Does yuri subtext count as yuri?
This is also now a Madohomu appreciation thread, feel free to post best girls
Only if the characters are basically a couple who just haven't professed the "I love you let's kiss" sort of thing.
For example, something like K-on wouldn't be Yuri despite having arguable subtext for it
Madoka would. However personally I think Madoka has more platonic feelings, Homura is complete Madoka fag, Sayaka and Kyoko had one that built up over time, Mami is just the onee-san of the group.
>>122274726
Madoka is Homura's friend. Homura loves Madoka as a friend, not a lover. Yes, it's possible to love someone as a close friend. Sayaka and Kyouko have spoken to each other like 3 times.
>>122274646
What is she doing to Kyubey?
KyouHomu best crack pairing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_Friends_affair
>>122274806
>Audience: Is Homura in love with Madoka?
>Urobuchi: Probably
That plus AI YO makes it pretty clear that Homura's feelings for Madoka are beyond platonic.
>>122275070
>>122275070
This is stupid, sorry. Close =/= romantic, and neither of those things necessitate sexual by any means.
mahou shoujo are as much yuri as mech anime are yaoi.
>>122274726
Pretty much this.
To be honest even the "yuri" series we get tend to be pretty tame. Not just type S like Marimite (only confirmed canon lesbian is Sei), but stuff like Aoi Hana or Sasameki Koto was not really that in your face. Sakura Trick was probably the most in-your-face about yuriness but also Haruka and Yuu are not a traditional couple.
At some point we have to say, "this is yuri", I think Marimite is very obviously yuri despite having like one kiss (and on the cheek at that). Madohomu is yuri. Nanofate is yuri. There is so much subtext it's overwhelming.
K-On is NOT yuri.
>>122274923
Teaching him a lesson.
>>122275218
>>Audience: Is Homura in love with Madoka?
>>Urobuchi: Probably
kek
>>122275588
Sakura Trick also flopped pretty hard if I recall correctly, the parts that weren't lewd kissing were filled with retarded pointless drama andit turns out that Haruka didn't even understand what romantic love is and thought they were still friends. They're about as much of a couple as Tougou and Yuuna.
Homura is mah waifu, though I still find Madohomu adorable.
That being said, I've always had odd thoughts about the pairing, that I want to see if anyone else shares. To me, I see their relationship as similar in a way to Mikasa and Eren in Attack on Titan. With that I mean Mikasa and Homura both can be paired in other works (artwork, fanfiction, silly parody stuff, jokes made by the creators, etc.) with Eren and Madoka (respectively of course) and it would still make total sense. However, in terms of the canon of the "real" series, it's impossible for me to see them as actually a couple.
Like, at the end of Rebellion, when Homura became The Devil because of her love. It is undeniable fact that Homura loves Madoka. But it really doesn't seem in the sense that she would pursue a relationship other than "I'm watching over you forever Madoka." Because of how obsessed she is. In fact, her actions at the end of Rebellion show how unhealthy her love is for Madoka with that "You're going to do what I think is best for you even if that sucks for everyone else" move.
>>122275438
Mahou Shoujo in general? Sure. Plenty of them have no canon lesbians, even if their fanbases like to imagine there are. For example, every Precure series.
I'd say the lesbianism in both Madoka and Nanoha is undeniable.
>>122275218
Love doesn't have to mean love as a wife. I can say I love my friend. Doesn't mean romantically. I'm sure Madoka and Sayaka loved Mami as their senpai. Not as their love interest.
It's teasing as yuri, So no it isn't yuri at all.
Only happens to drive shipperfags mad.
>>122275964
There's loving someone as a friend, and then there is devoting your entire life to making someone happy even if you don't want to have sex with them.
>>122275938
Homura definitely loves Madoka, but she's weird in that she never at any point seeks for Madoka to reciprocate those feelings. I'd go so far as to say that she believes herself unworthy of Madoka's love.
>>122275964
>Love doesn't have to mean love as a wife.
Did you even watch Rebellion? Pls.
>>122276005
There are some canon lesbians, like Homura and Tougou. And shows like Symphogear have subtext so thick it's basically straight text. I wouldn't call it pure yuri, but there are definitely elements there.
>>122276022
So like a parent?
>>122274597
Homura is pretty much explicitly a lesbian by the end of Rebellion. It's not subtext.
