"Anno is the George Lucas of anime."
>>115455263
thats an insult to Anno. Lucas is a clown.
He's actually a good director.
Wish he'd stop with the Evangelion crap and actually direct other anime. Until then he is the George Lucas of anime.
>>115455477
Why?
George Lucas. In the saga of Star Wars. Created a world of strange beings with a wide range of personalities.
>>115455794
Because George Lucas had some pretty stupid ideas, which were filtered out in the episodes IV, V and VI by his editors and other members on the set while Episodes I, II and III are basically 100% George Lucas because nobody dare oppose him due to the how well IV, V and VI were received.
Rebuild is the Star Wars prequels of anime.
>>115455263
accurate
>>115455572
He's making too much money from Eva to stop.
>>115456431
So it's going to spawn some fantastic video games and a good animated series?
>It's like poetry
>>115455794
George wasn't actually responsible for much of the work done on the original trilogy. He was ordered by the studio to have other people do certain things that he would have ordinarily done himself. A lot.
When the decision to make the prequels came around, he was for some reason given full reign over many decisions, and the result is the awful mess that is apparent in Menace to Revenge.
I read in an interview with one of the top guys that worked on Menace that when the final screening was shown to people who had worked on it, they all sat in silence, even when George asked them with a grin what they all thought. They all knew it was shit, and no one wanted to say anything.
>>115456431
No. The Star Wars prequels were the Naruto of anime. The Rebuild equivalent of Star Wars will be the new trilogy coming out next year with VII.
>>115456231
In that case, Ikuhara is way closer to Lucas than Anno. The problem with Anno is that he's washed up and his team (pretty much the same guys who worked with him on NGE) are washed up too. It's not the same case of the prequels
>>115456929
Do you know who said that? I would love to read more about those who worked with Lucas during the time he shat out the prequels.
>>115455477
Who just made 4.7 billion on gamble made by a man who was in all reality a FX guy?
No really, how much has Eva made total? How truly well known is teh rei known outside of /a/, some otaku, and the "high art" scene?
>>115458420
Gundam is actually bigger than Eva even in Japan.
>>115458420
Well, how popular is Star Wars in Japan, I always wondered about that.
>>115458472
No shit, Sherlock.
Anno hates the Eva fanbase because at the time, it was made up of typical mecha fans who were anal devastated that the plot was too deep for them and that the story didn't reach a solid conclusion, and typical otaku who only cared for the girls. He especially hates Rei fans, because he wrote Rei to be a detestable character. After the TV series ended, Gainax were bombarded with death threats, and their entire studio was vandalised. Even when he was making The End of Evangelion, this happened, and the anime community supported the vandalism because he wasn't making the movie fast enough, which led to him releasing Death and Rebirth just to appease the "fans".
Meanwhile, the female side of the fanbase sent Gainax fan letters and gifts, complimenting Anno for trying something new with the mecha genre, thoughtful critiques on how Eva could've been bettered or improved if not for the low budget (which they acknowledged, unlike the neckbeards,) thank-you notes for writing in female characters and a philosophical story that felt genuinely important and real.
And /a/ wonders why there was so much fujoshit pandering in 3.0...
>>115458529
>women
>understanding and having logical thoughts
Impossible.
Anno needs another hit that isn't Eva.
That or he needs depression again.
Other then that he's an extremely talented director who can do wonders with low budgets. Not sure about his writing abilities though.
>>115458529
>And /a/ wonders why there was so much fujoshit pandering in 3.0...
It's also because Anno is a huge fan of shoujo and romance. And Kaworu being the anime embodiment of his repressed homosexual fantasies and lifelong crush, Iku-Chan.
I agree about the fujoshit stuff, out of all of the entire fanbase, the female fans and fujoshits are probably the sanest bunch out of the lot.
>>115457150
I'm going to say that flat out, I don't like Utena or early Sailor Moon or honestly anything that Ikuhara has ever done.
That being said, I still think he deserves credit for that stuff because he genuinely had ideas and conveyed his own very weird vision. It's not like George Lucas where the hack director got credit for coming up with everything when the other people working on the film saved it from being a complete disaster.
Fuck George, so much for 'preserving films'.
>>115456616
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxU2eqZtYmc
I hate that fucking hack.
Worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
>>115458734
Who wrote the Eva script? Rei's poetic monologue is awesome.
>>115455263
Koichi Mashimo is the George Lucas of anime.
>started his own company to run everything his way
>directs most of the projects himself
>all the shows he works on suck and the only decent ones are the ones done by someone else
>>115459931
I cringed so fucking hard.
>>115458734
>Anno needs another hit that isn't Eva.
I consider Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou to be even better than Eva. He just couldn't ever finish it because of a combination of GAINAX being indited for tax fraud and the manga author hating how he 'changed' the story. Which he changed it for the better over the rather weak manga.
>>115460332
Anno did it.
>>115460332
Tite Kubo.
>>115460983
Not him. But I doubt Anno wrote the story for every single episode. Considering the huge swings in consistency and the massive time constraints they were under to get it done in time.
>>115455263
But it's true. He made some good shit when he was younger and had constraints and people who would tell him that some of his ideas are bad. Now that he's famous and has nigh unlimited money, he makes shit because everyone is afraid to tell him no, and thus adds dark splotches to otherwise good franchises.
That paragraph applies to both Lucas and Anno. Lucas at least sold his shit to someone who could fix it. Anno never will.
