I just can't get into this show...I think it's pretty crappy so far. Forty-something episodes in and I just don't like it...
Your thoughts?
>>142291805
This is all it's good for
>>142291805
My thoughts?
We didn't know what we had when we got GT. We just didn't know.
GT isn't great, but Super goes well out of it's way to be terrible. GT feels more like a misguided attempt at bringing fresheness into DBZ, and moving things along.
Super wants to play it safe and have over-the-top-horseshit at the same time. Who cares if Goten is supposed to be older, draw him the same, or it won't be like DBZ! Who cares if
I think it's telling that GT could go through every character in the series and manage to update their designs, even if they aren't all great, and Super couldn't give a fuck about that sort of shit, Goku Vegeta Battle Buddy Power Hour!
I'd hate to say it, but I can think of several harem shows I'd rather watch than DB Super
It seems to be geared towards little kids now, unlike DBZ and the tail end of DB which was more geared to the teen/all age demographic. Constant humor, no emotional stakes because everything is played for laughs, no attempt at any power level consistency, and poor animation.
>>142291943
>Oh boy now is my chance to stop people from shitting on GT
Stop trying Pablo they are both shit
>B-But this piece of shit is slightly less smelly than this other piece of shit
>>142292469
>doesn't claim GT is good
>only claims Super is shit
>that conclusion
>>142291805
>ellipses
lurk for 2 years before posting
>>142291943
>>142291805
Whoa what, This is my first time reading people's responses to the show. I never watched GT, just went from the Z of childhood to super. Do you guys actually hate it? I think Beerus and Whis are great, I'm really enjoying all the light hearted comedy stuff, also Monaka.
The only complaints I've had so far is how obsessed with training Goku is even in his downtime, Also the bit with the earth exploding only to come back next episode. That would have been a real plot point if there was a whole arc about it.
Other than that I'm really liking it so far.
>>142292683
>Do you guys actually hate it?
>>142292755
I'm sorry, you girls* I know /a/ is full of women too.
>>142292608
Why other reason do you have to bring animated fan fiction (GT) to the conversation?
The original show and the manga are fair computations and it serve to show how much the show as deteriorate.
GT is irrelevant unless you are a desperate GTfag.
>>142293149
>bring animated fan fiction (GT) to the conversation
>implying >>142291943 is me
>>142292683
Only edgyfags and dubabies actually hate it. I think it is disappointing but it as a few nice things.
Like you already mentioned Beerus and Wiss dynamic is fun to watch. There is also the fact that Goku is not the most powerful character anymore. Piccolo found a family. Vegeta finally dropped his edgelord antics, he is still an arrogant warrior but that is part of his "charm" I guess.
I also liked how the tournament had the calm gods of creation and the chaotic gods of destruction on the other.
The only thing that is really really bad is the animation.
>>142293635
>Only edgyfags and dubabies actually hate it
>The only thing that is really really bad is the animation
>>142293225
>>>/co/
>>142293706
Such an eloquent respond. Sasuga /co/
>>142293706
You sure prove me wrong mister Luthor
>>142291805
>Your thoughts?
You have reasonably good taste. DBS is absolute garbage. Congrats, anon.
>>142292469
Of course they're both shit, but some shits are stinkier than others.
>>142293981
The art, character design, writing and music is also balls.
I love how Superfriends always go for that bullshit ad hominem shit every time they try to defend super. It's like they actually believe people don't like it because it's less serious than DBZ and only because of that.
>>142293635
I love that Vegeta gets more light hearted moments, some people must hate that, but I think that really gives him personality. Also lol that moment when Bulma's taking a shower and he's still in the house wearing his armor.
I like that he's still one of the most powerful characters, that he managed to achieve SSG through his own power, I love seeing him succeed.
Also the bits with Picollo are great too, Little sad he isn't a contender for fighting anymore, but he still gets lots of screen time.
>>142294195
Guess I'm part of the other camp then, I grew up with Z and I'm really enjoying super. I haven't noticed the music much besides one song I really liked. I can't remember much of the music from Z anymore.
What don't you like about the writing? Do you dislike Beerus?
Dragon Ball Super, a.k.a. "how NOT to tell a new story set in-between two portions of an existing one."
Super has been screwing up things from the original manga left and right. Several things from the epilogue with Oob have been blatantly contradicted now, and they can't even keep the characters' ages in line. How much freaking effort would it really take to have an intern flip open one of many available guidebooks and check a timeline to see how old each character should be?
