason.
Archer is cooperative in Fate because the story structure benefits from it. there's no tension in the UBW reveal if it's telegraphed in Fate without the rest of UBW as context. HF gets more mileage out of the Archer character by not repeating the same beats.
>How could Shirou project a sword strong enough to kill Berserker 5 times over? Why couldn't Archer?
Shirou and Archer don't have the same objectives and motivations when they fight Berserker. this obviously impacts the decisions they make.
>Why is Caliburn so much ridiculously stronger than Excalibur, when it's probably less famous?
there are more people that think Excalibur was the sword in the stone than there are people who know the difference between Excalibur and Caliburn. this is the transitive property of fame.
>Why couldn't Archer summon Berserker's Sword and kill him 9 times over like Shirou could in HF?
again, different circumstances. one major difference is that Shirou is constantly fighting for his life and Archer exists in an infinite state of boredom punctuated by timeless bloodshed.
>What happens to Sakura after the ends of Fate and UBW?
worms and archery club. Fate and UBW don't spend the attention on Sakura necessary to counterindicate the situation in HF. i think that exploring Sakura in the first two routes in such a way as to e.g. preclude worms would weaken the story's structure. for me, one of the meaningful insights from HF was that the reason Sakura is always hungry is to feed the worms. it starts as a joke! but we see it's not a nice joke.
i will address your other questions but this feels like it's getting long.
>>122486157
Archer got fucked up by Saber in Fate, so he wasn't in a position to plot against anyone. Plus Shirou never tries to sacrifice himself solely for the sake of his heroic ideals in front of Archer's face (instead doing it for Saber, but hey it's a start) so he doesn't get triggered by Shirou following his particular path to misery.
In Fate and UBW, Rin teams up with her professor from the Clock Tower institution to dismantle the Grail before it can reset itself. Said professor happens to be Waver from Fate/Zero. Of course since this entails destroying a potential path to the Root, it sets off a mage war that will be totally epic and as serious as a Grail War and probably never featured in a direct adaptation in any way.What follows is me throwing bits of canon together so take it with a grain of salt.Angry Manjew didn't have a convenient anchor to reality in Fate and UBW since Ilya is a proper grail vessel, so its curse just poured out of the Grail passively as the black mud. But Sakura is a knockoff grail Zouken built in his basement with bits of Irisviel and has enough ~dark emotions~ to stir AM into actively seeking physical form. I think.
Everything else is pretty much lolplotmiracles, but that's how this setting works.
>>122486741
>girl-dick in man-ass
ayyyyy
>>122487485
>he doesn't get triggered by Shirou following his particular path to misery.
That's a fair explanation. Was archer truly confused about his identity, or just pretending for Rin's sake? Because if he was a little confused, one could forgive him for not following his objective if he wasn't outright triggered by Shirou. I wish they'd hinted at a proper reason because while it's important to keep the twists hidden for UBW, in retrospect it's oddhe definitely seemed to have his memory in UBW
>In Fate and UBW, Rin teams up with her professor from the Clock Tower institution to dismantle the Grail before it can reset itself.
Nice to know, is this mentioned anywhere outside of F/SN?
>>122487485
>I think.
That's also satisfactory.
Oh, does anyone have the newest version of the "So You Want to Watch Fate /Stay Night pic? Is there a newer one?
>What happens to the Greater Holy Grail in Fate and UBW? Won't it simply restart the war in 10 years or so since once again there was no wish?
the franchise has been getting more mileage out of parallels and timeskips than prequels or sequels.
>Why couldn't Angry Mayu be born in Fate and UBW?
i kind of agree with >>122487485 but i have some reservations. the issue is the murders that happen early on in every route. f/ha shows us pretty explicitly that these are angra mainyu. it's unclear to me who commits these murders if it's NOT angra mainyu. and the murders happen in every route. black mud isn't really enough to fill all the plot holes.
