hey /3/, does anybody here go or went to Gnomon school of visual effects?
how much does this school even cost?
I remember seeing that the tuition was 25.000$ (tuition usually just mean 1 year)
now their website says its $9,511 per term (8 terms in 2 years)
so its $38,000 per year.
did they jack the price or what? if you are a student, how much did you pay for the whole 2 year or the 3 year program.
>willingly going to probably the best school in the world that guarantees a high paying job after graduation
If you want a high paying job you should study engineering or some other STEM at an ivy league college. You wont find a high paying job in the art world if graduating from gnomon, Thats for sure.
You're going to have a rude awakening
the average salary for professional 3D artist in California is 55,000$ (that's a decent living for my standards)
gnomon students end up getting jobs at high end studios and make 65,000+ per year
its not stem or engineering but dont forget step and engineering schools cost 3x more than gnomon...
Thats barely middle class, and having lived in Cali for years its expensive to live here.
>its not stem or engineering but dont forget step and engineering schools cost 3x more than gnomon...
Regular schools that teach STEM aren't for profit. You can get shitloads of aid / grants or even full scholarships....
whats wrong with middle class?
isn't that were the average person wants to be these days?
according to glassdoor
engineers make on average 75k (55k-110k) (nationally)
3D artists make 67k (45k- 90k) (CA & NY this is probably the only places you will find a job anyway)
the gap isnt even that big and what if the guy doesn't want to bust his ass threw engineering school and wants to do 3D.
and even with gents and shit you're still looking at 100k+ debt
i think you've been talking to too many self thought struggle city "why wont anyone higher me" people online
i spotted my own retardation and fixed it before you you pointed it out. also i made a mistake in the numbers and fixed it.
in conclusion. going to school to learn 3D and other entertainment production is worth it, as long as its not a shady scam school. gnomon is probably the most credible school out there
why are you trying to be so edgy? Glhf, see you in 2 years when you'll absolutely be rolling in cash mate
>why are you trying to be so edgy
im only pointing out numbers... STEM and engineering arnt that amazing as you think they are. computer engineers especially make 5,000$ less than my previous number. putting them next to neck with 3d artists.
what do you rather do. computer engineering or make dank models
not to mention you can make a living with passive income by selling models on turbosquid
i have a guy added on skype who has 8000 models up and makes on average 10,000 a month.
To get good at 3D art you need to be doing 12-16 hours a day for three years and that is even to get a decent entry level job
OP should save his money and just learn from gumroad tutorials and maybe look at uartsy or 3D cgmasteracademy.
There was someone who posted his work here at it was garbage to be honest. He had been at Gnomon for one year. It not worth it to go to a for profit school
>There was someone who posted his work here at it was garbage to be honest. He had been at Gnomon for one year. It not worth it to go to a for profit school
I remember that. Oh my god.
> open resume
> education: gumroad tutorials
into the trash it goes.
just cuz that 1 dude had shitty portfolio after being in there for a year doesn't mean the school is shit tho
here are all the gnomon graduates on linkdin and what thy do. pretty impressive positions.
no. im not OP either, im also planning/want to go there someday so my natural instinct is to defend the school.
seeing people from that school in good jobs gives me hope f not getting fucked in the end. cuz 90% of art schools are a scam.
P.S. in my opinions.
If you're serious about the industry and being a 3d artists and you're looking at it as a long term career, i think its best to go to a credible school rather than watch tutorials for 5 years and struggle to get a job cuz no one trusts you that you can do the job.
everything i know right now is because im self thought, but i cant get any real feedback/guidance/ help to improve my work so its fucking hard to actually git industry level gud.
schools don't make your portfolio for you
besides in school you either rush through things or snail pace because of teacher/class factors
also there was never such a thing as 3D diploma, most of the schools that teach 3D are general "3D and animation" schools apart from gnomon where there is an actual preparation for industry level, and that's just 1 school and its not gonna shit out a good portfolio when you graduate
>no one trusts you that you can do the job
Honestly, all you can expect the entertainment industry to look at for entry level is your portfolio. If you know what you're doing, it's gonna show through your work, regardless of if you went to school or not.