In terms of larger storytelling, the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F adaptation arcs were pretty badly handled (a LOT of time ends up wasted when you stretch an hour-long film into 10+ episodes), and I found the Universe 6 Tournament arc simultaneously over-the-top AND boring at the same time, if that makes sense. Plus of course, being a primarily Toei-born product the entire thing is chock full of Goku (and Vegeta) wank.
GT had its fair share of problems too, but at least it had the courtesy to set itself and its issues several years AFTER the original story, instead of shoving itself between two parts of it and tainting things on both sides.
It's kind of a shame because I liked the two new movies a whole lot, and was curious to see where they'd take things. But Super has just ruined that entire prospect.
>>142295317
I personally liked BoG but disliked some of its aspects. For one, I felt Beerus was shoved in too hard. I like the guy but did they have to say "Oh hey guys, Frieza didn't blow up Vegeta because of the Super Saiyan legend, it's because of Beerus" and crap like that? Come on, that's something I expect from a fanfic. I liked the Goku vs Beerus fight though.
RoF? Oh shit, I hate that one. From the recolors, the puke worthy CGI, the lack of tension because we're constantly reminded of how Frieza has no chance of victory, etc. I just don't like it.
>>142295540
The horrible character designs and plot holes gave away the atrociousness of DBS.
i really like super, but i have to admit that it is mostly because GT made everything feel so incommplete
in gt we never got another goku vs vegeta, grown up uub didn't do anything and the enemies felt super edgy,
>baby is an emo parasyte
>super 17 has weird hair,
>and then we had the dark dragons
actually it was kinda weid beacuse none of the bad guys had puns in their names
dragon ball and dbz were never that edgy not even in the android saga
the enemies on super make a lot more sense and fit more with dragon ball
>bill and champa are lazy gods of destruction
>frost was a freezie pop that pretended to be a good guy
>winnie pooh
>chrono trigger lava robot
>vegeta's new apprentice
>and even hit turned out to be a nice guy when he let monaka win, and he is also great because he learned a lot from goku and now he is going to become even stronger
also we get nice comfy moments like pic related
i feel like gt could have been better but it was rushed and then it was made extra edgy for americans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKsLsPung0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJcuDgVYjgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlgfN_vW86g
dragon ball is way better when it is light hearted most of the time and only has a few serious moments
I like Super for bringing new regulars into the Dragonball cast.
Said new regulars (Beerus, Whis, Jaco (he did exist in another series, but is still regularly used in DBS), Monaka) have brought plenty of good laughs which is something that Dragonball when it went into the Z storyline was missing quite alot of.
I also like the idea of alternate universes and super dragon balls as opposed to something like GT's Black Star Dragon Balls and Shadow Dragons.
>>142291805
What could be salvaged from Super, The character interactions, the new fights, the Universe 6 arc and expanded lore are decent enough, but they have to be filtered through Toei's absolute refusal to give a shit about what kind of end product they produce. The Super Manga is actually enjoyable, and while it's not "Dragonball at its prime" good, it's an enjoyable read and makes me like these characters. The anime is poorly animated, and weirdly stretched out and slow, considering it's not even padding out to catch up to a manga! Beyond that I like the lax attitude super's been taking, at least. But I wouldn't mind seeing something more substantial happen.
>>142296476
This.
Scenes like Goku selling getting hit by Mr. Satan hard and Piccolo reluctantly giving responsability of Pan to Goku and Chichi far outweigh Vegeta's moustache scene in GT.
>>142296586
this i also liked how they added jaco and now with the alternate universes i hope we see more cameos of character from other mangas made by tori
i would like to see the guys from sandland or kajika at some point, maybe as background characters or during a filler episode
>>142295540
I actually enjoyed RoF simply because it felt like the Rematch Goku wanted since he last fought Freeza. The problem with it is making it canon. RoF is such a "movie idea". There's no need to make it an actual event that is actually canon. I saw it as more of a fun film to have some of the lesser used characters fight a bit, even though it is just against mooks, Give Vegeta the chance to completely dominate Freeza (even if his kill gets stolen), Goku to finally get his rematch he's so craved, And just have a fun little nod to the "Goku and Vegeta working together would be amazing, but saiyan pride gets in the way".
RoF as a movie is enjoyable as just a fun little thing. But as an actual arc in a show? It feels really badly thrown together, because it was not meant to be like that..
>>142296476
>This
I'm betting people will begin to like Super a lot more when and if it ever gets dubbed. We learned from our mistakes.