>>115455263
That's Tomino.
>>115461382
>Lucas at least sold his shit to someone who could fix it.
I SERIOUSLY hope you are not implying JJ Abrams and Disney are 'fixing' Star Wars. Once the new movies come out, you're gonna claim they are worse than even Phantom Menace.
Not to mention them destroying 25 years of Star Wars books/video games/specials.
>>115461420
Tomino made one thing and spent the rest of his career whining about his audience.
>>115456231
A new Hope is really the only movie from the first trilogy that you could contribute to Lucas.
>>115457150
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I haven't seen Utena but Penguindrum is absolutely nothing like Star Wars. Not in its style, execution, or purpose.
The biggest vision shift, however, came from George Lucas himself. According to one source, Lucas took statues of Darth Maul and Darth Talon - a character from the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse - faced them toward one another, and declared, "They're friends!" When it was brought to Lucas' attention that Maul and Talon lived more than a century and a half apart from one another, Lucas reportedly suggested it could be a clone or descendant that players controlled instead of the original Maul.
Only if 4.0 doesn't deliver
>>115455263
34 responses in a little over two hours
It's so patently false that it doesn't even work as a troll
Anno confirmed as Living Genius
>>115461869
Man, I feel bad for Star Wars fans. I can't imagine the despair people felt when the finished seeing the Phantom Menace for the first time.
>>115457646
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIWKMgJs_Gs&list=RDIdQwKPVGQsY#t=76
A little late anon.
>>115462199
>Plinkett will never review Rebuild.
kill me
>>115462196
I saw Star Wars about 25 times in theatre back in the day, and "Nope!"d out hard at the second trailer for Phantom Menace.
At least with the rebuilds, I didn't do that until the second one.
>>115460930
>>all the shows he works on suck and the only decent ones are the ones done by someone else
Well shit, Hyouge Mono was done by someone else?
>>115462196
I didn't feel despair. Just confusion. Most people had the same view. THey went in expecting to learn the origins of Darth Vader and an 'action' movie like Return of the Jedi. Instead, they got a whiny kid, really hammy acting and Ang Lee lightsaber acrobatics.
Anyone with half a brain could follow the plot. Anakin turns into Darth Vader. Palpatine uses him to gain power. Its everything else that shat on the old movies/books that made us go 'wtf'? Especially Anakin building C-3PO and Anakin coming from Tatooine. Seriously Lucas...does EVERY aspect of Star Wars have to revolve around the most boring desert world in the galaxy? I think if so many important characters kept going through that damn planet over 2000 years, even people in the story would start to notice.
>>115461831
That's not saying much A New Hope is not a fantastic movie and it was only saved through editing anyway
>>115462196
I grew up with the original trilogy airing on TV. I saw all 3 of the prequels on the theater expecting the best. My dad took me to watch all 3, I was 14 when Episode III came out.I miss you dad ;_;
>>115462549
>>115462549
It's not, but Empire and Return of the Jedi are masterpieces. And guess who directed them? Not Lucas.
>>115462549
To be fair, Lucas was one of the two people who edited A New Hope and 'fixed' it. Which just makes it all the more confusing that Phantom Menace is one of the worst edited movies in history. Its like they picked every single scene that has the worst acting and biggest gaffs. Then put those in the final product.
>>115462549
It may not have aged well, especially as Hollywood has been on a big nerd thing in recent years, but when it came out in '77 it was the first decent big budget sci-fi movie there had been.
>>115462526
The plot turned out to be way more retarded than I remembered as a kid.
Palpatine's scheme doesn't make any logical sense on any level.
>>115462660
>Empire
>Jedi
>masterpieces
Empire is clearly the crowning jewel of the series. But Return of the Jedi suffers from most of the same problems as the other movies. Slapdash cuts, multiple plot lines with no consistency in flow, hammy overacting, etc.
If anything, Empire Strikes Back just feels like an amazingly well developed drama story in an otherwise tongue and cheek series. Like a serious filler arc in Naruto focusing on Shikimaru. Where the rest of Naruto is horribly predictable and trite.
>>115462526
>>115462754
You're putting way too much into a dumb sci-fi adventure movie series.
>>115462660
lol.
>>115455263
>"Anno is the George Lucas of anime."
I can see how someone could think that, from not knowing much about both.
Both have a bad rap for remakes that to the fans, are butchering the product.
>>115455263
Were there people who defended Star Wars Episode I the way people defend 3.0?
Because I'd put them on the same level.
>>115462715
That's true, but it was still a group effort and I think someone else edited the Phantom Menace right?
>>115462744
I definitely appreciate the film, it really should have been much worse than it was.
>>115462932
People who defend Star Wars Ep. 1 are actually fucking crazy, that movie is unbearable
>>115462932
>Were there people who defended Star Wars Episode I the way people defend 3.0?
Yes. Mostly the biggest Star Wars fans who didn't want to admit they wasted 15 years waiting for a new movie.
>mfw the new movies by JJ Abrams come out
They could literally make a story about Luke and Han going around riding Banthas for 2 hours and people would obsess over it. Just because 'Star Wars' is on the title.
>>115462744
Pretty sure there had been others. Like 2001: A Space Odyssey and Forbidden Planet. Which were very high budget for their time.
>decent
That's pretty much your personal opinion. And this is coming from someone who doesn't like the movies I just listed.
>>115463017
I thought those were the people who went back and saw the movie like ten times and realized they hated it.