the work that comes out of gnomon is very impressive stuff, its a bootcamp for the industry.
and almost every single person in the industry has some type of art education. you'll almost never find anyone that just picked it up on its own and become professional.
you are talking as if employers don't look at your models wire,UV's and textures. there are many ways to tell if you are good.
maybe the education thing is more about whats an acceptable thing to do when looking for work because artists compare traditional education to art education
acting is part of "the industry". Its hugely important. Someone has to put on the mo cap suit and act. This person could have a gig for years, like the gollum guy in planet of the apes, lotr, etc. Why was he chosen to begin with? Why him over another guy?
acting/= 3D work
lets drop this before it becomes a meme
being self thought, no one is gonna trust you to do anything important. i wold't
> hey pepe, we need you to model this car
> "oh idk how to model a car, never watched a tutorial"
> you wot m8?
Does gnomon have some magic bullet to make people good?
Implying people even read your resume for art and not just look at the pictures and give an art test.
On self learning.
All three Scott Eaton courses cost about $2,000 dollars if full enrollment. He is the best person in anatomy.
https://gumroad.com/grassetti Gresetti tutorial will cost you $20
Frank Tzang tutorial will cost you
All three of the above should give someone a good foundations for character art all they would need to do is put the practice in and learn texturing.
You can go to gnomon, but your likely to end up with a garbage portfolio. The few that end up with a good portfolio probably could have self taught.
I take it you've never worked in real production. All you make is static renders for archviz "clients" aka kitchen remodels.
>Does gnomon have some magic bullet to make people good?
does Harvard have magic bullets to make people good lawyers and doctors?
no they have people professors that TEACH YOU., and evaluate your work. why is this any different?
Why do I even come to /3/. Everyone is brain damaged.
How can you prove you are a good doctor or lawyer?
How can you prove you are better doctor or lawyer? You need to go to the best school. Hence, going to Harvard.
How can you prove you are the best 3D artist? You just need the best 3D portfolio.
There is also a big difference between Art and non Art.
I think it is. it has a .gov website and is eligible for government financial aid, the government wouldn't give you free money for college if the school wasn't accredited.
speaking of OP, he never got his question answered lmao.
>How can you prove you are a good doctor or lawyer?
if you win cases
>How can you prove you are the best 3D artist?
if you've made the most money from shipped titles
>You just need the best 3D portfolio.
you'll need more than still renders my friend.
>you'll need more than still renders my friend.
thats a hard concept for /3/ but i don't blame it, i bet less than 5% of the posters actually had a job, most of them are "self trained" artists hoping to some day get a job like that and are in denial
btw hows the self thought unemployment life?
i guarantee you no one on this site is employed due to 95% of the posts being "how do i -" questions... yet the people who probably never got payed a cent for any of their art giving people career advice.
its the equivalent of that joke of a plumber covered in shit telling a kid "you don't need to go to college, i never did, and i turned out fine"
Being "self taught" is BS too. If you have the natural ability to use 3D software, you should cultivate that talent by attending a community college. The outcome will be the same as gnomon if you are talented. Going to a better school does not automatically make you great.
someone whos in a community college right now i want to say no.
they don't teach shit. its basically high school 2.0
everything is intro level basic stuff that is laughable, the professors don't even know what they are doing. you got kids in the class that are just learned about the select tool in Photoshop. im so glad im graduating soon. these past 2 years gave me cancer. and i am considering attending gnomon.