Ex. Kai
>>142296476
>bill
>>142296840
I thought that it was crap. It ruined my perception of Frieza, that he was a competent threat who simply encountered enemies out of his league after Namek. Son Goku was dominating the entire time despite Gold Frieza being stronger. My perception of Frieza after was "Even if you're weaker than him, he'll find some way to fuck up & he'll need help to win". I couldn't take him the slightest bit seriously due to how even Goku treats casually but also the presence of Vegeta. Beerus & Whis. I felt that the remainder of the cast being reduced to killing cannon fodder was just bad. No one cheered Krillen when he took out multiple Saibamen, I didn't cheer here.
so when super is over in like 2030
ami i the only one that would like to see an anime based on all the crazy non canon stuff that happens in dragon ball heroes with hero and femhero as the main characters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdiqL4lKHio
>>142293635
>Vegeta finally dropped his edgelord antics
I miss his prince of all saiyans and saiyan pride stuff, he was funny.
>>142297531
>nobody cheered Krillin when he took out multiple Saibamen
I mean, I did.
I guess we have two different interpretations of Freeza. My perception was " Freeza's the rich aristocrat, to Goku's poor dumb hick. Freeza didn't have to work for anything he had and has always been strong. Goku started off as a runt and only got so strong through meeting the right people and training to the point that his body physically gave out at times. On the surface they both seem to enjoy fighting and want to drag out a match between their "rival" for as long as they can. The difference is, when Goku's back is against the wall he's having the time of his life. When Freeza's back is against the wall he wants to rage quit and blow up the planet, because he's a spoiled brat who's not used to losing. Which is basically what I got.
I mean from the point Goku got Super Saiyan onward, Freeza had already lost that fight.
>>142292469
I really like how Superfriend's defense is always the same
SHUT UP, GT IS FANFICTION TIER
YOU JUST WANT PEOPLE TO STOP SHITTING ON GT
GT SUCKS, SUPER IS FUN, COMFY AND SLICE OF LIFE
They're both not any good. They're garbage. If Super was as bad as GT, I'd still call it garbage. But that's just the thing, Super is worse than GT, and that's the fucking problem. It should at least be a little better, but it isn't.
GT is a bunch of botched meals thrown away in a garbage can with other pieces of garbage. It smells bad, but I at least can understand how the meals ended up in there.
Super is a bunch of old garbage tossed in with some shit when the chefs should have learned from their mistake with GT.
And patrons like yourself line up to the diner and ask for more shit.
I can't think of ONE thing that GT gets wrong that Super doesn't do in spades, outside of BUT VEGETA GETS TO FIGHT. And well, that's my fucking problem, it's not better than GT. But since Toriyama is in on it, and it's not GT, it's better than GT...because it is!
The big order of the day is that people who don't like Super are Mexicans or Toonamifags that want EDGE and serious fighting, and Super is fun and comfy, and it doesn't have to make sense, you're just being butthurt
Well, too fucking bad that the Goku Black arc is said to be the darkest that the frnachise has ever gotten!
Also, I'd like to note that literally every arc of DB Super manages to either rehash or reuse a character design. Yeah, the enemy of the newest arc is going to be a Goku recolor.
I mean, I want you to think about something. The filler arc takes a Goten and Trunks adventure and develoves it into a GOKU VS VEGETA BATTLE BUDDY POWER BATTLE hour event. It even has Gotenks appear to show up just to job to Googeta to show how hardcore he is.
Wasn't everyone's complaint about GT that it was "Goku Time?" Wasn't the complaint of GT that everyone else was useIess this not the same goddamn thing?
>>142291805
You should have listened to us; don't watch the movie retread episodes, they're entirely phoned in
Only start watching around the universe tournament episodes, since that's when it actually starts getting into original content, and starts to get a bit good. It has some decent moments there with Vegeta and Cabbage, or Goku and Hit.
Future episodes have even more promise as this show is slowly coming into its own. However the retread episodes were entirely half-assed, and they knew it. Since it had already been animated before by someone else, they decided to half-ass it.
Original content episodes, those are the ones where they at least put in a bit of effort at times. The plot is solid, animation is strange, go with the manga if you can't do anything else.
>>142291805
well, I like it better than Battle of Gods + Revival of F
>>142296245
Tell me about the plot holes you're referring to, is this something related to the manga? Because I only watched Z.