>What did Illya do in the end? Did she turn Shirou into a little girl for a while? Did little girl shirou somehow crawl out of a collapsed cavern to where Rider "plucked him out"?
i don't remember it being clear that the vessel Shirou is stored in is necessarily humanoid. Illya does put him in a toy elsewhere in the story.i like HF because it undercuts the narrative in the other two routes so much that preferring UBW or Fate requires one to break the structure of the story unreasonably.
>>122487846
this is the newest one i have.
>>122487994
>the issue is the murders that happen early on in every route.
Really? I thought the shared murders happen due to Caster, Shinji and maybe Lancer. I mean, they did explicitly say some of the victims had been pierced by a sharp weapon.
>>122487994
>i don't remember it being clear that the vessel Shirou is stored in is necessarily humanoid
I got the feeling Illya implied she'd put shirou in her own humunculus body. There weren't exactly any other vessels around that were mentioned.
>>122487846
Though it isn't stated in story, it's safe to assume that Archer only has jumbled memories for a brief period after his summoning and afterwards is just pretending.
Some interview with Nasu set the moment where he recalls everything clearly at the next morning when Rin tells him her name, jogging his memory.
The Rin/Waver Grailbusta team up is brought up in side material somewhere, but after six years of reading bulk translations I couldn't tell you where.
No picture here, but since you've finished the VN you can decide between reading Fate/Zero (light novel translations are online), reading Tsukihime, or go full pleb and skip to watching Fate/Zero.
Then you could catch up with the Ufotable UBW adaptation that starts second season next month, or - if you're feeling pretty hot about your Nasuverse knowledge - watch Carnival Phantasm for laughs. CP has some pretty good jokes, but it does a hack job on numerous character personalities due to a combination of explicit backstories and NO SPOILERS ALLOWED.
Good luck, brave soul
>>122488159
caster is the gas accidents, not the murders. they happen before Rider is transferred to Shinji (which i think happens that weekend Sakura can't come over to the Emiya house). Lancer has no motive and both Bazett and Kirei have little to gain from forcing him.
i don't know how much of Illya sublimated into the greater grail so it's not clear to me that there's just a girl doll lying around ready to accept him.but i won't judge your headcanon.
>>122487485
>it sets off a mage war that will be totally epic and as serious as a Grail War and probably never featured in a direct adaptation in any way.
Hey, we've got a Waver novel series out now. No way they aren't thinking about that being the end game for it all.
>>122488159
>>122488434
I've heard so many conflicting positions on what vessel Shirou's soul ended up in that I have no idea what the truth is anymore. I always thought it was Rin's pendant for some reason.
>>122488530
we will have to wait until someone uses the shed vessel as a catalyst to summon a Servant in the 53rd Grail War to know for sure.
>>122488434
But the shadow doesn't kill by simply piercing people dead with a "shawp weapon", the shadow was feeding. If I recall, I don't think the shadow was killing before further into the route.
Maybe it was gilgamesh? He was prowling around the neighborhood anyway to tell sakura to kill herself before he died like a bitch.
>Set up Waver as a total badass in the future
>Nigger wears leather pants
Why was Berserker suddenly able to talk after he was killed?
Why did Kotomine stand like a motionless statue and let Shirou to stab him?
>png with jpeg artifacts
Sasuga, OP
>>122486741
I'd have to say...
-[Tex-Mex's] Purple Sky Golden Dawn
-[Sasayuki's] Samen Grail Wars (which I can't find translated anywhere but could swear I read it in english).
Honorable mention goes to Shimoyakedo's efforts, especially Papillio Protenor.
>>122488674
>Why was Berserker suddenly able to talk after he was killed?
Berserkers in general tend to get a moment of clarity as they die. it's not an artifact of 12 Lives or anythin Herc-related.
>>122488674
>Why was Berserker suddenly able to talk after he was killed?
I always thought the rage started evaporated as he began to die.