>he thinks he needs to go to an art college to make it
if youre not making it right now then how the hell do you think anyone on here is going to take you seriously with your "you need a diploma to prove your worth" theory.
if you think highschool 2.0 is bad just wait until you get into a real college. the only thing that can determine a professional from an amateur is yourself. get that through your cuck mind
YOU have the ability to be a success. if you rely on others then you deserve to stay on /3/ shitting up the board with your projections.
inb4 your sad rebuttal, do you honestly think that people at gnomon we're taught by industry leading professionals when 3D just got big? no it was by talented self taught people.
>he thinks he gonna be taken seriously and get a job by putting "no experience" "no education" in his resume. that's why you're on /3/ too right and unemployed right?
please go look up any well known artist and see if they're self thought from youtube videos or actually have art training?
"but muh talent and passion" your talent isnt worth shit if you don't get real training.
that's why even the talented move writers, actors, directors went to schools, i mean its acting right, all you need is your talent. its funny because even famous actors still get acting coaches for certain roles. why is 3D any different?
i just did a bit of research to make sure im not crazy/wrong here and yea, all of the famous/talented artists that i look up to/respect went to school.
the only 1 that i so far found that is self thought is Grant Warwick. and most of us we'll never be on his level.
Glauco Longhi who's work i love took Dick Smith Advanced Makeup Course than spend another 3 something years as a training in some guys studio in Brazil until he moved to LA to become a 3D artist.
even fucking Michelangelo had to go to school..
"...He [Michelangelo] moved on to the sculpture school of Bertoldo di Giovanni, a student of Donatello"
school gives you deadlines and assignments, now if you are not motivated enough to do it on your own or have insecruities about if whenever its gonna work out or not you basically need school, you need a teacher to sit you down and tell you how many successful students been at his joint so you can get that confidence and that motivation to pay for school
cont. i know game artists that make their own assets and even sounds,programming by themselves and whenever i get the chance to ask them what they do they say its a hobby.
marketwise that person would be overqualified,even the other day i saw some guy that made a 3D mmo with gothic 3 level of graphics just with his programmer friend.
is this 1%? yes it is. but saying its impossible is bullshit
Maybe community college in the US is different from Canada? Here, college is like an vocational school that teaches you practical skills to use in the workplace of your choice. That's not to say it isn't piss easy if you apply minimal effort, but it's better (in my opinion) than university, where you are basically expected to teach yourself skills like 3D modeling or hand sketching via tutorials and readings while the profs teach you "theory". The point is that overall, you don't really need much more than the basics. Getting really good is a matter of practice and talent, with any software really. You need to get a feel for it and experiment a lot. No teacher is really capable of teaching you that.
why i want/need school is because i want an actual professional training and for someone to put me on the right track. there are a lot of things i still don't know and there are still a lot of things i need improvement on. again, i think getting a real training and a following a well thought out course plan is the best thing i can do. even if i self train myself for the next 4-5 years im probably not gonna get a job, most studios ask for 3-5 years of experience, industry training or even as far as shipped a AAA titled game. now a resume with no experience, no education pretty much holds no grounds.
Gnomon has a 97% placement rating. that means 97% of the graduates find a job within the first semester. which is 3-6 months.
not to mention they have contacts/connections with all the big named studios and probably can get you a job without you even applying.
I have a guy added on skype who got a job at blizzard as a environment artist a week after graduating because his professor works there
>the self training meme
if i watch a tutorial by alex alvarez i consider myself not being self taught. If i read a book by bjorne on c++ i consider myself not being self taught, either. If i read The Illusion or Animators Survival Guide I'm also not self taught.
to be totally fair everyone that posts here is unemployed because the 'industry' is run by autocuck and their meme-tier garbage software, blender master race can't catch a break.
being self taught is making something by yourself without looking online at tutorials / videos / books. For example I learned how to drive my brothers atv by driving it around his backyard when I was house sitting for him. No tuts. Thats self taught.