>>142296586
Oh shit, I completely forgot to mention Jaco. I love his antics with Bulma and that he's basically a sentai ranger of sorts. Also that even if he may not be on par power wise as other characters, his eyesight is advanced enough that he's able to see just about everything, which tips you off right away during the hit fight that he's not just fast.
>>142297858
Good for you. I didn't. To me, them fighting Frieza's army & then Frieza himself killing said army told me that such a thing was all the remainder of the cast would ever amount to. They do the equivalent of sweeping trash Goku & Vegeta are high up to stoop down to. Even Piccolo & Gohan become that.
Even then, I thought Frieza's bizarrely effective 4 months of training would change few things. He's been defeated twice now & haven't learned a thing. Even Cell & Buu do so.
We should give Frieza some credit. He just survived a Spirit Bomb & was greatly injured, though Goku was too.
>>142297148
From what I've heard its getting dubbed, at least there was an interview with Goku and Vegeta's voice actors saying something like, "On one hand, more screaming for hours, on the other, dont have to worry about work for another 10 years"
>>142297999
Hey friend, you're allowed to not enjoy something, but there's no use trying to convert others into hating something along with you. Everyone experiences things differently, It's not a battle of who's right or wrong. Just chill out and enjoy watching what you do like.
>>142299412
I wrote out my opinion on the series.
It's not like it's going to sell any LESS because I don't like it. Even though people, Toriyama himself are complaining about the animation, people still line up for more.
All of the voice actors seem to be having fun going on for one more ride, and I can't hate them for it. I wasn't even upset with them bringing back Joji Yanami, even though he's like 84 years old and his voice is going. Maybe they SHOULD have replaced him from the start, but if everyone else is back on board, why not him?
I was asked for my opinion, and I gave it. I'm not happy with Super at all. But what's making me angry is despite all of Super's flaws, Superfriends will hear nothing of it, and if we're not making excuses for Super, we're talking about why people who don't like it are pieces of shit.
Whoops, I wanted a character I enjoyed to do something other than job. I'm a piece of shit
Whoops, I wanted the story to attempt to be consistent. What a loathesome fuck I am
Getting tired of character design rehashes? Go back to GT, Mexifag!
I'm tired of Vegeta getting his dick sucked all the time, because he honestly doesn't deserve it. The worst part is that the series always goes out of it's way to make him second to Goku anyway, so every character gets their agency taken away, so Vegeta can have it, and end up being lesser than Goku anyway. What an upset!
Also, I think it's attempts at humor are really bad.It's not like DBZ has ever been above toliet humor, but LOL GOOD FOOD and GOKU'S AN IDIOT can only be so funny for so long.
But if I don't think so, I'm a stupid Cellfag.
>>142301046
Still better than GT though.
the early episodes of GT are good (up to about general dildo). the problem is when it started becoming like late DBZ rather than Dragon Ball. GT does "Dragon Ball" a lot better than Super.
>>142293635
>Chaotic gods of destruction and the calm gods of creation
I really liked the contrast
>>142296476
Piccolo is fine in Super because even of he is not a fighter anymore he still inspires respect but in a different way.
>>142301046
If only those mean people could stop hurting your feelings and just agreed with you.
>Whoops
Is that you reddit-kun?
>>142298825
Not that guy but the very obvious one is when a puny laser gun damaged Goku when he was in ssb form.
>>142301521
That was in the movie though. Super "fixed" that by making him return to base form before feting shot.
Yea I know is still retarded but Goku kinda did that before Namek exploded too so meh.
Could it be that Dragonball in general is a relic of a previous era?
I don't want to be too down on it, as it was a gateway series for me as a kid, and from the sound of how authors like Oda and Kishimoto talk about Toriyama, a real genre-definer for shonen battle manga in general. That said, the first to do something is often rough and unpolished.
>large cast of characters but only a few (basically the sayians) that have any relevance in later arcs
>arcs typically follow the format of: villain arises, Goku is unavailable for some reason, secondary characters hold out until his arrival, Goku wins
>had a very binary concept of power: A is stronger than B, so B cannot even put a scratch on A, B is outclassed that much.
Nowadays it's common to see series where a large cast of characters reliably gets fights in each arc (Bleach, OP), plots are more varied to include rescue arcs (Bleach, OP) and training (Naruto, Bleach). And each of the big three have had tag-team fights with villains to mix things up. I'm not saying the three I'm pulling from don't have their own flaws, Lord knows they do, but they've advanced the genre.
Seeing Super now seems like taking a step back, or at least looking back to a simpler time.