>>122276081
>>122276022
Yes, I watched Rebellion. Madoka loves Homu as a friend. Homu loves Madoka but she didn't say as a lover. The last episode is called "My Best Friend".
Parents devote their lives to their kids, doesn't mean they want to marry their kids. Some best friends also devote their lives to make others happy, doesn't mean it always has to be romantic. Love isn't a one-dimensional word.
Nope, just typical shipperfag pandering.
There aren't even any canon homosexuals in Free!. Just think about that for a second.
>>122276209
>explicitly as a lesbian
Not really. Love isn't just a one-dimensional thing. I can love my pet, doesn't mean I want to make it my wife.
>>122276033
This.
She's never had a high sense of self-worth and was ready to off herself the first go around when the witch appeared. Madoka is her guiding light, her idol, and reason for living. It's obvious she loves her romantically but she would never sully Madoka with that love. Even as the devil, she still worships Madoka.
>>122276265
>>122276231
You guys do realize that if Homura was a guy, none of you would be saying this?
>>122276310
It's denial of the obvious.
>>122276231
The b8 is strong with this m8.
>>122276310
I would still be saying it.
>>122276373
I doubt it.
>>122276358
>>122276343
It's cool to have headcanons, we all have those. But love isn't a one-dimensional word.
I love my dog. Doesn't mean I want to marry it. Parents/best friends/relatives can devote their lives to someone, doesn't mean they want to marry their person. It's not always in a romantic way.
Actually, they emphasize "friends" a whole lot, even naming the last episode "My Best Friend". Homura becoming more dominant in Rebellion, she would have kissed Madoka or something. But she didn't because she was more of a friend and protector than a love interest.
>>122276440
Yes, because the meaning doesn't change just because you change the gender. Besides, I don't really care about yaoi or yuri that much.
>>122276231
At this point you're either being pedantic or trolling. It's true that there are different versions of love; parental love, platonic love, romantic love, etc. However, going through a living hell for someone's sake for the equivalent of 8-10 years, then completely rewriting the universe for her sake and even declaring that your motivation is love goes beyond platonic. Note that after the question described in >>122275218 Urobuchi talked about homosexual relationships after being asked why he made Homura gay.
>>122276310
People would be saying that even more.
>>122276310
Platonic love between guy and girl character in anime is rare but it does happen (Yukito and Misuzu in Air for example).
>>122276642
So parents can't go through living hell for their kids? Best friends can't go through living hell, relatives can't go through living hell for someone they care about?
Homura never specified what kind of love she felt, and the show constantly emphasized friendship. "My Best Friend." If Homura really did love Madoka romantically she would have dated her/kissed her or something since she was being more dominant during the end. She didn't do any of those because she is a protector. She loves Madoka, cares about her, not in the sense that she wants to marry her. But she just loves her because of what she's done in the past.
Obviously there's a lot of art and they pander to yurifags a whole lot. This is Shaft we're talking about. But them being gay actually isn't confirmed. We all like to believe it because it's cute. But none of them are really gay. I don't think the girls are actually interested in that kind of love yet. Sayaka had a crush on a boy which is normal for her age. That's the closest there is to romance.
>>122276642
She's just talking her home gently.
>>122276801
See >>122276271
The reason why Homura never actually pursues Madoka romantically is because she has drastically low self-esteem and basically hates everything about herself. Her time spent trying to save Madoka over and over changed her feelings to something akin to worship; And Homura sees herself as unworthy of Madoka's love. Even if Homura's feelings were platonic when she started her mission (which I doubt, but it's possible), spending the equivalent of a decade trying to save someone over and over again would inevitable twist those feelings into an obsession.
>>122276801
>If Homura really did love Madoka romantically...
see>>122276271
The homolove aspect is so obvious, Uro is basically beating us over the head with it. Stop living in a fantasy world and admit Homura loves Madoka like a lover.
>>122277024
So in Steins;Gate in the very similar situation whereOkabe tried to save Tuturu over and over againdoes that mean he wanted to fuck her?
>>122277111
The action alone does not dictate romantic love, It's how the action is portrayed and in Homura's case it's an obvious depiction of romantic infatuation. Also nice trips.
>>122277093
>Uro is basically beating us over the head with it.
Ok, this one simply isn't true.
It generally does yeah. The only reason you see people fervently argue against it here is because they're trolling. You need to be able to differentiate subtext from friendship though.