On your own is like in my example, learning to drive an atv. If you've actually bought learning material such as books or watched paid video training such as any video you'll get on cgp you've gone into the not-self-taught realm. Stop kidding yourself. For example I'm learning to program DX12 now by reading a book by Frank Luna . I dont claim to be self taught. He teaches me, through text so I dont have to physically travel to his location and quit my current job. Also so he doesn't have to repeat himself over and over for others who want to learn
Being autodidact means that you are someone who in the absence of leadership from a teacher or pressure from society to drag your sorry ass to school will seek to educate yourself on subjects.
It does not necessitate you to be the original inventor of all the ideas and concept you seek to understand and implement you silly asspie motherfucker you.
Who says I'm a native speaker?
Assuming by 'that word' you refer to 'autodidact' I can assure you tho that I've come across quite a few anglo speaking natives whom used that very term in conversations regarding education.
Not every American and Englishman out there is a fuckwit who even raises an eyebrow when faced with common academic terminology.
If you wanna avoid interfacing with foreigners affluent in your language being English speaking is just not gonna cut it.
I suggest you try becoming a Hindu, then shoot yourself in face and hope being reincarnated as Nepalese of some isolated mountain village or sumtin.
you're embarrassing yourself. I hear it all the time -
>"where did you learn that from?"
>"I learned it from youtube"
You watch a tutorial online, some (expert) went through the trouble of gathering their thoughts and filming themselves doing the action. Thats not teaching yourself or being self taught, thats "learning from youtube". I hear that question and answer almost every day now.
(This is an American English board btw)
>(This is an American English board btw)
It's a generic domain .org board with a wide international demographic my dear miss reaction image.jpg.
Besides all the words I've been using are quite f-word present in American English as far as I'm aware.
Any embarrassment on my part, excluding the fact I bother responding, exists solely within the framework of your, presumably but regrettably, average sized skull.
EFFLAM MERCIER LEARNING PATH
He's mainly a 2D artist, but he is motherfucking good. He's 20 and learn by himself.
http://efflam-mercier blogspot fr/2016/03/from-high-school-to-hollywood-in-25.html
http://efflam-mercier blogspot fr/2016/04/the-list-of-cool-stuff-for-learning.html
we have a .edu website now and it is becoming accredited. but the issue with that is many of the top artists wont be able to teach at gnomon since you need a bachelors to teach in a college. I like it how it is now and am glad i got in before the change, though they said i can come back after they get the degrees and take a class or two to graduate with the degree when they get it.
.edu website usually means the school is approved by the government, especially since they take financial aid. you really think the government would hand out free money for you to go to a non-accredited school?
16 hours a day (for a long time) is stupid. If you actually sustain that your health will go to shit and you'll burn out, if you're the average person. Working between 5-12 hours a day is far more reasonable. Improvement isn't some 1:1 function where just because you lose more sleep doing art you will get better faster. Although if you're really pushing on a project working crazy hours for a short period of time is fine.
Does anyone have it saved? I'm curious.
1. I think Gnomon is a solid school. My friend goes there and likes it.
2. Despite that, you're being an idiot. When you go to school (cause I think you will, and that's fine if you can afford it desu), you'll understand why most 3D people look down on schools so much. The people who do really well are usually people who would've done fine self-taught. But you will make connections and get some solid advice if its one of the few decent schools like Gnomon.
3. Asking questions is somehow a bad thing?
4. Plumbers do fine and can make more than some 3D artists. You sound like a naive kid who thinks working in 3D is something glamorous that raises your status.
It's wrong to point that out about actors since there are a decent amount who didn't go to college.
>please go look up any well known artist and see if they're self thought from youtube videos or actually have art training?
You probably picked the field that is most saturated with outfielders of any field there is.
Computer-anything is rich with basement dwelling type enthusiasts who may spent something in the order of three thousand hours annually getting where they are.
Counting heads around me we have like two guys that are classically trained out of eleven, and those two are not exactly top of the game.
I'd guesstimate that for every guy who went to art school to become an artist there are like twenty who came from the internet.
Probably because it is so easy to prove the actual extent of your skills in this field.