>>142301521
Didn't that rock hurt him in SS1 form?
>>142302379
That was a Toei filler, it doesn't count.
>>142291805
My thoughts?
Better than GT, obviously worse than Z. I felt this anime didn't even start till after the Frieza Saga, but fuck it, I guess every story needs some sort of intro(?).
>>142301516
I don't expect anyone to AGREE with me. For fuck's sake, I just went into how disliking it isn't going to effect its popularity, or how the voice actors are enjoying it, even if I'm not
My point is that saying anything bad about Super results in comments like yours and >>142301148
FUCK YOU, BETTER DAN GT, IT'S BETTER DAN GT BECAUSE IT'S BETTER DAN GT.
Can't say anything about Super without the Superfriend Defense Force showing up en masse to tell everyone else to fuck off.
>>142302366
Funny enough, DB tried to do some of that stuff you're talking about.
Piccolo and Goku straight up tag-team fight Raditz. No taking turns or waiting. Just straight up fighting in tandem. Even the Saiyan fight had a lot of people kicking the Nappa back and forth as teamates. Early Dragonball was a lot more free with "a is stronger than b", having Goku struggle but overcome a challenge, rather than curbstomp it due to a powerup (Korin's tower was right around when that started happening...poor tao pai pai). And keeping the characters mostly at the same pace. Krillin even gave Goku a run for his money even though he was very clearly outmatched.
Even the android saga focused less on fighting androids and more of figuring out the mystery of why everything's changed and how to defeat Cell and the androids WITHOUT having to fight them (only to end up having to fight them anyway).
And the whole, Goku shows up to save the day that Toriyama loved got subverted quite a few times.
Goku saves them from Nappa but gets DESTROYED by Vegeta. Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe have to finish him off. Goku does nothing for most of the android saga and when he finally confronts Cell he's just like "Nah, I'm not strong enough" and bails.Goku actually only really beat freeza and some mooks and debatabley Buu (Debatable because the only reason he could beat Buu is by using the spirit bomb, which was mostly everyone ELSE's strength, not his own.)
I feel like Super's just fallen into Toriyama's "comfort Zone" which is good and bad. I like seeing the characters again, I like them being more lax and even more gag based, but it's not really adding anything substantial (other than Beerus and Whis)
>>142302455
Isn't the movie basically just...film based toei filler?
>>142292683
Only complaint is the art and action.... The action is all the way turnt down imo. They need new people to handle fights and go all out.
I actually think we need to see more training from all characters.
>>142302781
Sort of. To continue DBS the way it is now it was needed though.
>>142302752
Like I said, it was a rougher pioneer. You're right that it toys around with some of the things that have become common, but I can't help feeling a lot of it fell away as the series went on.
And as much flack as the Android Saga gets, I really liked the stretch where Piccolo was the strongest of the heroes, Tien successfully stalled for time on a stronger opponent, and Krillin had a plot device to make him relevant to the story.
I guess another problem/difference is the lack of character development for a lot of the cast. To me, only Vegeta and Piccolo have really defined arcs, and Goku's naivety with Freeza in Resurrection F was infuriating.
>>142293635
Its not edgyfags, its people who want to see kickass heavy impact battles and not some pbs kids program with nothing but slice of life. Sol is fine, but speaks volumes if sol is your best content in a fucking fighting series.
Everyone is staying tuned to see if they will push the envelope and destroy every action show out. And every week we get bullshit. At least we got to see gotenks.
what does the Z in DBZ stand for
>>142303098
Zenkai Boost
>>142302965
I strongly disagree, but I say this as someone who thinks isn't in this for the "kickass heavy impact battles." I don't want to watch 20 minutes of punching, shouting, and DEEBEEZEE. I have old DBZ for that. I watch the show for the characters, not the battles. And Super treats its characters much better than something like GT.
I really, unironically, like DBS a lot.
The animation is shit most of the time, but it's generally light hearted and some of the new characters are fucking based like Beerus and Jaco.
It's a shame Gohan is a fucking c uckboi nowadays. At least we're gettingfuture trunksagain.
>>142303182
They thought the series would be ending soon.
>>142303384
Are you ready for the semen demon to show up?
>>142303458
Mira can fuck off doe
>>142302366
I agree the formula is basically the same as it always was, at the same time, watching the fights play out in the universe 6 tournament was still enjoyable. Just wish Vegeta had kicked more ass.
>>142303616
u mad bardock?