>Why did Kotomine stand like a motionless statue and let Shirou to stab him?
Bothered me significantly, to the point of where I thought the fight between them was weakened due to this. I mean dude, I already killed you two routes ago.
>>122488674
>Why did Kotomine stand like a motionless statue and let Shirou to stab him?
Anime disbelief
>>122488668
i hear you. it feels like a plot hole to me. it may be murkier after reading f/ha.
>>122488809
Fuck this post is a mess. I mean the fight in HF felt kind of weakened, and I mean evaporating, not evaporated.
>>122488674
He was too appalled when Shitrou shouted "I don't have a plan!"
>>122488674
>Why did Kotomine stand like a motionless statue and let Shirou to stab him?
Because he was flabbergasted by his retard charge after breaking out of Arngy Mayu's ball-o-die like 3 times.
>>122488859
PLANS ARE FOR IDIOTS
Man, outside his amazing revelation in the underground of the church, Shirou was such a terrible character in Fate.
>>122486157
>-Why is Archer so cooperative in Fate? In HF he gives up on his grudge, but in Fate he simply dies to protect them for no explained reason.
No chance for his revenge there, they're already dead unless he steps up and buys them time there.
>-How could Shirou project a sword strong enough to kill Berserker 5 times over? Why couldn't Archer?
Black Berserker was weaker than normal Berserker by a bit, due to blackening fucking him up a lot more than Saber. Had no skin, no eyes, and even then he still would have won if not for Ilya. Archer still killed Berserker six times off screen you dink.
>-Why is Caliburn so much ridiculously stronger than Excalibur, when it's probably less famous?
It's not, it's very much weaker. They bullsitted some "Because of a miracle of sword and owner reuniting through time and space" explanation or something to say why it could create a miracle.
>-Why couldn't Archer summon Berserker's Sword and kill him 9 times over like Shirou could in HF?
It's not the sword, it's the technique. Nine Lives is Berserker's real attack that's on par with a Noble Phantasm,which he can't use as Berserker. It can be applied to any weapon. Archer wouldn't use it because he became more the low risk type as he got older, and tactics like these are stupid.
>-What happens to Sakura after the ends of Fate and UBW?
Not saved, raped, might be saved ten years later, you get the idea, whatever
>-What happens to the Greater Holy Grail in Fate and UBW? Won't it simply restart the war in 10 years or so since once again there was no wish?
Grail is dismantled ten years later, this is in the data-book
>>122489286
>-Why couldn't Angry Mayu be born in Fate and UBW?
The chance of all the shit coming together just right happens in HF so much. Although if it had gone more wrong it might have been born in the other routes.
>-What did Illya do in the end? Did she turn Shirou into a little girl for a while? Did little girl shirou somehow crawl out of a collapsed cavern to where Rider "plucked him out"?
She used part of her body and something nearby(A plant) to root his soul to the world until Rin could put him in one of TOuko's dolls. Rin noted trying to water him once, and "It's not like he would grow if.." blah blah, some people don't like that because it's not flat out said, but it was a plant. It was also noted he used part of the pendent's mana to reach out and grow a bit above the water when he was submerged at one point.
>Why do people like HF true while hating UBW Good? They're both Harem ends.
It's not a harem, he's firmly in the Sakura camp. Just because there's more girls around doesn't mean he's dating with them all or something, he's entirely in one area. Even the other girls in the house entirely know that a relationship is going on, and aren't trying to get with him. That's a bit far from a harem.
I didn't read over most of this, but it's probably all there.
>>122489329
UBW Good isn't really even a harem either. Shirou and Rin are together. Saber is just kind of alive to.
Hell, Shirou and Rin have to fuck each other just to keep her around.
>>122489329
>A plant
How did Rider recognize a goddamn plant as being Shirou? Must've been a fucked up plant. How did he have the pendant if he was a plant?
>>122489544
she pulled her tits out in front of each plant and chose the plant who started cooking.