>>115462799
RotJ had a lot of problems, but I feel it delivered where it needed to. It was a fun movie and it was a great end to Darth Vader and Luke's story. Imo it's miles above A New Hope which I found really boring and with some terrible writing.
>>115456231
Is there a site that lists these rejected ideas? Google does nothing
>>115462346
>At least with the rebuilds, I didn't do that until the second one.
2.0 was where the fun seemed to be unfold. Too bad 3.0 blew it, which made them both shit.
I take my bet on Anno pulling some insane shit with 3.0 + 1.0 and starting another 15 years flamewar on whether Rebuild was shit or not.
Anno just wishes he was as cool as Shimamotou.
>>115463315
Handsome as fuck.
AlsoMasked Rider
>>115463310
The only reason 2.0 was acceptable was because we thought it was setting up 3.0.
When I watched 2.0, I didn't even think about the movie I just saw, I wanted to see what happened next. I was hyped about the preview for 3.0.
You're absolutely right because it's amazing how you can watch 2.0 now and realize how fucking horrible it is because you know it doesn't go anywhere.
What would a Star Wars anime be like, /a/?
>>115463117
Some of them did. Like my sister who is one of the biggest Star Wars fans alive. But after a few years, even she started to realize the prequels were bad and didn't live up to her idealized view of the first three movies.
But other Star Wars fans are in complete denial. Plus, the legion of kids who got into the series with the prequels (and stuff like Clone Wars or the video games). These younger people not only liked the prequel movies, but many of them prefer them.
And here's the mind blowing part. Those 'kids' are now old enough to post on 4chan. Since Phantom Menace is 15 years old. Imagine all those millions of kids defending the new JJ Abrams movies. Which are just going to be a glorified Transformers clone with the Star Wars name tacked on.
>>115463310
With all the Gerry Anderson spaceships and pink titty girl in the trailers, and the "let's replace one of the major characters with someone who just looks a bit like her", my reaction, in the words of Han Solo were "I have a bad feeling about this." Then the plot summaries started trickling out
>>115463433
Like a Final Fantasy game with a weak anime conversion.
>"Anno is the George Lucas of anime."
He really is.
>>115463433
"Wow MC is such a faggot why couldn't it be this alpha badass Han instead?"
"when do Luke and Leia fug?"
"Are they still on Hoth?"
"WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK?"
>>115463477
Man, I was completely suckered in. Now whenever I rewatch 2.0, I'm filled with disgust and self-loathing. It's so fucking bad.
>>115463546
Anno actually has talent though
He just doesn't put much thought into what he makes.
>>115463546
>just make everything digital
>it looks just like real life!
The Star Wars prequels had uncanney valley syndrome the very first time they were shown. The CGI looked bad even for its time. Considering they were some of the biggest budget movies up to that time, its really idiotic.
Yet the plastic models in the old movies still stand up. And the models in the Star Trek movies were 100x better (also done by ILM). Its completely stupid why Lucas threw 30+ years of technology out the window and jumped on cheap CG. But I guess you can't argue with sales.
>>115463636
I think he used to be a fine director, but he's a shitty writer.
>>115461601
Lucas made 2 things.
>>115463546
He's right though. It would be better if they were just done completely by computer. I really hope, although I doubt it'll happen, that the sequels aren't live action, because Hamill and Ford are just plain too old to be the main characters for this type of movie.
>>115463439
tcw is alright
>>115463481
>those lips
>>115461456
We don't know anything about the movies, but SW Rebels has been good so far and they made the good decision of throwing out the EU while leaving the old canon guys in charge.
>>115458529
>he wrote Rei to be a detestable character
Really? Doesn't seem that way. Maybe he was just baffled by the response to the character.
Asuka was written more detestably and look at her treatment in Rebuild.
>>115463699
>He's right though.
george please go
>>115463683
>Lucas made 2 things.
He made 3 movies before even Star Wars. And his best work was writing the first three Indiana Jones movies. But he even ruined that series.
Its all further proof that Lucas has good ideas, but can't execute them well. Some people are good at producing, others at directing. Lucas is a producer...but needs other people to form his ideas into a solid work.
>>115456231
/tv/ Lucas
/co/ Bryke
/a/ Anno, Tomino, Urobucchi
Who does /v/ have?
>>115462744
>has not aged well
It is still one of the best movies of all time. It is impossible to rewatch SW and not get chills during the 20 minute trench run.
>>115463757
>>115463757
The guys behind Metroid other M?
>>115463757
Yoshio Sakamoto.
Who fits the George Lucas mold much more closely than Anno.
Urobuchi is like the anti-Lucas where everyone thinks he's really good but also that he keeps getting screwed over by producers/the studio.
>>115463735
>He made 3 movies
American literally who? No one cares about lucas's hipster trash.
>>115463727
>and they made the good decision of throwing out the EU while leaving the old canon guys in charge.
You are literally the apologetic cancer killing the Star Wars series.
Many of those 'EU' things were done by the people who worked on the first three movies. Such as X-Wing/Tie Fighter video games. Which were directly overseen by the Lucasarts crew that worked on Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi.
Throwing out all of the EU was the dumbest thing they could ever do. Because they 'decanonized' the best parts of Star Wars. Especially the Thrawn Trilogy, which should have been the basis for the new movies. Now we're just gonna get a group of kids who go on an adventure and rebel against their parents (aka Han, Leia and Luke).
>>115463757
Also, Tomino is /m/.