  ▲
▲Â ▲
>>142303458
>>142303674
Everything wrong that's happened to Bardock in recent years is Mira and Towa's fault. They threw him into the past and made that dumb Episode of Bardock happen, they then kidnapped him and brainwashed him into being an edgy fucker in a mask. I bet even Minus will turn out to be their doing all along.
Towa's enough of an obsessive fangirl for it to be true. Just look at her husbando, Mira, aka "Super Demon Cell that can go Super Saiyan."
>>142302871
My favorite fight was actually when Beerus was posing as Monaka, the animation was awesome even if briefly.
>>142302965
Speaking of Gotenks, I love how he's over the top immature since he's the sum of both Trunks and Goten, though I wonder if he'll ever have a serious fight.
>>142303384
That clip with him asking Picollo to train him again implies he might come back to relevancy again. I actually like that Gohan manages to branch away from the other sayains in terms of personality. He's always been sticking his neck out for others, rather than fighting for the sake of challenge.
>>142304212
Goten and Trunks are teenagers who are basically sorting of demigods when fused together.
Their raging teenage hormones are going to drive them mental. They'll probably fuck every female they can in the planet.
>>142304282
tfwthat bulma scene in original dragonball got me into /ss/ as a child.
>>142302366
the problem is that the dragon ball storyline featuring these characters is simply OVER. goku has already gone through all the training he was meant to go and fought against all the gods and whatnot. super buu killed every person on earth and kid buu blew up the earth instantly, teleporting to afterlife and threatening life and afterlife -- basically everything. that was the endgame for those characters
the powerscale is incredibly inconsistent now. the "god" energy doesn't make sense, goku almost dying to a laser beam doesn't make sense, beerus and whis are also characters that were never meant to exist... there are far too many problems. even the power levels, with goku going kaiokenx10 super saiyan blue and still not instantly defeating hit, who was fighting against him in base form. or the fact that him and vegeta are meant to be even when goku just had a 10x power increase. and so on
if they made a new dragon ball story with entirely new characters, it could have worked out well. it could even focus on different themes, whether it was to be very dramatic or just more focused on comedy. they could still have saiyans/super saiyans/nameks, dragon balls and whatnot. but they needed a new framework to work with
this show will never be anything besides mediocre. having characters just yelling at each other while claiming to be stronger doesn't make a good show. and no, dbz was not just that
>>142302366
With the now 2 sets of Dragonball, and now a time reverse its impossible to build tension. Who really cares that Freiza destroyed Earth in RoF? Its played off as this tragic loss, but they could have just gone to Namek and wished it all back.
None of the characters have depth, and many of them have been stripped of what little they had. Goku is a good example of this, he's almost unbearable to watch. Arcs are far shorter than Z which I feel really hurts the buildup any attempt at buildup.
Combine that with idiotic plots(like this current Vegeta goop, all of RoF), an ugly artstyle, generally poor choreography/animation and godawful music and you have a disaster.
>>142291805
Not surprised it's garbage. It's pretty much killing the series.
>>142304369
>goku has already gone through all the training he was meant to go and fought against all the gods and whatnot.
And here he's realizing that he will hit limits eventually, he at one point cannot get any stronger, and his attempts at gaining strength quickly could result in him crippling himself horribly.
>the powerscale is incredibly inconsistent now. the "god" energy doesn't make sense, goku almost dying to a laser beam doesn't make sense, beerus and whis are also characters that were never meant to exist... there are far too many problems. even the power levels, with goku going kaiokenx10 super saiyan blue and still not instantly defeating hit, who was fighting against him in base form. or the fact that him and vegeta are meant to be even when goku just had a 10x power increase. and so on
This Power Level nonsense is actually more internally consistent than Z's was. In Super Goku got shot in the back in base with his guard visibly down. Your next statement is simply ludicrous, it's like claiming that Dr. Gero or Frieza were never meant to exist. Hit stated he was holding back so he wouldn't kill Goku and get disqualified. He also was hoping to find a challenge out of the U7 fighters. This is nitpicking that can be resolved by watching the show, as hard as it might be.
>if they made a new dragon ball story with entirely new characters, it could have worked out well. it could even focus on different themes, whether it was to be very dramatic or just more focused on comedy. they could still have saiyans/super saiyans/nameks, dragon balls and whatnot. but they needed a new framework to work with
This is more arguing over what you want as compared to what it is. Perhaps 50 episodes down the line it will become a series focused on passing the torch to Uub and Pan. It's simply not that right now, it's set in the middle of things, before the end of the series. Maybe it will retcon the ending, maybe it will lead into Online's story.