He was turned into a little girl faggots it's canon.
So was any explanation given for Toshaka's Anus in heaven's feel? I get that if you look closely you can figure it was Rider due to the eyes, but the dream or Rider's involvement or this mysterious ability of hers to give people hot dreams isn't really mentioned ever again that I can remember.
>>122490010
This is a stab in the dark because I still haven't gotten to the end of HF, but I think the sex dreams are Sakura and I guess Rider sneaking into Shirou's house and draining him to feed the worm.
>>122490010
Done again in F/HA.
>>122490010
>>122490165
You'll need to read FHA
>>122490165
Well there should have been more dreams. Especially dreams involiving Rider. And maybe three to fivesomes.
>Start reading through the Eclipse segments of HA
>Do the one that focuses on the Track Team
>They start mentioning things that specifically happened in UBW
>Caster knocking out the school, Rin and Shirou as a couple, etc
>Oh wow, an actual extension of one of the routes from the original novel, this could be interesting
>They mention Saber being aorund
>...Okay so it's an extension of UBW Good
>They mention Rider being around
Oh well this can just fuck off. What a tease. Plus it's not even like it's a good scene. It basically boils down to an exceedingly long segment about people talking about shipping.
Why did Nasu puss out on writing about stuff that happens after certain routes? Kagetsu Tohya had that entire epilogue to Akiha True, and no one seemed to get offended.
>>122489929Ever since I read that doujin series, Shirou turning into Ilya has been my headcanon, too.
>>122490010
It's talked about in F/HA when showing a flashback to Medusa vs Perseus in the Greek myth. It's an ability called Breaker Gorgon that puts anyone caught in it into a dream/nightmare.
>>122490244
I need to stop laughing at this
>>122490252
He doesn't want to leave any route out or some bullshit.
I guess he did the Akiha extension because he knew it was a massive cock tease considering what Akiha says at the end of the route.
>>122490252
Because every route is canon and happened.
>>122490336
Doesn't mean you can't write more info about them.
>>122490336
Always loved that about the Nasuverse
>>122490364
what you want is boring. set your expectations higher.
>>122488434
>caster is the gas accidents
And yet there are no fart jokes. Somehow I feel a little disappointed.
>>122490442
The fuck are you on about? How is what I want boring? The way the scene was set up it read like it was taking place after UBW, but then it slowly revealed to you it was just the same old non-offensive merged route from HA.
That made it boring.
>>122489436
It IS a harem. Rin's harem, that is.
>>122490503
you're given an infinitely repeating opportunity to explore the setting and characters without the restrictions of a route which portrays only one third of the story.
and you complain about the lack of UBW continuation.
what you want is boring.
>>122490655
I completed the game and got all the little side SoL scenes done. I got what you're moaning about. I thought Eclipse would be a little different, kind of like in Kagetsu, where it directly had a continuation of a specific route, but then I get this scene that went on for fucking thousands of words, and was just a bunch of side characters wondering about who was fucking who. No seriously, it was the Track Team wondering if Shirou had broken up with Rin, or if Issei was dating Ayako. It was garbage, and it just kept going.
If that's interesting to you, well we have very different definitions of the word.
>>122490428
>>122490806
And the slap in the face was that it was trying to lead you on that it was a continuation of one of the routes. I actually paid some extra attention because I thought this was going to give some information on one of the main stories, but like, half way through they spill the beans and show you it's just the regular HA universe.
That's the thing that made me annoyed. I'm not specifically asking for a direct continuation, but don't bullshit me like that.
>>122490806
>>122490895
the track team is awesome and i did not experience the setup and let down you describe.
Was jewel sword zelretch supposed to be a larger sword?
>>122487846
>So You Want to Watch Fate /Stay Night
http://pastebin.com/BxZKmaaw
>>122490934
Nope.
That's it.
>>122490922
Very early on they mention the part in UBW where Ayako got her mana drained by Rider, the part where Caster knocked out the school, and how Rin and Shirou were dating.