And nobody cares about Tomino.
>>115463792
That doesn't work unless he was a big Metroid guy already.
>>115463813
>no one cares
Sadly, the AFI actually listed it as one of their 'top 100 movies'. All the more reasons to fucking ignore AFI.
But he also did two other movies besides American Graffiti.
>>115463665
>And the models in the Star Trek movies were 100x better
Any time a ship blew up in a Trek movie it was a fucking masterpiece. Star Wars just covered the ship with an explosion effect, Star Trek let you watch the ship break apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58hVEY5Og
It was always so glorious.
>>115463729
She was supposed to be this weird uncanny valley sort of not quite human, but she just came over as this kuudere. They should have gone with Ikuni's suggestion that Rei should be married and pregnant in the last episode.
more lucas webms
>>115463731
>On /a/
>Wouldn't choose animation over live action
And no, that it's CG doesn't make it not animation. Plus, with the amount of CG the Star Wars have in them pretty much the only thing that isn't CG is the actors. So I really don't see the point.
>>115463819
I never got to "catch up" with SW like I wanted to, but as I understand it a lot of stuff has already been bought back in the new canon sources. For example the first official novel bought back a lot of Shadows of the Empire stuff. I think they should officially bring back some of the stuff fans like, but the guys in charge of canon seem to be SW guys and not Disney guys so it's not really an issue.
>>115463729
Rei was "detestable" but not in that sense. Rei was written to be a cosmic horror in Shinji's mother lookalike disguise, Asuka was a problematic childwho also was Anno's waifu. Also NGE's Asuka is not Rebuild's Asuka.
Shinji was really terrified by Rei near the end of NGE.
>>115463801
Urobucchi is /a/'s Weisman?
>>115463792
>>115463830
The guy behind Metroid Other M was one of the two co-creators of Metroid. And directed Metroid 1, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission.
The comparison with him to Lucas is apt. But blaming him for 'killing Metroid' is a little out there. He didn't make three crappy crappy games, then sell the rights to Metroid to another company. Like Lucas did to Star Wars. He made one bad game out of five. And a lot of the things in Other M were things the fanbase was crying for. Especially 'fleshing out Samus character' and 'a darker storyline'. The fanbase just didn't like how it turned out.
>>115463830
Sakamoto fits it to a T, because he WAS the director for all of the 2D games.
Then when he got complete control over a game, he made one of the worst video games of all time and called it his true vision for the series.
There's not a lot of concrete evidence that his team was more responsible for the good parts of Metroid than he was, but there's a lot of speculation and circumstantial stuf.
>>115463865
>CGI
>animaytion
>>115463900
Urobutcher is just the Urobutcher of /a/, I can't think of any other unimaginative SUFFERING writer that is actually success in other media.
>>115463900
I'm completely unfamiliar, but sure why not.
>>115463865
the comparison to be made is hand-drawn animation vs CG animation, which is pretty much NGE vs rebuild
rebuild's hand-drawn scenes are gorgeous, but the amount of CG in 3.0 is literally nauseating
>>115463950
GRR Martin?
>>115463920
>And a lot of the things in Other M were things the fanbase was crying for. Especially 'fleshing out Samus character' and 'a darker storyline'.
That's a load of horseshit. First off, the story wasn't dark, it was retarded.
Secondly, Fusion already tried to flesh out Samus' character and had the same fucking story as Other M and Fusion's the only prior Metroid with strongly divided opinions and a lot of detractors.
Even if for some completely retarded reason Sakamoto listened to the western fanbase (he didn't), nobody was going to be clamoring for more Fusion. Especially not a confusing interquel that contradicts literally every single game in the canon.
>>115463757
Sakamoto
Guy's a real cunt.
>>115463757
>I don't like the new gundam series.
Fuck off with your tomino hate.
>>115463846
Fun fact. There have been 12 different Enterprise models made. half of them have been destroyed in scenes like that one. They even made a completely unique 'destroyed' models just to film certain scenes.
Just shows the level of dedication ILM put into a series that wasn't even related to Star Wars. And how far they could go when given the freedom.
The new Star Trek films with their entirely CGI ships can go rot in hell. Just wait until the same thing happens to Star Wars. Oh the cries that will fill the universe...so delicious.
>>115464036
Perhaps, but I forgive GRRM for my good dose of blatant incest.
>>115463962
The control room for the ship was so bad I couldn't decide between laughing or vomiting.
Why is there so little american nerdy shitty that isnt "I'm such a nerd" oppurtunism shit?
>star wars
>star trek
>superheroes
>I dunno like korra or something
yet japs get 30 new series a month, why does it suck being white?
>>115463962
I'm not making a comparison though, I'm just talking about Star Wars's case.
>>115464036
Yes on the suffering, no on the Urobutcher comparison because Gen actually works unlike that lazy fat fuck.
>>115464084
Wasn't Fate/Zero this close to have uncle on prepubescent niece incest?
>>115463962
What is he doing here, anyway?
>>115464069
>The new Star Trek films with their entirely CGI ships can go rot in hell. Just wait until the same thing happens to Star Wars.
It happened to Star Wars first though.
>>115464105
it doesn't though. thanks to the internet even if we can't speak the language we can still enjoy a lot of it.
>>115464105
Why does America hate nerds so much anyway?
>>115464163
Fucking up and doing a rush job.
He's scribbling in what's real and what's a CG effect. Yellow is CG and pink is practical.