A piece of paper means nothing in this buiss unless it consist of stunning imagery with your name on it.
i never went to school for 3D but i wish i did and want to go.
self thought is nothing compared to going through a well thought out program, being thought by a professional, being able to ask questions, and get your work judged and given advice.
you'll accomplish a lot more in 2 years of school than 5 years of self training, not to mention contacts and connections you need to get a job.
The only way to get a job is to put in 12-16 hours a day for three years.
3D is really oversaturated. You need to have a quality portfolio of a senior artist to get a job. But most senior artist work 10 hours a day and get home and do another 4 hours.
A degree is a waste of paper. Idiots on here think a school has a magic bullet.
Idiot scum who want to be spoonfed don't deserve a job. You can't stay in school forever sometime you need to use your own brain and learn material yourself. Cant be spoonfed forever.
You don't need that much sleep to be honest. You need 6 hours at most, that would leave 2 free hours to do some exercise and you can cook.
Lets face it, a person who is doing 16 hours a day for three years will have 17,520 hours on 3D art.
5 hours for three years everyday will only get you a pathetic 5,475 hours. That isn't enough.
14 hours should be minimum a day.
>But most senior artist work 10 hours a day and get home and do another 4 hours.
wat. Once you've reached senior level you're at least 30-35 so we have kids and shit. You at most go to the gym after work since you'll have to be at work at 8:30 am, up at 6:15 at the latest, in bed by 11pm.
>Idiot scum who want to be spoonfed don't deserve a job.
Such hostility. Opinion discarded.
>You don't need that much sleep to be honest. You need 6 hours at most, that would leave 2 free hours to do some exercise and you can cook.
>14 hours should be minimum a day.
you are wrong.
>You don't need that much sleep to be honest. You need 6 hours at most
Source? Maybe if you're not the average person. But the general research supports seven to nine hours as being the best range. You might not be consciously aware of the effects.
>You need to have a quality portfolio of a senior artist to get a job
This literally isn't true, I know tons of people who didn't have kickass portfolios but got work out of school. Maybe if you want to work at a leading studio as a character artist or something, but you're implying just to get a job you need to be senior level, lol.
>14 hours should be minimum a day.
You think more hours automatically = better work?
People won't pay you much right after graduation. The best thing you can do is go from companies to companies to get profit faster. If you want to go in the industry, you'll probably have to move out and go where the industry is based which can be a hassle if you're crawling under a pile of debts... You can get a good education without paying that much.
Also, you will NEVER have the highest paying job after graduation. You gotta still work for it afterward.
A new dude at my workplace just moved from ILM in LA to Montreal because life is cheaper there and there's way more opportunities in the VFX industry. He's paid more here too! LA isn't end game nowadays. Most companies are actually leaving LA because it's too expensive to be localized there anymore.. And if you're afraid of the french canadian pleb that we are, Vancouver is another option that is less expensive to live at.
School only initiates you. You never stop learning. YouTube is your best friend when you need to quickly learn something. Sucess in this field is knowing your shit. "How" your taught is irrelevant.
>Idiot scum who want to be spoonfed don't deserve a job.
the stupidity has no bounds. so getting an education / professional training is being "spoonfed" and means you don't deserve a job?
but the retard that stayed home and learned half the material in 3x the amount of time is the hero, right?
I can tell, actually, i know you never went to school, i highly doubt if you even graduated high school and didnt just drop out to become a "gaym designer" but instead sit on /3/ all day and have a triggered attack when someone mention the word "school"
> Lets face it, a person who is doing 16 hours a day for three years will have 17,520 hours on 3D art.
people are not lifeless basement dwelling neck beards living of their mom to spend 16 hours a day and 5 years learning 3D. people have jobs, and a life.
a smart person would rather spend that 60-70k to go get a 2-3 year professional education, start working.
seeing as the average wage of a 3D artists in the gaming industry is 55k-75k you can pay that loan off in 2-3 years if you're smart, meanwhile its year 5 and the basement dweller is still "self teaching" 16 hours a day and has no education and no experience to even be considered for a job.
i got to talk to tehmeh, he was really against school and his band a merry followers preached the same shit he did. FZD is a scam, Robertson doesn't know what he's talking about, if you want to git gud then study old masters and paint non-stop all day. So why is schooling better than doing it on your own? Can't you get more done on your own?