Then they casually sprinkled in that Saber was around, and that so was Rider, and it just went down the drain from there.
>>122490010
>So was any explanation given for Toshaka's Anus in heaven's feel?
Medusa was cut in half by Saber, her contract with Shinji was cut due to the book burning, she was still fuck out of mana even if she reverted back to her original master, needed to recover fast. She has E rank Independent Action if you remember shit, so she could survive for a few turns even if she was damaged or without prana. She decided to drain mana from Shirou that night using Cybele to infiltrate his dreams and drain him a bit, Shirou saw some funky dreams while she was doing it as that's part of the process. You could even fucking see that it was Medusa in the dream, as she had her eyes.
This is one of her abilities, this is the only way she could survive at the time, you know she told Sakura about it the next day but not the night before. Sakura the next day was all "Did you see someone in your dream", but you know if she had told her the previous day Sakura would just be "Just take some of my mana, don't you fucking touch sempai, son of a bitch". Rider was avoiding trying to take mana from Sakura as she said in that route since it drains her too much in her current state, and she can't take it, due to her situation, so she tried to find mana elsewhere instead. Rider despite being sneaky isn't actually dishonest, so she's like "Yeah I did that last night. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission at times". Then Sakura wondered the next day if it was her who appeared in the dream. Then Shinji pressed Sakura to return Rider to him the next day or a few days later, since his command spell burned up or whatever. Maybe it was after the Saber death that she gave Rider to him the second time.
She ate up Shirou the previous night in a dream sexual way for mana, using one of her abilities. You can figure out this stuff.
>>122489544
>How did Rider recognize a goddamn plant as being Shirou?
Servants can see souls, since they are souls.
It's right here when he uses the pendent, or maybe it isn't since I didn't read the image thoroughly, but the file-name seems to imply it.
Nasu says in the interview that... just whatever, here's the interview.
>Q: During the last part of Sakura’s route, Shirou was saved by the tiny bit of residual mana in Tohsaka Rin’s pendant. Also, it seems like Rin knew about the difference in residual mana between the thing he got back from Archer and the thing he was holding, so could Sakura’s route be the one in which Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit after all? Or could you tell us the route(s) in which Shirou doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit?
>A: I’ll just say now that he doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit in any of the routes, but the possibility is still present in all of them as well. Basically, the probability of it happening is almost zero.
So, wait. In UBW's final Bad End, where Shirou throws himself into the Holy Grail, does Angra Mainyu get to be born, using Shirou as a vessel?
>>122491088
>A: I’ll just say now that he doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit in any of the routes, but the possibility is still present in all of them as well. Basically, the probability of it happening is almost zero.
this is why i enjoy type-moon.
>>122491088
Plants don't have hands to hold pendants.
>>122491152
Possibility is there, the pieces that "could" make it happen still exist, but he doesn't.
>>122491132
No he just gets consumed
Angra Mainyu's curse is merely a command to "die." Everything, and all things. A curse is magical in nature, the same as a command spell. If you have the ability to resist one, you have the ability to resist another. Pretty much everyone that resisted command spells was pretty competent at resisting Angra Mainyu's curse to a good extent. Saber took a long time to corrupt through, and also resisted a command spell admirably. Archer didn't give a fuck about Angra Mainyu, and also resisted Rin's command spell. Gilgamesh got a rinse cycle in Angra Mainyu and went on with only a slightly more maniacal streak.
It's not that important a concept, in the long run.
>>122491216
But the grail IS summoned.
>>122491249
also, this dude.
>>122491183
As a plant his hands would be his stems, don't think so literally. Of course he would still think of them as hands. Even if you suddenly became something inhuman, you'd still think of your "hands" as hands. We were given a clue in that scene as well about his body being quite different, his hands not being hands. If you think he had hands at that point, and that he had an entirely normal and human body as in he literally had hands, you weren't reading the scene at all. You've missed the entire narrative of that scene if you're seeing it so literally like that, like "Pfft, he said he was holding it, of course he has hands and everything" which wouldn't even fit with what happens next.. In the other interview it does confirm that his body during that time was very inhuman.