>>115464163
I think he's coloring what will and will not be CGI.
star wars = lego
star trek = kreo
>>115464163
marking what parts will be cg which will be sets
>>115464183
I don't know, I thought we invented nerds;_;
>>115463920
He killed it. It's dead. Other M was a flop and it's been seven years since it came out and we don't have a new Metroid.
>>115464105
What are you even asking?
>why isn't there more nerdy stuff in America
Because Hollywood runs nearly everything. And they always look down on anything that isn't 'drama'. SciFi never wins any awards beyond 'best design'.
In Japan, they are open to multiple types of stories. Just look at the wild variation of Miyazaki works. Crazy fantasy tales about kids riding in a cat bus or a girl who is a witch in a realistic European city.
These types of stories would never work in America. They would just be laughed at. You only get this kind of stuff from international markets. Even Harry Potter would have been rejected by a western company if the books weren't so big beforehand. And even then, Hollywood did turn Harry Potter into overly dramatic shit.
>>115464166
True. I guess like everyone, I wanted to forget the prequels even happened.
>>115464228
We did. We also invented nerd bullying.
>>115464248
"Give me your lunch money, nerd!" has gone pro is all.
>>115464248
>Even Harry Potter would have been rejected by a western company if the books weren't so big beforehand
Even the book was rejected repeatedly by publishers though wasn't it?
>>115464245
First of all, it was 7 years between Super Metroid and Fusion/Prime.
Second of all, Miyamoto stated he is wanting to see more Metroid on countless occasions. The most recent one being at E3 this year.
Third of all, you're a moron. Stop spouting this 'Metroid is dead' crap.
>>115464248
>These types of stories would never work in America. They would just be laughed at.
Disney
>>115464336
Frozen
>>115464300
It was, more than 10 times. Imagine their faces after it became big. The chance to swim in massive money, gone.
>>115464288
>"Give me your lunch money, nerd!" has gone pro is all.
Most of the major executives in Hollywood admit to being the 'nerds' that got picked on. They're just trying to hide it by making huge budget action movies and overly dramatic drivel.
The biggest issue when it comes to Hollywood is, most people are just following trends. Lord of the Rings was a huge success? Let's make tons of fantasy movies for a few years! A film about pirates did well? Let's make a dozen Pirate movies! Oh shit, a scifi dystopian story sold well? Let's make a dozen of those!
etc. etc.
>>115464350
So?
>>115464336
2D is dead and their 3D follows the same Broadway musical formula that their 2D did for the past 20 years. Plundered fairy tale after plundered fairy tale.
>>115464392
Not the point. Disney made a lot of "kiddie" movies which where extremely well received.
>>115464336
>Disney
You mean taking well known folk tales and ruining them? That's hardly the same thing. Especially since Disney as a company uses the same formula for every single movie. They just change the setting and art design. But the character archetypes and story is always the same. Hero is ostracized by the community. Hero leaves on a journey. Hero defeats some random 'bad guy' (usually not related to the original segregation). Hero returns and is welcomed into the community.
Its always the same fucking thing. Doesn't matter if you call it Mulan or A Bugs Life.
>>115463717
It's Adam Warren's calling card, along with great butts and out of date slang.
>>115464387
Wait, isn't it the same thing with anime?
>>115464426
In part because for a long time they were essentially the only game in town.
>>115464426
A movie being 'kiddie' wasn't the original point either. Miyazaki movies aren't 'kiddie'. They're aimed at general audiences. And have wide variations in tone and content. You can't claim Laputa, Whisper of the Heart and Mononokehime are similar. One is an optimistic adventure story, the other is a slice of life romance and the third is a dark mythology story.
Disney movies follow basically the same 2-3 set formulas every time.
>>115464487
>But the character archetypes and story is always the same.
But Miyazaki does the same thing. Strong female character. Protect nature, mhkay? Scary things happen.
>>115464498
Anime follows trends, sure. But they also have plenty of unique stories as well. Between 2000-2006, ecchi harems were produced like candyt in Japan. Didn't stop them from also making some very different series like Hajime no Ippo, Princess Tutu, Angelic Layer, Haruhi, etc.
And all of the examples I just provided above are types of shows that would never be greenlit by a Hollywood producer.
>>115464553
>A movie being 'kiddie' wasn't the original point either. Miyazaki movies aren't 'kiddie'. They're aimed at general audiences.
So are Disney's, and I wasn't using "kiddie" literally.
>And have wide variations in tone and content.
And Disney doesn't? You're gonna tell me Aladdin and the Hunchback of Notre Dame are the same thing?
>>115464487
The last Disney movie (Frozen, was it) played with those. Movies have been solid recently.
>Miyazaki
Same characters, same themes, can't write an ending for shit.
>>115464570
>But Miyazaki does the same thing. Strong female character. Protect nature, mhkay?
Lupin Sansei
Proco Rosso
Kiki's Delivery Service
Whisper of the Heart
Whoops. He broke his formula.
>>115464633
>Hajime no Ippo
Wow, you're retarded.
>>115464633
It's because Japan doesn't have a Hollywood equivalent of animu yet. God bless them.
>>115464674
>You're gonna tell me Aladdin and the Hunchback of Notre Dame are the same thing?
Read >>115464487
Yes, they use the same basic formula. Just a different setting and theme.
Aladdin and Hunchback? Yes, they're set in different time periods. But they still have the same basic formula of a main protagonist who feels like an outsider. Then does something 'heroic' to gain favor by the community. Defeats an 'evil' guy (who is really forced into the plot). And then is graciously acepted by the community as a hero.