>>142305260
>This Power Level nonsense is actually more internally consistent than Z's was
How so?
>>142291805
I enjoy it, not the first movie recaps mind you but I do enjoy the fact that there are being stronger than goku now, much stronger too. It adds to the fear that there is so much that could kill goku but that's what is exciting.
>>142305088
>With the now 2 sets of Dragonball, and now a time reverse its impossible to build tension. Who really cares that Freiza destroyed Earth in RoF? Its played off as this tragic loss, but they could have just gone to Namek and wished it all back.
It's portrayed as tragic because Goku and Vegeta didn't take the fight seriously, like Beerus was shouting at them to. It's their fault, and none of them would be around still if Whis didn't make the barrier. Their fight-happy attitudes/desire to humiliate Frieza shows just how badly they can fuck up the situation. And they won't have the luxury of Whis around all the time. If they did use the Namekian Dragon Balls, Frieza would still be alive and potentially training again. They might not get so lucky next time.
>None of the characters have depth, and many of them have been stripped of what little they had. Goku is a good example of this, he's almost unbearable to watch. Arcs are far shorter than Z which I feel really hurts the buildup any attempt at buildup.
This is quite laughable to claim after the Pan episode. Goku has shown even greater depth than most of his time in Z with just that small conversation with piccolo.
Arcs have so far been a retelling of two movies, and the series equivalent to the Baba Tournament. With Future Trunks on the horizon. Right now there's a 3 episode filler arc that's honestly at least less awful than the Garlic Jr. filler arc, and leagues better than shit like Super 17.
Super is great.
Its not Z and its not Dragon Ball classic either. Its something completely different and great in its own right. .
Its less about the fights and more about the culmination of character arcs that have been in the making for decades. Ultimately, Super is the story of Goku's midlife crisis, as age, responsibility, and an ever creeping power limit that they've been hinting at for the past few arcs, are pushing him away from his passion which he's not ready to let go of yet. In the episode a few weeks ago, Goku was told that his reckless urge to push beyond his limits is catching up to him and if he keeps it up he might lose his ability to use Ki permanently.
That would be worse than death for him (he's experienced death a few times, and it wasn't really that bad), but that's the only life he's ever known, but everyone else seems to act like that's the kind of slow, peaceful life: spending time with his kids and grandkids, keeping a nice easy job, etc is the sort that he should be living. The kind of life that he's earned and is entitled to, but he's never once wanted that. All he's ever cared about, much moreso than protecting anyone or the planet, is to fight stronger opponents and better himself.
That's the struggle in Super: an internal one. This is the best written that Dragon Ball has ever been. If you're the kind of person that just mindlessly watches it for cool action sequences then sure, its probably shit, but if you've been following it from the start and care at all about these characters than this is actually really good stuff.
>>142305386
Trunks vs. Future Trunks. One needed constant training and a heartbreaking moment of grief in order to transform. The other did it just because. Vegeta lampshaded it but it doesn't make that any less of an overall asspull.
DBZ itself, not the manga, is even more inconsistent. According to DBZ, Yamcha can fight evenly with Super Perfect Cell by the Buu arc. The same Yamcha who hasn't bothered training in years. While Gohan is actually weaker than he was during the fight with Cell, having slacked off.
>>142304369
I would like to point out that they tried moving on to a new character and it didn't work.
>>142305507
I find your point interesting but I don't agree, but still very good point.
The thing is Super is trying to move away from the concept of power levels make you a god already. What super is doing is trying to rectify what Z created which was powerlevels versus powerlevels. Super is trying to bring back techniques that dispite the power it is up against, they are still effective against God like beings.
For example Hit fighting Vegeta, Hit's fist technique he was using is an actual technique, it's the dragon fang. Designed for very close combat, it nerve points that with out using any muscle at all can cause real damage and it really fucking hurts.
>>142305507
>making mountain out of a molehill
>polish a turd, it's still a turd
>trying so hard to embellish upon something so simple
You get the point.
>>142305674
no he wouldn't, even piccilo was side lined in buu saga and despite it all he could never reach perfect cell level, Deborah was proof of that.
>people really though he would be black
>>142305693
hits nerve points*
fucking phone I can't type with touch screen.
>>142305784
oh shit!
Evil goku can't wait.
>>142305726
It's clearly what they've been going for since episode one of Super when Goku was complaining about ChiChi forcing him to work because "you're strong enough already, just get a normal job".