>So why is schooling better than doing it on your own? Can't you get more done on your own?
because in a school you have professionals and a thought out curriculum and a plan to get you where you need to be and to actually get a job. not to mention the personal help/advice/critic you get from school.
meanwhile. the people try to self teach themselves 4/5 get no where because they start ass backwards and miss a lot of import steps techniques. as it was said in this thread before. even the renaissance masters went to school or got training from other artists for 5-6 years.
im willing bet $50 that everyone whos anti-school in this thread has ever had a job as a 3D artist or anything in that fashion. mostly because working professionals don't come to /3/
You don't need to go to a expensive school when there is so much good learning material.
You should just take online courses to learn. Here is a list of few
Scott Eaton courses on Anatomy
Uartsy in particular Steve Lord and Brett Brailey courses.
Lets face it, the internet makes it so you can learn from others. You don't need to go to a school to get top notch learning.
you still don't have anyone to judge your work, make sure its right or wrong, point out your mistakes, answer your questions, a lot more benefits you get from an actual learning environment. and im not even talking about the contacts and networking you need to get a job in this industry
but you do have examples of
besides if you want to be competitive you have to look at other peoples portfolio's and not just your teacher guidance, imagine as if you are competing against everyone and not just relying on some word of mouth nepotism to get you a job
>you still don't have anyone to judge your work, make sure its right or wrong,
Your work gets judged everyday with whether you can make a buck off it or not mate. There is only one judge and thats the dolla dolla billy
Thank you so much and fuck you so much for this.
Now I want to go through all of these sources and learn to do this at a decent (undergraduate) level.
The problem is that I had the same will to do shit like these, well, for: 2D animation, painting, 3D, audio engineering, graphic design, machine learning, AI, mobile applications, photography, writing, screenwriting, video editing, VFX, motion graphics.....
I'm like a fucking kid at 21 years old, thinking he can do it all. I would like to not exist so bad, it's been a long ass time and I still can't decide what to do with my future, matter of fact, it has only been getting worse. I need a serious help because I'm aware that reading a little about everything will get me nowhere, I'm not a second Leonardo da Vinci.
So thanks a lot for one more thing that sparked my interest. Well, at least I always keep my interests in creative fields... Another day filled with depression.
Hello darkness, my old friend.
I am 38 and i can do 2D animation, painting, 3D, graphic design, photography, choreography, video editing, VFX, motion graphics.....
Choose one as a profession, do the others as hobby. The main trick is to chase your curiosity and interest in creative fields and stick with it.
Move like a glacier, very slowly but you'll crush everything in your way.
It took me over 20 years to get where i am, but i 'll reach milestones i dreamed about 10 years ago.
If the amount of work depresses you, ignore the goals, remember you just follow your curiosity, just play and learn like there is nothing at stake.
lmao, according to /3/ all the best artists in the industry are nobody's.
Every time i name any top artists there is that 1 guy that says "he aint shit"
thats why he has a job and you're unemployed on /3/ right?
Lot of talent coming from Gnomon, and all of the major studios know of them and shop talent from their graduate pool. That said, at the end of the day all that matters is your portfolio. If you can find a comparable alternative that is cheaper, do that.
Some people struggle learning on their own and free tutorials have their fair share of bad information. So maybe find a middle ground, perhaps a cheaper route like Digital Tutors (the name has actually recently changed), Animation School, Rigging Dojo, etc.
Above all, remember there's no guarantee with anything. Best you can do is stay motivated and bust your ass because you're competing with some serious talent all over the world.
Good luck, man