>Q: When the Third Magic was activated at the end of Sakura’s route, Shirou’s body was no longer human, right? Without his human form, how would it have recognized the body as Shirou?
>A: It was thanks to a spell Rider placed on Rin’s pendant. I’ll leave Shirou’s condition to your imagination. Because Ilya also used part of her body to reconstruct him it wasn’t a matter of how big he was, but rather what degree of ‘humanity’ was desired.
Notice that says Ilya "also" used part of her body, as in additionally something else, and she says during the time in the scene the other piece.
It's not that his body is entirely this or that, as I said in the original post, it's something of an inhuman mixture of part of Ilya(not all of her body even) and part of something else noted there, with Shirou's soul attached until Rider could find it
Can't find that other image just yet.
>>122491249
>Saber took a long time to corrupt through, and also resisted a command spell admirably. Archer didn't give a fuck about Angra Mainyu, and also resisted Rin's command spell. Gilgamesh got a rinse cycle in Angra Mainyu and went on with only a slightly more maniacal streak.
Saber and Archer were corrupted or beaten instantly by this shit; Saber is an example of the blackening taking normal effect on a servant while Berserker is more the abnormality as it really fucked him up with his divinity. Archer was killed in one hit basically, only reason he could survive for even a bit after that was said to be entirely his Independent Action, don't confuse the fact that he wasn't as effected by the ill nature in the forest due to him being closer to a malicious spirit in a sense or Anti-hero in a sense, to him being able to resist at all. Without Avalon, or especially Archer compared to Shirou, he's not having a high resist anything against this.
Only reason Saber didn't die immediately upon touching it was because Zouken noted the Sakura's ego was subconsciously trying to build up an army as it was wary of Zouken. That's the reason Rin told Saber not to step into the pond at all in UBW.
The only ones that were noted to beat this curse temporarily or not in different ways were Sakura, Gilgamesh, and Shirou in Fate route when he had Avalon. Sakura because she's similar to the curse, Gilgamesh because he's too foreign to it to infect with his huge ego, Shirou because main character ability and Avalon.
As long as you're a servant you're basically dead touching that, unless you're Gilgamesh or Buddha, who's also noted to be able to resist all Earthly sins due to one of his abilities. Jesus as well would probably negate it all, since that's his whole thing.
>>122491821
>Personal skills
>■ Enlightenment of the Sacred Fig EX
>Protection covering only one who has arrived at the truth of the world, the answer of humanity. A testament of “protecting the world”, called anti-purge protection.
>Unconditionally reduces damage from physical attacks, conceptual attacks, inter-dimensional attacks by an amount equivalent to his own HP. Also shuts out mental interference 100%. If it’s Saver who has attained the EX rank, it should be possible to tranquilly receive even the seven desires of man.
Well something like that anyway
>>122486157
Who did you think the best girl was?
So is there going to be a leak right?
>>122492389it begins
If the Grail can grant any wish but can only do so by killing shit how would it grant the wish to make the victor grow 30cm taller?
>>122492389
It was an infection of everything living, a curse of death. Purge the land, end the curse. Worst case scenario, you eradicate a large portion of Japan by nuking the source.
Angra Mainyu is a damn liar. You're not supposed to listen to it. The entire point of the curse is to bring you to utter despair so much that you don't even want to live, eaten by it in the end.
>>122488434
It's Lancer, they were other witnesses
Sakura was the perfect vessel for Angra Mainyu's power, being water-forced void.
She was the ultimate curse machine.
>>122493016
The muscle wizard or the dog?
They're both top tier, regardless.
Wait, is the screening happening on the 14th or the 28th?
>>122493781
today