>>122277024
>>122277093
She wants to save Madoka. She wants to protect her. Because she cares a lot about Madoka. She's her best friend. They emphasize this a lot. The final episode is called "My Best Friend." Not marry her/date her. She rewrote the whole fucking universe and did all kinds of crazy shit. If she really loved her romantically she would have at least kissed her/dated her after all that trouble. Like I said, love is not a one-dimensional word. It can mean a lot of things. I love my mom to death and would go through living hell for her. Doesn't mean I want to marry her.
I admit, it's really cute to see it as they "love love" each other. We all like that, but it doesn't mean it's canon. And in the end who cares if they're not gay. Shaft pleases all of us anyway. You'll get shots and artwork of them interacting and being close. Madoka/Homu/Sayaka/Kyouko aren't homos. But if you want to pretend they are go ahead. It's probably what made Madoka so popular anyway.
>>122277286
Their relationship is nothing like friends nor was it ever. Friendship is an equal relationship and Homura has always been subservient to Madoka.
>>122277353
They were friends for sure.
If I suck my own dick is that mean we're just friends.
>>122277391
Based on what? Outside of Homura's magic delusions in Rebellion when did they ever do something that friends do?
>>122277413
Because of all the magic shit they couldn't do a lot of the usual friends shit. But yeah they were friends. Just because Homura was really shy at first doesn't mean she wasn't Madoka's friend. Homu, Mami and Madoka were friends. Stop trying to deny this just because you want your headcanon to be the real canon.
>>122277286
>Using the titles as proof of context.
The titles played with the meaning and relationships with the show in a subversive manner. That was half the point as a deconstructive show of the genre. Yes, the title is "my best friend" but it comes from something akin to an unreliable narrator. Go back through the titles and watch the show again. There's more than what's on the surface, much like homura and madoka's relationship.
Was this thread really necessary to confirm Madoka and Homu were friends? What the fuck else would they be?
>>122277503
Lovers.
>>122277479
>using the titles
Uh, Madoka herself said it during a very important scene. I'm pretty sure it's more than just titles.
>>122277455
You did not answer my question so I will ask again. Based on what do you consider them friends?
>>122277503
We all love them as this >>122277541
But being the honest guy I am I had to disagree with the "homolust" canon. Naturally people get upset but that's okay.
>>122277545
That's Madoka's perspective. Most of this argument is about how Homura feels for Madoka and how in love with Madoka she is. There is also the unspoken or possibly unrealized love Madoka has for Homura.
>>122277569
Madoka, Mami and Homu were friends. This was shown. They treated each other like friends, hell Madoka fucking says it.
Just because Homura was shy doesn't mean she wasn't their friend.
>>122277593
Yes, it's Madoka's perspective. But Homu using the word love doesn't necessarily mean she means it in a romantic way.
I would go through hell for the people I really care about. I can say I "love" those people. Doesn't mean I want to marry them. Of course I'm not saying there's no way Homura can be gay. I'm just saying it's not confirmed and it's just a headcanon for now. We know Madoka is really popular because of the yurifags, and there's nothing wrong with that.
>>122277541
I mean canonically, it's not even fucking close and probably never will be based on Mr. Uro. Sure I want it to happen too, but if I sink as low as desperately deluding myself of something that isn't there, I promised myself it's time for me to stop watching anime. Hasn't happened yet though, which is why I'm one of the people arguing with you.
>>122277413
In Rebellion, where everyone has no memories for the first half, everyone interacts as friends.
Also there are numerous side material that depict how the magis relationships would've turned out if they had lived a normal life. Madoka and Homura's relationship is still very much homoerotic (and mutual, should I add.)
Just because Homura's feelings warped into a obsession due to her hell journey doesn't mean they didn't start off as friends.
>>122277595
>Madoka, Mami and Homu were friends.
Not an answer to my question
>This was shown
Not an answer to my question
>They treated each other like friends
I am asking for examples not you just telling me what you believe.
>Madoka fucking says it.
I'm saying that I am an alien guess that makes it true.
What I am looking for are examples of Madoka and Homura doing things that friends do. Hanging out, gossiping, making jokes, playing games, etc.
>>122277286
I totally agree with you. Too many people seeing romantic love everywhere they go. Just recently, someone told me the friends in Brokeback Mountain were gay. I mean seriously? They just had a very deep friendship, helping each each other through loneliness, that's all. One of them was married even.This is what you sound like, faggot.