>>115464682
>Sansei
You can drop the weeaboo bullshit, you're not impressing anyone. Also, don't try to pretend that Castle of Cagliostro wasn't more in line with his later works than the Lupin series up to that point.
>>115464686
Nice counter point. You sure told him off with all those examples of why he's retarded.
>>115464682
>Not every single thing follows the pattern.
>Means the pattern doesn't exist.
Oh, and
>Forgetting about Grave of the Fireflies.
If there was one movie you should have mentioned it was that one.
>>115464742
Reductionism is stupid.
>>115464764
What, aside from the fact that Ippo is an adaptation of a 25 year old manga?
>>115464753
>you dared to call something by its Japanese name!
>WEEABOO
Someone really needs to come up with a counter term for idiots like you. Who have to scream weeaboo anytime they feel like a Japanese reference is 'too Japanese'. Just because you love Adult Swim for removing all Japanese references from anime doesn't mean everyone else has to be like you.
>Also, don't try to pretend that Castle of Cagliostro wasn't more in line with his later works than the Lupin series up to that point.
Miyazaki was co creator of the original Lupin concept. And directed many of the series episodes. Including a large bulk of the first season.
See, this is the kind of thing you'd know if you were 'weeaboo' enough.
>>115464742
>But they still have the same basic formula of a main protagonist who feels like an outsider. Then does something 'heroic' to gain favor by the community. Defeats an 'evil' guy (who is really forced into the plot). And then is graciously acepted by the community as a hero.
This is one of the most common storylines you can come across. You can apply it to a shitton of stories. It's also nice how you ignored the "tone and content" part completely.
Also,
>Lion King
>Pocahontas
>Little Mermaid
>>115463900
No, Urobucchi is Christopher Nolan.
>>115464817
Not the other anon, but how does that void the point that animu in 2000-2006 periods are varied and one of the variation is the like of Ippo?
>>115464867
Who is the quentin tarantino of anime? The monogatari guy?
>>115464768
Miyazaki didn't write or direct Grave of the Fireflies. Nor did he have anything to do with Ocean Waves, Pom Poko, Only Yesterday or The Tale of Princess Kaguya. They were all done by a guy named Isao Takahata. The co founder of Ghibli.
Good job killing your entire rebuttal.
>>115464885
I'd say Imaishi.
>>115464885
Gainax. Always.
>>115464817
Over 90% of all anime are adaptations of other sources and not original creations. Doesn't change the fact that someone actually greenlit a boxing manga in an era when Love Hina and Mahoromatic was the 'trend'. They could have adapted hundreds of shitty romance/ecchi manga besides Hajime no Ippo.
>>115464939
(citation needed)
>>115464838
>Miyazaki was co creator of the original Lupin concept
Damn, that was pretty funny.
>>115464899
I still see don't where you prooved where that having some films outside of a patterns means the pattern doesn't exist though.
>>115464708
kyoani is trying
>>115464853
>Lion King
>Little Mermaid
...are you seriously claiming these stories don't follow the formula?
>Pocahontas
That one did try to be different. And saw a 75% drop in sales as a result. Hence why most of the Disney productions that followed went right back to the old formula.
Every time Disney tries to deviate from their set formula, they see a huge downturn in sales. The only movie to ever see a successful bump which went away from the 'formula' was Lilo and Stitch. And Disney soon killed their 2D animation department after it came out.
>>115464939
They greenlit an adaptation of a popular long running series. So adventurous.
>>115464742
Dude you can apply that "formula" to almost every popular story ever written.
>>115464387
I haven't seen a dozen fantasy or pirate movies, but I have seen 15 years of superhero movies that will never die
>>115464988
>just because a few movies don't follow the trend, that doesn't mean there isn't a formula
>people using the exact opposite argument to defend Disney
This thread has officially become retarded.
>>115464633
Hollywood produces unique stories as well. You would know this if you paid attention to any releases besides the high-budget blockbusters.
>>115465021
I don't think it's not about daring to take risks, but about more open to different possibilities.
>>115464992
>...are you seriously claiming these stories don't follow the formula?
Yes? I mean, are you seriously claiming the Lion King is about an outsider and not growing up and being responsible?
And I haven't watched the Little Mermaid in a while, but last time I checked, it was about a girl running from her home, not being an outsider trying to be accepted.
>>115465026
>superhero movies that will never die
Feel free to correct me, but I took this as your saying that shit like the Avengers is going to stand the test of time, when even now people never talk about it.
>>115465025
>Dude you can apply that "formula" to almost every popular story ever written.
Citizen Kane, MacBeth, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Final Fantasy VII, etc.
Yes, I chose all those examples just to piss you off. Because they are far more popular than they should be. But they also don't follow the Disney formula at all.
>>115464992
The Little Mermaid is just a Madoka ripoff anyway.
>>115464838
>Miyazaki was co creator of the original Lupin concept
You can't be this retarded, it's impossible.
>>115465123
I mean they've been milking this cow since 2000 and there's no end in sight
>>115465143
>Neon Genesis Evangelion
>Not about being accepted
>>115465021
>I was totally proven wrong
>I'll just cite how the manga was popular
Still doesn't change the original argument. That anime was producing tons of ecchi harems. But a studio (in this case Madhouse) chose to make something that wasn't the popular trend.