I think they've done a very good job of it.
>>142305784
TRUNKS
MAI
CONFIRMED
OTP
>>142305784
The fuck? Adult Mai?
>>142305784
>The Trunks Mai OTP still lives
>>142305863
In a completely different timeline,nonetheless.
That means its fate.
>>142305784
>pontara earing
So did some one evil fuse with goku?
Looks like they are trying to recreate that DBZ AF what with that horned goku.
>>142305507
This. Fucking this. THIS is why I'm watching Super. Because it knows what it is. Not about the battles, which there have been a couple that were pretty cool. Not about the comedy, though it's honestly been better than some of Z's best. It's the characters, and how they're all starting to realize they can't keep doing the same "fight and train until you're the strongest" thing forever. And many are finding ways to move on. Krillin became a cop. Gohan's got a family and is looking for a promising job (and will eventually revolutionize the world with his book on Ki). Piccolo has become best Big Green Grandpa. Goku doesn't want to "grow up" but is starting to realize that, well fuck, he's a grandpa now. He can't keep doing the "train all you want and fight strong guys" thing forever. He'll need to pass the torch, in a sense. Vegeta seems to already be thinking about that given his reaction to Cabba.
And in a few years, Goku will do the same.
>>142305884
>Toyble is the one doing the manga
we should have seen this coming
>>142305784
Fake. Here's da real Black Goku.
>>142305784
>tfw Goku is not Black
-9000/10 would drop
>>142305944
Toriyama is writing but keeps insisting Toyble to add his ideas in to the manga
>fan boy gets to live the dream
>>142305973
I wonder if you are that same guy who wants Xenoverse to be canon.
>>142306063
>Videogames
>Canon
what
>>142305507
>>142305916
I just rewatched the current ED and the lyrics explicitly confirm this theory.
>>142305784
Bardockfags on suicide watch
>>142306082
trust me there are retards that think that Xenoverse is canon.
>>142296476
>>hit turned out to be a nice guy when he let monaka win
Actually believing that monaka is weak
>>142306173
Man, I would really like to see an episode about what Yamcha, Tien, Chaozu, Oolong and Pu'ar does all day aside from dicking around and throwing barbeques.
>>142306589
Tien and Chiaotzu are farmers. Yamcha probably reminisces endlessly about when he was relevant.
The manga that's supposed to just be a promotional thing is better than the actual show. Toei fucked up.
>>142305784
>Black Goku was actually evil Vegetto all along
Bravo Toeiyama
>>142306844
I think this Toyble's doing
>>142306986
Bravo Toybleyama.
>>142305784
is this the same Trunks from the future? Or is it a new Time line trunks because of Mai being there
>>142307002
there you go
>>142306675
Toriyama's more directly involved, and Toyble's good at mimicking Dragon Ball art, with his own twists.
>>142307022
Same Trunks as the Cell saga, he wants that Mai puss regardless of timeline.
>>142307270
well he has good taste, I'll give him that
This arc is going to suck, never mind that shitty future trunks is coming back but DB is better when it's light hearted and funny.
We saw how shitty the Android/Cell saga was, there's no comedy or funny stuff at all.
>>142307300
>those DB era mai doujins
wew lads
>yfw launch hasn't been relevant since saiyan saga and is probably at grandma age now if she isn't dead
>>142307351
Forever pining away for that faggot tien.
>>142307306
said no one ever
>>142307351
What even happened to Lunch? She just disappeared.
>>142307544
She found out Tien died against Vegeta and Nappa, drank her sorrows out in a bar, and then, I shit you not, Toriyama forgot she existed. That's why Tien and others never mention or acknowledge she existed again, and he just didn't feel like bringing her back I guess so it never became apparent.
>>142307544
Toriyama forgot she existed.
>>142305507
this anon gets it
>>142305784
oh nice, now i can ship this
but damn that is definitely not time breaker bardock, he doesn't even seem to have the right hair, so he is a new evil sayajin, is that a potara earing?
what if he is not and evil goku and instead he is an evil vegito?
>>142307544
tori forgot
>>142307619
>evil vegito
I'd be okay with this.
>>142305784
Oh boy i can't wait for all the plot holes
>>142305784
>this magazine art looks better than anything shown in Super so far.
>>142305784
>Trunks banging someone old enough to be his grandma
Ew.
>>142297732
It was too nationalistic and the powers at be (jews) don't want us to copy him.