>>122277670
I already answered that >>122277455
Because of their situation they couldn't really do a lot of the "normal" stuff a lot. Or maybe it just wasn't shown.
The anime showed them sitting around drinking tea, eating cake, having conversations, practicing their fights, that's what friends do. Just because Homura was shy doesn't mean somehow it wasn't a friendship.
>>122277670
>What I am looking for are examples of Madoka and Homura doing things that friends do.
The entire show. It doesn't even matter though, because all he needs is to disprove they're not romantic since that's the real debate. And he can do that by doing nothing because there's nothing there.
>I'm saying that I am an alien guess that makes it true.
So does the show title, so does Uro, and I think some other staff members too.
>>122277709
>name-calling
>poor analogy with a completely different movie
I know you're upset but please come up with a better response. It's not like I'm insulting your waifu. I'm just saying it's possible that she might NOT be homo. That's it. Calm your tits.
>>122274597
It's simple really:
ammount of physical contact (meaning the peak, or greatest event of physical activity) - level of purity (average of the two) = potential for yuri
if we assume that purity and physical contact can be measured on sliding scales from 1-10 ( eg: high fives being 1, making out being a 10; no concept of romantic love being 1 and mind-breaking nymphomaniac being 10) we can easily account for yuri ( a negative value meaning no possibility for yuri, less than five meaning the two characters acknowlegde their behavior hinges on yuri, though are either incapable of advancing the feelings, or simply believe the relationship to be something "beyond romance", and a value greater than 5 implying that yuri is imminent, if not already occurring.
so madoka and homura :
7 ( debatable ) - 4 ([3+5]/2) = 3
that's that.
>>122277709
The guys in Brokeback Mountain had their dicks up their asses, how is this even relevant to the friendship we're discussing? If all they did was literally nothing but go on an adventure together where nothing remotely romantic happened, then you can compare them.
>>122277736
>since that's the real debate
I'm not even arguing that retard. I never argued that. Homura's feelings for Madoka are absolutely ambiguous. Does she want to fuck her? I don't know. But what is not ambiguous is that they are not friends. Friends are not hyper obsessed with each other. Friends do not base their whole lives and all their actions on each other. What Homura has for Madoka is obsession not friendship. That was the whole god damn point of rebellion. It ends with her denying Madoka's own wishes. That is not what a friend does. I even wonder if she cares about Madoka at all as a person. She may just like the concept of Madoka (a wonderful thing she must protect) similar to the way religious people idolize god.
>>122277755
She's totally homo,but deserves better than Madoka.
Since this is all an endless chain of disagreements I'll just end it with this.
I'm not saying there's no way Homu can be gay. I'm just saying it's not confirmed yet. Love isn't a one-dimensional word, stop pretending it is. I would go through hell for the people I "love", doesn't mean I want to marry them.
>Homura loves Madoka
True but that doesn't automatically mean it's in a romantic way. They clearly emphasize that Homu wants to save/protect/make Madoka happy. Not to date/marry her like a love interest. Madoka and Sayaka loved Mami as their senpai. Sayaka I'm sure loved Madoka too. Not as lovers though.
>but she went through so much
Yeah, I would also go through all that for my loved ones. Doesn't mean I want to marry them.
>but all the shots/artwork
Pandering to you, which is great.
We all like the yuri shipping but that doesn't mean it's 100% canon. That's all I'm gonna say.
I'll bet you think Fafner is gay too because Kazuki and Soushi have such deep bond.
Even if Homura sees Madoka that way, it's completely one-sided.
>>122277934
>We all like the yuri shipping
Speak for yourself. Shit like Homura full-face blushing and stuttering her words is annoying as fuck. Madoka usually turns into a annoying slutty bitch in that shit too. I hate yurifags most of the time.
>>122277934
>Doesn't mean I want to marry them.
Says you. I don't buy it.
Yuri only exists in manga.
>>122277111
At some point in Mayushii's route, yes, that's kinda plausible.
>>122274597
Why are people arguing this?
Of course anything "x" is still "x" no matter how small!
And no, saying that it cannot be classified as yuri simply because the love is one-sided will make every single harem shows null due to the fact that the romance in it are one-sided as well
>>122278580
Harems aren't romance unless a girl (or more) wins, which usually happens.