>>115465169
>I mean they've been milking this cow since 2000 and there's no end in sight
Stopped reading right there
>>115465143
>Macbeth / NGE / FF7
these are all typical hero saves the day stories
Cowboy Bebop confirmed for Citizen Kane of anime
>>115465172
No it's not. It's about accepting and rejecting others, not the other way around.
>>115465172
Considering everyone dies at the end except the exact two characters who struggled to be accepted, it was actively trying to be a counter to the typical 'acceptance' plot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8sBsnYNucM
Watch this. No seriously watch all of it. It's amazing on so many levels.
Rebuilds are exactly as shit as the prequels and just like with the prequels, there are a lot of Anno apologists who follow him so blindly, they can't see all the shit he's throwing at you.
>>115465215
good, my post was over
>>115465056
>Disney recycles their movies!
>Well, so does Miyazaki.
>B-But not all of them are!
>Well, neither are all of Disney's.
Is it too complicated for you?
>>115465143
>Because they are far more popular than they should be
Aren't we special.
>>115465215
At the end? Yeah, that's typically where you're supposed to stop.
>>115465217
>MacBeth
>NGE
>hero saves the day
>>115464248
Doesn't Japan view anime as nothing more than dumb kid shit which is why you can get away with things like that?
>>115465221
deep
>no one remembers The Emperor's New Groove
>>115459931
I highly recommend watching this entire documentary. It's a comedy masterpiece.
>>115465287
It is.As expected of the master
>>115465290
I do now, Anon.
>>115465307
cute
>>115465257
Over half the Miyazaki movies don't have anything to do with the environment or a 'strong female lead' as you claimed. Even more if you count all Ghibli movies, since Isao Takada movies have absolutely nothing to do with those things.
Well over half the Disney movies follow a similar formula.
Is that too hard for you? Now let's go back to naming a small amount of counter examples and arguing over them.
>2014
>still no star wars anime
>>115465239
>all those yes men
>all that fear when George is in the room
I bet it's exactly the same with the rebuilds.
>>115465280
>Doesn't Japan view anime as nothing more than dumb kid shit
No it doesn't. You're talking about a culture who uses music from Neon Genesis Evangelion or Dragon Quest as public domain music during news broadcasts or sporting events.
Anime is very pervasive in their culture. Its just the west where animation is looked down as a lesser form of media.
>>115465356
That's a good thing.
>>115465356
Just play this. There. Now you have Star Wars in Japanese form.
>>115465351
Pssh, nah. It's like 5:30, maybe some other day.
>>115465400
But why are otaku being looked down upon?
Actually were, because looks like they are more tolerant withposeursotaku now.
>>115465143
>I know absolutely fuck all about anything: the post
>>115465351
>Well over half the Disney movies follow a similar formula.
Not really.
>>115465307
>truck crossing
And that's when all the talented muppet directors got destroyed in one car crash. So they had to go with plan B.
>>115465280
You're 100% on point there my friend.
>>115465492
>greentext without any counter points
>hot damn, I wrecked that guy!
>>115465400
That's pretty embarrassing. Grow up Japan.
>>115465191
You're right, I should have gone into detail about citing one commonly made sure bet against another is fucking stupid, but go ahead and tell yourself that Madhouse was a bunch of rebels for making sound business decisions.
>>115465456
Miyazaki Tsutomu, the whole Aum paranoia and other shit that gave ota a bad reputation.
>>115465280
There are certain shows 'normal' adults watch, as in the West. And movies may get a pass, like Ghiblishit, which IS the equivalent of Disney. It has a larger 'presence' in Japanese society.
But it's still by and large for children, and geeks.
>>115465536
There are good reasons for every single one of those being as popular as they are. Sure, idiots typically say they're good for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't excuse other idiots shitting on them as though they have no value.
>>115465456
>But why are otaku being looked down upon?
There's a difference between liking anime and being otaku. Otaku are just the hardcore, no-lifers that leech off of society. They're the people who have rooms filled with figurines, posters and body pillows. Japanese, hell any society, despises and looks down on them because they don't contribute to society, they don't have children, and frankly, they're disgusting.
>>115465239
Mike was pointing this shit out in his Plinkett review.
>>115465456
You're basically talking about a minority of people looking down an another minority of people. A subset of the older Japanese generation who look down on the younger generation for focusing too much on shounen/shoujo manga and not enough on getting into college or a solid job.
Its not unlike 'comic book nerds' being looked down upon in the west. The difference is, the manga market is by far the biggest entertainment medium in Japan. It would be like if 80-85% of the people in America read graphic novels or comic books.
But Japan gets away with that because they have manga aimed at all audiences. Not just young kids, but adult men/women (Sienen/Josei) and even older groups. Hell, the longest running show in Japan is an anime that started in 1967.
>>115465625
but they put money back into a hurting economy
>Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
>Pinocchio
>Bambi
>Cinderella
>Alice in Wonderland
>Peter Pan
>Sleeping Beauty
>One Hundred and One Dalmatians
>The Jungle Book
>Winnie the Pooh
>The Fox and the Hound
>The Black Cauldron
Is this enough?
>>115465643
Yes, but by not working and not having children, they're contributing to Japan's aging population problem - something that will bring more harm in the long run, culturally and economically.
>>115465549
>but go ahead and tell yourself that Madhouse was a bunch of rebels for making sound business decisions.
No one is doing this except you. It was just an example of something that was not a harem. And you went ballistic on it.
For the last 10 years, America has had a huge focus on dumb reality shows and 'dramas'. Does that mean there hasn't been other original concepts? Of course not. I can name plenty. But it still doesn't change what the popular trend is. And it was the same in Japan with harem/ecchi comedies during the turn of the century.
>>115465637
christ imagine an america that didn't have the hollywood blacklist, soccer moms or feminism
we basically lost 60 years of american comic books and now we'll never catch up to manga because people are shit
>>115465629
I know, that's why it's worth watching the original documentary. Gives you more of an insight.
>>115465712
There's more to the comic book industry than cape comics and dull indie shit.
>>115465767
not really
>>115465692
No one is having children because from a financial point of view it's absolutely stupid.
>>115465688
All examples that came before The Little Mermaid. Do you even notice how they kept sticking even closer to the formula since the 1990s? Most of the Pixar films being made today are using the same basic formula Aladdin/Lion King set up.
Andthe few movies that go against this formula (Pocahontas, Mulan, Emperors New Groove, The Frog and the Prince, etc) are rewarded with weaker ticket and DVD sales. The only one to be successful by bucking the formula was Lilo and Stitch. At least, successful in Disney standards. Emperors New Groove was quite a niche hit. But Disney only cares if a movie pulls Pixar numbers now.
>>115465712
It would be full of shitty porn and childish comics for teenagers like Japan?
>>115465827
When did the Jews take over Disney anon?
>>115465692
>Japan's aging population problem
Not just in Japan. Why would anyone anywhere have children when you can't even take care of yourself? Excluding shitholes where everyone has 50 children.
>>115465864
When Walt Disney died.
>>115465712
The problem is, even in the old days (1930s-1940s), there was only a handful of serious comic book publishers. And even then, most people only recognize DC and Marvel.
Even if Comic BOoks hadn't been hit by a string of bad press and loss of populairty in the 1960s-1980s, there wouldn't have been the massive vairety you see for Manga in Japan. They basically set up the standard of comic books = caped crusader.
And that has also been a major reason comics never went beyond a niche fascination. Because no matter how much you advertise a product, if it only targets the same group of people over and over (shut ins who like super heroes or goth vampire stories), then that's the only market you're gonna get.
>>115465827
Not Disney, but The Road to El Dorado is considered a flop, which is a goddamn crime.
>implying Tangled and Wreck-It Ralph followed the "formula"
>>115465950
So are all of Don Bluth's movies. Though to be fair, half of his movies were pretty terrible. And Titan AE, which should have been the dream correlation between Japan and America, was just such a bad concept that it killed his career.
Don Bluth is the perfect example of someone with good ideas, but failed execution. And he never allowed others to change his concepts.
>>115465950
I only remember the sexy brown chick.
>>115465949
Superheroes are more marketable, and there are whole goddamn publishing houses dedicated to bucking the trend.
>>115466056
What about the songs? They were awesome.
>>115465989
No they didnt. But they were also not the best movies.
Wreck it Ralph was basicaly 'pandering to video game nerds: the movie'. With every crappy SNL actor they could shoe horn into it. Which is another major problem with western animation. They focus more on drawing people in with the 'Hollywood Voice Actors' than the actual plot and content of the movie.
They could make a movie that is total shit and people would still go see it just because a famous Hollywood actors name is on it. Oh wait, Dreamworks does it all the time! Shit like Ice Age and Madagascar should be destroyed.
>>115466083
>and there are whole goddamn publishing houses dedicated to bucking the trend.
Yes, but they're not gaining the majority of the marketplace because
>most people only recognize DC and Marvel.
>>115465921
Roy, you bastard
>>115466093
DW has been on a roll for the last few years, whereas Pixar has been on a downward slope. I'm pretty sure the Planes DVD has an ad for Planes 2 on it.
>>115465950
>You will never get another Road to El Dorado, Emporors New Groove, Lilo and Stitch or Prince of Egypt
Hell, I'd just settle for a Disney movie on par with Beauty and the Beast.
>>115465692
Why the fuck would anyone want to have children when everyone's in a global recession? That's financial suicide. There are people that can't even find the money to take care of themselves, let alone kids.
>>115466152
It wasn't Roy. It was Michael Eisner and the shareholders who killed Disney. And not just the movies, but everything. Disneyland, merchandise, killing 2D animation, etc.
Its all about the money. And sadly, Disney is making more money than ever now.
>>115466124
They're not gaining majority because they're fighting two megapublishers with a slew of marketable characters and fifty years on them, at least.
>>115466194
Most people don't factor in having kids with the financial impact. And they just have kids whenever it happens.
The very small minority of people smart enough to have kids when they are financially sound actually do it that way. But most people don't think about their actions.
>>115465625
You sound Japanese. Or like someone who belongs to an asian ethnicity in genral.
And they contribute by keeping the anime industry alive during rough as fuck times (as cancerous as they may be with their pandering shit,) because the normalfags sure as hell aren't doing anything to support the situation.
And honestly, why would you even want mentally fucked up people to have children? It's a recipe for disaster, and it's even worse when irresponsible people do end up having kids.
>>115463729
>Rei fanboy detected
>>115466194
You'd be surprised. Many studies have proven that people have more kids when times are tough. And it makes very basic sense. When people are limited and don't have financial outlets to indulge their senses, they turn to sex. Something that is basically free and fun (except for people on 4chan of course).
So why exactly did he change Asuka's name in the Rebuilds?
